Ulysses Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, Spellczech said: Funny - why does the British Museum get all the bad press? - I've seen extensive Egyptian collections in Turin, Paris, Munich and Berlin museums... I imagine it's because the person who created the meme is an English speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) Just now, Ulysses said: I imagine it's because the person who created the meme is an English speaker. I wasn't talking about the meme specifically...I was referring to the museum Edited February 13 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I wasn't talking about the meme specifically...I was referring to the museum I'd guess that anyone having a go at (for example) Paris would be more likely to do so in French, which might pass us by (it'd probably pass me by, at any rate). It could also be a cultural reflection of the international regard in which Britain is held as a country that has been responsible for so many independence holiday celebrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: I'd guess that anyone having a go at (for example) Paris would be more likely to do so in French, which might pass us by (it'd probably pass me by, at any rate). It could also be a cultural reflection of the international regard in which Britain is held as a country that has been responsible for so many independence holiday celebrations. You're still talking about the meme specifically... As for the other bit - The French, Spanish and Russian empires can claim loads too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_independence_days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 16 minutes ago, Spellczech said: The Ancient egyptians used pulleys, even though Archimedes is accredited with their invention. Pretty sure if you can imagine pulleys then the idea of greased rope to reduce traction is not beyond your engineers either... The top pieces of the temple at Baalbek are 20 metres long and 4m high and weigh 1000 tons each. And some of the stones are more than 10 times the size of the largest stones at Giza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: I didn’t suggest it was aliens man haha. It just seems unlikely to me labourers were this precise, I’ve worked with plenty 😂 I know you weren't mate 👍 but plenty do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, Tazio said: The top pieces of the temple at Baalbek are 20 metres long and 4m high and weigh 1000 tons each. And some of the stones are more than 10 times the size of the largest stones at Giza. If you've got enough time and enough men this sort of thing can be done, as these structures prove, bare in mind, there was no workers rights, Health and Safety Executive back then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tazio said: The top pieces of the temple at Baalbek are 20 metres long and 4m high and weigh 1000 tons each. And some of the stones are more than 10 times the size of the largest stones at Giza. yeah but with pulleys a single man can lift a car vertically. Enough ropes and both men and animals to do the grunt work and surely this weight is achievable? people underestimate the ancients building capabilities - it results in pseudo-science... Edited February 13 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 13 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: Even back then they were known the word over for getting shit done, on time and on budget, just look at the job they did with them Hanging Gardens and Machu Picchu was actually a brickie from Gadansk called Mikołaj Polaco, not a lot of people know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: yeah but with pulleys a single man can lift a car vertically. Enough ropes and both men and animals to do the grunt work and surely this weight is achievable? If you understand the use of double purchase pulleys and more you can move things much easier than with single purchase, I do it a lot at work. However I have structure above where I can rig pulleys to lift things. If you are topping off a building you have nothing higher than it to fix your lifting points to. The physics etc of it are understandable but the practicalities of the process are harder to work out. They obviously used a form of scaffolding but the sums of building a wooden scaffold to lift a 1000 ton piece of stone 20m are mindblowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 100% slaves and as many slaves, animals, pulleys as they needed. Incredible accomplishment, but…aliens🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 25 minutes ago, Tazio said: If you understand the use of double purchase pulleys and more you can move things much easier than with single purchase, I do it a lot at work. However I have structure above where I can rig pulleys to lift things. If you are topping off a building you have nothing higher than it to fix your lifting points to. The physics etc of it are understandable but the practicalities of the process are harder to work out. They obviously used a form of scaffolding but the sums of building a wooden scaffold to lift a 1000 ton piece of stone 20m are mindblowing. They could pivot at the base using a brace at the point of rotation and ropes attached at the "Top" but also control ropes at the rear and sides. They needn't have used the pulleys in the exact same way as we do now. Pulleys can be used to exert force in all directions. The ancients did all kinds of things that we would regard as far too labour intensive to even consider now - Caesar's circumvallation at Alesia, Titus's ramps at Jerusalem and Masada...Some of their technology has been lost entirely such as Greek Fire... Archimedes defensive machinery at Syracuse is disputed for the very reason that we cannot reimagine and recreate it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The only thing i can't get my head around was that most of these large structures were built around the same time all over the world how come as there were no travel between these sites apart from space travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Spellczech said: They could pivot at the base using a brace at the point of rotation and ropes attached at the "Top" but also control ropes at the rear and sides. They needn't have used the pulleys in the exact same way as we do now. Pulleys can be used to exert force in all directions. The ancients did all kinds of things that we would regard as far too labour intensive to even consider now - Caesar's circumvallation at Alesia, Titus's ramps at Jerusalem and Masada...Some of their technology has been lost entirely such as Greek Fire... Archimedes defensive machinery at Syracuse is disputed for the very reason that we cannot reimagine and recreate it... All true but the more you think about these things the more obstacles you come up against. Such as materials used for the hardware involved, the stresses involved on pulleys and the points they are rigged to as an example. I use hemp ropes as part of my work and a hemp rope that is rated at 100Kg is a 16mm diameter rope. So did they use hundreds of ropes or a few super thick ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said: The only thing i can't get my head around was that most of these large structures were built around the same time all over the world how come as there were no travel between these sites apart from space travel Until comparatively recently it used to be denied that the Vikings reached Canada, that the Polynesians reached S America.... Why have people always believed that the Gods of various mythologies were up high, either in the sky or on a mountain? To be nearer the Gods the pious kings and priests have always sought to build upwards...perhaps the original Earthshot prize was untold wealth for the man who could devise a method to lift stone A onto stone B? And if you won (or didn't win) the prize the best way to get rich is to travel and sell the technology to the next king or priest... Here's a question for the pseudo-scientists though: Why have they never asked what made all of Musk, Branson and Bezos start looking at space travel around the same time? Edited February 13 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairdy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 hours ago, Ulysses said: Well said ! 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tazio said: All true but the more you think about these things the more obstacles you come up against. Such as materials used for the hardware involved, the stresses involved on pulleys and the points they are rigged to as an example. I use hemp ropes as part of my work and a hemp rope that is rated at 100Kg is a 16mm diameter rope. So did they use hundreds of ropes or a few super thick ones? Is that not answered by the cables in the Forth Road Bridge. They would've foudn a balance of thickness and number of ropes as was necessary. I doubt they started using this technology on 20m 1000tonne blocks. They would've got more and more ambitious as they succeeded on smaller aims... As noted above, reducing traction goes hand in hand with pulley technology and it is known that the Egyptians had this too. Edited February 13 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 14 hours ago, Ulysses said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The Justified Ancients Of Mu Mu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The same people that helped build the pyramids in South America, Asia and in Antartica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said: The same people that helped build the pyramids in South America, Asia and in Antartica. The Polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Wimpey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Wimpey. Certainly not any of the builders of new houses I've bought, mostly because the workmanship is better and they're still standing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Daktari said: Certainly not any of the builders of new houses I've bought, mostly because the workmanship is better and they're still standing... Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: Until comparatively recently it used to be denied that the Vikings reached Canada, that the Polynesians reached S America.... Why have people always believed that the Gods of various mythologies were up high, either in the sky or on a mountain? To be nearer the Gods the pious kings and priests have always sought to build upwards...perhaps the original Earthshot prize was untold wealth for the man who could devise a method to lift stone A onto stone B? And if you won (or didn't win) the prize the best way to get rich is to travel and sell the technology to the next king or priest... Here's a question for the pseudo-scientists though: Why have they never asked what made all of Musk, Branson and Bezos start looking at space travel around the same time? Personal interest, available finance, seeing a future profit, one upmanship, technological advancement, all 3 are about 20 years apart in age and have the time to build the finance and connections at roughly the same time to be able to do something that scale, various things probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, Australis said: Sure I read an article saying they were no slaves at all and were very well treated fed and watered. Would love to visit them and the river nile one day. And with the best health care there was in Egypt at the time, many skeletons have been found in the workers villages with treated broken bones, sure there was a medical kit found in one of the tombs of the workers near the Giza plateau. Not only were they well fed they were fed a high protein meat diet and were paid in beer and grain according to records which exist. Doesn't sound like slaves to me, well fed, looked after and paid I think there would have been a combination of skilled craftsmen and the bulk being labourers brought in from all over Egypt spending an alotted time in the service of the Pharaoh and on an rotational basis. There is an inscription in a tomb of a foreman of a workgang which mentions that he was in charge of that gang of workers from a certain village who's turn it was to work on the Pyramids. I'm waiting until the new Egyptian museum fully opens before planning on going to the Giza plateau, Saqqara & Dahshur, would love to go back to Luxor and the Valley of the Kings etc again, it really is superb, if your into all that stuff, which I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: If you've got enough time and enough men this sort of thing can be done, as these structures prove, bare in mind, there was no workers rights, Health and Safety Executive back then! And a **** tonne of slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, il Duce McTarkin said: And a **** tonne of slaves. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Yep. This, 'the new consensus is it wisnae slaves' stuff, is a political position. Aye sound, finally give the Egyptians the credit that they deserve for getting the pyramids and that chucked up. It wasnae aliens after all, and it proves that brown folk could be just as smart as white Europeans after years of denying this fact and nicking their artefacts for our museums. But ffs, lets not kid ourselves on that it was a model example of 'considerate construction' where workers were all well looked after paid labour (and had a good representative union too, right). Every other ^*** was using slaves right left and centre, as was the done thing until the middle of last century, so we should find it highly unlikely that the Egyptians of antiquity had an almost historically unique fit of concience and social responsibility when embarking upon one of the largest construction projects of all time in the midst of endemic global slavery. "Got these 40 tonne blocks to shift, lads, lets not use all those Persian prisoners we brought back from the last pagger out East". Zahi Hawass and his mob will be happy with this state of denial, mind. It's not as if they've ever pushed for it. ^***s. Edited February 13 by il Duce McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 The step pyramids on Tenerife is worth a visit👍🏻 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramids_of_Güímar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 26 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: This, 'the new consensus is it wisnae slaves' stuff, is a political position. Aye sound, finally give the Egyptians the credit that they deserve for getting the pyramids and that chucked up. It wasnae aliens after all, and it proves that brown folk could be just as smart as white Europeans after years of denying this fact and nicking their artefacts for our museums. But ffs, lets not kid ourselves on that it was a model example of 'considerate construction' where workers were all well looked after paid labour (and had a good representative union too, right). Every other ^*** was using slaves right left and centre, as was the done thing until the middle of last century, so we should find it highly unlikely that the Egyptians of antiquity had an almost historically unique fit of concience and social responsibility when embarking upon one of the largest construction projects of all time in the midst of endemic global slavery. "Got these 40 tonne blocks to shift, lads, lets not use all those Persian prisoners we brought back from the last pagger out East". Zahi Hawass and his mob will be happy with this state of denial, mind. It's not as if they've ever pushed for it. ^***s. Correct on all counts Guv, correct on all counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 On 12/02/2024 at 17:08, Greedy Jambo said: Slaves are hard-working, but they're not skilled craftsmen. No clue about slaves 6000 years ago but enslaved people in the Americas were absolutely skilled craftsmen. There's a barn in the north end of the county I live in. It's 160 years old and the joinery in it is so good that despite being built with quite a bit of rough hewn lumber, is still straight and square and in excellent condition. The houses nearby that were originally slave cabins, while they're now part of a historic site, were lived in until the 1980s because they were so well built. All designed, overseen, and executed by enslaved craftsmen. Early modern era American slavery was very different in so many ways from prior forms but I can't see why slaves couldn't have been skilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, **** the SPFL said: The only thing i can't get my head around was that most of these large structures were built around the same time all over the world how come as there were no travel between these sites apart from space travel Eh? Giza pyramids built circa 4000 BCE. Central American pyramids, which are of a dramatically different design and function, built in the 600-1300 CE period. Nubian pyramids, a few hundred miles south of ancient Thebes, built 2500-300 BCE. If we built giant stone pyramids now, the ones in Central America and most of the ones in Nubia would be significantly closer in time to our brand new ones than the ones in Giza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 16 hours ago, Spellczech said: Funny - why does the British Museum get all the bad press? - I've seen extensive Egyptian collections in Turin, Paris, Munich and Berlin museums... The Louvre 100% gets it too. Dunno about the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: The Louvre 100% gets it too. Dunno about the others. For me, the star of The Louvre is the building itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: Eh? Giza pyramids built circa 4000 BCE. Central American pyramids, which are of a dramatically different design and function, built in the 600-1300 CE period. Nubian pyramids, a few hundred miles south of ancient Thebes, built 2500-300 BCE. If we built giant stone pyramids now, the ones in Central America and most of the ones in Nubia would be significantly closer in time to our brand new ones than the ones in Giza. That’s why I failed my history exam 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 10 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said: For me, the star of The Louvre is the building itself. Fully agreed. The bit that gets me though is imagining Louis XIV walking around in it and saying, "you know, the problem with this place is that it just isn't BIG enough . . ." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 18 hours ago, henrysmithsgloves said: The step pyramids on Tenerife is worth a visit👍🏻 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramids_of_Güímar Pfft. Should be renamed Trapezoids of Guimar. Spanish farmers having a laugh. These are proper pyramids 👇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 29 minutes ago, felix said: Pfft. Should be renamed Trapezoids of Guimar. Spanish farmers having a laugh. These are proper pyramids 👇 M8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 27 minutes ago, henrysmithsgloves said: M8? Aye. Taken before 2022 Cup final iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 20 minutes ago, felix said: Aye. Taken before 2022 Cup final iirc. It's amazing what they can do with an old pit bing😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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