Anxiety...

[Morgan]

Due to a phone call we received this morning from a friend, we have discovered that anxiety has literally scores of symptoms. Symptoms that we, as non-medical people, would never have given thought to. Naively, when we have heard of people having anxiety we thought it was just like depression.  How wrong we were!

 

Headaches, neck pain, chest pain, back pain, tingling in the hands and feet, lack of concentration, forgetfulness, something called 'brain fog', vision problems, anti-social behavior, fear of socialising, to name but a few. One symptom that really surprised us was scalp problems (tightness, sores, tingling and hair-loss).

 

We are grateful that, at last, our friend has sought proper medical advice as she has not been herself since at least 2016.

 

Anxiety also appears to be vastly more common than people think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[been here before]

Whether you view anxiety as a symptom of fear or fear as a symptom of anxiety I'm always reminded of Cus D'amato words, they've always stood me in good stead.:

 

"Fear is like fire. You can make it work for you: it can warm you in the winter, cook your food when you're hungry, give you light when you are in the dark, and produce energy. Let it go out of control and it can hurt you, even kill you…. Fear is a friend of exceptional people.”

[Morgan]

18 minutes ago, been here before said:

Whether you view anxiety as a symptom of fear or fear as a symptom of anxiety I'm always reminded of Cus D'amato words, they've always stood me in good stead.:

 

"Fear is like fire. You can make it work for you: it can warm you in the winter, cook your food when you're hungry, give you light when you are in the dark, and produce energy. Let it go out of control and it can hurt you, even kill you…. Fear is a friend of exceptional people.”

Thank you, bhb.

 

I am going to email this to her tonight.

 

 

[Ked]

56 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Due to a phone call we received this morning from a friend, we have discovered that anxiety has literally scores of symptoms. Symptoms that we, as non-medical people, would never have given thought to. Naively, when we have heard of people having anxiety we thought it was just like depression.  How wrong we were!

 

Headaches, neck pain, chest pain, back pain, tingling in the hands and feet, lack of concentration, forgetfulness, something called 'brain fog', vision problems, anti-social behavior, fear of socialising, to name but a few. One symptom that really surprised us was scalp problems (tightness, sores, tingling and hair-loss).

 

We are grateful that, at last, our friend has sought proper medical advice as she has not been herself since at least 2016.

 

Anxiety also appears to be vastly more common than people think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no doubt both affect the other .

Physically and spiritually(mentally).

Anxiety I suppose is relative.

Been here's quote kind of sums it up.

Anxiety made us what we are out of instant need.

There was more control perhaps if we needed to action that by building a fire or hunting..

Is life more nuanced now and our wiring can't cope? 

Sorry I know its a personal thing for you .Its interesting in a wider sense.

And that it's relative.

 

 

[been here before]

17 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Thank you, bhb.

 

I am going to email this to her tonight.

 

 

 

Nae bother. D'amato was paranoid as **** but if that theory worked for Floyd Paterson and Mike Tyson then there must be something in them 😄

[JudyJudyJudy]

Many stomach problems can be related to anxiety too . 

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Many stomach problems can be related to anxiety too . 

Funny, she didn’t mention that one.  There was probably too much to take in to process it all.

 

Cheers, James.  👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Morgan said:

Funny, she didn’t mention that one.  There was probably too much to take in to process it all.

 

Cheers, James.  👍

Yes there’s a definite link . 

[Morgan]

33 minutes ago, Ked said:

There's no doubt both affect the other .

Physically and spiritually(mentally).

Anxiety I suppose is relative.

Been here's quote kind of sums it up.

Anxiety made us what we are out of instant need.

There was more control perhaps if we needed to action that by building a fire or hunting..

Is life more nuanced now and our wiring can't cope? 

Sorry I know its a personal thing for you .Its interesting in a wider sense.

And that it's relative.

 

 

No apoliogy needed, Ked.  Good post from you. Ta.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Morgan said:

Due to a phone call we received this morning from a friend, we have discovered that anxiety has literally scores of symptoms. Symptoms that we, as non-medical people, would never have given thought to. Naively, when we have heard of people having anxiety we thought it was just like depression.  How wrong we were!

 

Headaches, neck pain, chest pain, back pain, tingling in the hands and feet, lack of concentration, forgetfulness, something called 'brain fog', vision problems, anti-social behavior, fear of socialising, to name but a few. One symptom that really surprised us was scalp problems (tightness, sores, tingling and hair-loss).

 

We are grateful that, at last, our friend has sought proper medical advice as she has not been herself since at least 2016.

 

Anxiety also appears to be vastly more common than people think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't aware of chest pains or pins and needles in the arms being a symptom until I had them. Thought I was about to have a heart attack. 

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Many stomach problems can be related to anxiety too . 

I've read & heard about that too. e.g. stomach ulcers or bulimia ?  The word anxiety seems to be a bit of a "catch-all" prognosis when nothing more specific can be used to describe what someone is suffering from - so I guess a lot of people suffer from  anxiety, some without even realising it.

 

From @Morgan's list of symptoms,  the "itchy scalp"  one crops up from time to time in online self-diagnosis sites (including NHS).  Psoriasis etc.   

 

I remember some motivational work guru saying something along the lines of what @been here before       mentioned in a training course back in the day (Lou Tice, I think - "Investment in Excellence").   It was something like - a modicum of fear & anxiety is needed to fuel our imagination & creativity & drive to succeed at a task..

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Lone Striker

[Spellczech]

Unsure if what you are discussing are symptoms or manifestations TBH...

[Morgan]

9 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Unsure if what you are discussing are symptoms or manifestations TBH...

In the circumstance I referred to, it’s genuine symptoms.

 

She just didn’t want to believe it was happening to her.  A visit to the Doc, a couple of weeks ago, more or less confirmed what we, and her family and friends, had been telling her for years.

 

 

[Day@theraces]

I've had depression and anxiety for a number of years. Some days much better than others. And stomach pain has been a lingering thing throughout. They don't call the stomach the 2nd brain without reason. A happy gut can help make a happy brain. Healthy eating and exercise can be a godsend.

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Many stomach problems can be related to anxiety too . 

Two things I learned from trying to understand this.

1. Synapses from the brain reach into the gut (estimated that our additional cognitive function outwith our brain is equivalent to a cat's brain)
2. Adrenal glands feed into the gut, and adrenaline can damage the gut by altering the microbiome of gut flora or stress causing inflammation/

Anxiety is partly our fight-or-flight mechanism misfiring, we don't need it that much in modern life. It can cause vasoconstriction and shallow breathing (also holding breath due to anxiety will feed back in spiking pulse rate) leading to feeling faint, tight muscles across the chest, pins & needles, etc.

I hope anyone suffering from this gets good help and strategies for managing it so they can lessen its impact on their lives.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Two things I learned from trying to understand this.

1. Synapses from the brain reach into the gut (estimated that our additional cognitive function outwith our brain is equivalent to a cat's brain)
2. Adrenal glands feed into the gut, and adrenaline can damage the gut by altering the microbiome of gut flora or stress causing inflammation/

Anxiety is partly our fight-or-flight mechanism misfiring, we don't need it that much in modern life. It can cause vasoconstriction and shallow breathing (also holding breath due to anxiety will feed back in spiking pulse rate) leading to feeling faint, tight muscles across the chest, pins & needles, etc.

I hope anyone suffering from this gets good help and strategies for managing it so they can lessen its impact on their lives.  

Good explanation 👍 yes we needed the fight / flight years ago to literally help us survive but it’s not really needed much now or when it is used it can be dysfunctional. 

[the posh bit]

4 hours ago, Morgan said:

Thank you, bhb.

 

I am going to email this to her tonight.

 

 

 

Mind and say that you'd never heard of it before until someone you don't know posted it on a football forum after you'd shared her anxiety issues. That's bound to calm her down. 👍

[joondalupjambo]

The use of the net has to be another related symptom, no? You seem to hear of so many folk under the age of 32 (my son's age) that does not have some form of anxiety.  If you count back that is birth dates of circa 1990 onwards and the early 90's was when the net really took off.   A fantastic tool in some hands but a disaster in others.  Just my thoughts.

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

The use of the net has to be another related symptom, no? You seem to hear of so many folk under the age of 32 (my son's age) that does not have some form of anxiety.  If you count back that is birth dates of circa 1990 onwards and the early 90's was when the net really took off.   A fantastic tool in some hands but a disaster in others.  Just my thoughts.

Yes. Plus the expondential rise in " diagnosis" of ADHD and autism. Me thinks its completely over diagnosed.  

[Horatio Caine]

12 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Many stomach problems can be related to anxiety too . 

Reading that made me feel sick...

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

Reading that made me feel sick...

🤒 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[cazzyy]

33 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes. Plus the expondential rise in " diagnosis" of ADHD and autism. Me thinks its completely over diagnosed.  

 

So you think you know better than the experts who after a lengthy examination diagnose ADHD and autism?

Ok then.

[been here before]

16 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

So you think you know better than the experts who after a lengthy examination diagnose ADHD and autism?

Ok then.

 

Just another of James' expert health guides based in nothing more than a 1hr Wednesday afternoon awareness course and google.

 

The way he's set himself up as an expert on all manner of health issues is funny as...

 

 

[Spellczech]

50 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes. Plus the expondential rise in " diagnosis" of ADHD and autism. Me thinks its completely over diagnosed.  

Yep mental health diagnosis is just done by a ticklist of answers to a set of questions. No kid is ever stupid now, it just has mental health issues and people seem to see "diagnosis" as an huge relief as they can now excuse behaviour with a "condition". Also the doctors are effectively the tools of the drug companies by which everyone makes money from these "diagnoses" and the pills to try to calm people's behaviour. 20 years ago an American told me that about >50% of Americans were on some sort of behaviour altering pill - I expect we are getting towards that ourselves now...

[Spellczech]

21 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

So you think you know better than the experts who after a lengthy examination diagnose ADHD and autism?

Ok then.

By "examination" you mean asking the rote questions from the big book of mental health diagnosis and tickboxing the answers?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Yep mental health diagnosis is just done by a ticklist of answers to a set of questions. No kid is ever stupid now, it just has mental health issues and people seem to see "diagnosis" as an huge relief as they can now excuse behaviour with a "condition". Also the doctors are effectively the tools of the drug companies by which everyone makes money from these "diagnoses" and the pills to try to calm people's behaviour. 20 years ago an American told me that about >50% of Americans were on some sort of behaviour altering pill - I expect we are getting towards that ourselves now...

and they dont take into account any of the parenting these kids have had since they were babies ,  Not at all.  Most pyscholgigsts argue that the rule of good parenting is pivitol in child development and behaviours. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

By "examination" you mean asking the rote questions from the big book of mental health diagnosis and tickboxing the answers?

I Ignore him mate. Hes been on and off  this site for years until he gets banned again. 

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

and they dont take into account any of the parenting these kids have had since they were babies ,  Not at all.  Most pyscholgigsts argue that the rule of good parenting is pivitol in child development and behaviours. 

I blame medical dramas which fool people into thinking that doctors are infallible heroes and paragons of virtue. Truth is that many only became doctors because their parents were doctors and they are in it for the money...I know a lot of doctors and many of them are absolute reprobates...I've said this before but I know one who is a sexual pervert and an Edinburgh GP; One who is down south who cheats on his wife all the time and was in front of the GMC for going on a drunken rampage smashing a line of cars (His wife is actually a very good decent woman and also a doctor); and one who was struck off for falsifying research on his CV and last heard of was working in Germany...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Spellczech said:

I blame medical dramas which fool people into thinking that doctors are infallible heroes and paragons of virtue. Truth is that many only became doctors because their parents were doctors and they are in it for the money...I know a lot of doctors and many of them are absolute reprobates...I've said this before but I know one who is a sexual pervert and an Edinburgh GP; One who is down south who cheats on his wife all the time and was in front of the GMC for going on a drunken rampage smashing a line of cars (His wife is actually a very good decent woman and also a doctor); and one who was struck off for falsifying research on his CV and last heard of was working in Germany...

They also have a high rate of alcholism. As you rightly say its a tickbox exercise when evaluating / assessing ADHD and autiism. Maybe if they actually observed parents for a week or so interacting with their children things might fall into place more easily. 

[cazzyy]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

By "examination" you mean asking the rote questions from the big book of mental health diagnosis and tickboxing the answers?

 

There is no "big book" but it's a difficult condition to diagnose so obviously asking questions about a child's behaviours and development happens.

Can you think of a better way?

[the posh bit]

2 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

I’m sure you’re probably already aware of this, but you offer very little to this forum. I would hope this attitude you display is merely a front given the anonymity of the internet and that your interactions with people IRL are more constructive and respectful. 

 

Bolt. 

[cazzyy]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I Ignore him mate. Hes been on and off  this site for years until he gets banned again. 

 

What on earth are you on about? Like most of your posts on here, none of that is true.

You don't seem to like being challenged, that's not healthy on a forum.

I better not challenge your ridiculous claim that parenting is not looked at during the assessment.

Absolutely clueless.

[BlueRiver]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I Ignore him mate. Hes been on and off  this site for years until he gets banned again. 

 

Rightly as its even a live question amongst the medical professionals whether there is overdiagnosis or whether the increase in diagnosis is merely due to more awareness of the conditions. 

 

[BlueRiver]

13 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

There is no "big book" but it's a difficult condition to diagnose so obviously asking questions about a child's behaviours and development happens.

Can you think of a better way?

 

There are big books. They're called DSM-5 which is used mainly in the US or ICD-11 which I believe is mainly used in the UK. 

 

 

[cazzyy]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

There are big books. They're called DSM-5 which is used mainly in the US or ICD-11 which I believe is mainly used in the UK. 

 

 

 

Not until 2026.

[BlueRiver]

13 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Not until 2026.

 

So the previous versions then? Unless you're saying ICD-10 isn't used within the NHS then I'll concede. But I don't believe that's the case. 

 

There are though big books. 

[Spellczech]

47 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

There is no "big book" but it's a difficult condition to diagnose so obviously asking questions about a child's behaviours and development happens.

Can you think of a better way?

Do your research - there is. Probably computerised now though.

[Morgan]

13 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

Mind and say that you'd never heard of it before until someone you don't know posted it on a football forum after you'd shared her anxiety issues. That's bound to calm her down. 👍

What, exactly, is your problem?

 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

13 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Two things I learned from trying to understand this.

1. Synapses from the brain reach into the gut (estimated that our additional cognitive function outwith our brain is equivalent to a cat's brain)
2. Adrenal glands feed into the gut, and adrenaline can damage the gut by altering the microbiome of gut flora or stress causing inflammation/

Anxiety is partly our fight-or-flight mechanism misfiring, we don't need it that much in modern life. It can cause vasoconstriction and shallow breathing (also holding breath due to anxiety will feed back in spiking pulse rate) leading to feeling faint, tight muscles across the chest, pins & needles, etc.

I hope anyone suffering from this gets good help and strategies for managing it so they can lessen its impact on their lives.  

I've started reading a bit and listening to experts about the links between brain function and the make up and health of our gut microbiome. Too much processed sugar and not enough resistant starch reaching the lower intestinal track seems to be a problem as the microbiome are not getting enough of what they require to keep healthy. 

Two ways I have read to improve matters is to cook and refrigerate potatoes and sweet potatoes especially, along with brown rice as the compounds in the starch change to resistant starch which in turn feeds the gut bacteria. It also reduces the carbs in these food and potential for blood sugar spikes which can lead to low mood when there is a sudden drop in blood sugar levels. The other is to include fermented foods like Korean Kimchi in the diet which boost the diversity of the gut bacteria.  

[the posh bit]

57 minutes ago, Morgan said:

What, exactly, is your problem?

 

 

 

Afternoon pal. 😊

[the posh bit]

1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said:

 

You appear to be struggling, bud. Seek help. Lashing out on internet forums isn’t helping you. 

 

I'm not the one who's lashing out. 

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

It’s odd, isn’t it. I started a thread looking for any recommendations for a city I’ll be travelling to and he/she jumped in, feet first, to criticise doing so. 
 

Now you’ve posted a thread, which some people may find useful or relatable, and he/she is all over it with troll-style comments. 
 

The more I read his posts the less I care for him/her. This is tempered, of course, by the likelihood that he/she is going through something of an emotional crisis in his/her life and could actually do with our support. 

 

Yes, it's strange.

 

He/she is on here (in my opinion anyway) to do nothing but cause bother and troll people.  It is exactly the same style that his/her other usernames portray too.

 

He/she has, in the past few minutes, referred to me as 'pal'. Strange, because I have never, to my knowledge, met this character. This in itself is a sign of someone not being in full control of their faculties and therefore, as you allude to, perhaps need our support rather than derision.

 

 

 

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Sure thing. I’ve finally figured out why people use the ignore function on here. At least the other trolls are some way entertaining. You’re a screaming technicolour advert of unimaginative trolling or someone who really ought to have to pass some kind of aptitude test before being given electronic gadgets and devices. 

 

He/she is posh or comes from a 'bit' that is classy though, so all is good.  

 

[the posh bit]

22 minutes ago, the posh bit said:

 

I'm not the one who's lashing out. 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Sure thing. I’ve finally figured out why people use the ignore function on here. At least the other trolls are some way entertaining. You’re a screaming technicolour advert of unimaginative trolling or someone who really ought to have to pass some kind of aptitude test before being given electronic gadgets and devices. 

 

See, told you. 😊👍

[the posh bit]

10 minutes ago, Morgan said:

 

Yes, it's strange.

 

He/she is on here (in my opinion anyway) to do nothing but cause bother and troll people.  It is exactly the same style that his/her other usernames portray too.

 

He/she has, in the past few minutes, referred to me as 'pal'. Strange, because I have never, to my knowledge, met this character. This in itself is a sign of someone not being in full control of their faculties and therefore, as you allude to, perhaps need our support rather than derision.

 

 

 

 

I hope you're not thinking about siding with JD, pal? 

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, the posh bit said:

 

I hope you're not thinking about siding with JD, pal? 

Why do you 'hope' that?

[GinRummy]

Anxiety is a horrible thing. Probably different for different people but even when things were going well in life I’d lie in my bed thinking up things to worry about. My mother was the same, getting worked up about something that might happen then in reality didn’t happen. Hard to explain it but it can really take over your life if it gets a hold of you. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Anxiety is a horrible thing. Probably different for different people but even when things were going well in life I’d lie in my bed thinking up things to worry about. My mother was the same, getting worked up about something that might happen then in reality didn’t happen. Hard to explain it but it can really take over your life if it gets a hold of you. 

So true. " worrying about the day youll never see" really 

[the posh bit]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Anxiety is a horrible thing. Probably different for different people but even when things were going well in life I’d lie in my bed thinking up things to worry about. My mother was the same, getting worked up about something that might happen then in reality didn’t happen. Hard to explain it but it can really take over your life if it gets a hold of you. 

 

Finding time for yourself to live in the here-and-now is important, but very difficult. 

 

Know someone who finds the 3-3-3 rule useful and does these mad deep breathing techniques that are something to see, swears by it though.