That thing you do Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Strong earthquake, more to come, now a plane crash. Horrible start to 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 That plane crash is horrendous. Tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Amazing all those got off the airliner. Sad about the 5 on the coastguard plane. Wondering how the collision happened and if the coastguard plane was waiting to depart and entered the runway prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The new Airbus A350 probably saved a lot of lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 They've just said on the radio that the coastguard plane was on its way to deliver aid to hard hit areas of the earthquakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandjambo3 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, kila said: Amazing all those got off the airliner. Sad about the 5 on the coastguard plane. Wondering how the collision happened and if the coastguard plane was waiting to depart and entered the runway prematurely. Yes….one of the experts had said the passenger aircraft was not in the wrong place and landed on the correct runway so, that narrows it down. Speculation of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 29 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said: Yes….one of the experts had said the passenger aircraft was not in the wrong place and landed on the correct runway so, that narrows it down. Speculation of course. The normal schedule hadn't been changed it seems and the emergency planes were fitting in between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The video of the plane bursting into a fireball as it lands is terrifying. Amazing that all 500+ folk on the plane made it off alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Did you see how many fireworks they set off? Mother nature said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) Coming in to land collided with a smaller plane in which everyone was killed, the Airbus remains intact but streaks along the runway already blazing. It's incredible anybody got out of this alive far less everybody, this will be examined for a long time. How did they all get out of there fast enough. Edited January 2 by JFK-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandjambo3 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The captain/pilot of the smaller aircraft survived but is in hospital…..not sure how serious though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 31 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: How did they all get out of there fast enough. Mostly because the Airbus didn't look like that from the outset. Initially there was some, but not overwhelming, smoke in the cabin. When the news channels started covering it, the only flames visible inside were at the windows immediately above the port wing. I think the expected standard for evacuating one of these s 90 seconds, ad that was enough time it seems before the fire really took hold. If it had hit the coastguard aircraft more square on and done more initial structural damage, it may have been a different story though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 6 minutes ago, Daktari said: Mostly because the Airbus didn't look like that from the outset. Initially there was some, but not overwhelming, smoke in the cabin. When the news channels started covering it, the only flames visible inside were at the windows immediately above the port wing. I think the expected standard for evacuating one of these s 90 seconds, ad that was enough time it seems before the fire really took hold. If it had hit the coastguard aircraft more square on and done more initial structural damage, it may have been a different story though. Yes. There was video coverage of the passengers using the slides to get off the plane before it was engulfed by flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just seen this on the BBC website too. Another good point was that it was fortunate it was coming in to land and not taking off.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67865132 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daktari Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) … and the passengers didn’t stop to pick their stuff out of the overhead lockers. Remember the BA fire at Las Vegas airport? Half the passengers getting of the burning plane trundling their carry-ons….. (This is also why cabin lights are dimmed at take-off & landing - so your eyes are accustomed to the dark. And shades up so firefighters can see in to where the flames might be) Edited January 2 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrysmithsgloves Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, JFK-1 said: . How did they all get out of there fast enough. Played a Hibs game on the monitors 🤔 Edited January 2 by henrysmithsgloves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroondevo52 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The clips I saw on the news showed the lack of panic in the passengers was unreal and more than likely went a long way to avoiding any fatality's on the large plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, maroondevo52 said: The clips I saw on the news showed the lack of panic in the passengers was unreal and more than likely went a long way to avoiding any fatality's on the large plane. Great composure from those Japanese people. Contrast that with the Manchester airport disaster in 1985. Sort of similar thing, plane taxiing for takeoff, pilot hears a thud come from beneath the plane and aborts the takeoff. There were a total 137 aboard including crew, less than half the number on that Airbus. But an entirely different result with 55 dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Dave Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Someone seriously ****ed up in the control tower it would seem. Horrendous news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, JFK-1 said: Great composure from those Japanese people. Contrast that with the Manchester airport disaster in 1985. Sort of similar thing, plane taxiing for takeoff, pilot hears a thud come from beneath the plane and aborts the takeoff. There were a total 137 aboard including crew, less than half the number on that Airbus. But an entirely different result with 55 dead. I remember reading a book about aircraft safety - the Manchester runway crash was a turning point and led to the introduction of a lot of new safety measures - including improved access to overwing exits and floor lighting. Also by pure bad luck the aircraft was turned so the wind blew the flames over the aircraft rather than away from it. The book also talked about ‘panic’ - apparently you want a little bit of fear. In cases like this (or fires in general) some people are just rooted to the spot (or their seats). There can also be a cultural thing about taking commands from cabin crew who tend to be younger (and female). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, FWJ said: There can also be a cultural thing about taking commands from cabin crew who tend to be younger (and female). This will probably be a huge part of it. The Japanese appear a far more ordered and civilised peoples than the likes of Brits for example. Less likely to be a plane of folk half pissed who'd be raking about the overhead bins for Chantelle's ipad. 370 odd very fortunate people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 How crew pulled off flawless evacuation from Japan jet inferno Passengers dashed to the emergency exits of a burning Japan Airlines jet without their hand luggage, in compliance with the flight crew's instructions. Leaving their valuables behind was a "major factor" behind the swift evacuation of all 379 people on board, right before the aircraft was engulfed in flames on the runway of Haneda Airport in Tokyo last Tuesday, aviation experts say. FULL BBC ARTICLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 i'm beginning to think if I were ever caught up in some aircraft incident I would be hoping it were Airbus and not Boeing. It was really spectacular that everybody escaped that plane, and this isn't the first time an Airbus has been involved in a "miraculous" accident where everyone survived. The "miracle on the Hudson" when the plane went into the river after a bird strike was also an Airbus piloted by a man who made all the right decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, JFK-1 said: How crew pulled off flawless evacuation from Japan jet inferno Passengers dashed to the emergency exits of a burning Japan Airlines jet without their hand luggage, in compliance with the flight crew's instructions. Leaving their valuables behind was a "major factor" behind the swift evacuation of all 379 people on board, right before the aircraft was engulfed in flames on the runway of Haneda Airport in Tokyo last Tuesday, aviation experts say. FULL BBC ARTICLE Should pass a law with manslaughter level of consequences for anyone who takes their carry on luggage. Make it a meaningful part of the briefing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Reminds me of a conversation/argument I had about Ten years ago with my then manager at Haymarket station. We were talking about the quickest and safest way to evacuate the station if the need arise. They were adamant that the passengers/customers took their luggage with them, I insisted they left their luggage where it was as it would be a big hinderance to them evacuating quickly and safely. This manager wouldn't have it. I was just grateful in the end we didn't have to put it to the test. I was alot more happier when said manager retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 26 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said: Should pass a law with manslaughter level of consequences for anyone who takes their carry on luggage. Make it a meaningful part of the briefing. Fair comment, these Japanese people have obviously followed it perfectly, but to be fair that plane was burning well before it stopped and they would all have known it. Quite an encouragement to get your arse into gear forget anything else. Fractions of a second are at stake in a situation like that but I can still even in an instance like this where the plane is obviously burning some mind numbingly stupid entitled arse would try to not leave a new phone behind or something. So yeah with that in mind, good idea. If you're the stupid arse who does that even if everybody still got out you're fined thousands with a risk of jail time on top. Automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, JFK-1 said: How crew pulled off flawless evacuation from Japan jet inferno What a lot of people don't realise is that the crew, especially the cabin crew aren't just trolly dolly's there to serve you with tea & coffee, but highly trained people who in the event of an emergency you will rely upon to help save your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: What a lot of people don't realise is that the crew, especially the cabin crew aren't just trolly dolly's there to serve you with tea & coffee, but highly trained people who in the event of an emergency you will rely upon to help save your life. Agreed and I'm sure that many airlines and their staff will be reacquainting themselves, today, with the emergency procedures applicable to the planes they fly. The pre-flight briefings are all very well, but it is only through practising evacuations that staff will be confident about their role in the event of an actual emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 We have occasional evacuation of the public in my workplace, thankfully all false alarms, and the stupidity of the general public really is quite impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) As cabin crew say “we’re there to save your ass, not kiss it”. One of only two George Crosses awarded to a woman in peacetime was awarded posthumously to a BOAC flight attendant who returned to a burning plane cabin to rescue more passengers at Heathrow. Edited January 3 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyby Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Coast Guard Plane not cleared for take off. Edited January 3 by allyby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 20 hours ago, Daktari said: Mostly because the Airbus didn't look like that from the outset. Initially there was some, but not overwhelming, smoke in the cabin. When the news channels started covering it, the only flames visible inside were at the windows immediately above the port wing. I think the expected standard for evacuating one of these s 90 seconds, ad that was enough time it seems before the fire really took hold. If it had hit the coastguard aircraft more square on and done more initial structural damage, it may have been a different story though. Yep, in order to get an airworthiness certificate, you need to demonstrate that you can evacuate an aircraft completely in 90 seconds. I also remember from years gone by as a visitor to Edinburgh Airport fire station (my old scout master was the Chief Fire Officer), that the general rule of thumb for an aircraft fire was that if you are not putting foam on it within two minutes, start your bodycount... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 She says the coastguard plane was told to 'proceed to the runway and stop'. Think more clarity needed on the exact words given by ATC, but sounds like a 'lineup on the runway and wait' despite there be a jetliner due to land first. Were they trying to squeeze the coastguard plane out before the jetliner landed but ATC got distracted and time ran out? Jetliner would've gone around if there was visibly a plane already on the runway right by their landing zone, but at night time it's difficult to see and the automated warnings were maybe too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, kila said: She says the coastguard plane was told to 'proceed to the runway and stop'. Think more clarity needed on the exact words given by ATC, but sounds like a 'lineup on the runway and wait' despite there be a jetliner due to land first. Were they trying to squeeze the coastguard plane out before the jetliner landed but ATC got distracted and time ran out? Jetliner would've gone around if there was visibly a plane already on the runway right by their landing zone, but at night time it's difficult to see and the automated warnings were maybe too late. "taxi to holding point" is being reported as the last instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, redjambo said: "taxi to holding point" is being reported as the last instruction. Wonder how much before the jetliner landing they entered the runway. Did they taxi on just before or were they sitting there for more than just a few moments (since the previous plane took off in front) awaiting take off clearance and ATC should've noticed? Though it is a big and busy airport with up to three runways in simultaneous use and I don't know what automated systems ATC have to detect aircraft on a runway and one on immediate final approach. List of failings might be long... at least air travel will become safer from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north wales jambo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I work for Airbus, on the A350, building the wings, it really is driven by quality and safety.. The vast majority of the aircraft, is made up of carbon fibre composite materials, the wings and fuselage being made solely of composite material. Thankfully everyone got off safely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, north wales jambo said: I work for Airbus, on the A350, building the wings, it really is driven by quality and safety.. The vast majority of the aircraft, is made up of carbon fibre composite materials, the wings and fuselage being made solely of composite material. Thankfully everyone got off safely Sounds a bit daft but I’d imagine the Airbus engineers will be rubbing their hands at getting to do a deep investigation into a plane that’s been in a real crash as opposed to a computer generated simulation or tests of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I think it's convenient for the investigation that the only survivor of the coastguard plane is the captain who reportedly was piloting it. Presuming he can recover sufficiently to speak and can remember what happened. And on the Airbus the evacuation with 0 causalities just becomes more impressive. According to a passenger, the escape plan was made more difficult as only one set of doors were used. "An announcement said doors in the back and middle could not be opened. So everyone disembarked from the front," he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambosean75 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: I think it's convenient for the investigation that the only survivor of the coastguard plane is the captain who reportedly was piloting it. Presuming he can recover sufficiently to speak and can remember what happened. And on the Airbus the evacuation with 0 causalities just becomes more impressive. According to a passenger, the escape plan was made more difficult as only one set of doors were used. "An announcement said doors in the back and middle could not be opened. So everyone disembarked from the front," he said. if they suspected fire near the engines I'm pretty sure they wouldn't open those doors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 41 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: I think it's convenient for the investigation that the only survivor of the coastguard plane is the captain who reportedly was piloting it. Presuming he can recover sufficiently to speak and can remember what happened. And on the Airbus the evacuation with 0 causalities just becomes more impressive. According to a passenger, the escape plan was made more difficult as only one set of doors were used. "An announcement said doors in the back and middle could not be opened. So everyone disembarked from the front," he said. The coastguard pilot has already spoken and said he was told he had take off clearance. But the ATC recordings contradict that. The jetliner pilots didn't even know the plane was on fire and the cabin crew had to alert them. How the **** can they not know they just collided with another plane? I know it'll be a small plane and harder to see, but I'm amazed they were unaware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 12 minutes ago, kila said: The coastguard pilot has already spoken and said he was told he had take off clearance. But the ATC recordings contradict that. The jetliner pilots didn't even know the plane was on fire and the cabin crew had to alert them. How the **** can they not know they just collided with another plane? I know it'll be a small plane and harder to see, but I'm amazed they were unaware. I'd imagine they're so high up off the ground and they flare the nose up to land so they wouldn't see anything. They probably just thought they'd had a hard landing. According to t'internet the Airbus weighs around 340,000lb empty and the Bombardier around 26,000lb empty. They probably didn't feel a thing until the nose wheel went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: I'd imagine they're so high up off the ground and they flare the nose up to land so they wouldn't see anything. They probably just thought they'd had a hard landing. According to t'internet the Airbus weighs around 340,000lb empty and the Bombardier around 26,000lb empty. They probably didn't feel a thing until the nose wheel went They'd have a clear view of the runway and where they are planning to touch down just before they flared though, it's not like it was Concorde landing. I'm still wondering at what time the coastguard plane entered the runway. At night with the runway all lit up I can imagine a smaller plane with less lights, especially from the back, being harder to see. Passengers reportedly felt a big thud, but not clear if they were meaning at the touchdown point or collision. I'd be amazed if the pilots didn't feel anything though, even the landing gear retracting can be felt. Colliding/skimming across a big lump of metal and not realising...! I had expected the pilots to have been aware at least at the moment of impact something wasn't right, rather than continuing down the runway post collision and having to be told by the cabin crew the plane is on fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 On 02/01/2024 at 22:06, JFK-1 said: Great composure from those Japanese people. Contrast that with the Manchester airport disaster in 1985. Sort of similar thing, plane taxiing for takeoff, pilot hears a thud come from beneath the plane and aborts the takeoff. There were a total 137 aboard including crew, less than half the number on that Airbus. But an entirely different result with 55 dead. Ive heard the confucious cukture of following instructions saved lives. But, it can take them as well as seen in the Sewol Ferry disaster in Korea where 314 people died who couldve lived had they not listened to instructions. I suspect though, it did help an orderly evacuation of an aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackem Midlothian Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 02/01/2024 at 18:22, Greedy Jambo said: Did you see how many fireworks they set off? Mother nature said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, kila said: They'd have a clear view of the runway and where they are planning to touch down just before they flared though, it's not like it was Concorde landing. I'm still wondering at what time the coastguard plane entered the runway. At night with the runway all lit up I can imagine a smaller plane with less lights, especially from the back, being harder to see. Passengers reportedly felt a big thud, but not clear if they were meaning at the touchdown point or collision. I'd be amazed if the pilots didn't feel anything though, even the landing gear retracting can be felt. Colliding/skimming across a big lump of metal and not realising...! I had expected the pilots to have been aware at least at the moment of impact something wasn't right, rather than continuing down the runway post collision and having to be told by the cabin crew the plane is on fire! The pilots would have felt the collision no doubts about that, but as the fire was underneath the middle of the aircraft, I doubt the pilots would have known or even seen the fire from their position in the cockpit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 03/01/2024 at 07:21, JFK-1 said: i'm beginning to think if I were ever caught up in some aircraft incident I would be hoping it were Airbus and not Boeing. It was really spectacular that everybody escaped that plane, and this isn't the first time an Airbus has been involved in a "miraculous" accident where everyone survived. The "miracle on the Hudson" when the plane went into the river after a bird strike was also an Airbus piloted by a man who made all the right decisions. Boeing still having problems with their new MAX 737's, this time with the MAX 7, they are wanting the FAA to issue a safety exemption certificate over potentially dangerous engine housing overheating. https://apnews.com/article/boeing-exemption-safety-rules-max-10be423759080f64d4418019e4e4874d And Alaska Airlines have just grounded their entire fleet of Boeing 737 MAX-9 aircraft after a window blew out in mid-air. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 10 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: And Alaska Airlines have just grounded their entire fleet of Boeing 737 MAX-9 aircraft after a window blew out in mid-air. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Japan Airlines Crash: How All 379 Onboard Survived | WSJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Boeing still having problems with their new MAX 737's, this time with the MAX 7, they are wanting the FAA to issue a safety exemption certificate over potentially dangerous engine housing overheating. https://apnews.com/article/boeing-exemption-safety-rules-max-10be423759080f64d4418019e4e4874d And Alaska Airlines have just grounded their entire fleet of Boeing 737 MAX-9 aircraft after a window blew out in mid-air. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67899564 the usa have grounded 171 boeing planes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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