W5 D4 L5

[Thomaso]

On 28/08/2023 at 22:57, db211833 said:

Hibs x2, Aberdeen, Rangers, Celtic, Rosenborg x2, PAOK.

Not the easiest start 

Exactly

[Agentjambo]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

Exactly

Seemed to miss out St Mirren and Dundee there.

[soonbe110]

41 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

I would say Naismith is getting more out of basically the same set of players than Neilson was getting prior to being sacked. They were absolutely dire for months.

 

We don’t have a midfield so anything is a bit of a bonus at the moment, recruitment has failed the manager again in this window if they don’t sort this out in the next few days. 
 

 

Not defending Neilson but Boyce, Kent, Tagawa, Vargas, Nieuwenhof, Lowry were not available to Neilson in the period  before he was sacked so hardly the same set of players. 

[soonbe110]

21 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Seemed to miss out St Mirren and Dundee there.

And Ross County and Killie and St.Johnstone 

[spirt of 98]

On 28/08/2023 at 20:15, youngy1874 said:

Since Naismith, McAvoy or whoever is in charge has came in our record is 5 wins in 14 competative games in all competitions W5 D4 L5

 

Now prior to Neilson being sacked his last 14 games in all competitions was W6 D1 L7 so he actually won more, granted he lost more also.

 

But it begs the question, are we any better off with our new management team?

 

Stats suggest not really.

Would suggest that Naismith games have been in top 6 meaning playing the best 5 teams and games in Europe. 
 

Not a good comparison. Let compare at the end of the season. Till then STFU. 

[McCrae]

1 hour ago, Agentjambo said:

Based on?

The competition.

[1971fozzy]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Not defending Neilson but Boyce, Kent, Tagawa, Vargas, Nieuwenhof, Lowry were not available to Neilson in the period  before he was sacked so hardly the same set of players. 

neilson would not of had a fekin clue what to do  with  these attacking players let’s face it. We just need to hope the 2 in charge do.

[No Idle Talk]

Let's just say if our league record after fourteen matches is W5 D4 L5 they will be hearing about it and they will be under pressure. 

 

If we turn in another shoddy performance on Sunday and lose to Aberdeen in two weeks time they might be under pressure even sooner than that. 

[meister]

On 28/08/2023 at 20:15, youngy1874 said:

Since Naismith, McAvoy or whoever is in charge has came in our record is 5 wins in 14 competative games in all competitions W5 D4 L5

 

Now prior to Neilson being sacked his last 14 games in all competitions was W6 D1 L7 so he actually won more, granted he lost more also.

 

But it begs the question, are we any better off with our new management team?

 

Stats suggest not really.

 

If we're simplifying things this much then, no we are not better off. But we're bit worse off either.

 

Both management teams got 19 points.

[4marsbars]

We've played 4 competitive games in Scotland so far this season and have conceded only one (daft) goal. That's something. 

[alicante jambo]

13 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Exactly

Ffs when you look at it like that not been easy for sure.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

On 29/08/2023 at 00:15, karipidis said:

Naismiths fixtures - Hibs x2, Rangers, Celtic, Rosenborg x2, PAOK, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Ross County, St Johnstone, Partick, Killie, Dundee

 

good performances - Partick, Aberdeen, Ross County, Rosenborg (H)

 

acceptable performances - Hibs (H), St Johnstone, Rangers, St Mirren

 

Played well enough but didn’t get result - Celtic, PAOK

 

Poor performances - Dundee, Killie, Hibs (a), Rosenborg (a)

 

4 out of 14 poor performances. Hibs was his first game and Rosenborg we won the tie. Can understand the concerns with yesterday but needs a couple more months before we can fully judge. 

 

The St Johnstone and St Mirren performances weren’t really acceptable. We just didn’t get beat.
 

 

13 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Are the new management not allowed time like who went before them?

 

Yep they are. Things were supposed to get markedly better after they had had a full pre-season with him but they have gone backwards.

[karipidis]

6 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

 

The St Johnstone and St Mirren performances weren’t really acceptable. We just didn’t get beat.
 

 

 

Yep they are. Things were supposed to get markedly better after they had had a full pre-season with him but they have gone backwards.

St Johnstone was fine. We won 2-0. We weren't great, first half especially, but we more than dominated the second half. St Mirren fair enough. 

[Saint Jambo]

47 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

We've played 4 competitive games in Scotland so far this season and have conceded only one (daft) goal. That's something. 

 

It is. Yet looking through threads on here the conversation is largely focussed on the sitting midfielders and the weakness of the entire defence.

[Boris]

On 28/08/2023 at 22:15, youngy1874 said:

Since Naismith, McAvoy or whoever is in charge has came in our record is 5 wins in 14 competative games in all competitions W5 D4 L5

 

Now prior to Neilson being sacked his last 14 games in all competitions was W6 D1 L7 so he actually won more, granted he lost more also.

 

But it begs the question, are we any better off with our new management team?

 

Stats suggest not really.

Stats suggest an equal point haul of 19, but whilst our win ratio has reduced so has our loss ratio. 

 

Imo, comparison isn't really that useful, for many of the reasons already mentioned.

 

Regards Naismith, I supported his appointment, as I supported Neilsons dismissal.  With no obvious other candidate, SN seemed, still seems, like a risk worth taking. It's early days.

[leipzig76]

On 28/08/2023 at 20:21, youngy1874 said:

Why because I haven't posted in ages. I generally read and don't post a lot. @cookieboy can verify who I am. Season ticket for over 18 years 

Aye but where fur likesay ?  😜

[4marsbars]

28 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

It is. Yet looking through threads on here the conversation is largely focussed on the sitting midfielders and the weakness of the entire defence.

 

Exactly. Something is taking shape even if we cannot see it.

[Gorgi1874]

On 28/08/2023 at 22:15, youngy1874 said:

Since Naismith, McAvoy or whoever is in charge has came in our record is 5 wins in 14 competative games in all competitions W5 D4 L5

 

Now prior to Neilson being sacked his last 14 games in all competitions was W6 D1 L7 so he actually won more, granted he lost more also.

 

But it begs the question, are we any better off with our new management team?

 

Stats suggest not really.

At least he's consistent 

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not defending Neilson but Boyce, Kent, Tagawa, Vargas, Nieuwenhof, Lowry were not available to Neilson in the period  before he was sacked so hardly the same set of players. 

You are defending him!  As you always did. 
 

For a bit of context,  Boyce has not managed a full game yet and was largely poor for Neilson before his injury (he actually looks better now strangely, maybe SN just gets more out of him).   And Tagawa,  Vargas, Nieuwenhoff and Lowry have not racked up many minutes yet and too early to tell if any of them will be any good for us.  
 

Also worth pointing out that two of the 5 defeats have been against Rosenberg and PAOK, better teams than we face week in week out in the SPFL.  So only 3 domestic defeats, one of which was against Hibs 5 minutes after SN took over which anyone other than the most rabid SN hated acknowledged is an unfair game to pin on SN.  

 

In short, it’s nowhere near sacking material, anyone suggesting otherwise (not saying you are) is howling at the moon.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Fozzyonthefence

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

And Ross County and Killie and St.Johnstone 

Didn’t we take 7 points from those games?

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You are defending him!  As you always did. 
 

For a bit of context,  Boyce has not managed a full game yet and was largely poor for Neilson before his injury (he actually looks better now strangely, maybe SN just gets more out of him).   And Tagawa,  Vargas, Nieuwenhoff and Lowry have not racked up many minutes yet and too early to tell if any of them will be any good for us.  

Good points but they have still joined since he left   If you add to that the players that have left since Neilson left and it’s crazy to suggest we have the same players now as we had then  

I’m not defending anyone   I was just pointing out the fallacy of the suggestion that it’s the same set of players  

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Didn’t we take 7 points from those games?

Can’t remember but it was strange that only the big games were  mentioned in the post  

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Good points but they have still joined since he left   If you add to that the players that have left since Neilson left and it’s crazy to suggest we have the same players now as we had then  

I’m not defending anyone   I was just pointing out the fallacy of the suggestion that it’s the same set of players  

That’s fair but I’m not sure Naismith is  seeing any advantage in these new or returning players yet as they’re still settling in / injured / not fully match fit - and some may turn out to be pish anyway, we don’t know yet.

[Fozzyonthefence]

9 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Can’t remember but it was strange that only the big games were  mentioned in the post  

Not strange at all unless you have an agenda against SN - OP was trying to make out it has been a shite set of results without acknowledging that the set of 14 games is not a normal set of 14 games in the SPFL since there has been 3 European games and 5 post split games plus another trip to ER.  That’s much, much tougher than what our 14 league games at the start or middle of the season will be - you have to acknowledge that, no?

 

And you know damn fine we got 7 points from these 3 games since 2 were this season and one was our best performance for years, in SN’s first home game.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Fozzyonthefence

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

46 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s fair but I’m not sure Naismith is  seeing any advantage in these new or returning players yet as they’re still settling in / injured / not fully match fit - and some may turn out to be pish anyway, we don’t know yet.

Part of the problem being our shite pre-season and slow transfer process.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

50 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Not strange at all unless you have an agenda against SN - OP was trying to make out it has been a shite set of results without acknowledging that the set of 14 games is not a normal set of 14 games in the SPFL since there has been 3 European games and 5 post split games plus another trip to ER.  That’s much, much tougher than what our 14 league games at the start or middle of the season will be - you have to acknowledge that, no?

 

And you know damn fine we got 7 points from these 3 games since 2 were this season and one was our best performance for years, in SN’s first home game.

It’s a kind of convoluted argument you have though.

 

His best performances (if not all results) were clearly last season against the better teams last season (save for Ross County).

 

Against the shite teams this season performances have been poor (at best) and completely at odds with how we played with him last season.

 

The main thing that has changed is that he has had a full pre season to impart his own and loudly voiced style on the players.

 

Yet we play nothing like how he wants and worse now that he has had time to drill it in to them.

 

Put it another way had we played last season in the league like we are this season barely anyone would have been calling for him to be appointed.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Watt-Zeefuik]

17 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

It is far too early to be discussing Naismith being sacked in my opinion.

 

But let's not pretend this is different to what happened with previous managers. I just checked the 'Official Neilson Out' thread that ran for 230 pages. It was started on the very same day he lost his first game. That was despite the fact he had won his first 8 competitive games of the season before that, including beating Hibs in the Scottish Cup semi-final.

 

Comparisons to previous managers aren't really helpful. Regardless of the fact a section of our support was on Neilson's back from the moment he returned and we're calling for him to be sacked from his very first defeat, that still doesn't make it any more sensible to be thinking about sacking Naismith at this stage in my opinion. The board have backed him in the transfer market and I think he needs to be given time to get things right. But other fans will have a different view and are entitled to that (regardless of what their view was of previous managers).

 

This is a very good post as were your others here. I would say the key thing for Neilson in the bad period (which I roughly start with the debacle midfield selection against Rangers but could arguably include the game before too) is that we were getting terrible performances and absolutely nothing looked better week over week. The bad performances against St. Johnstone and Dundee were split by a fine performance against PAOK that we should have gotten more out of, and came right after a thumping win against a true giant of Norwegian football.

 

For me the bumping start with the Naismith and Friends Committee is fairly expected, as rookie managers make silly mistakes sometimes, and our late recruitment meant that some players haven't had a chance to settle and it shows. The current standard of results isn't good enough and we should all agree on that, but if we weren't ready for some rocky periods as Naismith learned the trade of being in the hot seat then we never should have hired him in the first place.

 

17 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not defending Neilson but Boyce, Kent, Tagawa, Vargas, Nieuwenhof, Lowry were not available to Neilson in the period  before he was sacked so hardly the same set of players. 

 

Critically Haring was also missing during our abysmal stretch. We had a gutted defence and no good options at holding mid to go with Devlin, which was the core source of our problem. Neilson still didn't deal with it well enough and was rightly sacked but folk ignoring the injury and recruitment issues are just being daft or grinding an axe.

[Kirky Jambo]

Obviously Naismiths record is pretty poor on the whole so far, there’s no disputing that. 
 

Got to be said though we look like a more solid defensive unit. One domestic goal conceded, and with our first choice keeper and CB out injured.

 

Too early to judge imo, but fully appreciate Naismith will be under huge pressure if we don’t beat Motherwell or Aberdeen (assuming we go out to PAOK)