Naismith, Forrest and McAvoy to end of the season ( updated/merged )

[Haken]

Just now, Bauld said:

The big question is this.

 

Does the squad mend with the removal of the manager. As can sometimes be the case.

 

Or is it not the manager and the players just don't like each other and it is now fractured beyond repair.

 

 

If the players can't come together and play as a unit, brothers in arms. Then it won't matter who the manager is. Until we can remove the problems in the summer we will struggle.

It’s hard to say without knowing all the ins and outs of it. There’s plenty conjecture but no real hard facts,  I’d like to think that Naismith won’t take any shit from anyone.  He has a footballing pedigree to back him up, so I guess players will listen to him.  Time will tell.

[gordon simpson]

Good luck Steven hope this goes well and you get the job permanently  

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

our B team is filled with 16/17 year olds playing against grown men.  
 

he’s done a great job by all accounts 

Indeed he is. 

[sac]

Team for Saturday will be interesting. Players will all be playing for a starting place as none of them at this moment should think they are an automatic pick.

Step up or prepare to be shipped out is what they should be told.

[Carter]

Really looking forward to see Naisy approaches the two games against OF post split. Depending on the fixture list they may not be overly pivotal to either. They certainly will be for us. 

 

Neilson was on a 14 consecutive game losing run against them. Pretty sure it'll be safe to say that Naisy won't have his kegs full at prospect of facing either of them which is a bonus. 

[The Tackle]

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, tian447 said:

Uninspiring really. Already at the club, and could be part of the problem. 

 

Only one way to find out, and I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see this changing much. 

I’m worried that Forrest could be part of the problem also 

I hope the players didn’t want shot of him also 

[Rogue Daddy]

46 minutes ago, Rods said:

From what I heard Naismith takes no nonsense with the B team and we all know how he was as a player. 
 

Hopefully cracks the whip and gets us back on track. 

Dot you know what system they play in the B team? Is it the same 343 that RN preferred (for continuity’s sake)… or does Naismith prefer something different? 
Saturday is going to be interesting. But I think this is the right move, Naismith will get the respect of the players and, more importantly, he KNOWS them. 3rd is definitely still a possibility 🙏

 

FTH

[XB52]

Only sensible decision they could make

[ramrod]

1 minute ago, 1874robbo said:

I’m worried that Forrest could be part of the problem also 

I hope the players didn’t want shot of him also 

If they did he'd be gone, maybe he was the good cop 

[Zico]

As expected. Hope he can sort things out. He doesn’t strike me as someone who puts up with lack of application so most of the squad should be expecting a firm boot up the arse. 

[1874robbo]

Just now, ramrod said:

If they did he'd be gone, maybe he was the good cop 

Yeh quite possibly, I hope so but you tend to find when a coaching team get emptied it’s usually all that go.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

37 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Agree with all of that except the last sentence. To be honest if a rookie manager can ‘turn it around’ in a couple of weeks then it can’t have been that bad in the first place. It would all point to one thing, players attitudes. 

players attitudes probably have a part to play - big part of a managers job to have players motivated and the correct attitude - manager has failed if the players aren’t playing for them albeit it doesn’t reflect greatly on the players either

 

could also be players being played out of position or being totally confused by the ‘tactics’ or no belief in the ‘tactics’ or that the team selection is not on merit

 

so no it doesn’t all point to one thing

[jr ewing]

41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Agree with all of that except the last sentence. To be honest if a rookie manager can ‘turn it around’ in a couple of weeks then it can’t have been that bad in the first place. It would all point to one thing, players attitudes. 

Oh it's bad 👎 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

4 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

I’m worried that Forrest could be part of the problem also 

I hope the players didn’t want shot of him also 

The players need to wind their ****ing necks in now mate.

[1874robbo]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

The players need to wind their ****ing necks in now mate.

Yeh they do I agree.

let’s get back to fighting and scrapping for everything!!!!

these feckers have had it too easy imo 

[Thomaso]

52 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Agree with all of that except the last sentence. To be honest if a rookie manager can ‘turn it around’ in a couple of weeks then it can’t have been that bad in the first place. It would all point to one thing, players attitudes. 

Or training

Or tactics

Or formation

Or motivation

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

26 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Managers have to deal with all sorts of players with all sorts of attitudes. It  is a core  part of a manager's job .

 

 

 

 

 

 

a manager responsible for the performance of their staff that’s a radical suggestion mate - take that out and the job specs a blank page

 

 

[Footballfirst]

33 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You just never know how things will work out, maybe he'll be brilliant. But the B team are 13th, 30 points behind the rangers B, so I'm more hopeful than optimistic I think.

 

The B Team is currently 12th, after sitting 17th with just 11 points from the first 15 games. Since then, performances and results have picked up with 33 points from the last 17 games.  That will be down to coaching in part and the players themselves gaining experience.

19 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Dot you know what system they play in the B team? Is it the same 343 that RN preferred (for continuity’s sake)… or does Naismith prefer something different? 
Saturday is going to be interesting. But I think this is the right move, Naismith will get the respect of the players and, more importantly, he KNOWS them. 3rd is definitely still a possibility 🙏

 

FTH

They more often than not play 4 at the back, rather than three, but the style of play and tempo, until the last couple of weeks, has been like the first team, keep the ball, pass, pass, pass sideways.

 

Feel free to go along to Rosewell tomorrow night and see for yourself when the B Team plays Open Goal Broomhill, who are one place above Hearts in the table.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Bainy]

I think naismith will be a breathe of fresh air. Attack minded and a natural born winner. Quite happy he gets to the end of the season to see how he goes. 

[Mr Elwood P]

45 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Are you joking ? He and Cathro (under Leveins eyes right enough) got rid of just about every decent youth player we had

The only decent youth player we've had recently was Hickey. Before that Walker and Nicholson to some extent. The rest have been absolutely bang average and that has been reflected in the careers they've carved out ...

[Rods]

18 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Dot you know what system they play in the B team? Is it the same 343 that RN preferred (for continuity’s sake)… or does Naismith prefer something different? 
Saturday is going to be interesting. But I think this is the right move, Naismith will get the respect of the players and, more importantly, he KNOWS them. 3rd is definitely still a possibility 🙏

 

FTH

Not sure about the system in the b team just heard that Naismith is tough on the players. I think that is required at the moment. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

despite us being in free fall binning neilson was still a risky and ruthless decision

 

assuming it’s not a one-off it hopefully means the end of safe jobs / queen Ann / granny budge / hob nob - driven decisions

 

hopefully the board no longer give a **** (within reason) who’s in the job as long they believe they are the very best and that our ambitions are to completely pull away from the rest of the pack

 

If that’s anything like the case even if Naismith does deliver 3rd I don’t think there’s any guarantee he would get the job permanently

 

Probably best appointment in the current circumstances - needs to finish 3rd and a bit more (like very competitive performances against both old firm) to be anything other than just one of the candidates for the permanent job imo

 

 

[jr ewing]

39 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Managers have to deal with all sorts of players with all sorts of attitudes. It  is a core  part of a manager's job .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Part is deciding if you need a player with the type of attitude that if things go wrong they'll still give their all.

[OTT]

54 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

It was one of Neilson's hidden strengths in his first go round that he knew the youth squad really well and they trusted him.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Neilson has ever been one for youth development. By the time he took over in 2014 following admin, all the heavy lifting that comes from youth development had been done by John McGlynn and Gary Locke, players like Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson & McKay had already cut their teeth and proven themselves. Looking through his first tenure, he was great at handing out debuts to a few at the end of the season, but there was no follow up. I'm sure he gave Connor Smith his debut and then we don't see him again for years! First team football is about winning ultimately, so I don't grudge this about Neilson, but he's not someone I believe that cares much about the youth team in any meaningful sense.  

 

Its actually something I don't think John McGlynn gets enough credit for and I genuinely believe if the club wants to get serious about actually seeing a return from out youth team, we should be offering the B team job to McGlynn. Very well thought of coach that has a very well established record in bringing through young players. I'm not sure he'd go for it, but if we have a plan and the B team has a future then maybe he will see that it could be a very key role in the club going forward. 

[Debut 4]

If anything, I hope Naismith has the right effect on the fear of the players.
 

While Neilson is to blame for a lot towards creating this unsettled vibe, I hope the players get the wake up call too.  
 

Maybe some should realise Hearts may be as good as it gets for them, maybe some should realise that their jobs “aren’t the safest in Scotland” at a club that generally has a welcoming aura.  Maybe they’ve let the fans adulation go to their heads?
 

Im not sure what will happen but I hope Naisy has some kind of X factor about him and that transmits to the players. Neilson clearly failed in the end in maintaining a contented work place the players thrived in, so now that’s Naismith’s job but there needs to be a balance.  Players can’t feel they call the shots and the manager needs to make them feel responsible.  

Edited April 10, 2023 by Debut 4

[jambopilms]

Wonder if Naismith will promote any of the B team, to give a bit of energy and enthusiasm.

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

“We need to have a right good look at ourselves, any successful team needs a togetherness, a never-say-die attitude when you’re not playing well“

 

“We need to be right by each other’s side now”

 

This was from Snodgrass after Kilmarnock. 
 

 

I think now more than ever, the most important thing is staying together. The worst thing you can have is those cliques, groups dividing the dressing room saying, ‘this is wrong’.

 

The above was Kingsley after the St Mirren game.

 

 

Both are heavily intimating there isn’t a togetherness.

 

 

 

 

 

So they haven't come right out and said that there were problems. They have hinted at it. So we don't have knowledge of it, we have rumour. 

[Rogue Daddy]

18 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

The B Team is currently 12th, after sitting 17th with just 11 points from the first 15 games. Since then, performances and results have picked up with 33 points from the last 17 games.  That will be down to coaching in part and the players themselves gaining experience.

They more often than not play 4 at the back, rather than three, but the style of play and tempo, until the last couple of weeks, has been like the first team, keep the ball, pass, pass, pass sideways.

 

Feel free to go along to Rosewell tomorrow night and see for yourself when the B Team plays Open Goal Broomhill, who are one place above Hearts in the table.

Cheers ff👍

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

The B Team is currently 12th, 

Fair enough, I was going by the table on the hearts site 

[Rogue Daddy]

17 minutes ago, Rods said:

Not sure about the system in the b team just heard that Naismith is tough on the players. I think that is required at the moment. 

👍

[normando]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Neilson has ever been one for youth development. By the time he took over in 2014 following admin, all the heavy lifting that comes from youth development had been done by John McGlynn and Gary Locke, players like Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson & McKay had already cut their teeth and proven themselves. Looking through his first tenure, he was great at handing out debuts to a few at the end of the season, but there was no follow up. I'm sure he gave Connor Smith his debut and then we don't see him again for years! First team football is about winning ultimately, so I don't grudge this about Neilson, but he's not someone I believe that cares much about the youth team in any meaningful sense.  

 

Its actually something I don't think John McGlynn gets enough credit for and I genuinely believe if the club wants to get serious about actually seeing a return from out youth team, we should be offering the B team job to McGlynn. Very well thought of coach that has a very well established record in bringing through young players. I'm not sure he'd go for it, but if we have a plan and the B team has a future then maybe he will see that it could be a very key role in the club going forward. 

Yes Gary Locke was another one who worked well with youth team 

Sandy Clark was also good at youth level

[RDSK]

Forrest is a good coach by many accounts and he’ll have been kept around to help Naismith get his message across to the players. You can have all the ideas in the world but you need to be able to put them into practice. 

 

Naismith will hopefully have a bit of the Gerrard effect on the squad. There’s nothing like a guy whose done it at the highest levels - SPL titles, Scottish Cup, League Cup, premier league experience, numerous international caps - to command the respect of a dressing room.

 

Fairly content with this management team until the end of the season. 

[Batistuta87]

Said when he was winding down bus career that he was a future Hearts manager and there we have it. Fully behind him and hope he's successful. Who knows if he gets us third and does it well then we could be looking at our next long term manager. Would certainly have a great network of contacts down south for bringing in players and he ****ing hates Celtic so we will at least get fired into them. Bring it on Naisy - all the best 👍🏻

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

So what are you saying, you’re going to want Hearts to lose matches just so someone (who might turn out to be an excellent manager) doesn’t get 3rd and get the job permanently?  What kind of Hearts fan thinks like that?  Isn’t that what you and your buddies were accusing the haters of?  Support the team no matter who the manager is.
 

Did you want Neilson to fail in his first spell too so he didn’t hang around and we could get a better manager in?

Hardly what I said. Can you not read? What bit of ‘want to finish third’ is hard for you to interpret?  We clearly won’t finish third if we lose many more games.  I’m hoping, and will be supporting at all the remaining matches, that we clinch third place. I just don’t think appointing Naismith as permanent head coach would the correct way forward regardless of what happens in next 6 weeks. 

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

2 hours ago, J80MBO said:

Hope anti-neilson section of fans are proved correct over next weeks and months.

You mean the club?

 

The club sacked Neilson and the club have appointed the interim team.

 

Re-read the last paragraph of Mckinlays statement.

[Colonel Kurtz]

13 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Wonder if Naismith will promote any of the B team, to give a bit of energy and enthusiasm.

Tait and Pollock

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

3 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

.  Players can’t feel they call the shots and the manager needs to make them feel responsible.  

the magic is to make the players want to be responsible - it’s a massive part of any managers job sport or otherwise

 

souness said he jacked in management partly as the levers he used no longer worked on young millionaire players - they didn’t need for money they didn’t care if they played or were dropped etc they probably didn’t even need a new contract

 

i think warnock said similar about premiership players and that he would only work with the slightly lower level player even in the unlikely event that he got offered another premiership job

the Southampton players didn’t respect sturrock apparently because he wore rubbish off the peg clothes

 

next couple of games will tell us a lot although even for us a derby game could be potentially difficult - IF Naismith can simplify things and get the players playing we’ll finish 3rd as we’re better than aberdeen (surely)

 

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

3 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Said when he was winding down bus career that he was a future Hearts manager and there we have it. Fully behind him and hope he's successful. Who knows if he gets us third and does it well then we could be looking at our next long term manager. Would certainly have a great network of contacts down south for bringing in players and he ****ing hates Celtic so we will at least get fired into them. Bring it on Naisy - all the best 👍🏻

Was he a driver or conductor

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

Just watching Vincent Kompany being interviewed.  No more experienced than naisy when he took over at anderlecht

Yep, and he wasn’t a huge success at Anderlecht. Third and fourth in the league. Second post he has become a winner.  Just needed the two years experience at Anderlecht before making his mark.  Next stop Etihad. 

[soonbe110]

45 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Oh it's bad 👎 

Hope not 

[theshed]

27 minutes ago, Bainy said:

I think naismith will be a breathe of fresh air. Attack minded and a natural born winner. Quite happy he gets to the end of the season to see how he goes. 

You say attack minded but reading footballfirst post above how Naismith sets his team up it seems he plays the same pass,pass, sideways pass 

 

Guess we will find out soon 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

11 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Tait and Pollock

Pollock only fit to play an hour of B team games apparently, had some injuries 

[Naisys Tackle]

6 minutes ago, theshed said:

You say attack minded but reading footballfirst post above how Naismith sets his team up it seems he plays the same pass,pass, sideways pass 

 

Guess we will find out soon 

The team will be instructed to play the way as the 1st team to assist any players transition to our first team (under Robbie aye right though)  need to give Naisy a chance and forget the negativity etc   

[soonbe110]

30 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Neilson has ever been one for youth development. By the time he took over in 2014 following admin, all the heavy lifting that comes from youth development had been done by John McGlynn and Gary Locke, players like Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson & McKay had already cut their teeth and proven themselves. Looking through his first tenure, he was great at handing out debuts to a few at the end of the season, but there was no follow up. I'm sure he gave Connor Smith his debut and then we don't see him again for years! First team football is about winning ultimately, so I don't grudge this about Neilson, but he's not someone I believe that cares much about the youth team in any meaningful sense.  

 

Its actually something I don't think John McGlynn gets enough credit for and I genuinely believe if the club wants to get serious about actually seeing a return from out youth team, we should be offering the B team job to McGlynn. Very well thought of coach that has a very well established record in bringing through young players. I'm not sure he'd go for it, but if we have a plan and the B team has a future then maybe he will see that it could be a very key role in the club going forward. 

He was u20’s manager for the year before he got the top job. U20’s reached youth cup final that year. From that final team he took Paterson, McGhee, King, Carrick, Nicholson into the first team with him. Certainly gave youth its chance. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Are you joking ? He and Cathro (under Leveins eyes right enough) got rid of just about every decent youth player we had

 

No, Neilson was the youth coach and had coached Paterson, Smith, McGhee, King, McKay, Carrick, Oliver and Nicholson in the Scottish Youth Cup Final the season before.

[Nerja Jambo]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He was u20’s manager for the year before he got the top job. U20’s reached youth cup final that year. From that final team he took Paterson, McGhee, King, Carrick, Nicholson into the first team with him. Certainly gave youth its chance. 

Because financially he had no other choice but to promote these players. 

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

 

No, Neilson was the youth coach and had coached Paterson, Smith, McGhee, King, McKay, Carrick, Oliver and Nicholson in the Scottish Youth Cup Final the season before.

Darren Murray coached them 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

Darren Murray coached them 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/27403333

 

Quote

Rangers lifted the Scottish FA Youth Cup after their goalkeeper Liam Kelly scored the decisive penalty in a thrilling shoot-out at St Mirren Park.

The teams were level at 2-2 after 90 minutes and the score remained the same following extra time. They then matched each another's penalty tally after 10 attempts apiece.

 

At 7-7, Kelly struck then saved opposing goalie Jordan Millar's effort.

Millar had been at fault for Rangers' late equaliser as full-time beckoned.

Hearts, with new club head coach Robbie Neilson in charge in the dugout, had led 1-0 through Sam Nicholson.

He met Calum Paterson's cross at the back post and, although his headed attempt was saved, he reacted quickly to lash it over the line.

Greg Pascazio's deflected long-range shot evaded Millar to restore parity before Billy King made it 2-1 to Hearts, knocking home the rebound from Angus Beith's shot.

The Hearts fans in Paisley were preparing their full-time celebrations when a long ball in the dying moments was nodded over Millar and into the net from 18 yards by Craig Halkett.

And after 14 converted penalties from 20 attempts, it took the heroics of goalkeeper Kelly for Rangers to get their hands on the trophy.

Rangers: Kelly, Pascazio, Sinnamon, Halkett, Gasparotto, Telfer, Stoney, Murdoch, Gallagher, Dykes, Ramsay. Subs: Gibson, Roberts, Burrows, McKay, McMinn.

Hearts: Millar, Smith, Paterson, Gordon, McGhee, Beith, King, Scott, Carrick, Oliver, Nicholson. Subs: Buchanan, Mason, Simpson, Ford, McKirdy

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

7 minutes ago, Nerja Jambo said:

Because financially he had no other choice but to promote these players. 

The following season, once back in the top flight, he gave appearances to Liam Smith, Gary Oliver, and Sean McKirdy who had not featured much the previous year, and gave 20 appearances (including That Game at Pittodrie) to Jordan McGhee.

 

The whole "Robbie didnae play ra yoofs" claptrap is largely baseless.