*** Official Motherwell Vs Heart of Midlothian Match Thread ***

[Wee Mikey]

1 hour ago, Elmo said:

All the *****’s  that has us wanting kettlewell and Robinson in as manager a few weeks ago are nowhere  to be seen on this thread 

 

Could they be one and the same who previously were barracking for Tommy Wright? 🤭

[briever]

16 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Only thanks to bagging a lift from an unlikely away match attendee all the way to Hermiston Gait whereupon a tram came immediately. Must've saved at least 2 hours versus the double bus journey.

 

What, with that and a victory?

 

A very happy away day indeed.

 

Roll on Kilmarnock to witness another away win and stock up on their yummy Empire biscuits

 

German Biscuits 😉

[Wee Mikey]

16 minutes ago, briever said:

German Biscuits 😉

 

Funnily enough, I posted two of those to a German Hearts fan as something of a novelty. Approx 0.24 Kg ... and it cost £9.40.

 

But, at least they were appreciated. 😋

Edited November 11, 2023 by Wee Mikey
Weight confusion.

[jamboinglasgow]

A much better performance and Motherwell were lucky we didn't score 4 or 5 in that game.

 

I just dont understand how that first one was not a penalty (or at the very least a foul on the edge of the box.) A high boot is a high boot, regardless if it makes contact or not (though it did in this case.) The fact VAR were telling the ref to look at the monitor (which usually means "we think it should be a penalty") and the ref decides to not change decision is baffling. The second penalty was one, though I have to think the ref thought Boyce fouled the Motherwell player (even though he didn't.)

 

I do think that while performances have not been the best, outwith the Old Firm games, since Naismith was announced as manager, we have played 7 games, won 5, drawn 1 and lost 1. Had we not had that poor set of results before he was appointed, I do think things with him would be looked at differently. Not saying everything is fine, the pressure is still there and the team needs to perform and build on this, but with more players coming back things could be more positive.

[alicante jambo]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

That was the 4th away game in a row that we've scored first 👍👍

 

Wee correction from earlier 👍

Cheers bud nice stat btw.

[Mikey1874]

Game on Sportscene now. BBC Scotland.

[briever]

Just now, jamboinglasgow said:

A much better performance and Motherwell were lucky we didn't score 4 or 5 in that game.

 

I just dont understand how that first one was not a penalty (or at the very least a foul on the edge of the box.) A high boot is a high boot, regardless if it makes contact or not (though it did in this case.) The fact VAR were telling the ref to look at the monitor (which usually means "we think it should be a penalty") and the ref decides to not change decision is baffling. The second penalty was one, though I have to think the ref thought Boyce fouled the Motherwell player (even though he didn't.)

 

I do think that while performances have not been the best, outwith the Old Firm games, since Naismith was announced as manager, we have played 7 games, won 5, drawn 1 and lost 1. Had we not had that poor set of results before he was appointed, I do think things with him would be looked at differently. Not saying everything is fine, the pressure is still there and the team needs to perform and build on this, but with more players coming back things could be more positive.

 

You mean since we were knocked out of Europe 🙄

[Wee Mikey]

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yeah still pics are often inconclusive but I’ve seen it live too and astonishing it wasn’t a penalty.  I also think if the ref’s on field decision was a penalty there is no way VAR could have overturned it. Refs too afraid of taking responsibility to make a decision now and relying on VAR to bail them out. 

 

From behind the goals, it looked to me like the ref, whistle to his lips, was on the verge of awarding the Shankland non-pen only to be waved at furiously by the assistant ref.

 

I'll have to see that 'un on replay, but, see if there was no off-side? Yet again, you'd have to question what on earth was going on in the VAR room.

[vladisacoward]

Just seen the Boyce penalty or non penalty on tv. It’s not a pen in my opinion. I’d be raging if that was given against us. Having said that, you can guarantee the bigot brothers would get that every day of the week and a contact like that will result in many pens being given so I can understand the frustration.

 

What isn’t up for debate is Boyce making an absolute Jeremy Hunt of himself rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Should be utterly embarrassed at himself for that. Woeful stuff at best.

[colinmorewasgash]

Nothing to see unless you play for old firm. Put mortgage on it they wd havd got it no matter if he goes down easily. Ref from mwell and clancy no surprise.

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, vladisacoward said:

Just seen the Boyce penalty or non penalty on tv. It’s not a pen in my opinion. I’d be raging if that was given against us. Having said that, you can guarantee the bigot brothers would get that every day of the week and a contact like that will result in many pens being given so I can understand the frustration.

 

What isn’t up for debate is Boyce making an absolute Jeremy Hunt of himself rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Should be utterly embarrassed at himself for that. Woeful stuff at best.

It’s a stonewall penalty. Boyce is moving towards the ball and the defenders boot prevents him going any further because he kicks Boyce. It’s not just a penalty to rangers or Celtic it’s a penalty to anyone in the league except us. 

[Sooks]

We controlled the game from start to finish . For an away performance that was really good , especially against an opponent we have struggled with at Firpark

 

Well done the management , coaching and playing teams

[colinmorewasgash]

Bobby Madden reckons Liam Boyce should have had a penalty for Hearts at Motherwell - but still agreed the striker was an "absolute disgrace" for the way he went down. Another fud getting job at daily weege.

[Archie White]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It’s a stonewall penalty. Boyce is moving towards the ball and the defenders boot prevents him going any further because he kicks Boyce. It’s not just a penalty to rangers or Celtic it’s a penalty to anyone in the league except us. 

I think it's clear that if Boyce hadn't been such an arse as to roll around clutching his face when the contact was made on his chest then the ref would have given the penalty. He's seen the acting and that's swayed him in his decision. 

[colinmorewasgash]

Monday it will be those two bookend former refs conroy and roache agreeing with munro big bad hearts wonder who they support lol prob want boyce banned for simulation.

[HMFC 86]

Just now, Archie White said:

I think it's clear that if Boyce hadn't been such an arse as to roll around clutching his face when the contact was made on his chest then the ref would have given the penalty. He's seen the acting and that's swayed him in his decision. 

Being ‘streetwise’ seems to work for players of other clubs, but not for us. Why is that

[Fozzyonthefence]

27 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

From behind the goals, it looked to me like the ref, whistle to his lips, was on the verge of awarding the Shankland non-pen only to be waved at furiously by the assistant ref.

 

I'll have to see that 'un on replay, but, see if there was no off-side? Yet again, you'd have to question what on earth was going on in the VAR room.

It was definitely not offside.  Possibly looking at a foul by Boyce but don’t think it was.  Not sure if the defender maybe got something on the ball or went through Shankland first but the ball did change direction.  I’m not sure but first one was a stonewaller.  And very unusual that VAR told ref to look at it and the arrogant pr1ck didn’t change his mind on the Boyce one.  I was convinced it was going to cost us 2 points but thankfully it didn’t. 

[jamboinglasgow]

15 minutes ago, vladisacoward said:

Just seen the Boyce penalty or non penalty on tv. It’s not a pen in my opinion. I’d be raging if that was given against us. Having said that, you can guarantee the bigot brothers would get that every day of the week and a contact like that will result in many pens being given so I can understand the frustration.

 

What isn’t up for debate is Boyce making an absolute Jeremy Hunt of himself rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Should be utterly embarrassed at himself for that. Woeful stuff at best.

 

I would be raging if that was given against us, but I would raging at our defender for stupidly sticking the foot at chest height of the opposition player. High foot is very clear in football, and you cant just stick your foot that high so close to an opposition player and not be punished.

[HMFC 86]

Just now, colinmorewasgash said:

Monday it will be those two bookend former refs conroy and roache agreeing with munro big bad hearts wonder who they support lol prob want boyce banned for simulation.

Dermot Gallagher will no doubt take the same view against us

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Archie White said:

I think it's clear that if Boyce hadn't been such an arse as to roll around clutching his face when the contact was made on his chest then the ref would have given the penalty. He's seen the acting and that's swayed him in his decision. 

Aye maybe. It’s a penalty though 

[sac]

1 hour ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Only thanks to bagging a lift from an unlikely away match attendee all the way to Hermiston Gait whereupon a tram came immediately. Must've saved at least 2 hours versus the double bus journey.

 

What, with that and a victory?

 

A very happy away day indeed.

 

Roll on Kilmarnock to witness another away win and stock up on their yummy Empire biscuits

 

My Achilles heel, love an empire biscuit 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

Dermot Gallagher will no doubt take the same view against us

 

Nothing to see

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, HMFC 86 said:

Dermot Gallagher will no doubt take the same view against us

 

 

22 minutes ago, vladisacoward said:

Just seen the Boyce penalty or non penalty on tv. It’s not a pen in my opinion. I’d be raging if that was given against us. Having said that, you can guarantee the bigot brothers would get that every day of the week and a contact like that will result in many pens being given so I can understand the frustration.

 

What isn’t up for debate is Boyce making an absolute Jeremy Hunt of himself rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Should be utterly embarrassed at himself for that. Woeful stuff at best.

Aye good one. Can you please explain how this isn’t a foul for dangerous play?  When did the rules change so that a high boot on the chest isn’t a foul?  What was the difference with the Shankland high boot on the half way line that was a foul?  Agree that Boyce overreacted but why not a penalty for the obvious foul and a yellow for Boyce for simulation? It can be both. 
 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Nothing to see

 

 

Drop ball to Netherlands?

[buzzbomb1958]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

How you feeling now, mate?

Still not totally convinced the next 5 games will be the test 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Only thanks to bagging a lift from an unlikely away match attendee all the way to Hermiston Gait whereupon a tram came immediately. Must've saved at least 2 hours versus the double bus journey.

 

What, with that and a victory?

 

A very happy away day indeed.

 

Roll on Kilmarnock to witness another away win and stock up on their yummy Empire biscuits

 

 

:honda_ad_everything_just_works:

[bawheed]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Still lots of questions. Still don't know our best team notably. Is 3 at the back now set. Positives for me are the Nieuwenhof/ Baningime combination could be set. Lowry is working hard, even took a short corner that worked. Rowles continues to improve including coming forward into space. 

 

Still questions about whether Boyce will get back to his best though I think he is being given the chance. We do still seem to lose control when a team attacks quickly. Could Sibbick be the answer at right wing and not just keeping the ball in the corner for 3 minutes at end. Why can Vargas look anonymous. Is Cochrane a liability. 

 

I still think Oda and Tagawa could be the missing links. 

When Toby came on made a huge difference ok you’re just waiting for his next 

brain fart but was very positive today when he came on.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Still not totally convinced the next 5 games will be the test 

 

Fair enough 👍

[soonbe110]

Much better today, even looked like there was a game plan and it largely worked. Players played for the manager today and were up for it. Good starting line up, with great credit to Kingsley playing well, out of position on the right.  Hopefully more progress to come. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

50 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

Cheers bud nice stat btw.

 

Yeah, 4 Away wins, too, including the League Cup, versus 3 entire last Season, so on to the Home form against the jonnies on the 25th 👍

[Hearts1975]

57 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

A much better performance and Motherwell were lucky we didn't score 4 or 5 in that game.

 

I just dont understand how that first one was not a penalty (or at the very least a foul on the edge of the box.) A high boot is a high boot, regardless if it makes contact or not (though it did in this case.) The fact VAR were telling the ref to look at the monitor (which usually means "we think it should be a penalty") and the ref decides to not change decision is baffling. The second penalty was one, though I have to think the ref thought Boyce fouled the Motherwell player (even though he didn't.)

 

I do think that while performances have not been the best, outwith the Old Firm games, since Naismith was announced as manager, we have played 7 games, won 5, drawn 1 and lost 1. Had we not had that poor set of results before he was appointed, I do think things with him would be looked at differently. Not saying everything is fine, the pressure is still there and the team needs to perform and build on this, but with more players coming back things could be more positive.

I absolutely am convinced that the whole fiasco with the head coach, technical director UEFA screen, impacted negatively on results. I'm not saying that Naismith wasn't in charge, but I am saying that the onset of ambiguity, probably more so for the players, had some sort of negative impact. 

 

It's far to polar on here at the minute. Win a game, Naismith is the real deal. Lose a game, get him out the club ..... I would rather we chart his actual progress over actual periods. The jury is still out, but the jury is out for every football manager 

 

I mean, the last week I have read numerous posts on us biting the bullet getting Stephen Robinson in!

 

What would everyone have said if he took us on and went down 4-0 to Dundee ? It would be absolute carnage 

 

2 big things for me with Naisy. 1/ Get the consistency in performances .... Not 1 week on it, and the next week off it. Get that consistency in place 

 

2/ The players. If the players are playing for him then we should see that on the park. If we go week to week, and progress that's what we want and need 

 

Guys like McInnes and Robinson, wouldn't be the saviours a lot of folk think they would be in all honesty 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Hearts1975

[gnasher75]

Boyce penalty. Some pundits are saying he was already going down. That's because of the first foul on him outside the box. The high foot on his chest is a blatant foul so how the ref didn't give a penalty is beyond me. Penalty to Hearts and by the letter of the law a yellow for the Motherwell player and arguably a yellow for Boyce for simulation.

 

Shankland penalty. This is a stonewaller. Clearly no offside with the ball in to the box and Boyce doesn't touch it so Shankland can't be offside. Boyce may have pushed his marker but the contact is minimal and play eventually restarts with a goal kick so that foul isn't given. Shankland is clearly taken from behind when in possession. Penalty to Hearts, yellow card for defender.

 

Even with VAR, ref got both decisions wrong.

[Wee Mikey]

14 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Still not totally convinced the next 5 games will be the test 

 

It's always the next x-number of games, though, isn't it? I suspect a wee bit of goal-post shifting.

 

Why not the next 10 games and see where we are then? In other words, after 2 full rounds of fixtures.

 

Your arbitrary 5 includes 2 v Celtic and The Rangers.

 

If we prevail v St J, Killie, and Aberdeen, but get horsed by the gruesome twosome? That's but one possibility.

 

What outcome would convince you?

Edited November 11, 2023 by Wee Mikey

[jamboinglasgow]

10 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I absolutely am convinced that the whole fiasco with the head coach, technical director UEFA screen, impacted negatively on results. I'm not saying that Naismith wasn't in charge, but I am saying that the onset of ambiguity, probably more so for the players, had some sort of negative impact. 

 

It's far to polar on here at the minute. Win a game, Naismith is the real deal. Lose a game, get him out the club ..... I would rather we chart his actual progress over actual periods. The jury is still out, but the jury is out for every football manager 

 

I mean, the last week I have read numerous posts on us biting the bullet getting Stephen Robinson in!

 

What would everyone have said if he took us on and went down 4-0 to Dundee ? It would be absolute carnage 

 

2 big things for me with Naisy. 1/ Get the consistency in performances .... Not 1 week on it, and the next week off it. Get that consistency in place 

 

2/ The players. If the players are playing for him then we should see that on the park. If we go week to week, and progress that's what we want and need 

 

Guys like McInnes and Robinson, wouldn't be the saviours a lot of folk think they would be in all honesty 

 

Would agree with all this.

 

I think there was definitely something that impacted us early on with how we were set up. Whether it was players being confused, or McAvoy taking more control then he was supposed to. There could also be the genuine explanation that players were just not able to play Europe and domestic football at the same time. 

 

The jury with Naismith I would imagine will be out till the end of the season. As you say it can be extremes from week to week depending on results and performance. We could lose or draw against St Johnstone in two weeks and it will be back to get rid of everyone. Though its nice to go into an international break with a win, meaning this place is not in misery during that time.

 

Would agree about consistent performances and players. A poster on another thread suggested there will upheaval in January and I can see it happening, players who are not committed or no longer able to contribute as much as they should (can see Halliday and Haring for example, great servants to the club but at the moment just filler on the bench.) Get players fired up, leading and working together, especially experienced talent like Halkett and Gordon when they come back, and it will make a big difference.

 

This game was a big result and hopefully a step in the right direction, but sadly there needs to be more games before we can say one way or another.

[FJT]

I think he’s starting to get a tune out of a side that has obvious frailties. That gives me hope 

[FJT]

Bring back a couple of injured players and strengthen in January, plus continue to gradually improve elements of the play of those we’ve got and we might just see a brighter future with Naismith come the latter part of the season. 🤞

[HMFC01]

1 hour ago, colinmorewasgash said:

Nothing to see unless you play for old firm. Put mortgage on it they wd havd got it no matter if he goes down easily. Ref from mwell and clancy no surprise.

 

You can see Boyces shirt getting stretched toward the stud (s).   It's clearly pulling.   It's so clear I think the referees screen must have been smudged or something.   Idiots, the officials are idiots.   I say that but they know what they're doing alright. 

 

Contact is contact.   I seem to remember from Danillo penalty.  They all said it. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by HMFC01

[sac]

Wait till we start getting decisions from VAR.

[Nathan2012]

I was on Sportsound earlier giving my thoughts about Hearts on the fan element part. I was on at the start😁

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085?i=1000634484902

[Pasquale for King]

Showed the replays at the time to around six guys, even the Hibby said it was a penalty. 

Good performance and win..

[OldGorgie]

4 hours ago, whodanny said:

Ref's an OF fud then. 

Always amazes me that people think match officials are somehow above showing bias. 

[Turkishcap]

Happy with the win end of.

[rudi must stay]

Just now, Turkishcap said:

Happy with the win end of.

 

Have you been thinking about that all evening?

 

Ah it was a win but at 88 minutes he passed back so I'll change my opinion 

[DesertDawg]

59 minutes ago, Brick Tamland said:

Watching the highlights on sportscene on iPlayer- both 100% stonewall penalties absolutely no doubt whatsoever. 
David Munro is a lickspittle wanchor 

 

No surprise here.  The SPFL highlights don’t show the two clear penalties that the ref and VAR conspired to get wrong.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0GeYTmMmVo

 

[H2]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Got to give something for that whether inside or outside the box. It may just have been the latter but how can the ref not see a foul? 

The white boot against the white shirt makes it such a difficult decision. It is in the box, the contact is in the box.

[Unknown user]

Just now, H2 said:

The white boot against the white shirt makes it such a difficult decision. It is in the box, the contact is in the box.

 

The way I see it, whether he makes contact or not it's a high boot, showing studs, and that's a foul anywhere on the pitch.

[H2]

9 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

The way I see it, whether he makes contact or not it's a high boot, showing studs, and that's a foul anywhere on the pitch.

Correct, and a red card for serious dangerous play.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

5 hours ago, Nathan2012 said:

I was on Sportsound earlier giving my thoughts about Hearts on the fan element part. I was on at the start😁

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085?i=1000634484902

 

Yeah, 7 games 2 wins 5h1te... boring

[No Idle Talk]

Seen a Celtic fan on Facebook criticising the fact that Hearts didn't sell out the full stand at Motherwell yesterday.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm fairly easily triggered when OF fans slag my team.

 

Honest question. If Celtic hadn't won the league for 63 YEARS and were sitting mid table, would they sell out that stand at Motherwell? WOULD THEY ****.

 

I really hate these bar stewards. They are so arrogant and lacking in self awareness it is frightening. If they walked a couple of seasons in our shoes their fans would disappear like snow off a dyke!

[John Findlay]

3 hours ago, No Idle Talk said:

Seen a Celtic fan on Facebook criticising the fact that Hearts didn't sell out the full stand at Motherwell yesterday.

 

Not gonna lie, I'm fairly easily triggered when OF fans slag my team.

 

Honest question. If Celtic hadn't won the league for 63 YEARS and were sitting mid table, would they sell out that stand at Motherwell? WOULD THEY ****.

 

I really hate these bar stewards. They are so arrogant and lacking in self awareness it is frightening. If they walked a couple of seasons in our shoes their fans would disappear like snow off a dyke!

Ask them about their huge crowds pre Fergus McCann.