Wake up - this week is a true reflection on the SPL versus other leagues

[ToadKiller Dog]

We will in the coming years hit our max growth potential financially within the scottish set up .

What do we do then ?

Should we accept the limits within our game and live with it ?.

 

Clearly no big revolution is coming within the scottish game .

Any change in Scotland the effect would be minimal within the European context 

 

There is a reason why the uglies want to leave as they are basically stuck and can't improve within the scottish game .

 

Too many clubs with too many interests to create any real change .

The real changes needed won't happen .

Even with change growth will still be limited .

Could a league with the top Nordic sides and Irish sides work to increase growth ,would it get accepted ,I have my doubts .

The proposed Belgian/Dutch league failed as the big Dutch clubs don't need it .

 

Can't see much changing but expect another sfa/spfl review to be launched then quietly forgotten.

 

We well are basically stuck where we are for all time 

 

 

 

 

[BelgeJambo]

The true reflection is the current success of the national team.  The majority of the squad do not ply their trade in Scotland.  

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

We will in the coming years hit our max growth potential financially within the scottish set up .

What do we do then ?

Should we accept the limits within our game and live with it ?.

 

Clearly no big revolution is coming within the scottish game .

Any change in Scotland the effect would be minimal within the European context 

 

There is a reason why the uglies want to leave as they are basically stuck and can't improve within the scottish game .

 

Too many clubs with too many interests to create any real change .

The real changes needed won't happen .

Even with change growth will still be limited .

Could a league with the top Nordic sides and Irish sides work to increase growth ,would it get accepted ,I have my doubts .

The proposed Belgian/Dutch league failed as the big Dutch clubs don't need it .

 

Can't see much changing but expect another sfa/spfl review to be launched then quietly forgotten.

 

We well are basically stuck where we are for all time 

 

 

 

 

We should want to leave as well

[ArcticJambo]

19 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

All of the good Scottish players play elsewhere.  And we replace them with sissies from foreign leagues .

mhmm, ... sadly!

[vegas-voss]

Totally not an isolated case.Its decades of this and our league and SFA don't have a clue what to do.I remember Andy Roxburgh ( and he was a dinosaur) spoke of the need for things to change and since then numerous focus groups and consultants etc etc etc with **** all done to get us out of it.

[Sooks]

26 minutes ago, jambo19 said:

One factor for me is the league is set up so we have 4 Old Firm games per season.

 

With a 12 team league there's a lot of clubs sets up to camp in with 1p behind the ball. Clubs fighting to stay in the league do everything they can, sit in, time waste, play for set pieces.

 

Create a bigger league where its 1 game home and away and you might get more clubs opening up to compete IMO.

 

Youth players in Scotland are all coached 1 and 2 touch and technique. But the transition is near impossible to First Team and the style is totally different 

This

[vegas-voss]

20 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

The true reflection is the current success of the national team.  The majority of the squad do not ply their trade in Scotland.  

Aye it's great for the national side that so many youngsters get taken down to England for a pittance but it's shit for our league but who is say these youngsters would become as good with the coaching set ups we have here.

 

How many times have we seen it good youth sides that never really go on to do anything in the game.

[hmfc1984]

Scottish football:

Two big clubs

Too many small clubs 

 

Both prevent meaningful change. 

[boag1874]

1 minute ago, hmfc1984 said:

Scottish football:

Two big clubs

Too many small clubs 

 

Both prevent meaningful change. 

Bingo

[Armageddon]

42% of our league played in Europe.  Mental.

 

Weird how our game is so shit, non-Scottish managers and non-Scottish players.

 

I miss the days of the foreigner rule, that would cap this desire to recruit constantly from Australia.

[Spellczech]

Personally I think the best way to improve technicallly is to play on bigger pitches rather than smaller pitches. A tight pitch can improve close control but it doesn't allow a player to be "head up". If officials are not going to protect skillfull players then small pitches will never lead us to be like Brazil, it will lead us to being Scottish...This is a bit of a problem for us as we cannot make Tynecastle any bigger.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Spellczech

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

But we're the most attended football leagues in Europe as per head of population. Seems to me the fans are doing their bit, but the powers that be can't deliver a product.

[Texaco]

7 minutes ago, hmfc1984 said:

Scottish football:

Two big clubs

Too many small clubs 

 

Both prevent meaningful change. 

The only solution to break the deadlock is one big club in Edinburgh playing at Murrayfield or a equivalent massive new stadium. Quite simply for the good of Scottish football the sooner hibs die the better. 🤣

[Jambo in Bathgate]

2 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

Pointed this out in the McInnes post. Football in Europe is played at pace with crisp passing and ball control. We have a league where survival is the name of the game. We need to increase the league size and play each other home and away. That might be a start.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

53 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

The true reflection is the current success of the national team.  The majority of the squad do not ply their trade in Scotland.  

We have become the Republic of Ireland where you get capped if your Grandad or Granma shagged someone from England. Just listen to the interviews.

[Tokyo Drifter]

Another point: 20 years ago we played Braga of Portugal in the Europa League and beat them 5-3 on aggregate (3-1 at home, 2-2 away). I was at the home leg and I'd never heard of them.

 

Fast forward and they're fairly regular CL contenders. This season they'll line up in the group stages with Real Madrid and Napoli. I've been to Braga, it's a tiny place. So in 20 years they have come on leaps and bounds and we've stayed pretty much where we are.

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Another point: 20 years ago we played Braga of Portugal in the Europa League and beat them 5-3 on aggregate (3-1 at home, 2-2 away). I was at the home leg and I'd never heard of them.

 

Fast forward and they're fairly regular CL contenders. This season they'll line up in the group stages with Real Madrid and Napoli. I've been to Braga, it's a tiny place. So in 20 years they have come on leaps and bounds and we've stayed pretty much where we are.

Owned by Qatar though so loads of cash

[Gokuzo_The_Jambo]

Aberdeen are going to get wrecked in Group G 😅

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, Mr Rabbit said:

There wasn’t any posts when rangers made it to the final saying we’re a lot better than all these other leagues.

 

The truth of the matter is that our league is underpaid with the TV deal but the results in this round have been poor. We could/ should have done better in our home leg, the sheep should have done better against an average Hacken team and Rangers should be able to compete against PSV like they did last season.

 

Our league already has too many people putting it down, fans of clubs who play in it don’t need to add to it IMO.

You have made the key point and that is the TV deal.  It’s an appalling deal partly because Doncaster is a moron but mainly because the product on offer is absolute rubbish in the main.

 

I know there are people on here who say they would rather watch an SPL game over the English PL and that’s fine but to the neutral viewer that would never be the case.  So many of SPL games are played in half empty stadiums with zero atmosphere and/or on awful plastic pitches, the teams play each other 3/4 (more if meet in the cup) times a season ruining any anticipation and as other posters have said two teams win every week and the remainder treat it like a cup tie when playing them with 10 behind the ball waiting to lose.

 

We need to start addressing some of the obvious issues with the ‘product’ a phrase that might irritate people but is what drives higher income from TV and might give us a fighting chance against other European leagues.   

Edited September 1, 2023 by Brighton Jambo

[Fly the Saltire]

2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Who needs to wake up? Everyone knows Scottish football is shite. The biggest problem is that it can't market itself to save its life. It's why if HMFC had disappeared when administration occurred, the only upside was never having to watch another minute of it again.

Scottish football is not shite as we are currently ranked 9th in the EUFA club co-efficient.  POAK were placed in 2nd tier of the Conference Group draw and were expected to beat Hearts given their European history, The only shocking result this week was Aberdeen's failure to beat Haken .

However the Scandinavian countries are halfway through their league campaign so do have that fitness advantage, They also have much better TV deals.  But Summer football won't make much difference as Republic of Ireland clubs always fail to make group stages in Europe.  Some want to increase the number of top flight clubs but that means less TV money plus fewer meaningful games for spectators and Switzerland has just changed to the Scottish league model of 12 clubs.

 

Yes we need more skilful players and coaching is getting better but more players need to be utterly dedicated and cut out the bevvy etc.  However as soon as the real talent gets to 16 most are lured down south with bigger wages and incentives to parents etc.

 

There is no magic bullet but allowing B Teams to get promotion up to division One (but not Championship) would help ambitious clubs to develop youngsters and aid rehabilitation of injured first team players . This would be a cheap way to progess.

[OTT]

This is the consequence of having an inept CEO with zero incentive to improve. Doncaster has done an absolutely shocking job, and manages to continually absolve himself of responsibility by blaming the clubs. The SPFL is a corporate entity, not the ****ing UN. This committee mentality needs scrapped and they need to elect a CEO with a very clear mandate to do what he (or she) needs to do to deliver a competitive TV package and a hands off approach from the clubs to allow them to deliver that. Year on year that *******s salary has rose whilst league income hasn't progressed at anywhere close to an appropriate level. The fact the loser is still here and hasn't been head hunted away should tell its own story. If he'd done even remotely close to a half decent job, a club in England would have snatched him away as their CEO. He's a complete imposter that no club chairman or owner would willingly employ to run their affairs. So why is he in charge of the league? Lawwell once described him as a very able guy, well if Doncaster is so good, why did Celtic not replace Lawwell with him? Guy is an inept ***** that is taking us for a ride. 

 

I would like to see a graph of other leagues TV revenues broken down by year alongside the SPFL/SPL. I think it would be interesting to see in graphic form how our deal has virtually only succeeded in treading water whilst other leagues have brokered hugely successive deals - specific comparison with the Scandinavian leagues, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Portugal, Poland, Turkey, Austria and Greece. 

[tokyowalnut]

I was thinking about this last night. 
 

We are currently unhappy with results and are questioning the Hearts management set up and a few people are also questioning the decisions of our board of directors. Surely people at the top of Scottish football, Doncaster et al, should be questioned by the clubs to determine why the overall quality of our game has stagnated (or declined) so much. I’m fed up with hearing about financial disparity and there being no action or anyone being held accountable for this disparity. We never hear from that smug slug of a man, Doncaster. He should be dragged over the coals for the way he has marketed this league in recent years. 
 

It blows my mind that in 2023, with the money we generate as a fan base that we still haven’t signed a number of players for £1million plus. I know we have to work within our means, I’m not suggesting we get ourselves into masses of debt, it’s more the point that so little comes to us through TV, league sponsorship, prize money etc. 

 

I’m ranting now. However, there are  people within our game that should be held to account and they are not. It’s a good laugh seeing Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hibs getting pumped (as I’m sure it’s funny for them when we do) but there is a bigger picture that should be getting addressed. 
 

Deep breath, I’m off to cut the grass!!

 

 

Just read your post, OTT. Bang on.

Edited September 1, 2023 by tokyowalnut
Additional comment

[reaper]

4 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

 

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

 

 

This is the best comparison because PAOK are the 4th best team in Greece and came fourth last season.

 

There are only two solutions. 

 

1. Somehow get Arab billionaires to invest in your league.

2. Start a campaign for your top teams to join the English football pyramid (not sure how many SNP voters would want that).

Edited September 1, 2023 by reaper

[Locky]

4 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Good OP.

 

1 touch and 2 touch football - we need coaches who understand this, promote it, can coach it and improve players.

 

To get better players you need more money, to get more money you need a better TV deal. Please no more Doncaster shite, he merely negotiates what this league is willing to sell.

 

Sky get a poxy 41 games, no wonder our deal is shite, folk moan about the EFL getting so much cash, but they sell 3 times and over the amount of games.

 

Until we are willing to sell our game, probably 3 games a week, and get away from the ideal of 3pm Saturday, we are stuck potless, and have to put up with what the OP describes.

 

Its on the clubs to do this, you are not getting the revenues necessary until you accept it

Twice in the first 10 minutes last night, I recall us getting into a promising situation in PAOK's half with options to pass to, but it was so slow that we were 'pressed' back into our own half and on the back foot. I say pressed, it wasn't exactly intense, they just jogged us back up the park.

 

This week is surely the ringing endorsement that Scottish football NEEDS investment. I mean, we're never going to match the levels of English football and nor would I want to, but it would be refreshing to see our best clubs at least compete against them in one-off matches. Celtic and Rangers would probably give most EPL teams a decent game except the proper top sides, but outwith them, the rest of us would get pasted off the likes of even Brentford and Crystal Palace.

 

Against countries like Greece and Sweden however, we should really be able to hold our own. Countries that aren't all that much bigger than us, and dare I say not as passionate about their football as the Scots. The Greeks are generally very passionate, but outwith the Athens clubs and PAOK and maybe Aris, no club in Greece draws in more than a couple of thousand at games. The Greek average attendance this season so far is 7,000. Compare that to Scotland's 16,000. Even the Swedes only average 10,000 a game. What they do seem to have though is either money to compete, or good investment in infrastructure. Or both. Scottish clubs generally have neither. Most clubs in Scotland are generally self sufficient and the prize money, sponsorship and TV deals that the SPFL bring in are barely a drop in the ocean to their finances. It's a disgrace.

[Cisco1914]

4 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

That’s a lot of words mate but money is the answer..

[Grazor]

The SPL is an outlier in world football for how little teams favour ball circulation. Over time I think this has meant that the SPL has become weaker compared to leagues in countries with similar population

 

Consider the total number of aggregate passes per match excluding rangers/celtic in the last 5 games in the spl compared to comparable leagues

 

St Mirren v Aberdeen: 422

Hibs v Liv 553

Motherwell v Hibs 482

Hearts v Kil 548

St Mirren v Dundee 417

 

for an average of 484

 

Compare this to what should be comparable leagues, excluding the top two teams in each case to make a fair comparison

Eliteserian in norway: 709.8,

Allsvenskan in Sweden: 772.4

Denmark: 732.4

Swiss super league 579.2

English Championship: 817.2

League 1 in England: 706.2

 

Nearly every league that should be competitive with the SPL has almost twice as much ball circulation. It is possible that the SPL might be an outlier for good reasons and this is a path for success. However, I doubt it and I suspect if Scotland doesn't want to fall further behind its potential there needs to be a big overhaul in the tactics from youth development right up to professional leagues

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, reaper said:

 

This is the best comparison because PAOK are the 4th best team in Greece and came fourth last season.

 

There are only two solutions. 

 

1. Somehow get Arab billionaires to invest in your league.

2. Start a campaign for your top teams to join the English football pyramid (not sure how many SNP voters would want that).

And also, Scotland (clubs) is ranked 10th and Greece only 19th. This week shows how false our ranking currently is and how we’ve relied on one team to get us up there.  That team is pish again so expect us to go tumbling back down the rankings.
 

You don’t have to be a SNP voter not to want to join the English league, pretty sure those wanting that would be in a small minority.  I’d much rather Rangers and Celtic just ****ed off somewhere to leave us a competitive league. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Fozzyonthefence

[Grazor]

1 hour ago, Rick James said:

Twice in the first 10 minutes last night, I recall us getting into a promising situation in PAOK's half with options to pass to, but it was so slow that we were 'pressed' back into our own half and on the back foot. I say pressed, it wasn't exactly intense, they just jogged us back up the park.

 

This week is surely the ringing endorsement that Scottish football NEEDS investment. I mean, we're never going to match the levels of English football and nor would I want to, but it would be refreshing to see our best clubs at least compete against them in one-off matches. Celtic and Rangers would probably give most EPL teams a decent game except the proper top sides, but outwith them, the rest of us would get pasted off the likes of even Brentford and Crystal Palace.

 

Against countries like Greece and Sweden however, we should really be able to hold our own. Countries that aren't all that much bigger than us, and dare I say not as passionate about their football as the Scots. The Greeks are generally very passionate, but outwith the Athens clubs and PAOK and maybe Aris, no club in Greece draws in more than a couple of thousand at games. The Greek average attendance this season so far is 7,000. Compare that to Scotland's 16,000. Even the Swedes only average 10,000 a game. What they do seem to have though is either money to compete, or good investment in infrastructure. Or both. Scottish clubs generally have neither. Most clubs in Scotland are generally self sufficient and the prize money, sponsorship and TV deals that the SPFL bring in are barely a drop in the ocean to their finances. It's a disgrace.

The issue is that changing the way a team plays means sacrificing results for a season. It is a pretty big change to go from 450 passes aggregate a match to 800 and you would need a fanbase that can tolerate a coach with the vision to pull it off knowing that it might risk relegation in the first season for long term gain

[Spellczech]

4 hours ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

We will in the coming years hit our max growth potential financially within the scottish set up .

What do we do then ?

Should we accept the limits within our game and live with it ?.

 

Clearly no big revolution is coming within the scottish game .

Any change in Scotland the effect would be minimal within the European context 

 

There is a reason why the uglies want to leave as they are basically stuck and can't improve within the scottish game .

 

Too many clubs with too many interests to create any real change .

The real changes needed won't happen .

Even with change growth will still be limited .

Could a league with the top Nordic sides and Irish sides work to increase growth ,would it get accepted ,I have my doubts .

The proposed Belgian/Dutch league failed as the big Dutch clubs don't need it .

 

Can't see much changing but expect another sfa/spfl review to be launched then quietly forgotten.

 

We well are basically stuck where we are for all time 

 

 

 

 

I think it would improve Scottish football technically if we had to start playing Dutch anf Belgian sides, less so if it was Swedish and Norwegian sides. Danes fall somewhere in the middle...

[Dsjambo]

5 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Our players looked far from properly prepared by the preseason, with players out of shape and needing three touches to control a ball.

 

Those working with the players in training for fitness, conditioning and technique appear far fron adequate.

Agreed but the point I was making is in general, there has been an emphasis on educating coaches about using the ball as much as possible in training so players have plenty opportunity to improve their skills. The other point of course is many of our squad are not Scottish so the lack of technique is not only a Scottish problem.

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Dsjambo said:

Agreed but the point I was making is in general, there has been an emphasis on educating coaches about using the ball as much as possible in training so players have plenty opportunity to improve their skills. The other point of course is many of our squad are not Scottish so the lack of technique is not only a Scottish problem.

 

True, but I think that supports my argument that technique isn't being worked on effectively.  Good players need to continually work on their technique or it regresses.

Edited September 1, 2023 by frankblack

[Pasquale for King]

7 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

Spot on, not really sure what the solution is. Foreign coaches and ideas for me, not one club with a foreign manager the length and breath of the country 😱🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?!?! 
A poor tv deal and the game being run for two teamns benefit doesn’t help, until they are struggling nothing will be done..

[Pasquale for King]

53 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I think it would improve Scottish football technically if we had to start playing Dutch anf Belgian sides, less so if it was Swedish and Norwegian sides. Danes fall somewhere in the middle...

Hakken were better technically than Aberdeen and Rosenborg were quicker, stronger and better technically than us. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Grazor said:

The SPL is an outlier in world football for how little teams favour ball circulation. Over time I think this has meant that the SPL has become weaker compared to leagues in countries with similar population

 

Consider the total number of aggregate passes per match excluding rangers/celtic in the last 5 games in the spl compared to comparable leagues

 

St Mirren v Aberdeen: 422

Hibs v Liv 553

Motherwell v Hibs 482

Hearts v Kil 548

St Mirren v Dundee 417

 

for an average of 484

 

Compare this to what should be comparable leagues, excluding the top two teams in each case to make a fair comparison

Eliteserian in norway: 709.8,

Allsvenskan in Sweden: 772.4

Denmark: 732.4

Swiss super league 579.2

English Championship: 817.2

League 1 in England: 706.2

 

Nearly every league that should be competitive with the SPL has almost twice as much ball circulation. It is possible that the SPL might be an outlier for good reasons and this is a path for success. However, I doubt it and I suspect if Scotland doesn't want to fall further behind its potential there needs to be a big overhaul in the tactics from youth development right up to professional leagues

After 4 passes, the voice would come from stand screaming 'get it up the park man, stop pissing about'.

The football going public in Scotland is set in prehistoric times, where they applaud a guy flying into a tackle while they boo a player knocking the ball about in midfield or at back.

They're that thick they done realise the player flying into tackle is doing so because he can't control the ball or is way out of position while the player being booed for passing ball square or at back is doing so because the players in front of him are hiding or can't work out how to move onto space.

It won't change as long as league is so cutthroat and relegation is threat. Need a bigger league of 18 teams 34 games a season, 17 home and 17 away with no ****ing split and no stupid 4 games a season v same teams.

Won't happen though because St Johnstone, St Mirren, Motherwell, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Livingston and the rest want their guaranteed 3 games v Celtic/Rangers at home. That's all they live for, the chance to flog tickets to away supporters to fill their three quarter empty stadium and get Sky to broadcast the inevitable Celtic/rangers win.

If it wasn't for Hearts, I wouldn't watch 1 second of Scottish football. 

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Spot on, not really sure what the solution is. Foreign coaches and ideas for me, not one club with a foreign manager the length and breath of the country 😱🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?!?! 
A poor tv deal and the game being run for two teamns benefit doesn’t help, until they are struggling nothing will be done..

 

Nothing will change with a 10:2 voting structure.  We had a chance when Rangers died and the tribute act was working up the leagues.  Too many small-time west coast clubs are more interested in grabbing cash with 4 home games vs the uglies than improving the product for all.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

After 4 passes, the voice would come from stand screaming 'get it up the park man, stop pissing about'.

The football going public in Scotland is set in prehistoric times, where they applaud a guy flying into a tackle while they boo a player knocking the ball about in midfield or at back.

They're that thick they done realise the player flying into tackle is doing so because he can't control the ball or is way out of position while the player being booed for passing ball square or at back is doing so because the players in front of him are hiding or can't work out how to move onto space.

It won't change as long as league is so cutthroat and relegation is threat. Need a bigger league of 18 teams 34 games a season, 17 home and 17 away with no ****ing split and no stupid 4 games a season v same teams.

Won't happen though because St Johnstone, St Mirren, Motherwell, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Livingston and the rest want their guaranteed 3 games v Celtic/Rangers at home. That's all they live for, the chance to flog tickets to away supporters to fill their three quarter empty stadium and get Sky to broadcast the inevitable Celtic/rangers win.

If it wasn't for Hearts, I wouldn't watch 1 second of Scottish football. 

 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Only Scottish fitbaw could come up with a league where you can play a team 3 game's away and once at home,fair play my arse that's not a level playing field, does UEFA have a view on that?

You can play a team 6 time's in a season, the player's must get bored of that never mind the punters what do they matter it's all about Rangers and Celtic playing against each  other at midday because their fans can't handle their drink 

We need to try something new but there is no bravery from the top to change, there is nothing to lose even for Rangers and Celtic who will also fail to qualify from their groups

These coaching badges aren't worth the hassle in Scotland, coaches get 5 minutes in a job these days and more often the ball is launched back and forwards, where you have to win the battle first is trotted out time and again in the media here

One touch football makes a player think of what he is going to do with the ball before he receives it 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Some good news for scottish football , seems hibs won the European song contest last night going by countless social media nonsense . 

 

[reaper]

4 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

And also, Scotland (clubs) is ranked 10th and Greece only 19th. This week shows how false our ranking currently is and how we’ve relied on one team to get us up there.  That team is pish again so expect us to go tumbling back down the rankings.
 

You don’t have to be a SNP voter not to want to join the English league, pretty sure those wanting that would be in a small minority.  I’d much rather Rangers and Celtic just ****ed off somewhere to leave us a competitive league. 

 

Yea, whenever I asked Londoners about having Scottish teams in the Premiership or championship, they weren't thrilled either..

Edited September 1, 2023 by reaper

[ScandinavianJambo]

10 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

Good post, and sadly true.

[JFK-1]

I don't think it's evidence of anything but that we already knew, other leagues have more money, more money gets you better players and a better general quality of play Let's take a look at the most glaring example of it.

 

hubz valuation on transfermarkt 12.35 million euros

 

Aston Villa valuation 610.5 million. It's almost laughable.

[That thing you do]

11 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

I've watched most of the European qualifying matches involving Scottish clubs.  They have done fine up until this point. But the following is a fact:

 

2nd best in the SPL is leagues below 3rd best in the Eredivisie

3rd best in the SPL is way below the best in Sweden

4th best in the SPL is woefully inferior to the top teams in Greece

5th best in the SPL wouldn't get anywhere near the top 2 Leagues in England.

 

here's another fact, a whacking great percentage of the the players in all there divisions are technically vastly superior to those in the SPL.

 

Watching PSV on Wednesday, every time ANY player got the ball, it was 1-touch and look for a fast paced, crisp pass forward where the receiving player had it under control after a single touch and then moved forward. In our game last night, our backs and midfield constantly rolled the ball backwards or hoofed it up the park. Or their second touch was a tackle. Changing management teams will have zero impact on that because every team in the SPL plays that way - and that is the level of player you get in a global market for the money we have available.

 

Is this just down to money? Partly - but very few people outside our small country are interested in the product, so there will be no more. Is it down to the Ugly's? A big part, because they suck up all the money and any available talent in Scotland. Is it due to our culture and coaching standards? partly but probably less so - but the need to achieve season after season and stay relevant in our own footballing backwater drives most of the behavior.

 

The truth hurts and we got a big dose of it last night. But as usual in a months time it will be forgotten and we will be completely focused on our very poor level domestic game.

Honestly think the fans need to start the revolution up here and have some dialogue between supporters orgs at key clubs and come up with a format 16 teams, 18 teams whatever it is and coordinate shouting/lobbying for a new setup and a new national approach.

 

It isn't impossible to learn from other league what they do and then ensure a best of breed format is put in place for blooding young players and promoting technical approaches.

 

It's in everyone's interests it happens.

Edited September 1, 2023 by That thing you do

[Lone Striker]

10 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Who needs to wake up? Everyone knows Scottish football is shite. The biggest problem is that it can't market itself to save its life. It's why if HMFC had disappeared when administration occurred, the only upside was never having to watch another minute of it again.

imo, it's crap at marketting  itself BECAUSE it's sh1te.      An increasing number of very good young players are realising this too, and going abroad while still in their teens  

 

An absurd paradoxt sums it up for me  - Love Hearts, but Hate  Scottish football.

[stirlo]

What is really noticeable is how there seem to be less and less Scottish players in the Scottish Premiership. Given that we can't compete financially with any team in the top two leagues in England or any team in the top leagues in many European countries, anyone we do bring in from either England or abroad is liable to be second or even third rate (and we've seen many examples of that over the last few seasons). That being the case, I don't know why we don't focus more on the Scottish leagues. It would be much cheaper and those leagues are much less scrutinised by clubs down south. When you think of the numerous players we've signed over the last 20 or 30 years, I'd argue we've had a much higher success rate with players signed from other Scottish clubs than from outside. This is even more so when you exclude the early years of the Romanov period when higher quality foreign players were being brought due to the money being spent.       

[Lone Striker]

7 hours ago, reaper said:

 

This is the best comparison because PAOK are the 4th best team in Greece and came fourth last season.

 

There are only two solutions. 

 

1. Somehow get Arab billionaires to invest in your league.

2. Start a campaign for your top teams to join the English football pyramid (not sure how many SNP voters would want that).

If we're talking about  improving the standard & skillset of Scottish footballers for the long-term, Arab billionaires are not the answer - they'd just take over clubs and spend millions to bring in foreign superstars, meaning less game-time  for Scottish players.

 

imo, if Hearts seriously want to be ambitious at challenging for trophies, then we're  probably going to have to invest in a high-performing manager/coach with experience in Euro leagues like Germany or Spain or Netherlands etc.   Pay the guy 3 or 4 times what we would normally pay a manager, and be prepared to suffer short-term defeats until his methods start to gain traction with players.  Its probably a 2  year project, but it would set a standard for future recruitment and the academy.

[reaper]

7 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

If we're talking about  improving the standard & skillset of Scottish footballers for the long-term, Arab billionaires are not the answer - they'd just take over clubs and spend millions to bring in foreign superstars, meaning less game-time  for Scottish players.

 

imo, if Hearts seriously want to be ambitious at challenging for trophies, then we're  probably going to have to invest in a high-performing manager/coach with experience in Euro leagues like Germany or Spain or Netherlands etc.   Pay the guy 3 or 4 times what we would normally pay a manager, and be prepared to suffer short-term defeats until his methods start to gain traction with players.  Its probably a 2  year project, but it would set a standard for future recruitment and the academy.

 

That is another topic. I was only saying what would make Hearts more powerful,  not what would help Scottish footballers improve.

 

Btw, even if Scottish footballers improve,  there is no guarantee the national team coach will select the best players. A Greek guy called Douvikas scored the most goals in Holland last year. Just signed for Celta. He is young and in form. National coach didn't even pick him and instead picked a washed up Pavlidis..

[Spellczech]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hakken were better technically than Aberdeen and Rosenborg were quicker, stronger and better technically than us. 

DIdn't see Hakken but Rosenborg played like Levein would've loved us to play - fast midfielders and a big lump of a No 9. Levein just never found us a 9 latterly...or direct midfielders...

[Cade]

Also something to note is that the Scotland national team is suddenly doing good things now that most of the team are not drawn from Scottish clubs.

All of Scotland's best players don't play in Scotland.

 

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Grazor said:

The issue is that changing the way a team plays means sacrificing results for a season. It is a pretty big change to go from 450 passes aggregate a match to 800 and you would need a fanbase that can tolerate a coach with the vision to pull it off knowing that it might risk relegation in the first season for long term gain

Not really, just saw a clip of Pep talking about how much easier it is for defenders to win back a 10-15m pass than a 3m one, that probably doubles your passes right away but you need players who want the ball. I don’t see enough of our players demanding the ball. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

DIdn't see Hakken but Rosenborg played like Levein would've loved us to play - fast midfielders and a big lump of a No 9. Levein just never found us a 9 latterly...or direct midfielders...

So he didn’t really do much of a job then? They played football, he never wanted a team to play the ball quickly on the ground.