Boozyuzi Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Just for comparison with similar countries.. Portugal Liga - 18 teams, 34 games. Relegation play off for 3rd bottom Belgian Pro League - 16 teams with Europa league play off for 2nd to 6th in initial league. Also relgation play offs for bottom 4 Dutch Eredivisie - 18 teams with Conference Play offs for 5th to 8th in intial league. Bottom 2 relegated, play off for 3rd bottom Danish Superliga - 12 teams, play each other twice then split into top 6 play offs + bottom 6 playoffs Norway Elite league - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Sweden Allsvenskan - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Surely we can try something different... my choice would be a 16 team league + make everyone play group stage of the League Cup (90 mins + penalties if required) plus the Scottish Cup (90mins + Extra Time + penalities if required) No plastic pitches BTW - this winter break... what's going to happen next year when there are CHampions League/ Europa games in January ?? Edit - I've had a better idea 16 team league + new top Divison Super Cup, 4 groups of 4, winners play semis + final Sorted Edited January 8 by Boozyuzi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, OTT said: I've suggested this further up, but could a Scottish Community Shield be an option to mean 9/10 we'd be losing 1 OF game a season, rather than 2? (League winners vs Scottish Cup winners). Would be a showpiece event before the season starts and give Sky something that could potentially be paired with the English version. Agree - Sky have got themselves a sweetheart deal in being able to hold the league structure ransom with this BS 4 OF games a season nonsense. Need to think outside the box where this could be worked round. If we went 16 teams, we'd only have 30 games a season. Unless we split into top 8 and bottom 8, with the top playing for Europe, and the bottom to avoid relegation. Would get us to 37 games. and would provide 3 OF games (+ the Community Shield, and we're meeting Skys demand..) 3 rounds of fixtures, with the 3rd being a random draw? - but given the OF's success in always avoiding each other in the early stages of a cup, I'd question the leagues ability to draw truly randomly. I think 16 teams is the sweet spot as it would mean there would be some relatively good size clubs outside the top flight e.g. if you took the top 4 in the championship up just now you’d still have Dunfermline, Morton, Ayr, Falkirk etc in the leagues/league low. I get the less games point however the League cup already guarantees x2 home games for those not in Europe. Could the groups potentially be expanded to say 9 teams to guarantee x4 home games? (I’ve not fully thought this through - it’s just an idea). Also it seems likely at some point soon FiFPro are going to limit the amount of games players can play per-season (not that it’s likely to impact us). Im not for splits at all. I’m not even for (but could potentially get on board with) playoffs for the title or European spots but understand they are sellable, generate excitement and the argument teams would know at the start of season what they were signing up for. I’ve always thought a Scottish v English champions game alternating between Hampden and Wembley would be good season curtain raiser and generate more interest than the charity shield. I know this was tried once before with the FA and Scottish cup winners but they were extremely unlucky it ended up being St Mirren v Coventry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said: This is a UEFA prize money problem more than a Scottish football problem, no? In some ways yes but they take the biggest pots from every other available income stream also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 32 minutes ago, Boozyuzi said: Just for comparison with similar countries.. Portugal Liga - 18 teams, 34 games. Relegation play off for 3rd bottom Belgian Pro League - 16 teams with Europa league play off for 2nd to 6th in initial league. Also relgation play offs for bottom 4 Dutch Eredivisie - 18 teams with Conference Play offs for 5th to 8th in intial league. Bottom 2 relegated, play off for 3rd bottom Danish Superliga - 12 teams, play each other twice then split into top 6 play offs + bottom 6 playoffs Norway Elite league - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Sweden Allsvenskan - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Surely we can try something different... my choice would be a 16 team league + make everyone play group stage of the League Cup (90 mins + penalties if required) plus the Scottish Cup (90mins + Extra Time + penalities if required) No plastic pitches BTW - this winter break... what's going to happen next year when there are CHampions League/ Europa games in January ?? Edit - I've had a better idea 16 team league + new top Divison Super Cup, 4 groups of 4, winners play semis + final Sorted I like out of the box thinking. Id like to see something like a Scots/Scandinavian Cup competition. Depending on when it was held it could be like the league cup in that clubs in Europe join at a later stage. I mean I would love a British Cup but cannot see England being interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 07/01/2024 at 14:47, Bull's-eye said: I don't understand why we have to follow someone else's league setup or why anybody thinks the previous setup 40 years ago was good, bad or indifferent. The current setup we have is an abomination, its absolute garbage. Only us diehards are keeping it alive. Try something, try anything. I don't actually think we as a club are in a bad state, the stadium has years left it, the noises coming out of the boardroom are proactive regards the future. The rest you must fear for, crumbling stadiums no financial backing and zero sign of change. Personally i don't think the product on the pitch can get much worse so imo the only way is up. Trying anything is better than sitting on your hands. Last time we pushed for league reconstruction, it was booted out as it became about us 'taking our medicine'. That has been and gone and we're back in a strong position. So perhaps our board should open discussions about league reconstruction again instead of sitting on their hands too. We can be the proactive ones pushing it to be a talking point again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 hours ago, Boozyuzi said: Just for comparison with similar countries.. Portugal Liga - 18 teams, 34 games. Relegation play off for 3rd bottom Belgian Pro League - 16 teams with Europa league play off for 2nd to 6th in initial league. Also relgation play offs for bottom 4 Dutch Eredivisie - 18 teams with Conference Play offs for 5th to 8th in intial league. Bottom 2 relegated, play off for 3rd bottom Danish Superliga - 12 teams, play each other twice then split into top 6 play offs + bottom 6 playoffs Norway Elite league - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Sweden Allsvenskan - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Surely we can try something different... my choice would be a 16 team league + make everyone play group stage of the League Cup (90 mins + penalties if required) plus the Scottish Cup (90mins + Extra Time + penalities if required) No plastic pitches BTW - this winter break... what's going to happen next year when there are CHampions League/ Europa games in January ?? Edit - I've had a better idea 16 team league + new top Divison Super Cup, 4 groups of 4, winners play semis + final Sorted And per capita we have higher crowds than them. Do you think that's in spite of the league format and they'd be even higher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Transfer thread is boring at present so here’s my ideas for a restructure of the league and its governance - Governance Independent regulator Government appointed - cannot be associated with (board member etc) any Scottish club Tasked with safeguarding and developing all aspects of the game (competition etc.) League Structure Premier 16 teams Each teams plays one another home and away = 30 games 2 automatic relegation places 1 relegation play off spot Suggestions to make up for fewer league games - Scottish/Scandinavian Cup 60 teams - all top flights teams from Scotland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark 12 groups of 5 Each team plays 2 home games and 2 away games Winners + 4 best runners up advance to last 16 2 legged ties until final or potentially 2 legged ties until the semis then semis and final could be held in one country/city (appreciate this would depend on various factors such as time of year etc. The structure could also depend on time of year it’s played - could teams in Europe bypass group stage?) This suggestion would obviously need a lot of buy in from other leagues but it could be fun and marketable. It could maybe even help our clubs be more competitive in Europe. Title playoff After 30 games points are reset to zero and the top 4 all playoff against each other home and away in a mini-league to determine league champions. Not my preference but would (most likely) provide the apparently precious x4 OF games, generate excitement and be marketable (revenue generated would be equally shared with other top flight clubs). Authorities don’t like OF playing each at end of the season when title is on the line though. Bring back Tennents 6s Family friendly tournament Held in winter break Could invite guest teams from other leagues Charity Shield Season curtain raiser at Hampden Could approach FA and see if it could be Scottish league winners v English league winners Could have an “Old Firm’ Cup if TV insist on certain amount of Old Firm games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said: Transfer thread is boring at present so here’s my ideas for a restructure of the league and its governance - Governance Independent regulator Government appointed - cannot be associated with (board member etc) any Scottish club Tasked with safeguarding and developing all aspects of the game (competition etc.) League Structure Premier 16 teams Each teams plays one another home and away = 30 games 2 automatic relegation places 1 relegation play off spot Suggestions to make up for fewer league games - Scottish/Scandinavian Cup 60 teams - all top flights teams from Scotland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark 12 groups of 5 Each team plays 2 home games and 2 away games Winners + 4 best runners up advance to last 16 2 legged ties until final or potentially 2 legged ties until the semis then semis and final could be held in one country/city (appreciate this would depend on various factors such as time of year etc. The structure could also depend on time of year it’s played - could teams in Europe bypass group stage?) This suggestion would obviously need a lot of buy in from other leagues but it could be fun and marketable. It could maybe even help our clubs be more competitive in Europe. Title playoff After 30 games points are reset to zero and the top 4 all playoff against each other home and away in a mini-league to determine league champions. Not my preference but would (most likely) provide the apparently precious x4 OF games, generate excitement and be marketable (revenue generated would be equally shared with other top flight clubs). Authorities don’t like OF playing each at end of the season when title is on the line though. Bring back Tennents 6s Family friendly tournament Held in winter break Could invite guest teams from other leagues Charity Shield Season curtain raiser at Hampden Could approach FA and see if it could be Scottish league winners v English league winners Could have an “Old Firm’ Cup if TV insist on certain amount of Old Firm games And make the refs for each game from neutral countries 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The small league is pish, auld folk say the large league was pish. Need to go 42 team league and play each other once, think outside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Jack Torrance said: And make the refs for each game from neutral countries 👍 I can see the mad rush by officials from other countries queuing up to spend their weekend in Scotland to referee the likes of Killie v Raith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said: Transfer thread is boring at present so here’s my ideas for a restructure of the league and its governance - Governance Independent regulator Government appointed - cannot be associated with (board member etc) any Scottish club Tasked with safeguarding and developing all aspects of the game (competition etc.) League Structure Premier 16 teams Each teams plays one another home and away = 30 games 2 automatic relegation places 1 relegation play off spot Suggestions to make up for fewer league games - Scottish/Scandinavian Cup 60 teams - all top flights teams from Scotland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark 12 groups of 5 Each team plays 2 home games and 2 away games Winners + 4 best runners up advance to last 16 2 legged ties until final or potentially 2 legged ties until the semis then semis and final could be held in one country/city (appreciate this would depend on various factors such as time of year etc. The structure could also depend on time of year it’s played - could teams in Europe bypass group stage?) This suggestion would obviously need a lot of buy in from other leagues but it could be fun and marketable. It could maybe even help our clubs be more competitive in Europe. Title playoff After 30 games points are reset to zero and the top 4 all playoff against each other home and away in a mini-league to determine league champions. Not my preference but would (most likely) provide the apparently precious x4 OF games, generate excitement and be marketable (revenue generated would be equally shared with other top flight clubs). Authorities don’t like OF playing each at end of the season when title is on the line though. Bring back Tennents 6s Family friendly tournament Held in winter break Could invite guest teams from other leagues Charity Shield Season curtain raiser at Hampden Could approach FA and see if it could be Scottish league winners v English league winners Could have an “Old Firm’ Cup if TV insist on certain amount of Old Firm games Tennents sixes to be mixed male/ female. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregzy2k7 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said: The small league is pish, auld folk say the large league was pish. Need to go 42 team league and play each other once, think outside the box. I like the sound of that, would want both auld firm and eberdeen at home please!! Also Hibs away would be the easiest 3 points from all 42 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said: I like the sound of that, would want both auld firm and eberdeen at home please!! Also Hibs away would be the easiest 3 points from all 42 teams. Fixture list would be top v bottom from season before, 2nd top v 2nd bottom, etc then just work from that, means top teams would ne playing each other at the end.of the season. Like a football royal rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 9 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said: Tennents sixes to be mixed male/ female. Tennents Sexes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, kila said: Tennents Sexes Small glass of white wine sixes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 08/01/2024 at 13:52, Boozyuzi said: Just for comparison with similar countries.. Portugal Liga - 18 teams, 34 games. Relegation play off for 3rd bottom Belgian Pro League - 16 teams with Europa league play off for 2nd to 6th in initial league. Also relgation play offs for bottom 4 Dutch Eredivisie - 18 teams with Conference Play offs for 5th to 8th in intial league. Bottom 2 relegated, play off for 3rd bottom Danish Superliga - 12 teams, play each other twice then split into top 6 play offs + bottom 6 playoffs Norway Elite league - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Sweden Allsvenskan - 16 team league with 30 games - Summer football Surely we can try something different... my choice would be a 16 team league + make everyone play group stage of the League Cup (90 mins + penalties if required) plus the Scottish Cup (90mins + Extra Time + penalities if required) No plastic pitches BTW - this winter break... what's going to happen next year when there are CHampions League/ Europa games in January ?? Edit - I've had a better idea 16 team league + new top Divison Super Cup, 4 groups of 4, winners play semis + final Sorted Loads of teams get by without subsidising themselves via the away support. It would require some cutting of the cloth at certain clubs, but with teams like St Mirren and I think Motherwell too - as well as us and I assume Aberdeen limiting the OF away crowds, its really not as big an issue as it was. Given the financial armagedden that Dundee Utd are experiencing, surely a bigger league that provided more safety is the better long term strategy? As I understand it, relegation costs a team about £4m (maybe more), if we could move to a position which had a bit more stablity of middle of the road clubs, that would surely be to everyones benefit. **** the TV deal. **** Sky. Its our league, we should be free to experiment and find a system which best suits us. Not pander to those utter ...*****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 42 minutes ago, OTT said: Loads of teams get by without subsidising themselves via the away support. It would require some cutting of the cloth at certain clubs, but with teams like St Mirren and I think Motherwell too - as well as us and I assume Aberdeen limiting the OF away crowds, its really not as big an issue as it was. Given the financial armagedden that Dundee Utd are experiencing, surely a bigger league that provided more safety is the better long term strategy? As I understand it, relegation costs a team about £4m (maybe more), if we could move to a position which had a bit more stablity of middle of the road clubs, that would surely be to everyones benefit. **** the TV deal. **** Sky. Its our league, we should be free to experiment and find a system which best suits us. Not pander to those utter ...*****. I wonder what one of the streaming giants would pay for our matches. I doubt we know as Doncaster appears to just sit in his office waiting on Sky and taking the most derisory offer, as long as Lawell gives him the OK. 😑 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 13 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said: I can see the mad rush by officials from other countries queuing up to spend their weekend in Scotland to referee the likes of Killie v Raith. Aye true, but could be more appealing than Aaelsunds v Stabæk on a wet Wednesday in the dark. Tricky one 😆 Maybe just neutral VAR then 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) Double post Edited January 11 by Jack Torrance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 13 minutes ago, Gizmo said: I wonder what one of the streaming giants would pay for our matches. I doubt we know as Doncaster appears to just sit in his office waiting on Sky and taking the most derisory offer, as long as Lawell gives him the OK. 😑 I was watching a podcast thing of some English guys basically talking down the OF fixture, saying they play all the time etc. - think the exact words were "a million times a season".. Its lost its magic because of over-saturation and people are bored with it. They play in the league 4 times, and most likely in both cups most seasons. 6 times a bloody season FFS. Drop it to twice + cups and adopt a bigger league. Scottish football needs it. Value through scarcity. More marketing and hype can be brought to the single derby fixtures (inc Edinburgh & Dundee & Highlands) as much more important because there isn't a 2nd bite at the apple if you lose your home game - have to wait till next season to correct it etc. Small leagues just feel diddy and not serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 hours ago, OTT said: I was watching a podcast thing of some English guys basically talking down the OF fixture, saying they play all the time etc. - think the exact words were "a million times a season".. Its lost its magic because of over-saturation and people are bored with it. They play in the league 4 times, and most likely in both cups most seasons. 6 times a bloody season FFS. Drop it to twice + cups and adopt a bigger league. Scottish football needs it. Value through scarcity. More marketing and hype can be brought to the single derby fixtures (inc Edinburgh & Dundee & Highlands) as much more important because there isn't a 2nd bite at the apple if you lose your home game - have to wait till next season to correct it etc. Small leagues just feel diddy and not serious. Sky think other derbies are so unimportant they don't even choose them for broadcast. They pony up t'uppence to us just to fill their dead airtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 minutes ago, Gizmo said: Sky think other derbies are so unimportant they don't even choose them for broadcast. They pony up t'uppence to us just to fill their dead airtime. If we could create a product that’s genuinely exciting, with other club’s potentially challenging it would change attitudes and increase revenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 There is no point in changing anything if you keep the split and number of games vs the old firm We would not get enough votes to scrap the split and expand the league The eternal juxtaposition o Scottish Football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, Sooks said: There is no point in changing anything if you keep the split and number of games vs the old firm We would not get enough votes to scrap the split and expand the league The eternal juxtaposition o Scottish Football Yeah, but going further, the whole structure and way Scottish football is ran is beyond a joke. its amatuer in the extreme. I'd like to see a breakaway league formed. Either 16 or 18 and a move towards a league president that is tasked with the betterment of the game, instead of this nonsense UN meets bowling club nonsense where everything goes to a vote. Instead of trying to work within the structure, throw it all out. Admit its a mess and work towards a better system from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, OTT said: Yeah, but going further, the whole structure and way Scottish football is ran is beyond a joke. its amatuer in the extreme. I'd like to see a breakaway league formed. Either 16 or 18 and a move towards a league president that is tasked with the betterment of the game, instead of this nonsense UN meets bowling club nonsense where everything goes to a vote. Instead of trying to work within the structure, throw it all out. Admit its a mess and work towards a better system from scratch. There are lots of things that could be improved and you have highlighted some of them It is all just new carpets in Hitlers bunker without changing the league format and getting rid of the split though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 The larger league was changed nearly 50 years ago. Football has changed, time to ignore the coffin dodgers and bring in a 16 or 18 league. I suspect it was Rangers who got it changed as Celtic were dominant. Playing 4 times is a fecking bore and the so called meaningless games are perfect for bloody the youth players. If we don't change soon, Scottish football will become part time. As for the UK league, why? Scotland won't be part of it much longer. So what's the point. 150 years to do it, nae luck. And you ain't doing anything that wipes out the Scotland nation team for the English National team with its new British national team name, playing at Wembley with the odd shite games played abroad in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Was there not an idea of an Atlantic League once? Teams from Scotland, Netherlands,Belgium and Portugal. When I say Idea I mean the OF flashing their undies at anyone that will look. A Scandi / Nordic / Scots version might work. Excluding the OF though. We could say it replaces our national leagues so Euro qualification spots come from this new league. There would be "national" leagues below so there is relegation etc and a path for teams from all nations to reach the top. Personally I'd stick with what we have but if we are moving to a more global system it wouldn't be a bad option. Hearts moving to a British set up would be grim on many levels. No chance of Europe and visiting places that make Motherwell look glamorous. It's not impossible we could win a Nordic league. Not any less so that the current Scottish one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Often find myself thinking about options to increase the league, but in a realistic way that is likely to get voted in. The tricky thing at the moment is teams aren't going to want less matches a season, or lose the prospect of 4 Old Firms etc. One idea though did just pop into my head albeit there's one slight flaw. I propose a 14-team league that still incorporates a split. Now ideally you'd split into 6-8 or 8-6 but this means less than 38 games for one group and more than 38 for the other. But a 7-7 split could work. Now, the flaw is obviously that each matchday post split, a team in each group is going to have a 'bye week'. But, playing the other 13 teams home and away gives you 26 matches, then playing the other 6 teams home and away post split gives you your 38 games a season. Also protecting the prospect of 4 derbies and potentially 2 matches at home to both the Old Firm. Another pioneering idea for our great footballing nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 12/01/2024 at 00:27, OTT said: Yeah, but going further, the whole structure and way Scottish football is ran is beyond a joke. its amatuer in the extreme. I'd like to see a breakaway league formed. Either 16 or 18 and a move towards a league president that is tasked with the betterment of the game, instead of this nonsense UN meets bowling club nonsense where everything goes to a vote. Instead of trying to work within the structure, throw it all out. Admit its a mess and work towards a better system from scratch. The one and only time the OF really got rattled was years back, when the other clubs threatened to withdraw from the league setup and leave them without anyone to play against. They don’t like to be reminded that they actually need opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Doc Rob said: The one and only time the OF really got rattled was years back, when the other clubs threatened to withdraw from the league setup and leave them without anyone to play against. They don’t like to be reminded that they actually need opposition. Yeah, I think the other clubs have a lot more soft power than they realise. Strong leadership at clubs like Hearts/Hibs/Aberdeen/Dundee/Dundee Utd could be really powerful in forcing change provided those clubs can work collectively for a common goal. As you say, who are they going to play? If those clubs decided Doncaster needed to go and made a joint statement, I think it would make his position untenable very quickly, as he'd be in effect losing the support of the next biggest clubs in Scotland (plus Rangers want him gone anyway). I would absolutely love a larger league. The current format is depressing, as you know before a ball is kicked that Celtic or Rangers have won the league. In an 18 team league only needed to play the OF twice, their impact on your season becomes halfed and it becomes conceivable that there could be a challenger if that club could churn out solid results against the other teams. A larger league would give hope. Something is badly needed to shake up the league structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiro Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 We could do a lot worse than finely tune the Rugby League model, as used in their Super League. The ugly sisters would probably grumble as this would significantly increase the likelihood of an end to the duopoly 16 team league, with each club playing the others on a home and away basis (30 games). The top six clubs would then play off to decide the title winners as follows. WEEK 1 - ELIMINATORS Eliminator 1 - 3rd vs 6th Eliminator 2 - 4th vs 5th WEEK 2 - SEMI-FINALS Semi-Final 1 - 1st vs lowest ranked winner from Eliminators Semi-Final 2 - 2nd vs highest ranked winner from Eliminators WEEK 3 - FINAL Winner of Semi-Final 1 Vs Winner of Semi-Final 2 Regarding relegation the bottom two would be relegated automatically with these teams being replaced by the top two from the lower tier. The third bottom team in the premier league would play the third placed team, from the second tier, in a play off (single fixture at the premier league teams home ground) to decide which club would take their place in the premier league,the following season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemi’s gloves Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 16 minutes ago, Tiro said: We could do a lot worse than finely tune the Rugby League model, as used in their Super League. The ugly sisters would probably grumble as this would significantly increase the likelihood of an end to the duopoly 16 team league, with each club playing the others on a home and away basis (30 games). The top six clubs would then play off to decide the title winners as follows. WEEK 1 - ELIMINATORS Eliminator 1 - 3rd vs 6th Eliminator 2 - 4th vs 5th WEEK 2 - SEMI-FINALS Semi-Final 1 - 1st vs lowest ranked winner from Eliminators Semi-Final 2 - 2nd vs highest ranked winner from Eliminators WEEK 3 - FINAL Winner of Semi-Final 1 Vs Winner of Semi-Final 2 Regarding relegation the bottom two would be relegated automatically with these teams being replaced by the top two from the lower tier. The third bottom team in the premier league would play the third placed team, from the second tier, in a play off (single fixture at the premier league teams home ground) to decide which club would take their place in the premier league,the following season. What a horrendous idea! Imagine Germany had introduced it this year in the hope of reducing Bayern Munich’s dominance. What we’d now have would be Leverkusen set to win the “regular” season but all the smart money on Bayern Munich to extend their championship winning run to 12 years! Actually in England they use exactly this system in the National League and the National Leagues South & North BUT with the crucial difference that the clubs involved are those that finish 2nd to 7th, to fill the second promotion place. The top club in the league are the champions - as they surely should be - and gain automatic promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 27/03/2024 at 11:51, Aussie Jambo said: Bet you..? Bit childish no? Would that make you feel better? 29 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said: What a horrendous idea! Imagine Germany had introduced it this year in the hope of reducing Bayern Munich’s dominance. What we’d now have would be Leverkusen set to win the “regular” season but all the smart money on Bayern Munich to extend their championship winning run to 12 years! Actually in England they use exactly this system in the National League and the National Leagues South & North BUT with the crucial difference that the clubs involved are those that finish 2nd to 7th, to fill the second promotion place. The top club in the league are the champions - as they surely should be - and gain automatic promotion. Play offs to decide the ultimate champion work at the top level of sports such as Rugby League, Rugby Union, Cricket, Australian Rules Football, American Football, Basketball and Baseball. It also works in football in countries such as Australia and the USA. I don't think it would be a horrendous idea at all, but it would be a different idea to what we are used to and would be a change to 150 years of history. I think a 16 or 18 team league with the top 8 qualifying for the play offs (in whatever form they would be in) and maybe with the top team in the regular season being guaranteed a Europa league place as a minimum - but the play-offs moving towards European places and the Champion. I think I'd be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Great idea. It’ll never happen, but would change the dynamic of Scottish football instantly. 20 team top division with bottom 4 going down and seeded playoffs for the rest. No meaningless games. League winners could take the traditional ‘champions’ league spot, while all other spots determined by the playoffs system. Scrap the Scottish cup and league cup. No meaningless games? Other than those potentially finishing in places 17 -20 and potential "champions" most of the games prior to the play offs would be effectively meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: They’d be scrapping to get out of the relagation spots. All of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiro Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 6 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said: What a horrendous idea! Imagine Germany had introduced it this year in the hope of reducing Bayern Munich’s dominance. What we’d now have would be Leverkusen set to win the “regular” season but all the smart money on Bayern Munich to extend their championship winning run to 12 years! Actually in England they use exactly this system in the National League and the National Leagues South & North BUT with the crucial difference that the clubs involved are those that finish 2nd to 7th, to fill the second promotion place. The top club in the league are the champions - as they surely should be - and gain automatic promotion. 6 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said: What a horrendous idea! Imagine Germany had introduced it this year in the hope of reducing Bayern Munich’s dominance. What we’d now have would be Leverkusen set to win the “regular” season but all the smart money on Bayern Munich to extend their championship winning run to 12 years! Actually in England they use exactly this system in the National League and the National Leagues South & North BUT with the crucial difference that the clubs involved are those that finish 2nd to 7th, to fill the second promotion place. The top club in the league are the champions - as they surely should be - and gain automatic promotion. What is horrendous is the status quo as It suits only two teams. Any small changes will do nothing to address the duopoly issue. Change has to be more substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Play all season, finish top and not be champions ? No thanks, I’d rather we didn’t follow the pioneers of soccer. Our split is stupid but in general league formats work perfectly and champions should be decided over the season not 3 or 4 knockout games at the end. We already have cup competitions to decide winners by knockout games. The problem is the imbalance in finances not the league format. Try sort that out rather making it easier for teams to fluke a league win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts_fan Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 If the half-dozen biggest clubs outwith the arsecheeks managed to get 12 other teams from below to join them, they could create a new league. It would leave the arsecheeks having to scrape around to fill up the existing league with mostly extremely small clubs. Sky would get their wish of 4 arsecheeks derbies, and would be happy. Teams like St Mirren and Kilmarnock who would stay in the sinking ship would also get their dream scenario of arsecheeks away supports 4 times a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 18 teams Play each other once home and once away = 34 games None of this top/bottom split shite. Bottom club relegated, 16th and 17th in the play-offs. League cup same as it is. Scottish cup a home and away affair to make up at least 1 extra home game. Independent body running the game. Reserve league to return. More referees from all over the country and they go full time. Properly promoted league by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Professionally negotiated terms with broadcasters. Sorted. Stop feckin about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 37 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Sorry, mis read your post. The rest would be vying for better seedings. Post season would be something like 1st v 16th, 2nd v 15th etc in round 1. It’s too early and I’m on my phone, but something semi-regional like they do in the NHL could allow them to guarantee a minimum number of derbies for TV and fan interest. I get that but don't see it as a massive draw for crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: 18 teams Play each other once home and once away = 34 games None of this top/bottom split shite. Bottom club relegated, 16th and 17th in the play-offs. League cup same as it is. Scottish cup a home and away affair to make up at least 1 extra home game. Independent body running the game. Reserve league to return. More referees from all over the country and they go full time. Properly promoted league by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Professionally negotiated terms with broadcasters. Sorted. Stop feckin about! Would definitely go with a bigger league but only to get rid of the split. We do know the OF will still skoosh the league though ? Edited April 3 by Dazo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Zero point in proposing solutions which don’t involve 4 old firm games and for a lot of teams enough fixtures against the big teams. AND where they lose out some sort of offset to make it up. It’s just pointless, It will never ever happen, it not even going to be on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 17 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said: If the half-dozen biggest clubs outwith the arsecheeks managed to get 12 other teams from below to join them, they could create a new league. It would leave the arsecheeks having to scrape around to fill up the existing league with mostly extremely small clubs. Sky would get their wish of 4 arsecheeks derbies, and would be happy. Teams like St Mirren and Kilmarnock who would stay in the sinking ship would also get their dream scenario of arsecheeks away supports 4 times a season. What a league that would be. How would we fill the £3m gap from TV money. What league do you think they’d choose to broadcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said: Zero point in proposing solutions which don’t involve 4 old firm games and for a lot of teams enough fixtures against the big teams. AND where they lose out some sort of offset to make it up. It’s just pointless, It will never ever happen, it not even going to be on the table. Viewers don't rate the OF derby though. Its over sold and has lost value as a result. Was listening to a podcast and one guy on it described them playing "a million times a season". I think although it sounds a bit counter intuitive, it would actually be better to move to just 2 OF derbies a season. It would become a less regular event and would become more of a showpiece fixture. It would also force the league to better market other games, which is essentially what Barry Hearn was getting at way back when he was asked then ignored! The OF largely sell themselves, the others don't and for the league to improve its standing more effort needs to be put into lifting up clubs like Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd. Not every league has one A list team after another, but there is 100% more scope to better market the non-OF teams and games. Also think by moving to a larger league we might be able to force more expansive football. Too many teams in the league because its so stuffy just bore the opposition into submission with hyper defensive football. If we moved to 18 teams, 1 automatic 1 play off, then it becomes a more stable league with relegation less likely for most sides. They can then afford to try and play football rather than 11 men behind the ball. Problem is the above takes balls the SFA/SPFL don't have. Change requires vision that Doncaster has proven he utterly is devoid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwell Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I think it's the voting system in Scottish football that needs sorting first.the way it is just now makes Russia and north Korea look democratic .the old firm just veto anything they don't want ,☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiro Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, Dazo said: Play all season, finish top and not be champions ? No thanks, I’d rather we didn’t follow the pioneers of soccer. Our split is stupid but in general league formats work perfectly and champions should be decided over the season not 3 or 4 knockout games at the end. We already have cup competitions to decide winners by knockout games. The problem is the imbalance in finances not the league format. Try sort that out rather making it easier for teams to fluke a league win. The connection that you have failed to make is that the financial disparity stems from the league format. Only two teams can win the league and in so doing they pocket the windfall from the Champions league . This allows them to buy better players and pay higher wages. The gulf over a season is only going to get bigger as is the differential between non old firm teams and the rest of Europe. Brighton, for example have just made a profit of £125 m and that figure does not include the £115m that they made on a single transfer fee. The £125mi s the result of being a part of the richest league in the world and participation in a higher level of European competition. We have no access to the former and limited access to the latter as the Scottish footballing model is not intended to allow non old firm teams to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil D. Corners Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) I still like the split. It gives the majority of teams in our league something to play for IMO. Let’s face it only two teams play for the top two spots. I’m always looking to see when we confirm top 6. Just now I’m enjoying that Aberdeen are most probably a bottom 6 team, and fingers crossed Hibs too. The league could do a lot more to sell the spilt at this stage of the season. Edited April 3 by Phil D. Corners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 24 minutes ago, Tiro said: The connection that you have failed to make is that the financial disparity stems from the league format. Only two teams can win the league and in so doing they pocket the windfall from the Champions league . This allows them to buy better players and pay higher wages. The gulf over a season is only going to get bigger as is the differential between non old firm teams and the rest of Europe. Brighton, for example have just made a profit of £125 m and that figure does not include the £115m that they made on a single transfer fee. The £125mi s the result of being a part of the richest league in the world and participation in a higher level of European competition. We have no access to the former and limited access to the latter as the Scottish footballing model is not intended to allow non old firm teams to develop. How did I fail to make that connection ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 13 minutes ago, Tiro said: The connection that you have failed to make is that the financial disparity stems from the league format. Only two teams can win the league and in so doing they pocket the windfall from the Champions league . This allows them to buy better players and pay higher wages. The gulf over a season is only going to get bigger as is the differential between non old firm teams and the rest of Europe. Brighton, for example have just made a profit of £125 m and that figure does not include the £115m that they made on a single transfer fee. The £125mi s the result of being a part of the richest league in the world and participation in a higher level of European competition. We have no access to the former and limited access to the latter as the Scottish footballing model is not intended to allow non old firm teams to develop. For me this is the problem way more than anything to do with the league format. In 2022-23, the old firm received 15m euros just for turning up to the group stage. Celtic got another 1.8m euros for two draws Celtic received £26m for their overall participation, taking into account all the payments (participation, prize money, TV payouts etc). Even rangers got £18m. What did we get for our Conference League campaign? £4m? Even that gives us a massive advantage over the small SPFL clubs and it is showing this season. It simply is not a level playing field and no amount of tinkering with the league format will change that. UEFA have happily destroyed club football's competitiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Bigger leagues are one of these things that a lot of people think they want, but after a 4-5 years we'd be regretting it. Firstly, you'd kill the second tier. It would be a wasteland and essentially the same teams would bob between the top two divisions. Our second tier is a brilliant competition just now. The format is just right. Why ruin that? Secondly, your season ticket would lose a Hibs game, an Aberdeen game, and one OF game each season, replaced by Thistle, Raith, Morton etc. Some folk might fancy that, I don't. I think after a few years people would regret that. Thirdly, there'd be a lot of dead rubbers towards the end of the season most years. Unless we had very convaluted play-offs that might end up sending our 10th best team into the Conference League or something. Do we want that? As it is, more or less every game in all four divisions matters. Dead rubbers are very rare until the very end of the season. The current system is good. Crowds are probably the best they've been in the era since stadiums went from mainly standing to mainly sitting. For all that people deride the split, at this time of the season every year it provides a bit of excitement in the league and then we'll have more or less straight play-offs for the title, Europe, play-offs and relegation. The lower leagues have similar with promotion and relegation play-offs. We'd lose a lot by making the leagues bigger and we'd gain very little. And anyone who thinks we'd be more likely to win the league by giving the Old Firm more games against the likes of Morton, Ayr etc has lost the run of reality. The current set-up is imperfect, but it's about the best we're going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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