The timing of the share issue

[BobbyJenkins]

Thanks - I was waiting for someone more intelligent to explain things to me. I now realise that the whole thing is a complete con - probably best for me to go to bed and cry myself to sleep. It must be quite satisfying being so much smarter than anyone else on the planet - well done

 

That is the reindeer in a nutshell. I salute you.

 

Prancer why do you feel so angry about Hearts all of the time?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

That is the reindeer in a nutshell. I salute you.

 

Prancer why do you feel so angry about Hearts all of the time?

 

I don't know if he actually does. I think he just needs to seek attention. Bless!

[merseyjambo]

Your second point is simply wrong. We were buried by Robinson : Vlad saved our bacon and like him or loath him ( I tend towards loathing currently) he has done more for the club than Robinson ever could have. Still a long way to go though, obviously.

 

 

What exactly has Vlad saved us from and what exactly has he done for the club please can someone tell me?

 

While I am no lover of CPR, all I can see is we've exchanged one financial mess for another. CPR got is almost selling the family silver trying to compete with the OF and build on the cup success, Vlad put his pennies in early then when he needed to build on success, he dismantled it. Both have got us into financial problems. Under CPR the manager was his own man and could drop the underperforming (Levien - Wagethieves incident), under Vlad, the manager has no aparent autonomy.

 

The only thing Vlad has done is kept us at Tynecastle. In the long run, whether that was a good or a bad thing, who knows but lets not run away with the idea hes some form of saviour because hes not.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What exactly has Vlad saved us from and what exactly has he done for the club please can someone tell me?

 

While I am no lover of CPR, all I can see is we've exchanged one financial mess for another. CPR got is almost selling the family silver trying to compete with the OF and build on the cup success, Vlad put his pennies in early then when he needed to build on success, he dismantled it. Both have got us into financial problems. Under CPR the manager was his own man and could drop the underperforming (Levien - Wagethieves incident), under Vlad, the manager has no aparent autonomy.

 

The only thing Vlad has done is kept us at Tynecastle. In the long run, whether that was a good or a bad thing, who knows but lets not run away with the idea hes some form of saviour because hes not.

 

If you argue that he didn't "save" the club (and it's a fair point), then you must also agree that under his ownership we had our highest league placing for 14 years and won a trophy for the first time in eight years as well.

 

It may be a truism but no one would care about this issue if we were being as successful as that season. Obviously, we aren't, thanks primarily to his meddling.

[Tom Heaney]

 

Will we be any further forward this time next year? I suspect not

 

On what front? If its on the playing side, league position etc then I say.....Wanna Bet?

[Coco]

On reflection I think there are 3 interesting things about the debt for equity swap.

 

1) It relieves some of the obvious cash flow problems at Hearts.

2) Capitalising the losses is good financial punishment for UBIG for their cavalier running of Hearts - they would clearly never ever get the value back unless there were a succession of Craig Gordons. It would make it easier for a prospective buyer of Hearts.

3) But I think that the most interesting factor is the effect on Ukio Bankas (where the share price is tumbling). They are not directly affected as this swap is for UBIG debt. But Ukio have a big exposure to Hearts - a negative net worth institution. UBIG taking the pain on the capitalised losses might mean that Hearts return to positive net worth. And that might mean that Ukio Bankas have to take less of a provision, or indeed might be able to write up Hearts debt!

[letsmakesomenoise]

While the club is under his ownership it doesnt have any affect day to day

 

This is not really true.

 

At the moment we are paying UKIO interest on this debt. This in effect means that our running costs - year on year - are more than just wages. If the running costs are more than the income (from the likes of us, TV etc) the debt goes up.

 

Reducing the debt means Hearts pay less interest (about half a mill I believe) and moves us closer to being able to break even. The other reason Vlad is shipping out the high earning wage thiefs!

[adayinmay]

On reflection I think there are 3 interesting things about the debt for equity swap.

 

1) It relieves some of the obvious cash flow problems at Hearts.

2) Capitalising the losses is good financial punishment for UBIG for their cavalier running of Hearts - they would clearly never ever get the value back unless there were a succession of Craig Gordons. It would make it easier for a prospective buyer of Hearts.

3) But I think that the most interesting factor is the effect on Ukio Bankas (where the share price is tumbling). They are not directly affected as this swap is for UBIG debt. But Ukio have a big exposure to Hearts - a negative net worth institution. UBIG taking the pain on the capitalised losses might mean that Hearts return to positive net worth. And that might mean that Ukio Bankas have to take less of a provision, or indeed might be able to write up Hearts debt!

Point number 3 is very interesting. I hadn't realized the UKIO share price was falling so, but I guess thats the same with most banks at the moment. It certainly would explain the timing but not the amount. If UKIO were trying to rid themselves of exposure to debt then why not wipe more than ?12m off through share issues? Are there rules preventing this?

 

VR wiping ?12m off is a good thing in the short term from a PR point of view and it does help ease cash flow but I won't feel good about Hearts finances until I see ALL the transfer, TV, Ticket, advertising, merchandise and sponsor money accounted for in Hearts accounts and not UBIG's. I'll reserve my joy until I see this and see Income exceed expenses.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Point number 3 is very interesting. I hadn't realized the UKIO share price was falling so, but I guess thats the same with most banks at the moment. It certainly would explain the timing but not the amount. If UKIO were trying to rid themselves of exposure to debt then why not wipe more than ?12m off through share issues? Are there rules preventing this?

 

VR wiping ?12m off is a good thing in the short term from a PR point of view and it does help ease cash flow but I won't feel good about Hearts finances until I see ALL the transfer, TV, Ticket, advertising, merchandise and sponsor money accounted for in Hearts accounts and not UBIG's. I'll reserve my joy until I see this and see Income exceed expenses.

 

I think someone compared there share price fall with other banks in an earlier thread and found that in comparison with other banks large and small its share price stood up as not to bad.

Ukios in there own site say this on half year profits

 

Ūkio bankas 2008 half-year profit ? LTL 50.6 million

 

2008 07 10

 

During the 1st half of 2008 Ūkio bankas earned LTL 50.6 million in non-audited net profit, which is 1.6 percent more compared to the same period of 2007 (LTL 49.8 million).

 

?The first half-year result shows that we can seek the set ambitious annual targets. Next half-year we will actively work in developing the existing and creating new banking services by paying still greater attention to client service quality and expanding the network of our territorial sub-divisions all over Lithuania,? Edita Karpavičienė, chairwoman of Ūkio bankas Board, said.

 

"During the 1st half-year of 2008 Ūkio bankas assets grew by LTL 205 million or 5 percent and at the end of the period amounted to LTL 4.22 billion. During six months of 2008, the Bank?s portfolio of LCs and deposits increased 7 percent, i. e. from LTL 2.73 to 2.94 billion, during six months of the year the Bank?s loan portfolio in the net value rose 13 percent from LTL 2.36 billion to LTL 2.68 billion. During the first six months of 2008, the number of the Bank?s active clients jumped by 10,900 showing a 9 percent increase."

 

The have also been admitted to the lithuanian branch of the british chamber of commerce .

Yep they are a small bank but i would say are holding on in this so often said difficult times.

[buzzbomb]

Bore Off.

[269miles]

What exactly has Vlad saved us from and what exactly has he done for the club please can someone tell me?

 

While I am no lover of CPR, all I can see is we've exchanged one financial mess for another. CPR got is almost selling the family silver trying to compete with the OF and build on the cup success, Vlad put his pennies in early then when he needed to build on success, he dismantled it. Both have got us into financial problems. Under CPR the manager was his own man and could drop the underperforming (Levien - Wagethieves incident), under Vlad, the manager has no aparent autonomy.

 

The only thing Vlad has done is kept us at Tynecastle. In the long run, whether that was a good or a bad thing, who knows but lets not run away with the idea hes some form of saviour because hes not.

 

You've answered your own question.

The consensus at the time on JKB IIRC was that a move from Tynecastle would be the demise of the club.

 

I don't like the way the club is being run from a footballing perspective but without Vlad we would be at Murrayfield , (debt free, though !!) and playing to miniscule crowds.

[Ben Dover]

You've answered your own question.

The consensus at the time on JKB IIRC was that a move from Tynecastle would be the demise of the club.

 

I don't like the way the club is being run from a footballing perspective but without Vlad we would be at Murrayfield , (debt free, though !!) and playing to miniscule crowds.

 

Not that it matters now but either CPR hadn't bothered to do his sums there or that was just a bare faced lie

To try and win support for the plan he was flinging Nos about like ?50m or so. That gave folk the impression that we could pay off all our debts and have maybe ?25-?30m in the bank. However I believe the payments from Cala ( nearer ?20m in total I think ) would have been staged ( based on them selling some houses I guess ) so certainly in the 1st year we would have been servicing nearly the same level of debt AND playing to sheeet crowds at MF

[Dirk Diggler]

Not that it matters now but either CPR hadn't bothered to do his sums there or that was just a bare faced lie

To try and win support for the plan he was flinging Nos about like ?50m or so. That gave folk the impression that we could pay off all our debts and have maybe ?25-?30m in the bank. However I believe the payments from Cala ( nearer ?20m in total I think ) would have been staged ( based on them selling some houses I guess ) so certainly in the 1st year we would have been servicing nearly the same level of debt AND playing to sheeet crowds at MF

 

I'm led to believe the figure agreed with CALA was somewhere in the 17-18million range.

 

[Coco]

I'm led to believe the figure agreed with CALA was somewhere in the 17-18million range.

 

 

Just think what it would be now?

[Dirk Diggler]

Just think what it would be now?

 

Yep.

 

Thankfully we now don't have the bank demanding their money back.

[Coco]

Yep.

 

Thankfully we now don't have the bank demanding their money back.

 

Not yet

[Dirk Diggler]

Not yet

 

Exactly.

[Coco]

Point number 3 is very interesting. I hadn't realized the UKIO share price was falling so, but I guess thats the same with most banks at the moment. It certainly would explain the timing but not the amount. If UKIO were trying to rid themselves of exposure to debt then why not wipe more than ?12m off through share issues? Are there rules preventing this?

 

It might be that the Gordon money plus the debt for equity swap is just enough to move Hearts into a performing asset category.

 

If I am right on what I am saying it doesn't alter Hearts debt with Ukio Bankas. That would still stand to be paid.

 

But given how weak Hearts' financial shape got in the past year or two, I guess that Ukio Bankas had probably to write down their asset value by taking provisions on that basis. It is a technical point - but Ukio Bankas might actually be able to make a 'profit' if they had previously written down the Hearts debt (as HBOS had) and then can write up the debt if the restructure at Hearts is seen to make Hearts a viable business.

[Ribble]

A bit too convenient for my liking

 

takes them 9 months to issue accounts, 7 months to appoint a manager, yet they can call an EGM for a shares issue in 3/4 weeks conveniently getting it into this years accounts.

 

tbh I cant help but think that vlad has sqaundered all the player cash etc and is hoping he can cover it up with the equity swap

 

as for the equity swap itself it does nothing for hearts and is truly a paper issue, all it means is anyone who would want to buy hearts would need to find an extra 12 mil up front for vlads pockets as opposed to restructuring the debt

 

This coupled with the fact a manager we know nothing about and could well be another yes man, and all is forgiven

 

FFS its nice to see our fans are so easily mugged off

 

Will we be any further forward this time next year? I suspect not

 

Think George Orwell must have been thinking about people on this board when he wrote "A real cynic is someone, who when they smell flowers, thinks of a funeral."