Mini Budget

[Don Dan]

https://twitter.com/bighearts/status/1583042899092025344?s=20&t=IMHO3wnjqkW_cVLZiGT1Mw

[The Mighty Thor]

Retail sales fell by more than 1.4% last month which was far more than expected.

 

Government borrowing was £20 billion last month, which was far more than expected.

 

on top of that debt interest payments were far higher than expected thanks to Truss and Howard. 
 

There’s a pattern here. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Retail sales fell by more than 1.4% last month which was far more than expected.

 

Government borrowing was £20 billion last month, which was far more than expected.

 

on top of that debt interest payments were far higher than expected thanks to Truss and Howard. 
 

There’s a pattern here. 

 

My ex gave me a half ounce of indica, normally I'm a sativa man.

 

Far higher than expected

 

[Lovecraft]

*

Edited October 21, 2022 by Lovecraft

[ri Alban]

[The Mighty Thor]

The Halloween statement has been pushed back to the 17th of November and will be a 'full Autumn statement'.

 

The reasoning is so that the Government can 'make the right decisions'

 

Right for who?

 

 

[Cade]

Buying time to bring in every department head and tell them how much they're being slashed by.

 

This is going to be brutal.

Worse than 2008.

Worse that 2010.

 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

Buying time to bring in every department head and tell them how much they're being slashed by.

 

This is going to be brutal.

Worse than 2008.

Worse that 2010.

 

 

The time bought means they are basing it on improved gilt rates leading to less spending cuts. 

[ri Alban]

Change thread title to mini PM. 

[Unknown user]

11 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Change thread title to mini PM. 

pm

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

pm

Prime Minister. Or Pish Mark.

[Mikey1874]

 

[Footballfirst]

A lot of info on tomorrow's budget appears being leaked by the looks of it.

 

This from Beth Rigby

 

Autumn Statement: Key message we be about addressing inflation, which at a 41-year high. What to expect on tax rises and sending cuts in order to get national debt falling w/in 5 years: Expect CX to outline £54bn of tax rises/spending cuts in total. What will it look like?

TAX: Hear CX earmarking £24bn of tax increases in 5 yrs to 2027/8. Told those w broadest shoulders bear most but pain all around -Expect all tax thresholds [NI/IT] to be frozen -Big increase in energy windfall tax + new tax on elec generators -45p threshold to £125k (from £150k)

SPENDING: £30bn spending cuts -Hearing depts will have to live w/in envelope of March Spending Review, when inflation at c3%, so real terms cuts across board, apart from NHS which will get increases -Beyond 2024, rate of growth 1%, so that very big squeeze. V tough choices

ENERGY BILLS: - Annual energy bills for typical HH capped at £2,500 - Hearing that cap will rise to £3,000 in April 2023 - Also hear they'll be additional payments for low income households/pensioners (told this helps 8m people)

SUPPORT: Sunak told me in Bali at #G20 wanted to be “compassionate and fair” in AS - Benefits expected to be uprated by inflation (govt would have saved £5bn if lifted in line with earnings) - Pensions expected be up uprated by inflation (honouring manifesto triple lock)

Govt will argue this nece to get a grip of inflation, but also going to be very difficult: hope w/in govt is that people will see the attempt at balance (support for most vulnerable). But going to be rough & I expect Qs too on whether CX/PM going too far w tax rise/spend cuts

Edited November 16, 2022 by Footballfirst

[Footballfirst]

If the energy cap does goes up to £3,000 in April without further support, then the rise for many will be eyewatering.  If you add loss of the current £67 monthly subsidy to the £41 per month rise in the cap, then households on DDs will have to find an average £108 a month more.

[Victorian]

There needs to be a credible set of figures to demonstate the national borrowing is sustainable and that a lid can be kept on the debt/GDP ratio in order to placate the markets enough to prevent national borrowing interest rising again.  The Truss/Kwarteng cluster**** needs repaired and tax rises are inevitable.  Back-loaded tax rises like freezing allowances and bands is a fairly sensible way of doing it.  More people steadily captured into income tax and more captured into the higher rates.

 

The right wing moon howlers of the Tory MPs are still raving on about slashing taxes.  They'll never learn.

[The Mighty Thor]

50 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The right wing moon howlers of the Tory MPs are still raving on about slashing taxes.  They'll never learn.

It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff with the Junta.

 

Jezza **** was only telling us on Sunday that he didn't recognise the 4% reduction in GDP from the very thing they all championed for the last 6 years. 

 

His statement tomorrow is handicapped by that 4% hole but he doesn't 'recognise that characterisation'.

 

12 years on and it's back to the bankruptcy of ideas of Gideon's time. 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

51 minutes ago, Victorian said:

There needs to be a credible set of figures to demonstate the national borrowing is sustainable and that a lid can be kept on the debt/GDP ratio in order to placate the markets enough to prevent national borrowing interest rising again.  The Truss/Kwarteng cluster**** needs repaired and tax rises are inevitable.  Back-loaded tax rises like freezing allowances and bands is a fairly sensible way of doing it.  More people steadily captured into income tax and more captured into the higher rates.

 

The right wing moon howlers of the Tory MPs are still raving on about slashing taxes.  They'll never learn.

They need to be tackling higher and top rate tax relief on pension contributions. Make it basic rate relief for everyone or else a flat rate of 25% for all. It's a giveaway to the well off, most of whom vote Conservative. Someone earning £90k to £150k can claim tax relief of £16k a year yet pay back a fraction of that when they take their pension. Not to mention that National Insurance drops from 12% to 2% at £50k.

 

Even George Osborne wanted to tackle it in his last budget in 2016 but shat the bed so as not to affect the Brexit vote. It is estimated to cost the treasury £10bn + a year.

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff with the Junta.

 

Jezza **** was only telling us on Sunday that he didn't recognise the 4% reduction in GDP from the very thing they all championed for the last 6 years. 

 

His statement tomorrow is handicapped by that 4% hole but he doesn't 'recognise that characterisation'.

 

12 years on and it's back to the bankruptcy of ideas of Gideon's time. 

 

 

Chunt was actually a remainer. As were May and Truss.

[joondalupjambo]

Handing anything to already well off / rich pensioners is the one thing that I do not get?  Many think that group all vote Tory but they most certainly do not.  The problem is being able to target monies to the less well off / low income / poor pensioners when looking at State Pensions. 

 

However that all said I think this might be a bit of smoke and mirrors with them handing an inflation linked 10% increase to that group.  Could it potentially take a large number over ant threshold's that mean they lose out on Pension Credit's for example thus saving a lot of payouts?

 

Not sure because luckily enough not in this situation.  One thing is for sure though I do not need, nor does my wife need a 10% State Pension increase.  

[Mikey1874]

45% tax rate starts at £125,000 instead of £150,000.

 

Dividend tax threshold reduced. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Mikey1874]

Electric vehicles no longer exempt from vehicle excise duty from 2025.

[Mikey1874]

'No objection to windfall taxes'. 

 

Levy increased from 25% to 35% plus new 45% on energy generators. 

 

Another expected. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Tax thresholds frozen but again as expected.

[Mikey1874]

Spending more on 'budget fraud and error' but errors have led to people not getting benefits and many benefits go unclaimed. Should lead to more spending not savings. 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Electric vehicles no longer exempt from vehicle excise duty from 2025.

The whole move to Electric Vehicles is going well 😂

[Malinga the Swinga]

Health Service budget protected which will please most.

[Footballfirst]

Departmental spending limited to that announced in March (assumed 3% inflation). Departments will have to absorb inflation above that, i.e. cut services or staffing.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Increase in tax burden overall but with furlough to pay for, that can't be a surprise to anyone. Did people really expect to get paid without working and not see tax increases. Never going to happen 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Health Service budget protected which will please most.

 

The review of staff is needed. Currently rely on immigration as only train (very expensive) around half the staff needed in UK. But they might not like what it costs. 

 

(the controversy isn't about immigration but more about weakening the health care sectors of poorer countries by taking their trained staff) 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Increase in tax burden overall but with furlough to pay for, that can't be a surprise to anyone. Did people really expect to get paid without working and not see tax increases. Never going to happen 

 

1% increase overall in tax

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The review of staff is needed. Currently rely on immigration as only train (very expensive) around half the staff needed in UK. But they might not like what it costs. 

 

(the controversy isn't about immigration but more about weakening the health care sectors of poorer countries by taking their trained staff) 

They undoubtedly won't like it, but they will have to grin and bear it.

[Mikey1874]

£1.5 billion extra for Scottish Government which might have been a surprise. 

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

£1.5 billion extra for Scottish Government which might have been a surprise. 

Smurfs ragin 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

They undoubtedly won't like it, but they will have to grin and bear it.

 

The health service destroys all the right wing arguments about immigration. The NHS runs on immigration. Changing that is sensible though very expensive but also more opportunities for younger native British. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

£1.5 billion extra for Scottish Government which might have been a surprise. 

I see Wales getting extra as well. No idea why amounts differ but will guess the SNP will be unhappy

[Mikey1874]

Some 'levelling up' measures with high speed rail, broadband. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Good to see the deck chairs being re-arranged.

 

Nothing to tackle tax evasion or avoidance.

 

Nothing to address the covid fraud.

 

Nothing to address the 4% hole in GDP left by their self imposed economic sanctions.

 

Worth the wait. 

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

'Global reasons' 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

'Using our Brexit freedoms' 😂

 

FFS they've got nothing in the locker. Nothing.

 

Medium term growth at 2.7%? 😂

[Mikey1874]

Energy support from £2500 to £3000 in 2023/24 so pay more but less than suggested by briefings. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mikey1874

[The Mighty Thor]

It's numbers out of thin air stuff.

 

We've been told that the forthcoming recession will be at least 2 years and the deepest since records began.

 

But here you go, the randomiser says.....

 

[Footballfirst]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Some 'levelling up' measures with high speed rail, broadband. 

"Levelling up" is nothing new. It's effectively a replacement for the investment (sometimes less) that came from the EU in the European Regional Development Fund and European Structural Investment Fund.

[manaliveits105]

Impressive statement - the Tories are on the way back baby !! 
 

 

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Energy support from £2500 to £3000 in 2023/24 so pay more but less than suggested by briefings. 

 

Doesn't sound like the credit is continuing for those who work.

 

Increase to £900 for those on benefits

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Impressive statement - the Tories are on the way back baby !! 
 

 

It was. 40 minutes to say **** all. 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Jeff said:

 

Doesn't sound like the credit is continuing for those who work.

 

Increase to £900 for those on benefits

 

No it's continuing for everyone. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was. 40 minutes to say **** all. 

 

Jeremy Hunt looking very self satisfied as he sat down. 

 

Seems like everything is okay. 

 

Apart from

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Jeff]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

No it's continuing for everyone. 

 

Do you have a source? I'm just following Martin Lewis' twitter and he only mentioned those on benefits, pensioners and those with disabilities 

[manaliveits105]

usual snash from labour but no real alternatives 

wait till Hibbypotamus waggles his cheeks 

[SwindonJambo]

13 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

They need to be tackling higher and top rate tax relief on pension contributions. Make it basic rate relief for everyone or else a flat rate of 25% for all. It's a giveaway to the well off, most of whom vote Conservative. Someone earning £90k to £150k can claim tax relief of £16k a year yet pay back a fraction of that when they take their pension. Not to mention that National Insurance drops from 12% to 2% at £50k.

 

Even George Osborne wanted to tackle it in his last budget in 2016 but shat the bed so as not to affect the Brexit vote. It is estimated to cost the treasury £10bn + a year.

And yet another Chancellor fails to address this blatant tax giveaway to the well off. Those affected by the top rate tax threshold dropping to £125k can just put the difference into their pensions, get 45% relief and they're no worse off.