Kingsley - best position? ( edited )

[Pingu]

This is exactly the type of competition for places we should be aiming for throughout the team. Will be similar when Beni is back and it's two from three with him, Snodgrass and Cammy. Or if we can keep Hill next season and only two from him, Sibbick and Halkett can start. I am a *huge* Kingsley fan, but right now, I'd consider alternating between Cochrane and Kingsley at LWB, depending on the opposition. Tinkering with the back three is unhelpful, but at wing back I think you can get away with it. Hill, Sibbick, Rowles is probably our best back three combination. 

[Rogue Daddy]

12 minutes ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

Unfortunately someone has to miss out regardless of the formation.
 

Rowles is our LCB and it’s between Kingsley and Cochrane for LWB. This is one little area of the team where I think rotation wouldn’t hamper us. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Pingu said:

This is exactly the type of competition for places we should be aiming for throughout the team. Will be similar when Beni is back and it's two from three with him, Snodgrass and Cammy. Or if we can keep Hill next season and only two from him, Sibbick and Halkett can start. I am a *huge* Kingsley fan, but right now, I'd consider alternating between Cochrane and Kingsley at LWB, depending on the opposition. Tinkering with the back three is unhelpful, but at wing back I think you can get away with it. Hill, Sibbick, Rowles is probably our best back three combination. 

 

Both fair points... especially about Hill, Sibbick & Rowles. The three of them look solid if we're playing a 343. Kingsley and Cochrane as LWBs.

[Mr Rabbit]

1 hour ago, PhoenixHearts said:

To be honest it's maybe not an ideal time to be having this discussion. He shouldn't be in the starting XI right now (in my opinion)

 

His recent downturn in form isn't because Cochrane is depriving him of playing his favoured position nor is it some tactical error of Neilson's doing. He is as competent player at LB in a 4 (2020-21) as he was as a LCB in a 3 (2021-22).

 

Rather his struggles of late have been entirely down to a simple loss of form from a multitude of injuries preventing him from getting a decent and consistent run of games. Most recently being his concussion (from which in my humble and incredibly amateur opinion he has not yet recovered fully).

 

It's almost an open and shut case. He's been up and down this season. Truth be told even before he was healthy he perhaps wasn't as incredible as last season. (Still good as he has a high floor) 

 

Luckily he is a fantastic player and he absolutely has it in him to improve his form and reassert himself as a fixture on the team sheet.

I just don't believe he has done enough to warrant a place in our backline at the expense of Rowles, Cochrane or Sibbick. Not right now.

Agree with this.

 

if we played with a 4 at the back the OP might have a point but we don’t. He’s done well as a LCB in a 5 but has been stop start this season with injuries. 
 

For todays game I would revert back to Hill, sibbick and Rowles as they seemed well balanced and defended well.

[MR INCREDIBLE]

I’m a bit in the middle of the Neilson debate but I think this Kingsley situation shows up the problem we will have going forward.

   If we get 3rd again we are going to get an even stronger squad and I think we might need a standard of manager that matches the players.

 

 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Unfortunately it’s the bench that’s his best position at the moment.

 

He shouldn’t be shoe horned into the team at all costs - our 3 left footed defenders do not work well together.

[Sooks]

7 minutes ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

I’m a bit in the middle of the Neilson debate but I think this Kingsley situation shows up the problem we will have going forward.

   If we get 3rd again we are going to get an even stronger squad and I think we might need a standard of manager that matches the players.

 

 

Not sure that is the case to be honest , because he has improved many of the players in our current squad to a level of performance and consistency they had not achieved at previous clubs . May be he has them performing above their level and not the other way around 

[PhoenixHearts]

7 minutes ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

I’m a bit in the middle of the Neilson debate but I think this Kingsley situation shows up the problem we will have going forward.

   If we get 3rd again we are going to get an even stronger squad and I think we might need a standard of manager that matches the players.

 

 

 

If we get 3rd, do well in the cup and achieve Europe again that would suggest we are consolidating upon prior success and that in turn suggests the players and manager are singing from the same hymn sheet and are well matched.

 

Alas this is a Kingsley thread, not a Robbie one 🙃

[OTT]

Is a big part of our way of playing, not playing it out from the back and trusting that our defenders will beat the oppositions press? I don't think its unfair to say that we can usually do this well when we're playing teams outside the OF, but the reality is the OF have much better players, and attempting to beat their press is naïve and won't work.

 

I saw Kingsley get caught a few times, but so did quite a few of our defenders. I'd chalk it up as not being match sharp more than anything. I think among various other issues, shoe horning him into such a big fixture when the team was fine without him was silly. Hopefully he can be bed in over the next few games. 

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, Chimp said:

So if both are fully fit, who do you choose at LB?

Kingsley for me, but we don't play with a LB usually.
We have two good LBs, neither are that well suited to be LWBs as one doesn’t have the fitness and the other isnt a great crosser of the ball. 

We still don’t really have the players to play the system with wingbacks properly. 
The fact that a great proponent of the system, Antonio Conte, can’t find two wingbacks to play it with all their money shows that its not that easy. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Unfortunately it’s the bench that’s his best position at the moment.

 

He shouldn’t be shoe horned into the team at all costs - our 3 left footed defenders do not work well together.

Spot on

[tiger Rudi]

1 hour ago, PhoenixHearts said:

To be honest it's maybe not an ideal time to be having this discussion. He shouldn't be in the starting XI right now (in my opinion)

 

His recent downturn in form isn't because Cochrane is depriving him of playing his favoured position nor is it some tactical error of Neilson's doing. He is as competent player at LB in a 4 (2020-21) as he was as a LCB in a 3 (2021-22).

 

Rather his struggles of late have been entirely down to a simple loss of form from a multitude of injuries preventing him from getting a decent and consistent run of games. Most recently being his concussion (from which in my humble and incredibly amateur opinion he has not yet recovered fully).

 

It's almost an open and shut case. He's been up and down this season. Truth be told even before he was healthy he perhaps wasn't as incredible as last season. (Still good as he has a high floor) 

 

Luckily he is a fantastic player and he absolutely has it in him to improve his form and reassert himself as a fixture on the team sheet.

I just don't believe he has done enough to warrant a place in our backline at the expense of Rowles, Cochrane or Sibbick. Not right now.

Agree totally. Fantastic player but not a starter on recent form. 

[No Idle Talk]

Left back is his best position. He says so himself. 

 

He should never ever be a centre back in a back four. He's hopeless at it. 

 

I'd need to see more of him at left wing back in order to form an opinion on how good he is in that position. He's a better footballer than Alex Cochrane so I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to play that role. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

45 minutes ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

Unfortunately someone has to miss out regardless of the formation.
 

Rowles is our LCB and it’s between Kingsley and Cochrane for LWB. This is one little area of the team where I think rotation wouldn’t hamper us.

 

40 minutes ago, Pingu said:

This is exactly the type of competition for places we should be aiming for throughout the team.

 

^^^^ More or less exactly my reply; we want this problem all over the park

 

Result: 2 good teams

 

Until then, we'll keep working on improving everyone and trying things here and there

[heartsfc_fan]

If we play a back 4 his best position is LB.

 

If we play a back 3 he's best at LCB.

[davemclaren]

It's a great problem to have.  He doesn't look fully back to his best yet so maybe benched at the moment. 

[Hungry hippo]

He's an excellent player who happens to have had a couple of very poor games. These things happen and he'll be fine.

 

He's shown previously his quality regardless of position. 

[martoon]

2 hours ago, Chong said:

 

I prefer Cochrane 🤭

 

😄

[Rods]

47 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Unfortunately it’s the bench that’s his best position at the moment.

 

He shouldn’t be shoe horned into the team at all costs - our 3 left footed defenders do not work well together.

 

The bench for me.

[Famous 1874]

His best position is left centre back in a 3. 

[Scott980612]

Back 3 of Hill Rowles Sibbick  

 
LWB - Cochrane. 
 
Kingsley on bench at the moment 

[Pasquale for King]

Have teams or refs stopped giving us fouls where he has a chance to score from, can’t think of many opportunities he or Snodgrass have had recently. Boyce drew these fouls perhaps. 

[Cruyff]

LCB but he's miles off at the moment. Cochrane is a better LWB because he has the engine to get up and down the park for 90minutes. Kingsleys hammy would go every other week if he played LWB. 

[SomethingAboutObua]

Sorry am I just being thick, I can't remember Kingsley ever consistently playing LWB at any point of us using the back 3/5? He's always been the left of tbe back 3 or as the left back in a back 4? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 hours ago, Chimp said:

constant goal threat from the back line? please explain…

Less so this season, but last season, he was our joint second top goal scorer with seven goals in 41 appearances.

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Less so this season, but last season, he was our joint second top goal scorer with seven goals in 41 appearances.

Kingsley has been awful all season. He's never got going but tbf, injuries saw him playing CB for the early part. Needs games in his best position in a settled team before we see the best of him again. 

[Pete Elliott]

21 hours ago, Chimp said:

Stephen Kingsley is in my opinion the best LB we’ve had since Fyssas. Reading of the game is second to none and used to offer so much for us going forward. A proper class act.

 

In comes Cochrane, superb player and deserves his place in the team but consequently pushes Kingsley into a LCH. That is not his position. I don’t have the answer to suit both but it is very frustrating seeing such a good player being played out of position to accommodate someone else.

 

Another Tierney/Robertson situation but for me Kingsley starts at LB for me every day of the week, we miss him there.

[Dazo]

He seems to be struggling and we look worse when he plays. 

[OTT]

LB in a back 4, LCB in a back 3. 

 

Trouble is, Cochrane is better in the wingback role because he can bomb up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. Kingsley can't. Rowles being left footed, also means Kingsley getting into LCB creates issues on the right, as Sibbick and Hill are both doing too good to drop IMO. 

 

 

[Bull's-eye]

Its a squad game boyz.

 

Kingsley is currently a total liability and has no place on the pitch. Up to him to show us differently.

 

Tried to play like Michael Smith today and couldn't.

 

Good player but his position has been filled for now.

[McCrae]

5 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Its a squad game boyz.

 

Kingsley is currently a total liability and has no place on the pitch. Up to him to show us differently.

 

Tried to play like Michael Smith today and couldn't.

 

Good player but his position has been filled for now.

Agreed.

[Philfigo]

Feel really bad in saying this bit he should not be in that team at the minute. We have had a settled back 3 and it's been working. Kingslay comes back and is squeezed into that team putting others out of position and its caused havoc with our defence. He should have had like everybody else wait his time and play himself into the team. Subbing Kye was a disgrace as it should have been Kingslay going off. 

[spacerjoe]

11 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Kingsley for me, but we don't play with a LB usually.
We have two good LBs, neither are that well suited to be LWBs as one doesn’t have the fitness and the other isnt a great crosser of the ball. 

We still don’t really have the players to play the system with wingbacks properly. 
The fact that a great proponent of the system, Antonio Conte, can’t find two wingbacks to play it with all their money shows that its not that easy. 

Even Potter seems to have now binned it at Chelsea too.

[CMc]

7 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Even Potter seems to have now binned it at Chelsea too.

Because all his fullbacks are injured up until the Fulham match?

[WheatfieldWarrior]

Best position for Kingsley is on the bench tbh.  

 

Sibbick, Hill and Rowles in the middle and Cochrane at wing back is the play.

 

Experienced, but not a first choice, certainly not on current form.

 

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Even Potter seems to have now binned it at Chelsea too.

He has to keep everyone involved so it might return 🤔🤦🏽?!?!

[Pasquale for King]

You could see why he doesn’t play LWB, hes also not up to it physically and ending up injured again. 

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Its a squad game boyz.

 

Kingsley is currently a total liability and has no place on the pitch. Up to him to show us differently.

 

Tried to play like Michael Smith today and couldn't.

 

Good player but his position has been filled for now.

Sad to say but agree. 

[hearts00]

He was our best outfield player last season. Magnificent. However I have to agree he should not be first choice right now. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

He is an excellent left back. A very good left wing back and a decent central defender providing he hS the right partners

[Pete Elliott]

8 hours ago, Philfigo said:

Feel really bad in saying this bit he should not be in that team at the minute. We have had a settled back 3 and it's been working. Kingslay comes back and is squeezed into that team putting others out of position and its caused havoc with our defence. He should have had like everybody else wait his time and play himself into the team. Subbing Kye was a disgrace as it should have been Kingslay going off. 

Don’t feel bad. As Bullseye says it’s a squad game and he needs to earn his place.

 

Totally understood him staying on yesterday over Rowles. We had 90% possession at that point and he is far better with the ball at his feet.

[spacerjoe]

8 hours ago, CMc said:

Because all his fullbacks are injured up until the Fulham match?

Cucurella played WB for him at (Brighton  albeit he played him in a variety of positions, bit like Kingsley) and Chelsea.

 

James has played WB many times and suits that position - athletic, strong in attack and defence. Scored alot cutting in from the wing.

 

To be fair though, he hasn't favoured 3-4-3 so much at Chelsea as he has chopped and changed formation week to week.

 

Be interesting to see if he sticks with one way of playing now.

 

Anyway, wrong thread I guess.

 

I think Kingsleys best position for us is LCB, but I'm not sure that's next to Rowles at the moment, or he's simply taking time to get back to form.

 

In any case, no need to force him into the side.

[i wish jj was my dad]

21 hours ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

I’m a bit in the middle of the Neilson debate but I think this Kingsley situation shows up the problem we will have going forward.

   If we get 3rd again we are going to get an even stronger squad and I think we might need a standard of manager that matches the players.

 

 

The same manager who recruited the players that keep improving us? 

[mr fox]

On 04/02/2023 at 00:45, Chimp said:

Stephen Kingsley is in my opinion the best LB we’ve had since Fyssas. Reading of the game is second to none and used to offer so much for us going forward. A proper class act.

 

In comes Cochrane, superb player and deserves his place in the team but consequently pushes Kingsley into a LCH. That is not his position. I don’t have the answer to suit both but it is very frustrating seeing such a good player being played out of position to accommodate someone else.

 

Another Tierney/Robertson situation but for me Kingsley starts at LB for me every day of the week, we miss him there.

Personally think Cochrane is a step above him. Great player Kingsley but I can see young Alex playing in EPL

[kingantti1874]

Prefer him at LCB. Would prefer him to play his way back into the team then (if we really have to persist with the 3 at the back ) play 

 

Sibbick Rowles Kingsley.

 

if fit and firing needs to play before hill. 
 

he could also play left back in a 4.   But NOT in the full back role cochrane plays 

[Mr Kipling]

Kingsley should not be starting. Since coming back from injury he has been gash. Taking Rowles off yesterday instead of Kingsley was a bloody disgrace. 

[CMc]

Good to see the Cochrane Kingsley axis back performing again!

[pettigrewsstylist]

Squad building with options. Last nights selection was another one of them.

Quality options and competition have to be there to raise levels.

Our left is looking good. Problem gonna be when suitors come calling for Cochrane in summer i think.

[pettigrewsstylist]

Double post*

Edited February 11, 2023 by pettigrewsstylist

[Rods]

Kingsley looked back to his old self last night.