Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, Berra than you said:

Whilst this is a good point to measure success, I think you can't really argue about it with his first spell - Cathro came in and ripped that squad apart unnecessarily imo. 

Second time round, certainly first season back in the top flight we had a clear style that was working, but ultimately Robbie lost that, along with the players and was emptied.

Personally do think both his spells will go down as successful though, and the boards inability to appoint a suitable replacement after him should not count against him.

Neilson 1st season can't complain Championship season was immense great football,player's fit as feck.

 

2nd season something changed in terms of style of play, might that be down to others having influence as DoF in the background who knows.

 Hibs winning the Scottish Cup put a damper on finishing 3rd.

 

But overall yeah a successful season,personally would of liked to have taken that 2nd spot from Aberdeen,but first season back up can't complain to much.

 

I'm not going to mention about him leaving for Mk Don's or his second spell at us,as it might appear me being bias.

 

 

 

 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

Using the Tosh barometer of progress and success, we were 4th when Bob was sacked and we're currently 4th now so its unfair and inaccurate to say we've regressed.

 

Bob was sacked for that.  So it's only fair Naismith is judged to the same standard.

[Bad Religion]

Just now, HopeDiouf said:

 

Bob was sacked for that.  So it's only fair Naismith is judged to the same standard.

 

Sacked for maintaining 4th? Harsh don't you think?

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

You're looking for perfect. We don't get perfect, if we want perfect that involves spending money we don't have. 

 

My understanding was that JJ was a bridging gap between getting rid of Levein and bringing in Savage. 

 

The fact as I see it is that JJ has a lifetime wealth of experience which could be utilised at board level, if nothing else to inform decision making and sense check things on a footballing level. I'm not sure where you stand on the Naismith appointment, but it looks like this was a bad idea from the start. Common sense appears to have gone out of the window despite clear warning signs that he wasn't ready for the job. JJ with his experience could have raised these concerns at board level and at least added a devil's advocate figure. Based on previous actions, I think the board fancied Naisy for the role come hell or highwater. We weren't presented with any other meaningful options and the search looked puddle deep at best. 

 

I think you're getting too bogged down with the idea of out of touch old man with outdated ideas. I'd agree if the role had day to day responsibilities, but it doesn't and wouldn't. Its about getting an experienced footballing voice on the board so big changes can be ran by him for his views not permission  to better inform the decision making process - appointing a "B team coach from the Lowland league without his badges to manage the first team" I think would have raised red flags with him because having done the job he knows the expectation level and might have been able to raise hard to refute concerns about Naismiths experience and competence for the role. 

 

To me, its frankly daft to refuse to utilise a potential resource with such a vast wealth of experience. To date, under Ann Budge she got 2 managerial appointments right in 10 years, and that was Robbie twice - Robbie who was appointed initially by Levein - a football man. I have reservations in this boards ability to spot quality appointments as the Cathro, Levein as his own boss, Stendel and now Naismith appointments attest to, and I think they need more practical football experience on the board. JJ in my view is the best available candidate for a FOH non-exec style role. 

 

If not JJ then who? - The key point here is getting an experienced football head onto the board. 

JJ backed Locke to get the job, hes not the man to be telling the board anything. 
I don’t think the board needs an advisor, the need to go. 
I wanted Naismith as the games at home in particular showed some promise, now we just do what everyone else does. 
Preferably the new board will hire a foreign DoF who will bring modern techniques and ideas, with coaches to suit and players.  
We are currently making more money than ever, we could easily drop 6 players out the squad to make financial room to pay for better staff and blood younger players, would Denholm have been any worse yesterday?

The whole thing needs ripped up and started again. 

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

Sacked for maintaining 4th? Harsh don't you think?

not for me.  maintaining the shite we sacked the previous manager for is not what I was hoping for in the new manager.  And i'd still argue we've regressed since Neilson's tenure.  

[Bongo 1874]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

JJ backed Locke to get the job, hes not the man to be telling the board anything. 
I don’t think the board needs an advisor, the need to go. 
I wanted Naismith as the games at home in particular showed some promise, now we just do what everyone else does. 
Preferably the new board will hire a foreign DoF who will bring modern techniques and ideas, with coaches to suit and players.  
We are currently making more money than ever, we could easily drop 6 players out the squad to make financial room to pay for better staff and blood younger players, would Denholm have been any worse yesterday?

The whole thing needs ripped up and started again. 

Bring Home Takis. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Bring Home Takis. 

He’s probably happy where he is but someone similar 

[Bad Religion]

9 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

not for me.  maintaining the shite we sacked the previous manager for is not what I was hoping for in the new manager.  And i'd still argue we've regressed since Neilson's tenure.  

 

Now now, strict adherence to the happy clappers guide to supporting your football team will tell you that performance doesn't matter.

 

We were fourth when he was appointed and he's maintained 4th up until now. He won a knockout tie in Europe and has us in a league cup semi final which the previous incumbent never managed. Unfair to say we've regressed since Bobs tenure based on that.

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

 

"haven't been great"???? Thats quite the understatement. Neilson was sacked for less.

We lost 6 games on the trot, the team weren’t playing for him, he wasn’t turning it around and he knew he needed to go.

They got that right, they havent got anything right since. 

[OTT]

36 minutes ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Someone with no previous connections to Hearts maybe?

 

How much are they getting paid? 

 

That is part of the point - that we can't get someone external because it will cost money. Someone like JJ who has the experience, time and obvious affinity for the club is as perfect a fit as we can realistically ask for. 

 

As well as that, its not really the sort of role you would want to pay someone to do - essentially a non-exec role to ask football related questions at board meetings and provide experience in that field. 

[Rick Sanchez]

It's probably been said but it was getting on my goat the amount of times we launched it long to Vargas. And also Clark playing it out, knocking it about the back line, back to Clark and hoof.

 

If you're playing it long at least have a game plan for going long. We don't have the players for it IMO but I can understand it.

 

Your likes of McInnes, as seen at Killie, would have his entire team and set up based on the long ball. Every player would know their role.

 

Not saying he's the answer but we're being very badly coached. I've already posted McAvoy and Forrest's playing resume which is shocking btw.

 

We need an entirely new management team and recruitment strategy.

[Luckies1874]

There comes a time whereby you need to push the boat out for such a key position at the club. This is especially true when you routinely **** up the appointments and have a tragic track record. The additional money spent can also be recouped by having a better and more successful side on the park. Yesterday's crowd was an example of lost revenue. The cost of a more high profile manager might be an additional 4 or 500k a year which becomes far less relevant if that manager then doesn't waste the huge open goal opportunity of group stage European football or lose Scottish Cup matches to shite like Hibernian in 2016 and Brora in 2021. It would also be sensible to give more money to a better coach than add 2 mediocre squad players that don't improve us one iota, as has happened so many times over the last decade. 

[Dirty Deeds]

I hope I'm proved wrong but I've seen nothing from Naismith to make me think he's the correct person for the job.

 

The reality is that the board give our managers time so I think we're stuck with him til Christmas.

 

I want the next manager to have a proven track record.

[One five]

5 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

There comes a time whereby you need to push the boat out for such a key position at the club. This is especially true when you routinely **** up the appointments and have a tragic track record. The additional money spent can also be recouped by having a better and more successful side on the park. Yesterday's crowd was an example of lost revenue. The cost of a more high profile manager might be an additional 4 or 500k a year which becomes far less relevant if that manager then doesn't waste the huge open goal opportunity of group stage European football or lose Scottish Cup matches to shite like Hibernian in 2016 and Brora in 2021. It would also be sensible to give more money to a better coach than add 2 mediocre squad players that don't improve us one iota, as has happened so many times over the last decade. 

This 

[Libertarian]

The manner of the loss against Celtic was unacceptable. Hearts should get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of success. Personally I would go for Stephen Robinson of St Mirren

[Leveins Battalion]

6 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

The manner of the loss against Celtic was unacceptable. Hearts should get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of success. Personally I would go for Stephen Robinson of St Mirren

 

I think both McKinnes and Robinson have got an eye for a player,McKinnes made a lot of good signings at Aberdeen before it went stale.

 

 

Robinson plucks guys like Alex Gorrin,Baccus and Cedric Kipre.

 

I would happily take either just now just to get some stability back.

[Boab]

12 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

The manner of the loss against Celtic was unacceptable. Hearts should get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of success. Personally I would go for Stephen Robinson of St Mirren

It’s arguable whether SR has a proven record of success. Got Motherwell to two finals, fair enough, and while St Mirren have had a decent start to the season, his record there isn’t that fantastic. 25 wins in 71 games. 
Think where he is is a good fit for him but unsure about stepping up to Hearts.

[MediumSlim]

I didn't support Naismith originally due to his lack of first team management experience. My preference would have been for someone who had some sort of track record, even if that was in a different league. 

 

The performance against Celtic was depressingly weak and little has made me optimistic this season. However, do we have a better option than Naismith waiting in the wings? If not then getting rid of him could mean two months of Frankie McAvoy, and then another untested manager. We should have a plan for an improvement before firing Naismith. 

[OTT]

25 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

The manner of the loss against Celtic was unacceptable. Hearts should get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of success. Personally I would go for Stephen Robinson of St Mirren

 

I also think Stephen Robinson would be a good shout. 

 

His teams look well drilled, tough to break down and ultimately well coached. 

 

I think any style of football can look good if executed properly. Even hoofball. But its about doing it right, and working with the players you have to have a style which suits everyone and makes recruitment easier on ourselves. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

He’s probably happy where he is but someone similar 

Karipidis? 

[stevie7147]

go for steve clarke

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

The manner of the loss against Celtic was unacceptable. Hearts should get in an experienced manager with a proven track record of success. Personally I would go for Stephen Robinson of St Mirren

What success would that be? He would be our Terry Butcher. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Karipidis? 

My answer was to a post saying bring home Takis, so no.

[Swimmer]

Right now I would take Daniel Stendel back 😲.... At least we would have an atmosphere going with his song!

[Sir PH]

9 minutes ago, stevie7147 said:

go for steve clarke

We need to keep it in the real world.

[ScottieMac17]

Alot of ex English championship managers out of a job... I would go for some of them or a manager from further afield that has not ties to Scottish football and will shake us up. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

SN got the job partly due to talking a good game, the reality is not being shown on the pitch. We are the third biggest club with a huge advantage over the rest in financial terms, and it should be showing in the quality of players we sign. Once again this is not showing on the pitch. The board appear to be more interested in hotels and infrastructure than product on the pitch. This must change as we are first and foremost a football club.

Start by showing some ambition with a proper manager, someone with experience, someone who can motivate players and tell the scouts what type of player he wants and get them quickly integrated into the team.

[Ex member of the SaS]

16 minutes ago, Swimmer said:

Right now I would take Daniel Stendel back 😲.... At least we would have an atmosphere going with his song!

TBF he got bad press due to the timing of his appointment and he could do well with the right backing and players.

[NannyMaroon]

I'm pretty much done. I don't care anymore. 

 

I'm scunnered with football. I detest the board. 

 

I just can't see the point. 

 

I never though I'd stop paying the foundation but I just don't care. If that is what we fought to save the club for it's not worth it. I'm out. 

 

The board is like your pet dog, it wags it's tail, ambles up all friendly, then deposits a pile of vomit on your lap. 

 

Never been this disenchanted since my first game in 1973.

 

The Palestinian flags were the only thing I liked about the whole game. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by NannyMaroon

[Nerja Jambo]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

TBF he got bad press due to the timing of his appointment and he could do well with the right backing and players.

What Stendal showed was that we could entice a foreign coach and one that was with an English Championship club, which some on here think we can't do. He also annoyed some in the Board with his criticism of coaching and fitness. Add in what Billy Davies said about something not right about the club and both have shown that their is indeed something far wrong at the very top.

[pettigrewsstylist]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

We need to decide who our manager will be for rest of season before we spend a penny in January 

Thats my point, no decision till then, unless there is a total collapse.

[Gundermann]

31 minutes ago, Nerja Jambo said:

What Stendal showed was that we could entice a foreign coach and one that was with an English Championship club, which some on here think we can't do. He also annoyed some in the Board with his criticism of coaching and fitness. Add in what Billy Davies said about something not right about the club and both have shown that their is indeed something far wrong at the very top.

 

Being fit and well-coached should be an absolute minimum at any professional club. Long gone are the days of triple-training sessions under Neilson where we cake-walked the Championship despite Sevco and Hibs being in it.

[Cruyff]

The board have bought the jam tomorrow bullshit because he's not got a arabesque out this team never mind a tune. 🤷🏻 and, If it hasn't happened by now then, it's never going to happen. That's the truth. If you cannae see it, you're probably a sandwich short of a picnic tbh. 

It is abysmal to watch. Poorly organised, toothless, slow, ponderous. It's simply dreadful. Get it in the bin. 

 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

50 minutes ago, Nerja Jambo said:

What Stendal showed was that we could entice a foreign coach and one that was with an English Championship club, which some on here think we can't do. He also annoyed some in the Board with his criticism of coaching and fitness. Add in what Billy Davies said about something not right about the club and both have shown that their is indeed something far wrong at the very top.

Billy davies talking about Craig leveins role 5 years ago. That is some leap 🤣 given every single person involved with football is new.

 

not arguing with you btw, not saying change. It required but bringing Billy Davies half decade old views into it is a bit nuts 

 

 

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Billy davies talking about Craig leveins role 5 years ago. That is some leap 🤣 given every single person involved with football is new.

 

not arguing with you btw, not saying change. It required but bringing Billy Davies half decade old views into it is a bit nuts 

 

 

Not really that nuts if you look at the decisions now to the ones back then and try and gauge how different they were/are. Not much, seems to be the argument by some. Think it has some validity.

[Sooks]

I find it really I interesting that some people are shining the spotlight elsewhere . Surely people can see with their own eyes what is wrong . The coaching and team set up is appalling 

 

Neilson had to go but people seem unable to accept that Naismith was a poor appointment . We are totally shit on the pitch and performing brilliantly off it . That should really penetrate peoples brains as to what needs to change . We have seen these players play well so we know they are capable of doing better . So where does that !save us 

 

Can we stop all this Stendel revisionism too , he was utterly c!ueless as well 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Sooks

[GorgieFifeLife]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

How much are they getting paid? 

 

That is part of the point - that we can't get someone external because it will cost money. Someone like JJ who has the experience, time and obvious affinity for the club is as perfect a fit as we can realistically ask for. 

 

As well as that, its not really the sort of role you would want to pay someone to do - essentially a non-exec role to ask football related questions at board meetings and provide experience in that field. 

Whatever the clueless members of the current board get paid.  We need to pay someone with the correct experience to make these decisions not rely on a volunteer.

[GorgieFifeLife]

26 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I find it really I interesting that some people are shining the spotlight elsewhere . Surely people can see with their own eyes what is wrong . The coaching and team set up is appalling 

 

Neilson had to go but people seem unable to accept that Naismith was a poor appointment . We are totally shit on the pitch and performing brilliantly off it . That should really penetrate peoples brains as to what needs to change . We have seen these players play well so we know they are capable of doing better . So where does that !save us 

 

Can we stop all this Stendel revisionism too , he was utterly c!ueless as well 

 

 

Who put Naismith in position?

[Luckies1874]

33 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I find it really I interesting that some people are shining the spotlight elsewhere . Surely people can see with their own eyes what is wrong . The coaching and team set up is appalling 

 

Neilson had to go but people seem unable to accept that Naismith was a poor appointment . We are totally shit on the pitch and performing brilliantly off it . That should really penetrate peoples brains as to what needs to change . We have seen these players play well so we know they are capable of doing better . So where does that !save us 

 

Can we stop all this Stendel revisionism too , he was utterly c!ueless as well 

 

 

 

 

What are the brilliant things we are doing off the pitch? 

[Jamhammer]

3 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Using the Tosh barometer of progress and success, we were 4th when Bob was sacked and we're currently 4th now so its unfair and inaccurate to say we've regressed.

Unless you’ve actually watched us playing 

 

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, GorgieFifeLife said:

Who put Naismith in position?

 

Hearts board . It was a stupid but popular appointment . They should remedy it pronto . Not a reason to get rid however 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

What are the brilliant things we are doing off the pitch? 

 

Our turnover is increasing season on season , the stadium is fantastic too . When we finally get a good manager these things will increase his chances of success 

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

 

Our turnover is increasing season on season , the stadium is fantastic too . When we finally get a good manager these things will increase his chances of success 

 

 

The turnover is largely down to the fans, as usual. The 2nd I agree with but I'd replace the word 'when' with 'if' given all previous evidence. 

[underwaterwoodwelder]

The size of our club and budget also the situation we are in now as a club, we shouldn't or need to settle for an inexperienced manager.

 

I want us to find a experienced manager to take us to the next level in Europe performances and results and winning mentality against all teams including celtic and rangers.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

The size of our club and budget also the situation we are in now as a club, we shouldn't or need to settle for an inexperienced manager.

 

I want us to find a experienced manager to take us to the next level in Europe performances and results and winning mentality against all teams including celtic and rangers.

 

Everybody wants that.

It's just near impossible, if not impossible.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Ivan Drago]

1 hour ago, Nerja Jambo said:

What Stendal showed was that we could entice a foreign coach and one that was with an English Championship club, which some on here think we can't do. He also annoyed some in the Board with his criticism of coaching and fitness. Add in what Billy Davies said about something not right about the club and both have shown that their is indeed something far wrong at the very top.

Unless my memory fails me was there not a fiasco in terms of getting his coaches in? Don’t know if it would have made a difference but sums up the boards attitude to the football side.

[Sooks]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

The turnover is largely down to the fans, as usual. The 2nd I agree with but I'd replace the word 'when' with 'if' given all previous evidence. 

 

if it was just down to fans alone then the turnover would have been this amount for decades . Since the current board have been in place out turnover has gone up every single except for Covid season . I am not happy about the mess on the park but I am happy with how we are performing financially . It feels that way regarding the manager sometimes doesnt it

[Luckies1874]

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

if it was just down to fans alone then the turnover would have been this amount for decades . Since the current board have been in place out turnover has gone up every single except for Covid season . I am not happy about the mess on the park but I am happy with how we are performing financially . It feels that way regarding the manager sometimes doesnt it

 

Not really understanding your point. The fans are the ones buying more ST's, filling hospitality suites and purchasing merchandise thus more revenue. The fans are the ones paying £140k a month into the coffers through the FoH. Yes we have a couple of benefactors due to the hierarchy but I'm not really seeing many "brilliant" things happening off the park. The stadium improvements have consisted of the Main Stand which ran massively over budget and the pitch. I think it has become a common soundbite that we are this well oiled machine off the park and I'm very guilty of it myself, in fact I constantly caveat every comment regards the board to separate off field and on field performance. It's the done thing to keep the defenders of the Jambo realm at bay. In reality I would suggest they are offering a stabilising presence, clearly have business acumen and experience but "brilliant", nah, not seeing that at all. If I'm missing lots of initiatives and innovation that are real difference makers for our club then I'm very open to holding my hands up though. 

[Hectormasson]

21 minutes ago, Ivan Drago said:

Unless my memory fails me was there not a fiasco in terms of getting his coaches in? Don’t know if it would have made a difference but sums up the boards attitude to the football side.

correct👈

[Cruyff]

24 minutes ago, Ivan Drago said:

Unless my memory fails me was there not a fiasco in terms of getting his coaches in? Don’t know if it would have made a difference but sums up the boards attitude to the football side.

It's a good point. They've completely forgotten what it's all about.