Match ratings - Airdrie v Hearts

[Chimp]

10 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I mean in terms of contribution to today’s game. Honestly, if any other player had put in the performance that Tagawa did today, no one would be saying anything. They only are because it’s Tagawa. Likewise, if Tagawa missed the chance Forrest did when Shankland laid it off with the back heel, the miss would have its own thread. You all know this, so stop pretending otherwise.

 

Spot on.

[Pete Elliott]

Atkinson > Dexter imo. 

[AlimOzturk]

Should be banned in top flight football

matches. However lower league clubs..less money I get it. As long a they are to that standard you don’t have as much of an issue with it 

[spacerjoe]

13 hours ago, OTT said:

Gordon 8 - Very assured presence at the back

Dexter 6 - I thought he was pretty poor tbh. Tell me I'm wrong, but for their goal he was badly out of positon, causing Rowles to go over to cover which opened the space up for the goal.. 

Halkett 7 - He was looking very good until his injury, nice assist for Vargas too

Kingsley 7 - Very assured and dealt with things fine. 

Cochrane 8 - Nice runs down the wing. Would like to see him run with the ball a bit more. Sometimes feels like he's too quick to move it on when there is space he could run into

Beni 8 - Don't think he put a foot wrong. 

Hoff 8.5 - Very good performance, great goal and just generally a very mature performance from him

Grant 6 - I don't think much came off for him but he was very involved and didn't hide.

Forrest 6 - Worked hard, but felt like the quality wasn't there - how he didn't score that chance Shanks tee'd up for him was very disappointing. 

Shankland 9 - MOM

Vargas 7 - Nice to see him score, although a bit clumsy. Decision making still a bit lacking, but he didn't look out of place at all

 

Subs

Rowles 7 - Great to see him back

Tagawa 5 - Poor. I think there is a sense of urgency that he needs to show us something to save his career here. I don't think he's playing confidently or looking very happy at all. 

Tait 8 -  He's got a better range of passing than Beni, there I said it. Needs to bulk up a bit, but looking an extremely good young player. I think in a couple of years he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. 

Fraser 7 - Nice assist. Experience showed I think. 

Atkinson 7 - Likewise with Rowles, its good to see him back. Solid. 

 

Agree on Tait.

 

Also while Beni seems to get the plaudits for finding passes under pressure, Tait just seems to find himself if space more often.

 

That of course could just be the effect of Beni having to soak up all the other teams energy and then Tait coming on to expose it later in the game.

 

But still, he I feel like his overall movement is better. And wants to move forward as soon as he's released the ball.

[XB52]

There always has to be a boo boy on here, it's pathetic. 

[spacerjoe]

10 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Do you genuinely believe if Tagawa missed the chance Forrest had that there wouldn’t be a peep about it like has been the case for Forrest tonight? (Not that there should be anything for anyone mind you) And do you genuinely think if Tagawa’s game was played by Forrest that there would be as many people saying he was shite? You know the answer is no to that. Because he had an average game. Not a great game, but not a bad one either. People are wanting to say he played worse than he did, and that’s baffling to me.

Let's not also forgot that Forrest had hardly been setting the world alight for the first 14 months of his Hearts career, let alone 6. And he joined from just down the road. Has he even moved house?

 

I agree on Tagawa, he wasn't terrible. I think he also has some talent, but I'm honestly not sure if he's right for our system. Might just be a lack of confidence, or time to gel, but I'm not sure he's suited to being out wide.

[BackOfTheNet]

18 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Let's not also forgot that Forrest had hardly been setting the world alight for the first 14 months of his Hearts career, let alone 6. And he joined from just down the road. Has he even moved house?

 

I agree on Tagawa, he wasn't terrible. I think he also has some talent, but I'm honestly not sure if he's right for our system. Might just be a lack of confidence, or time to gel, but I'm not sure he's suited to being out wide.

Agreed on both points. But wait until the summer where folk will want rid, and even if Shankland stays they’ll demand another striker be bought / loaned of high quality. Despite any such player having to sit on the bench at most because our sole striker is also our captain and rarely doesn’t play 90 minutes. Tagawa needs game time, but isn’t getting what he needs because he plays in a position where our captain operates and is in the form of his life and the best form in the league of any player. And when he does play like yesterday it’s out of position.

 

As for Forrest, he had his moments in the earlier days, but yes folk wanted him punted in the summer. Folk wanted Nieuwenhof punted in January. Folk wrote off Vargas not long before that. Folk wrote off Sibbick, Oda before they came good last season (only to write them off again). Hell, Simms was written off as having a touch of an elephant after his first few games. Some folk just can’t help themselves. I’d (sort of) understand the younger ones being knee jerk since most of their raised on technology and social media addled brains mean they have no concept of patience, but it’s also the old shout at clouds guys too. Infuriating.

Edited February 12 by BackOfTheNet

[AlimOzturk]

Dexter clearly talented but at his age inconsistency is to be expected. He has started well here 

 

Atkinson starts ahead of him for me however good to have the young lad here. 

[HopeDiouf]

40 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Tagawa needs game time, but isn’t getting what he needs because he plays in a position where our captain operates and is in the form of his life and the best form in the league of any player. And when he does play like yesterday it’s out of position.

He's not getting much game time cause he's done nowt with the game time he's had.  He'll not get much going forward either, unless he does something when he gets a chance (e.g. yesterday, when he once again did nowt).

[tiger Rudi]

17 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Agreed on both points. But wait until the summer where folk will want rid, and even if Shankland stays they’ll demand another striker be bought / loaned of high quality. Despite any such player having to sit on the bench at most because our sole striker is also our captain and rarely doesn’t play 90 minutes. Tagawa needs game time, but isn’t getting what he needs because he plays in a position where our captain operates and is in the form of his life and the best form in the league of any player. And when he does play like yesterday it’s out of position.

 

As for Forrest, he had his moments in the earlier days, but yes folk wanted him punted in the summer. Folk wanted Nieuwenhof punted in January. Folk wrote off Vargas not long before that. Folk wrote off Sibbick, Oda before they came good last season (only to write them off again). Hell, Simms was written off as having a touch of an elephant after his first few games. Some folk just can’t help themselves. I’d (sort of) understand the younger ones being knee jerk since most of their raised on technology and social media addled brains mean they have no concept of patience, but it’s also the old shout at clouds guys too. Infuriating.

Hey I take your point about Tagawa. I thought he worked back to good effect yesterday. I saw some things in his play that would suggest he has more to offer. But, and it's a big but, you are surely not suggesting we don't look for a better option in the summer in the hope Tagawa does find his feet? Yes there's a long way to go, but he simply needs to do a hell of a lot more from here on in. I understand everything you say about Shanks and Tagawa not getting a consistent run in his favoured position, but if that's all he can do, then we need to find a more adaptable player that can fill a variety of roles in the forward areas. That player will be able to push for a more regular starting place. 

Tagawa has until the end of the season to do something that warrants the wages and deal he is currently on. If Shankland leaves, then who knows, Tagawa may step up to be our main striker. If Shanks stays, even Kirk would surely be a better option to have from the bench, than a high earning luxury who hasn't (up till now) been able to make much of an impact.

Signing a player more suited to partnering Shanks is what I'd prefer if Tagawa is moved on. 

[spacerjoe]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Agreed on both points. But wait until the summer where folk will want rid, and even if Shankland stays they’ll demand another striker be bought / loaned of high quality. Despite any such player having to sit on the bench at most because our sole striker is also our captain and rarely doesn’t play 90 minutes. Tagawa needs game time, but isn’t getting what he needs because he plays in a position where our captain operates and is in the form of his life and the best form in the league of any player. And when he does play like yesterday it’s out of position.

 

As for Forrest, he had his moments in the earlier days, but yes folk wanted him punted in the summer. Folk wanted Nieuwenhof punted in January. Folk wrote off Vargas not long before that. Folk wrote off Sibbick, Oda before they came good last season (only to write them off again). Hell, Simms was written off as having a touch of an elephant after his first few games. Some folk just can’t help themselves. I’d (sort of) understand the younger ones being knee jerk since most of their raised on technology and social media addled brains mean they have no concept of patience, but it’s also the old shout at clouds guys too. Infuriating.

For sure.

 

In fact, I think the only game where he actually replaced Shankland on around the hour mark, was the game he scored.

 

 

[spacerjoe]

24 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Hey I take your point about Tagawa. I thought he worked back to good effect yesterday. I saw some things in his play that would suggest he has more to offer. But, and it's a big but, you are surely not suggesting we don't look for a better option in the summer in the hope Tagawa does find his feet? Yes there's a long way to go, but he simply needs to do a hell of a lot more from here on in. I understand everything you say about Shanks and Tagawa not getting a consistent run in his favoured position, but if that's all he can do, then we need to find a more adaptable player that can fill a variety of roles in the forward areas. That player will be able to push for a more regular starting place. 

Tagawa has until the end of the season to do something that warrants the wages and deal he is currently on. If Shankland leaves, then who knows, Tagawa may step up to be our main striker. If Shanks stays, even Kirk would surely be a better option to have from the bench, than a high earning luxury who hasn't (up till now) been able to make much of an impact.

Signing a player more suited to partnering Shanks is what I'd prefer if Tagawa is moved on. 

 

I think the point is that BofN was making though is that Shankland plays the full 90 most games. Tagawa hasn't had any opportunity really to prove himself as Shankland's replacement as he never gets to play in his position.

 

So, yeah, you could bring another guy in (and if Shankland left, we would obvs do it anyway - maybe two!), but unless the very worst case scenario happens and Shankland gets injured, we're not ever going to see Tagawa with a run of games as the central forward.

 

[BackOfTheNet]

32 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

He's not getting much game time cause he's done nowt with the game time he's had.  He'll not get much going forward either, unless he does something when he gets a chance (e.g. yesterday, when he once again did nowt).

Heard it all before about players that fans now rave about. I’m not writing off a player that has shown things in his 514 minutes he’s played (equivalent of 5.7 games), including an impact against Rosenborg that lead to our winner, a goal against Partick and a few close ones against others. His movement is excellent too when he’s up front, although he seemed more restricted in that yesterday.

Edited February 12 by BackOfTheNet

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

Heard it all before about players that fans now rave about. I’m not writing off a player that has shown things in his 514 minutes he’s played (equivalent of 5.7 games), including an impact against Rosenborg that lead our winner, a goal against Patrick and a few close ones against others. His movement is excellent too when he’s up front, although he seemed more restricted in that yesterday.

Bottom line is Tagawa got another chance yesterday, and he didn't take it.  He did nothing to show the manager he deserves to be in the team.  

[BackOfTheNet]

33 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Hey I take your point about Tagawa. I thought he worked back to good effect yesterday. I saw some things in his play that would suggest he has more to offer. But, and it's a big but, you are surely not suggesting we don't look for a better option in the summer in the hope Tagawa does find his feet? Yes there's a long way to go, but he simply needs to do a hell of a lot more from here on in. I understand everything you say about Shanks and Tagawa not getting a consistent run in his favoured position, but if that's all he can do, then we need to find a more adaptable player that can fill a variety of roles in the forward areas. That player will be able to push for a more regular starting place. 

Tagawa has until the end of the season to do something that warrants the wages and deal he is currently on. If Shankland leaves, then who knows, Tagawa may step up to be our main striker. If Shanks stays, even Kirk would surely be a better option to have from the bench, than a high earning luxury who hasn't (up till now) been able to make much of an impact.

Signing a player more suited to partnering Shanks is what I'd prefer if Tagawa is moved on. 

I’m not suggesting Tagawa will be here come next season. He’s 25 with goals against Porto and Sporting under his belt, he’s going to want to get game time so may leave off his own accord, or the club may decide he’s surplus. What I’m suggesting is that if Shankland stays and stays fit, no one is getting game time unless he’s rested or suspended. So I don’t think well established players are going to come in and sit on the bench.
 

Whether it’s Tagawa, Wilson or as you suggest Kirk, someone will need to be on hand, and with that position being occupied by our star player and captain, I can’t see an out and out striker coming in to sit on the bench. Point being, fans will want rid but they’ll want him replaced with better. Better isn’t going to come in and sit on the bench.

[RustyRightPeg]

15 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Tagaway yet? - 1 

 

Boring. 

[BackOfTheNet]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Bottom line is Tagawa got another chance yesterday, and he didn't take it.  He did nothing to show the manager he deserves to be in the team.  

He got a chance on the right wing in a game where the result was pretty much already determined. And he did okay. Nothing special, but he wasn’t poor either, which some suggest he was. He done nothing to suggest Shankland should be dropped, no. But that’s kinda difficult to do from RW and with Shankland playing the way he is.

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

He got a chance on the right wing in a game where the result was pretty much already determined. And he did okay. Nothing special, but he wasn’t poor either, which some suggest he was. He done nothing to suggest Shankland should be dropped, no. But that’s kinda difficult to do from RW and with Shankland playing the way he is.

He did nothing to earn himself another chance is my point.  Vargas is an example of the opposite, where he's show what he can do and forced his way in to the starting 11.  Tagawa did NOTHING to force his way in yesterday, and tbh, hasn't done anything to force his way in at any point so far.

[tiger Rudi]

2 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I’m not suggesting Tagawa will be here come next season. He’s 25 with goals against Porto and Sporting under his belt, he’s going to want to get game time so may leave off his own accord, or the club may decide he’s surplus. What I’m suggesting is that if Shankland stays and stays fit, no one is getting game time unless he’s rested or suspended. So I don’t think well established players are going to come in and sit on the bench.
 

Whether it’s Tagawa, Wilson or as you suggest Kirk, someone will need to be on hand, and with that position being occupied by our star player and captain, I can’t see an out and out striker coming in to sit on the bench. Point being, fans will want rid but they’ll want him replaced with better. Better isn’t going to come in and sit on the bench.

Fair points. I want him replaced with someone more suited to partnering Shanks rather than a direct replacement. I get what you're saying, who would want to shift Shanks for a game, it's not happening is it?

Vargas, even Oda can play through the middle. In Vargas I really believe we have a player that could develop into something special. We have young players that can contribute. So in my view we don't need Tagawa if Shanks stays. 

Another Gino type would be ideal, a player that can play wide or through the middle and can push for a place other than just Shanklands is what's needed. Dare I say it, an upgrade on Oda? Tin hat on saying that I know. 

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

He did nothing to earn himself another chance is my point.  Vargas is an example of the opposite, where he's show what he can do and forced his way in to the starting 11.  Tagawa did NOTHING to force his way in yesterday, and tbh, hasn't done anything to force his way in at any point so far.

If you choose to see it that way, then fine. My point is, even if he came on for Shankland yesterday and scored a brace, would one fan (just one!) call for him to start instead of Shankland against Motherwell? No, of course not.  He’s between a rock and a hard place.

 

For me though he did show yesterday what he can offer the team, in what he can offer tracking back, what he can offer in terms of possession play and he made at least two runs that could have resulted in goals for him - one Shankland was offside and over hit the cross anyway, the second being Shankland’s chip which could have easily been laid off for a tap in - not that I think Shankland should have passed it, but Tagawa made the run that made that an option. So if he’s getting into the right positions, that’s doing something right for me.

[Robbo-Jambo]

13 hours ago, Jamb04life said:

Agree on the Tagawa front; I just don’t see what he brings.. 

 

I really hope he proves me and others wrong but suspect he’ll be sold/loaned out in the summer. If we’re needing a goal, would Naisy even put him on? Can’t remember the last league game he played 

 

Anyway, Hoff MOTM for me. Also thought Gordon commanded his box very well. Off day for Dexter and Shanks did what he always does  

 

 

The guy was head hunted by us but would love to know what the hell they saw in him.

 

He offers absolutely nothing and will be away by the end of the season imo ..

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

If you choose to see it that way, then fine. My point is, even if he came on for Shankland yesterday and scored a brace, would one fan (just one!) call for him to start instead of Shankland against Motherwell? No, of course not.  He’s between a rock and a hard place.

 

For me though he did show yesterday what he can offer the team, in what he can offer tracking back, what he can offer in terms of possession play and he made at least two runs that could have resulted in goals for him - one Shankland was offside and over hit the cross anyway, the second being Shankland’s chip which could have easily been laid off for a tap in - not that I think Shankland should have passed it, but Tagawa made the run that made that an option. So if he’s getting into the right positions, that’s doing something right for me.

It's not about starting ahead of Shankland.  Fairly obvious nobody is shifting Shankland out that team if fit. 

But we have 2 other attacking roles in the team, either wide or sometimes off Shankland, and if e.g. he'd scored yesterday, he'd earn another shot to see what he can do.  Instead, he plodded about, did make a couple of tackles, played it fairly safe, but basically didn't show anything special to encourage the manager to give him more chances.

[BackOfTheNet]

2 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Fair points. I want him replaced with someone more suited to partnering Shanks rather than a direct replacement. I get what you're saying, who would want to shift Shanks for a game, it's not happening is it?

Vargas, even Oda can play through the middle. In Vargas I really believe we have a player that could develop into something special. We have young players that can contribute. So in my view we don't need Tagawa if Shanks stays. 

Another Gino type would be ideal, a player that can play wide or through the middle and can push for a place other than just Shanklands is what's needed. Dare I say it, an upgrade on Oda? Tin hat on saying that I know. 

Oda and Vargas are young enough (and quick enough) to be refined for that role I feel. As for Tagawa not needing replaced, I’d tend to agree. I think he could be a proper player given time, but I also see he’s not going to get that time (and certainly not patience by the fan base) so if he moved on so be it. But I agree we needn’t replace him, but the original point is many will want an extra striker, and they’d moan we hadn’t got someone like Miovski or something despite anyone coming in would be playing backup.

[BackOfTheNet]

2 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

It's not about starting ahead of Shankland.  Fairly obvious nobody is shifting Shankland out that team if fit. 

But we have 2 other attacking roles in the team, either wide or sometimes off Shankland, and if e.g. he'd scored yesterday, he'd earn another shot to see what he can do.  Instead, he plodded about, did make a couple of tackles, played it fairly safe, but basically didn't show anything special to encourage the manager to give him more chances.

If Shankland’s run is onside and he puts in a better cross, and/or if he chose to lay off his second Tagawa could have had a brace. It’s not all or nothing, there are grey areas.

Edited February 12 by BackOfTheNet

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

If Shankland’s run is onside and if he close to lay off his second Tagawa could have had a brace. It’s not all or nothing, there are grey areas.

The point is, he needs to make it happen.  Coming off the bench and doing not very much ain't gonna get him in the team.  Yesterday was another opportunity not taken.

Edited February 12 by HopeDiouf

[Berrassobad]

Best ever run in a long time with shite players - smashin

[BackOfTheNet]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

The point is, he needs to make it happen.  Coming off the bench and doing not very much ain't gonna get him in the team.  Yesterday was another opportunity not taken.

In your eyes. And others, I know. But I saw things that I was happy enough with. I’m not sure what exactly you wanted him to do at 3-1 up with the game already won coming on at half time in not his best position. But he did alright. He did what the team needed him to do, no more, no less. Doesn’t warrant him a start, but also doesn’t warrant him the crap he’s getting from fans.

[Cruyff]

Surely our support has learnt by now that some players take longer than others to find their feet.

 

I'm not giving up hope on Tagawa.  Can't say I've been impressed but I hold out hope he can turn things around. 

 

But if it doesn't work out we could use him as part of a deal to sign another Japanese player. 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, BackOfTheNet said:

In your eyes. And others, I know. But I saw things that I was happy enough with. I’m not sure what exactly you wanted him to do at 3-1 up with the game already won coming on at half time in not his best position. But he did alright. He did what the team needed him to do, no more, no less. Doesn’t warrant him a start, but also doesn’t warrant him the crap he’s getting from fans.

#1 thing I'd like is him to do is show some desire, get involved in the game and show us what he has to offer.  

[Dallas Green]

Starting 11

Gordon (7) - Good outing and commands his area so well. Can't fault him for goal.
Dexter (6) - First half wasn't the greatest but settled when we were in control.
Halkett (5) - Great pass for the Vargas goal but my word he is quite shaky at the back.
Kingsley (7) - Played out of position (RCB) when we lost goal so won't be too harsh.
Cochrane (8) - Excellent game, incredible engine and another assist.
Beni (7) - Played well, some good touches and passes.
Hof (8) - Another great game and is growing game by game, took his goal very well.
Vargas (7) - His usual self, chases everything and got himself a goal.
Grant (6) - Was okay, some good passes but was expecting more.
Forrest (8) - Took on his men well, probably should have scored. Runs after everything.
Shankland (9) - The main man, two great goals and a MOM performance. 

 

Subs

Atkinson (6) - Came in and did well, think he might start over Dexter going forward.
Rowles (6) - Solid, good to have him back.
Tait (6) - Shows for the ball and creates good space for himself, was very forward thinking.
Fraser (6) - Showing some promise, had a good assist.

Tagawa (5) - Solid for the time on the park, tracked back and worked for the team.

My thoughts on the players. Halkett does need game time and this game (in terms of opponent) was a good choice. He is looking quite shaky and has had a few wayward passes (Dundee and this game spring to mind). A fit Halkett is a good player, I just hope this injury isnt too severe. Gordon needs to start going forward. He wasn't tested too much but his command of the area is great and he will rush out to help his defence - a thing Clarke just will not do. I think Kent and Rowles will be our CB pairing in a 4 with Cochrane and Atkinson either side. Hof is really coming onto a game and Beni is getting back to his old self, it's great to see. Shankland, Vargas and Forrest are the nailed on starters in attack. Grant has had some good games but it really is a flip of the coin of whether it's him or Fraser who plays in that role going forward. Tait - Wow, what a gem we could have in him.

[4marsbars]

7 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

I don't want to be overly harsh but I think people are being lenient on Lembikisa's performance. He was spraying passes all over the park today. He got sucked way out of position in the run up to their goal which required Rowles to come all the way out to the touchline to cover. Kingsley then shifted to watch the near post and we had no one to contest the header at the back post. If Dexter's in position on that one Rowles can sink back to the near post and Kingsley can watch the back.

 

4/10 for me. I like him and he's got buckets of potential but right now Atkinson is a better all-around footballer. If Lembikisa were our player I'd be all for letting him learn on the job but I can see why Rotherham fans got tired of him.

 

Not sure.

 

It's hard to tell from TV picture alone, but I got the impression that Naismith had set up the team in a way that would leave some gaps at the back, because he was confident that we would outscore Airdrie.

 

As ever, Naismith got it right.

 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

30 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

#1 thing I'd like is him to do is show some desire, get involved in the game and show us what he has to offer.  

Like the desire he showed to win the ball back when tracking back? I think you’re seeing what you want to see with this one. He may not run around like a headless chicken or show anger or chest thumps, but that doesn’t mean he’s not being effective or showing desire.

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Like the desire he showed to win the ball back when tracking back? I think you’re seeing what you want to see with this one. He may not run around like a headless chicken or show anger or chest thumps, but that doesn’t mean he’s not being effective or showing desire.

already mentioned the 2 tackles he put in.  That was the one positive from his performance yesterday for me.  And tbh, we shouldn't really be having to congratulate any player for putting a tackle in.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

already mentioned the 2 tackles he put in.  That was the one positive from his performance yesterday for me.  And tbh, we shouldn't really be having to congratulate any player for putting a tackle in.

 

Those bits were good, there was another bit though when Shankland probably should have played him in and we lost the ball. It was Shankland who then chased back rather than Tagawa despite only being on 10/15 mins.

 

I love a foreign player, I always hope we've found a gem and tend to give them a lot more leeway. I thought Tagawa was really poor last night both in attitude and ability.

 

Really hope he comes good and he definitely needs more game time but last night wasn't what I hoped to see from him when getting a decent run out.

[busbyfth]

49 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

In your eyes. And others, I know. But I saw things that I was happy enough with. I’m not sure what exactly you wanted him to do at 3-1 up with the game already won coming on at half time in not his best position. But he did alright. He did what the team needed him to do, no more, no less. Doesn’t warrant him a start, but also doesn’t warrant him the crap he’s getting from fans.

and folk go on about him having played x minutes equal to x games,.,...but small bit part appearances are no where near the same as playing/starting full matches for gaining confidence.Trouble is we have over stocked players of his type - again. (mind you better too many than a dearth) Vargas has had a better run in the team re game time and starts and is starting to come on leaps and bounds 

[busbyfth]

29 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

Not sure.

 

It's hard to tell from TV picture alone, but I got the impression that Naismith had set up the team in a way that would leave some gaps at the back, because he was confident that we would outscore Airdrie.

 

As ever, Naismith got it right.

 

 

didnt help SNs team set up much that in the first half our main back three were all sloppy. Giving the ball away a number of times. Like their concentration was fine tuned. SN sorted that at half time

[Bull's-eye]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

There always has to be a boo boy on here, it's pathetic. 

 

If it was merited it would be fair enough imo.

 

It generally just shows a total lack of football intellect and highlights the goons that don't actually watch or really have zero idea what their watching.

 

As an obvious example, there was a reason the Hoff played so well yesterday, the space he had at times was incredible, thats because the players around him put in a cracking shift and run their midfield ragged, all obvious to anyone thats played football.

 

Easy to criticise the player that doesn't look quite as busy, its the JKB way.

[Tazio]

Young full back from big EPL club on loan, great going forward but not the best going defensively. Big future in the game though and will be worth millions to someone. 
A bit like Demitri Mitchell. 
 

[BackOfTheNet]

2 hours ago, busbyfth said:

and folk go on about him having played x minutes equal to x games,.,...but small bit part appearances are no where near the same as playing/starting full matches for gaining confidence.Trouble is we have over stocked players of his type - again. (mind you better too many than a dearth) Vargas has had a better run in the team re game time and starts and is starting to come on leaps and bounds 

I think recruiting him on paper was a good idea in the sense of it being a Japanese internationalist who had played in Portugal’s top league and could help Oda acclimatise better, and if we needed depth in that position we have it. The issue is to play him in his natural position we have to either drop the best player in the league or move the best player in the league to a deeper role. We did that once this season (and Tagawa had a chance his movement created but finish let him down - a finish that may have been more clinical with regular game time).

 

I’m still hoping he’ll get his chance (a proper one) and takes it. Think we’d have to tactically tweak or retrain his position at the moment though.

[HopeDiouf]

6 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think recruiting him on paper was a good idea in the sense of it being a Japanese internationalist who had played in Portugal’s top league and could help Oda acclimatise better, and if we needed depth in that position we have it. The issue is to play him in his natural position we have to either drop the best player in the league or move the best player in the league to a deeper role. We did that once this season (and Tagawa had a chance his movement created but finish let him down - a finish that may have been more clinical with regular game time).

 

I’m still hoping he’ll get his chance (a proper one) and takes it. Think we’d have to tactically tweak or retrain his position at the moment though.

Came on up top v St Johnstone.  Started up top v Killie subbed off after 70.  Came on v Partick for 30 minutes and scored.  Came on v Dundee up top.  Came on up top at half time v Motherwell.  Started up top alongside Shanks v Rangers.

So it's not true he's only had one chance in his natural position.

[busbyfth]

24 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think recruiting him on paper was a good idea in the sense of it being a Japanese internationalist who had played in Portugal’s top league and could help Oda acclimatise better, and if we needed depth in that position we have it. The issue is to play him in his natural position we have to either drop the best player in the league or move the best player in the league to a deeper role. We did that once this season (and Tagawa had a chance his movement created but finish let him down - a finish that may have been more clinical with regular game time).

 

I’m still hoping he’ll get his chance (a proper one) and takes it. Think we’d have to tactically tweak or retrain his position at the moment though.

Sounds sensible

[boag1874]

3 hours ago, HopeDiouf said:

#1 thing I'd like is him to do is show some desire, get involved in the game and show us what he has to offer.  

He did show desire and get involved though - he tracked back, tackled, made good runs into space, he just didn’t have any real chances on goal but he did get into the areas he should be in. If he keeps doing that the chances will come.

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, boag1874 said:

He did show desire and get involved though - he tracked back, tackled, made good runs into space, he just didn’t have any real chances on goal but he did get into the areas he should be in. If he keeps doing that the chances will come.

who do you think contributed more yesterday?  Vargas or Tagawa?  Who's gonna start the next game based on their contribution?  If Tagawa wants to play more, he'll need to do something when he gets a chance.

[boag1874]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

who do you think contributed more yesterday?  Vargas or Tagawa?  Who's gonna start the next game based on their contribution?  If Tagawa wants to play more, he'll need to do something when he gets a chance.

Again though theres shades of grey here it doesn’t just have to be black & white. Vargas should start 100% he’s developing into a top quality player, it’s more natural a position for him than it is for Tagawa out on the right too. I’d say that front 3 of Forrest, Shanks, Vargas is how we should approach every game personally. That doesn’t mean just writing Tagawa off though.
 

What Tagawa needs is a run of appearances off the bench like yesterday to help him find his footing & gel with his teammates. Vargas needed that too, and looks all the better for it. Tagawa really hasn’t had that as of yet, he’s barely even kicked a ball. Maybe he’s a shite trainer and that’s not helping his cause but for me unless he gets consistent game time he won’t ever get up to speed.

 

[HopeDiouf]

2 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Again though theres shades of grey here it doesn’t just have to be black & white. Vargas should start 100% he’s developing into a top quality player, it’s more natural a position for him than it is for Tagawa out on the right too. I’d say that front 3 of Forrest, Shanks, Vargas is how we should approach every game personally. That doesn’t mean just writing Tagawa off though.
 

What Tagawa needs is a run of appearances off the bench like yesterday to help him find his footing & gel with his teammates. Vargas needed that too, and looks all the better for it. Tagawa really hasn’t had that as of yet, he’s barely even kicked a ball. Maybe he’s a shite trainer and that’s not helping his cause but for me unless he gets consistent game time he won’t ever get up to speed.

 

Agree with most of that.  But main point i'd say is that Vargas didn't get gifted his starts.  He earned them by doing well when given chances. 

Thats the bit that Tagawa has failed to do. When he's played, he's done nowt to say "deserves another chance, want to see some more of that".

It's a bit chicken and egg, but he won't get a run unless he comes on and actually does something.  Coming on and going through the motions and doing ok will not get him that next chance.  Coming on and doing well, creating a chance, scoring a goal, beating a man, playing a nice pass - thats the sort of thing that would earn him his next chance.

Coming on and standing on the right wing passing it backwards to Atkinson won't earn him that next chance.  I doubt we'll see him back on the pitch again till next time we are out of sight in a game.

[JAYEL]

9 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Again though theres shades of grey here it doesn’t just have to be black & white. Vargas should start 100% he’s developing into a top quality player, it’s more natural a position for him than it is for Tagawa out on the right too. I’d say that front 3 of Forrest, Shanks, Vargas is how we should approach every game personally. That doesn’t mean just writing Tagawa off though.
 

What Tagawa needs is a run of appearances off the bench like yesterday to help him find his footing & gel with his teammates. Vargas needed that too, and looks all the better for it. Tagawa really hasn’t had that as of yet, he’s barely even kicked a ball. Maybe he’s a shite trainer and that’s not helping his cause but for me unless he gets consistent game time he won’t ever get up to speed.

 

This is where we miss Reserve team football 

 

 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, JAYEL said:

This is where we miss Reserve team football 

 

 

agreed

[JimmyCant]

17 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I mean in terms of contribution to today’s game. Honestly, if any other player had put in the performance that Tagawa did today, no one would be saying anything. They only are because it’s Tagawa. Likewise, if Tagawa missed the chance Forrest did when Shankland laid it off with the back heel, the miss would have its own thread. You all know this, so stop pretending otherwise.

And here’s the difference. Forrest has a track record (especially recently) of making telling contributions so if his level drops a wee bit and he’s not so involved he’s still in credit.

 

I thought Forrest was a 6. He’s been a 7 or 8 recently. I thought Tagawa was shite again. 4 at best. There is still time for him but he looks lightweight and lacking in confidence and possibly just one of those who just can’t play football in this country but would be okay elsewhere.

 

Look at Nieuwenhof. There’s a player who has showed how you can go from 4’s to 8’s. Would love to see Tagawa do the same but he’s not giving any signs

[Firefox]

36 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

who do you think contributed more yesterday?  Vargas or Tagawa?  Who's gonna start the next game based on their contribution?  If Tagawa wants to play more, he'll need to do something when he gets a chance.

Difficult for the guy to shine when he's played out wide. Tagawa is a striker and he's unlikely to shine when he's brought on with Shankland still on the park. When we're 3 or more goals up, that's the time to take Shankland off and play Tagawa as a striker to see what he can do. It also prevents the chance of Shankland taking a knock. 

[Chillidigits]

12 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

I don't want to be overly harsh but I think people are being lenient on Lembikisa's performance. He was spraying passes all over the park today. He got sucked way out of position in the run up to their goal which required Rowles to come all the way out to the touchline to cover. Kingsley then shifted to watch the near post and we had no one to contest the header at the back post. If Dexter's in position on that one Rowles can sink back to the near post and Kingsley can watch the back.

 

4/10 for me. I like him and he's got buckets of potential but right now Atkinson is a better all-around footballer. If Lembikisa were our player I'd be all for letting him learn on the job but I can see why Rotherham fans got tired of him.

Wouldn't mind seeing how it looks with Nat coming in and Lembo further up the park.