Ukraine v Scotland - match thread (merged)

[Thomaso]

15 hours ago, jamboy1982 said:

Porteous was immense tonight, shows what he can do when he concentrates and cuts out the pish. But Hickey!! Wow! Best player on the park by a mile! 

Got caught under the ball twice and missed headers that laid on chances that Ukraine should have scored from.

[The Old Tolbooth]

22 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Got caught under the ball twice and missed headers that laid on chances that Ukraine should have scored from.

 

Glad it's not just me who noticed this, he was a bombscare for the first half hour, it's funny watching Hibs fans rave about him though, not realising he's played his ticket for a free transfer away from the sinking ship in January  

[ri Alban]

We get who we get. We're Scotland, we can't really think we can beat anyone.

[JamboAl]

31 minutes ago, DS98 said:

He played well last night. Not ‘tremendous’ or ‘fantastic’ which is what some sensationalist journos will tell you today. 
 

But I’ll tell you what, every time he gives away a goal, has a poor game, gets sent off or glasses a poor wee lassie I’ll come back to you with the ‘what do you think now?’ patter. 
 

Could get a bit tedious. And repetitive.

That must have hurt.

As regards your middle paragraph, you can come back all you like as I am sure he will make mistakes but I didn't say he was Scotland's answer to Beckenbauer:  I said he was no worse than the rest of our CDs and you'll never know if your Murray Wallaces etc would have done better last night.  Humble Pie for tea tonight, my friend.  Enjoy it.

[Rogue Daddy]

15 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Glad it's not just me who noticed this, he was a bombscare for the first half hour, it's funny watching Hibs fans rave about him though, not realising he's played his ticket for a free transfer away from the sinking ship in January  

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

[Homme]

1 minute ago, Rogue Daddy said:

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

 

Porto could be valued at a pound or £100M but it won't change the fact he will leave Hibs on a free in 2023.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Homme

[hereford_hearts]

5 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Porto could be valued at a pound or £100M but it won't change the fact he will leave Hibs on a free in 2023.

We should sign him for a free in Jan, just so we can hear his first interview, when he has to say 'I've always wanted to play for Hearts' 😂😂. 

Then loan him out to Stranraer obviously. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by hereford_hearts

[Rogue Daddy]

6 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Porto could be valued at a pound or £100M but it won't change the fact he will leave Hibs on a free in 2023.

Real shame that..... especially when he's worth £156million. 😳🤣🤣🤣

[DS98]

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That must have hurt.

As regards your middle paragraph, you can come back all you like as I am sure he will make mistakes but I didn't say he was Scotland's answer to Beckenbauer:  I said he was no worse than the rest of our CDs and you'll never know if your Murray Wallaces etc would have done better last night.  Humble Pie for tea tonight, my friend.  Enjoy it.

Opinions eh. 
 

I’m on a diet.

[The Old Tolbooth]

17 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

 

The drugs are strong down that way just now  

[John Findlay]

11 minutes ago, hereford_hearts said:

We should sign him for a free in Jan, just so we can hear his first interview, when he has to say 'I've always wanted to play for Hearts' 😂😂. 

Then loan him out to Stranraer obviously. 

Why pick on Stranraer?

[boag1874]

Hickey is a phenomenal footballer. Porteous, fair play was a great debut from him

CG, what a goalie

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Opinions eh. 
 

I’m on a diet.

If you'd read carefully what I said in the 1st place, your diet wouldn't matter.

[TheBigO]

20 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

He did well last night but he wasn't even the best Scottish centre half on the pitch never mind in general!!!

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

He did well last night but he wasn't even the best Scottish centre half on the pitch never mind in general!!!

Can't disagree with that!... thought Hickey was outstanding. What a player he's going to be going forward. Naturally two-footed also and, obviously, has a level head on his shoulders. The Scottish squad is shaping up to be quite strong (and young) for the first time in decades!

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Rogue Daddy said:

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

Tbh he probably is worth double Harry Maguires current value. £100k x 2 = £200k for Porto. 

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

He did well last night but he wasn't even the best Scottish centre half on the pitch never mind in general!!!

I was impressed with hendry last night, read the game well and was solid. The move to Belgium and now Italy has done wonders for his game

[DS98]

18 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

If you'd read carefully what I said in the 1st place, your diet wouldn't matter.

About 10 to 3 mate 

[Spellczech]

17 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

I was impressed with hendry last night, read the game well and was solid. The move to Belgium and now Italy has done wonders for his game

Almost need two hands to count the number of Scottish defenders in the current squad who have improved after leaving Celtic...

[briever]

1 hour ago, DS98 said:

He played well last night. Not ‘tremendous’ or ‘fantastic’ which is what some sensationalist journos will tell you today. 
 

But I’ll tell you what, every time he gives away a goal, has a poor game, gets sent off or glasses a poor wee lassie I’ll come back to you with the ‘what do you think now?’ patter. 
 

Could get a bit tedious. And repetitive.

 

The BBC are themselves silly about a decent debut - just how many Hobbos are fitba hacks in Scotland?

[William H. Bonney]

I just assumed that was kingsleys debut last night.

Didn't realise he had one cap previously.  

[JamboAl]

4 hours ago, DS98 said:

About 10 to 3 mate 

That makes just about as much sense as the rest of your contibutions here.

Keep digging.

Edited September 28, 2022 by JamboAl

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, William H. Bonney said:

I just assumed that was kingsleys debut last night.

Didn't realise he had one cap previously.  

He and McKay made their debuts in the same game too, getting pumped by France.

[William H. Bonney]

21 minutes ago, Smithee said:

He and McKay made their debuts in the same game too, getting pumped by France.

 

There you go. Didn't know that either. 

[DS98]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

That makes just about as much sense as the rest of your contibutions here.

Keep digging.

🤣 Enjoy your might mate. 
 

I’ve actually got a mutual friend with Porteous. I’ll try and get a signed strip for you. 

[ShedBoy]

[Randy Marsh]

5 hours ago, DS98 said:

🤣 Enjoy your might mate. 
 

I’ve actually got a mutual friend with Porteous. I’ll try and get a signed strip for you. 

🤣

[Watt-Zeefuik]

14 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

According to some doped-up trumpet from the Methadome, on the DR Hotline “ Neil Renton, Edinburgh, said: "What a performance from Ryan Porteous against Ukraine, proving his critics wrong and the fact he’s the best Scottish centre half just now. If Harry Maguire was bought for £78million, Porto must be worth double that."

…. but then again, who isn’t worth double Harry Maguire!

 

All depends on if he's sold outside of the UK. The way the pound is dropping and all . . .

[I P Knightley]

12 hours ago, ShedBoy said:

Lovely spot.

 

Just to chip in my tuppence worth. Porteous made a really good debut; a really tough fixture and many, many detractors expecting him to foul up. He made a few mistakes early on which were well covered by Hendry & Gordon (and others). He grew into the game and played really quite well later on. I just about shat myself when he went in for that tackle in the box towards the end. I'm still not sure it was necessary but, fair play to him, it was a really good tackle. Hendry, though, had a better game than him and was a strong mentor for him. He doesn't get that kind of support at Hibs.

[AlimOzturk]

Hendry has impressed me a lot over the three games. What an improvement since moving abroad

 

Porto - his career could go either way. If he screws the head then he will have a fairly good career down south. Still isn’t as good as Halkett imo. 

[jamboinglasgow]

Benn really impressed with what Clarke has done with Scotland. I do think the results in June were more down to a squad dead on their feet after a long season (I know opposition have that as well but we seemed to suffer badly from that.)

 

The fact players are stepping up when called upon is a good sign. It shows players who want to play for the team but also a manager who has got everyone knowing what their role is.

 

The fact that we now have top class full backs on both sides is a boost. Its obvious about Robertson and Tierney on the left, but Hickey and Patterson on the right (and Rasmay when he eventually plays for Liverpool.) We still need some more top class talent up front but we have a team who are punching above their weight and thats all you can ask.

[Doc Rob]

Some really excitable folk on the TAMB are comparing Hickey’s trajectory to that of Gareth Bale (who started his career playing LB for Southampton, of course).

 

I’m not going to climb on that hype train - I’ve seen way too many false dawns. But the early signs are very promising that he could develop into a top, top player for Scotland - and Christ, we’ve been waiting for our generational talent for more years than I can count.

[Luckies1874]

Great video, footage of a corner being taken at Tynecastle from a bygone day and mentions of Dave Mackay and the Terrible Trio.....

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Luckies1874

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Hendry has impressed me a lot over the three games. What an improvement since moving abroad

 

Porto - his career could go either way. If he screws the head then he will have a fairly good career down south. Still isn’t as good as Halkett imo. 

 

In career potential, position aside, Porto reminds me of Griffiths. Some real quality and skill that with sufficient work could develop into a top level player, but highly at risk of being overly focused on being a ned and wasting it all.

[TheBigO]

22 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

Hendry has impressed me a lot over the three games. What an improvement since moving abroad

 

Porto - his career could go either way. If he screws the head then he will have a fairly good career down south. Still isn’t as good as Halkett imo. 

Hendry is clearly a good player.  Funny, good mate of mine who is Celtic (i know I know, my mates are a mixed bag!) really doesn't rate him which quite amuses me, like what you do at one club defines you.  The guy has gone away and improved massively.  I like him.

 

He was unfairly in my opinion scapegoated for the loss to Czechs in the Euros for taking that shot on which led to the half way line goal.  The issue in that game was tactical not Hendry taking a shot when he should have passed (something that happens every game probably numerous times)

[TheBigO]

21 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Benn really impressed with what Clarke has done with Scotland. I do think the results in June were more down to a squad dead on their feet after a long season (I know opposition have that as well but we seemed to suffer badly from that.)

 

The fact players are stepping up when called upon is a good sign. It shows players who want to play for the team but also a manager who has got everyone knowing what their role is.

 

The fact that we now have top class full backs on both sides is a boost. Its obvious about Robertson and Tierney on the left, but Hickey and Patterson on the right (and Rasmay when he eventually plays for Liverpool.) We still need some more top class talent up front but we have a team who are punching above their weight and thats all you can ask.

Hm.  You know me JiG and I'm usually a positive boy but I've not really been on board with Clarke.  I think he started well but we've coasted for quite some time and got lucky a lot.  His insistance on 3/5 at the back and 352 in particular with McGinn at the heart of midfield was ridiculous and has cost us in big games such as at the Euros and the WC qualifier against Ukraine.

 

The Czech game I mention above, for me, is a very good example.  Tierney was not available - the 3 at the back worked well as Tierney steps in to midfield.  He didn't even attempt to address this in any way.  He played his usual formation but didn't strengthen the midfield, leaving both Gilmour (on good form at that point and proved against England he was ready) and McGregor on the bench.  Instead playing McGinn in the mixer where frankly he is a liability (I like McGinn, it's just not his position, not at that level anyway).  He got a massive game completely wrong. He's done it a lot.

 

We've ALWAYS looked best when we've played essentially 3 up top, especially when one of them is McGinn - he wins us the ball high up the park and through sheer madness makes things happen on the ball, and he chips in with goals.  He, Adams and Christie (or Armstrong or Fraser... McKay?) and you can go 343 if you want that Robertson/Tierney thing or 433 like we have the last two games (my pref).  It's been staring him in the face and I'll never know why he moved away from it.

 

That said, I really don't know who would be better and he's certainly got the group buzzing for eachother.

 

I'm a big enough boy (positive boy, see!) to say water under the bridge.  Which is weird, cos who cares what I think, but you know what I mean - I won't hold personal grudge and make myself miserable!  If this last week is how he's got us BACK to playing then I'm back all in!!!

 

Used to go to every Scotland game at home and an away once a year, even when I lived down south and just about at that rate when I lived overseas too.  Not been since pre-covid, for more reasons than football right enough, but now wanting back IN!!

[JimmyCant]

25 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Hm.  You know me JiG and I'm usually a positive boy but I've not really been on board with Clarke.  I think he started well but we've coasted for quite some time and got lucky a lot.  His insistance on 3/5 at the back and 352 in particular with McGinn at the heart of midfield was ridiculous and has cost us in big games such as at the Euros and the WC qualifier against Ukraine.

 

The Czech game I mention above, for me, is a very good example.  Tierney was not available - the 3 at the back worked well as Tierney steps in to midfield.  He didn't even attempt to address this in any way.  He played his usual formation but didn't strengthen the midfield, leaving both Gilmour (on good form at that point and proved against England he was ready) and McGregor on the bench.  Instead playing McGinn in the mixer where frankly he is a liability (I like McGinn, it's just not his position, not at that level anyway).  He got a massive game completely wrong. He's done it a lot.

 

We've ALWAYS looked best when we've played essentially 3 up top, especially when one of them is McGinn - he wins us the ball high up the park and through sheer madness makes things happen on the ball, and he chips in with goals.  He, Adams and Christie (or Armstrong or Fraser... McKay?) and you can go 343 if you want that Robertson/Tierney thing or 433 like we have the last two games (my pref).  It's been staring him in the face and I'll never know why he moved away from it.

 

That said, I really don't know who would be better and he's certainly got the group buzzing for eachother.

 

I'm a big enough boy (positive boy, see!) to say water under the bridge.  Which is weird, cos who cares what I think, but you know what I mean - I won't hold personal grudge and make myself miserable!  If this last week is how he's got us BACK to playing then I'm back all in!!!

 

Used to go to every Scotland game at home and an away once a year, even when I lived down south and just about at that rate when I lived overseas too.  Not been since pre-covid, for more reasons than football right enough, but now wanting back IN!!

I think when you are so lacking in true class, your next option is to get a group together over a period, who you can mould into something. stick more or less to the same core group most of the time and they’ll gel and start to fight for each other like a club side.

 

This also means you need to play to as many strengths you have as possible, as many players in their best positions as possible. He’s not always done that whether by fault or design and he’s often used an alien system to shoehorn players in. No need for that when your playing the squad game IMO. He got it wrong against Ukraine. That’s the stand out error of his reign. In the Euro finals what let us down was a combination of fatique and the group of players just not being mentally ready for such a huge burden. The only other real bad result was Ireland away. IMO that was down to players being so gutted about the Ukraine result they just couldn’t lift themselves.

 

I think we do okay under Clark given the quality level he has to pick from. We don’t have a striker of the class of Mo Johnston or McCoist or even Miller. We don’t have a centre back of the class of Miller Mcleish Levein Hanson. We don’t have a Souness or a Dalglish.
 

We’re in a great position now to qualify for the next 2 tournaments. It’s not a given of course but Clark has to qualify for at least one of them or it’ll be time for a change, although changing the manager at international level doesn’t always have a good impact.

Edited September 30, 2022 by JimmyCant

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I think when you are so lacking in true class, your next option is to get a group together over a period, who you can mould into something. stick more or less to the same core group most of the time and they’ll gel and start to fight for each other like a club side.

 

This also means you need to play to as many strengths you have as possible, as many players in their best positions as possible. He’s not always done that whether by fault or design and he’s often used an alien system to shoehorn players in. No need for that when your playing the squad game IMO. He got it wrong against Ukraine. That’s the stand out error of his reign. In the Euro finals what let us down was a combination of fatique and the group of players just not being mentally ready for such a huge burden. The only other real bad result was Ireland away. IMO that was down to players being so gutter about the Ukraine result they just couldn’t lift themselves.

 

I think we do okay under Clark given  the quality level he has to pick from. We don’t have a striker of the class of Mo Johnston or McCoist or even Miller. We don’t have a centre back of the class of Miller Mcleish Levein Hanson. 
 

We’re in a great position now to qualify for the next 2 tournaments. It’s not a given of course but Clark has to qualify for at least one of them or it’ll be time for a change, although changing the manager at international level doesn’t always have a good impact.

You're right.  Though I would say he has had other bad results and also a couple we've got away with!

 

What he has done without a doubt is harness a group who want to run through brick walls for their country.  I love the attitude of this group.  I do think we have more quality to choose from than we have for quite some time - it happens to be concentrated in a couple of positions and as you say if we had a standout CH and a standout CF we'd be golden (is it not about time we got lucky with a truly world class CF!!!!????).  That said, Che has been great.  Just needs to pop a couple more goals in to go with his generally outstanding play and work.  Give Che Dykes' goals and we have a complete striker!

 

What's great at present is Hickey, Hendry, Tierney, Patterson, Gilmour, McTom, Che and more all have many many years ahead of them and there are more in the wings - McKenna was impressive and if he keeps improving, he may just get to the levels we need too.

 

As it is, you only really see this group losing Gordon in the next 2 years (how to replace Craig!!!!).  It really is a young group, with even our experienced guys in late 20s rather than 30s.

[Arfur]

I definitely think we look stronger with 4 at the back than with 3 - depending on opposition we could switch between 433, 4231, 451, 4141 formations. We now are starting to see some real strength in depth as well now in some areas. Up front Che and Dykes have been doing well, we have a decent selection of both defensive and offensive minded midfielders, CB is a bit light but Hendry & McKenna are on form at the moment. We have real quality in both full back positions LB - Robertson, Tierney with support from Taylor, Kingsley, Doig to name a few & at RB - Patterson, Hickey with support from Ramsey Ralston.

 

With so many good players in the full back positions Clarke needs to have a good think about strategy - does he pick just one of each or does he try incorporating some of those other talented boys into his team. If he goes for the second option then he will need to play players out of position and I guess the question is does he change formation in order to do so. I personally do not want to go back to a back 3 and I think if we are going to play players out of position let us do so to utilise that players best attributes e.g. I would much rather see an out of position played Tierney being used ahead of Robertson on the left wing than playing as a LCB - same could be done with Patterson playing ahead of Hickey or Ramsey when he breaks through.

 

And that last point comes to my next query - where do we see Hickey playing in the future? I personally would like to see him playing as a deep lying midfielder. Two footed, strong on the ball, defensively strong, great passer of the ball, can stride forward when needed and bulked up in the last 2 seasons. As stated above we have strength in depth at RB but our deep lying midfielders not so much - if we use a 4231 formation you really want 4 quality options to choose from and at the moment we have McTominey, Gilmore & McGregor but then our options drop off a cliff to the likes of McLean and Jack (both of which will always put a shift in for you but they just don’t have the quality of some of the others). A number of coaches have said in the past that this is where they see him playing in the future but surely we want that to be now rather than when he gets a bit older?

[Mikey1874]