***Official Livingston v Heart of Midlothian Match Thread***

[chrystaf]

4 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Too predictable and far too slow 🐌 

Yep.  We think we can stroke the ball about like Manchester City which all ends up in allowing the opposition to regroup.  That tactic is one reason why we find it so hard to score.

[Avrupa2022]

Neilson is not the answer to take us forward. He gets found out time and time again. I wish He could get it right but I have no fatih in him. Time to search for a prominent figure who can set up a team to win with the sources we have on a more consistent basis. Why He was broıght back still baffles me. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Avrupa2022 said:

Neilson is not the answer to take us forward. He gets found out time and time again. I wish He could get it right but I have no fatih in him. Time to search for a prominent figure who can set up a team to win with the sources we have on a more consistent basis. Why He was broıght back still baffles me. 

Budge’s comfort blanket, safe and doesn’t rock the boat.

[Carter]

4 minutes ago, Paul Shark said:

Boys were mentally fatigued today, but managed to hit 64% possession. See if we can get 4 or 5 free agents in and get the boys mentally right, who would bet against us hitting 67 - 69% possession stats. Goals shmoals, point shmoints, it's the nuances that are important.

There's a mentality issue at Hearts. I hoped that guys like Naismith and McCulloch might have help eradicate it. Seems not.

 

Some of our squad players need to give themselves a shake. I'm looking at GMS in particular with his back story. He's capable of far better than he's offering. 

[chrystaf]

5 hours ago, steve123 said:

wow just wow 

 

Hearts manager Robbie Neilson says the number of missing players played a part in his side's defeat away to Livingston but still thinks his side fell short of their usual standards.

"We should be coming down here and dominating the game for more than a 25-minute period," he tells BBC Scotland.

"We've been chopping and changing the back three and back four, we've had a lot of injuries. That's one of the reasons we're finding it difficult because we don't have a consistent base at the moment.

"I think there's a mental fatigue. We're asking the same players to go again and again. Hopefully, with five days before Thursday, we can get that freshness back."

If he'd stop chopping and changing then we might get somewhere.  I think too much has been made of the two games a week.  And as for mental fatigue, the season is only weeks in.

[oritem8]

Think we will be lucky to win 3 out of the next 15 matches. Making it 4 wins in 20. 
 

See us being managerless for the World Cup break. 

[Kev1998]

Please guys .for gods sake wake up and smell the coffee, 0 shots on goal against them after Wednesday is a complete and utter disgrace.just what did he say to the players after midweek? We are on our way to a fifth place finish ,emptied from Europe and a quick exit from the scottish.bookmark this.he is not the man to take us forward.never has been.

[ramrod]

He is certainly dragging the team down with this physical and mental fatigue chat.

I like the guy and think in the main he has done a very good job over the last few years but this narrative is absolute bollocks and needs hit on the head asap

He is giving the players a ready made excuse for underperforming.

That shit show today was nothing to do with fatigue and everything to do with application. Every player lost his individual battles and that isn't acceptable at a  club like Hearts. 

They let themselves and the club down on Thursday and rubber stamped it today. 

 

[jr ewing]

9 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

If he'd stop chopping and changing then we might get somewhere.  I think too much has been made of the two games a week.  And as for mental fatigue, the season is only weeks in.

Blaming the players that aren't playing is another new one to add to the list 🙄 

[Pasquale for King]

52 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

I’d say our best team will be

 

Gordon

 

Smith

Halkett

Rowles

Kingsley

 

Beni

Devlin

 

Forrest

Boyce

McKay

 

Shankland

 

Even taking Beni out of that due to the long term injury we’ve had Kingsley out since the friendlies, back for some sporadic games here & there, Devlin out at the start, Smith out at points, Halkett out since Zurich, Boyce now out all season, Gordon missed a game. That’s a hell of a lot of key men missing games already considering we’re only a month in, be very hard for any manager to come in & play consistently well with that amount of chopping & changing required week to week when, bare in mind, we’re not a team of superstars.

 

Also the negative Neilson stuff is a full blown myth, we were 3rd top scorers last season & look to play attacking football in the vast majority of games, sometimes we have to defend when other teams throw bodies forward like Hibs did in that final 10, that doesn’t make us a negative team.

 

And as for the 5 losses, one was at Parkhead, one was away to Zurich & one was at home to Zurich in a game we DOMINATED against a much more seasoned European side before Grant stupidly got sent off. The last 2 games were garbage, that’s established, no defence for that, but you can’t sack a manager with a proven track record established over 4.5 seasons at the club because of a 2 week blip, just like we didn’t sack him in February last season before going on a great run to consolidate 3rd & reach a cup final.

 

If you look closely I haven’t said we should sack him. 
We dominate games and possession but create extremely few chances, our final ball and crossing has been awful since he came back with not sign of improvement. Passing the ball around slowly at the back allowing teams to get 11 men behind the ball doesn’t help, with no real idea of how to break them down.
Lets face it the rest of the league were poor last season and will continue to be so thankfully. We haven’t progressed though or brought anyone in that will offer something different, we are predictable. 
As for the 5 losses by early September , what is the point of dominating if we lose? 
You did give me your idea of our best team, I hope Devlin isn’t in it because this German guy has to be better, two DMs that don’t offer much in attack won’t help us progress. We look flat and tired already 8 games in, the fitness levels look poor. 
He’s changed formation in every game, does that seem like someone who is confident in his tactics?

[hmfc1440]

RN reaches a point (3rd) & brain goes blank. List the Scottish teams that have finished 3rd in SPL/SPFLPrem and realise that it is no great feat. 3rd 3 years in a row & group stages in Europe 3 years in a row - now  that's something to hold in regard - but I just don't think Hearts as a club are that bothered.

As it stands one European Group stage every 20 years should suffice - utterly criminal for a club of this stature.

Crikey, 1(one)! European tie & they are "mentally fatigued" - WTF!! We are dramatically underachieving over decades - as is Scottish football in its entirety outside Glasgow. Neilson is just another Manager caught in a never-ending depressing tailspin of inept Scottish Managers.

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, DB-14 said:

You’re saying Devlin isn’t good enough so I question entirely how many games you’ve watched this season.

He was great against Zurich in both games but average in others, couldn’t find a man today at all. 

[Francis Albert]

24 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Correct and no other manager has won two league titles and got us to two SC finals. He's a cup win away from being our best manager since Walker. 

Still won 3 league titles. 

Depends how you define a league title. I define it as being a top of the league. Not the being top of the second third fourth or the fifth or sixth tier. 

Robbie has as yet come nowhere near matching Jeffries league challenge (league as in the whole league not the second division) or McDonald's 1986 side or our second in the league in the Vlad era.

Robbie and Tommy Walker in the same sentence? Really?

[NB GIN]

3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Not much else to say really.

 

 

 

Not a loser but a tinkering idiot 

play the same bloody system 

[baron of ness]

This place is fecking crawling 

With vermin. 

[Shooter McGavin]

This place is honestly reeking, this thread needs put out its misery…

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

We're twice the size (at least) of Dundee United and are far bigger than Hibs and Aberdeen. We should be in third place most seasons with our support, income and budget. Stop making excuses for lacklustre, crap football just because "we've always been inconsistent". That's a losers attitude.  

We are a bigger club than the sheep, Utd and vermin, in terms of support and fan base but where finance and specifically player wages is concerned we have the 4th biggest playing budget in the league, or at least that's my current understanding 

I'm sure the sheep are a tad ahead of us still. 

even if I'm wrong I'll bet my bottom dollar If u look at all the teams playing budgets that you just mentioned we won't be "out spending" these sides to the point where through the difference in spending power, that should mean that we should be getting 3rd every year or have a devine right to it. 

that's not to say it won't change moving forward but that's to do with making sure we get Europe each year, and so we can eventually pull away from the other side's. 

you have to also remember the sheep and Vermin both sold players in the summer which gave them their equivalent of our own European windfall, without actually getting into Europe. 

 

we were third last year, still joint third this year and are on a bit of bad form at this moment in time. That'll happen to all teams in the league bar septic, probably. 

This is far to early to be hitting the panic stations. 

[Nelly Terraces]

Sack him now.

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, baron of ness said:

This place is fecking crawling 

With vermin. 

Agree. Anyone who compares Robbie with Tommy Walker has to be at it. Or incredibly stupid.

[Naisys Tackle]

22 minutes ago, oritem8 said:

Think we will be lucky to win 3 out of the next 15 matches. Making it 4 wins in 20. 
 

See us being managerless for the World Cup break. 

Yeah can see the same tbh.  Run of games coming up arent pretty reading. 

[edramone]

7 minutes ago, baron of ness said:

This place is fecking crawling 

With vermin. 

Agree! Plague quantities of the bitter and twisted on the attempted wind up

[theshed]

31 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

3 wins in 14 is scary for a club like Hearts.

 

Neilson MUST be on a shoogly peg.

Any other league he’d be sacked for that record but other teams around us being just as bad saves him 

[Balaclava]

Really not a fan of this ‘loser’ patter. We can criticise Robbie, absolutely but it seems very petty and personal from grown men. The guys a Scottish cup winner, hardly a loser in my book.

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agree. Anyone who compares Robbie with Tommy Walker has to be at it. Or incredibly stupid.

 

He didn't compare him to Walker though did he?

He said he could be the best since Walker, you've decided to change what he said to have a go. I think you're either at it or ............

Edited September 3, 2022 by graygo

[hearts00]

October is a truly frightening month fixture wise. A brutal run of away league games with Celtic and Rangers at home plus two European ties.

 

we could well be going into Novemebr in a pretty bad place if we don’t get a grip quickly. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by hearts00

[Cruyff]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Depends how you define a league title. I define it as being a top of the league. Not the being top of the second third fourth or the fifth or sixth tier. 

Robbie has as yet come nowhere near matching Jeffries league challenge (league as in the whole league not the second division) or McDonald's 1986 side or our second in the league in the Vlad era.

Robbie and Tommy Walker in the same sentence? Really?

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here and that takes some doing. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

We're twice the size (at least) of Dundee United and are far bigger than Hibs and Aberdeen. We should be in third place most seasons with our support, income and budget. Stop making excuses for lacklustre, crap football just because "we've always been inconsistent". That's a losers attitude.  

Spot on, far too prevalent in our fan base. 

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agree. Anyone who compares Robbie with Tommy Walker has to be at it. Or incredibly stupid.

what's the weather like on your planet. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

We are a bigger club than the sheep, Utd and vermin, in terms of support and fan base but where finance and specifically player wages is concerned we have the 4th biggest playing budget in the league, or at least that's my current understanding 

I'm sure the sheep are a tad ahead of us still. 

even if I'm wrong I'll bet my bottom dollar If u look at all the teams playing budgets that you just mentioned we won't be "out spending" these sides to the point where through the difference in spending power, that should mean that we should be getting 3rd every year or have a devine right to it. 

that's not to say it won't change moving forward but that's to do with making sure we get Europe each year, and so we can eventually pull away from the other side's. 

you have to also remember the sheep and Vermin both sold players in the summer which gave them their equivalent of our own European windfall, without actually getting into Europe. 

 

we were third last year, still joint third this year and are on a bit of bad form at this moment in time. That'll happen to all teams in the league bar septic, probably. 

This is far to early to be hitting the panic stations. 

Utd wages are half ours apparently, Hibs and Aberdeen are around the same for crap teams that have sold well but maybe weakened them. 

[Burford Jamtart]

21 minutes ago, DB-14 said:

You’re saying Devlin isn’t good enough so I question entirely how many games you’ve watched this season.

Only been to Ross County live this season, seen the others on TV, always listen on the radio, read the reports, and of course the comments on this forum.

 

Regarding Devlin - can’t fault him for effort and enthusiasm and thought he was very good in the Zurich game at home, but I think he is a bit limited on the ball, his first touch and passing are a bit iffy too.  He’ll put his foot in and gets about the park and for me he is better and more effective in a 4-2-3-1 than in a 3-4-3 system.  
 

So imo he’s just under the borderline in terms of being the quality of player we need for what I think Hearts should be aspiring to achieve.

 

I hope I’m wrong of course.

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on here and that takes some doing. 

Instead of rolling on the floor laughing can you explai?. Do you equate winning the championship with winning the league. Or even finishing second (or third or fourth or whatever) in the league with winning the second division (sorry " championship").   And do you really think comparing Robbie's achievements in any way  as manager  with those of Tommy Walker is a matter for debate?

[Aussie Jambo]

****ing shite. That’s all. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, Boris5115 said:

Don’t quite agree with you on this one. A majority of supporters I know are not keen u him and I include myself in this category. All about opinions tho as we are all entitled to them. 

 

yeah that poster clearly doesn’t go to the away games or he’d know rightly or wrongly that lots of fans who go to the games are not particularly keen on neilson

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

“ducking”

 

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Utd wages are half ours apparently, Hibs and Aberdeen are around the same for crap teams that have sold well but maybe weakened them. 

I get that but Utd are bottom of the league and have just sacked their manager.

 

I was responding to the posters first point specifically about the finance stuff as he was saying that because of what we were spending, we should already have a head start on the vermin and sheep, and that isn't necessarily true, yet. We have to set the bar high and achieve moving forward to pull away - fully understand that point.

 

The vermin are in dire straits with who they have signed. The sheep not so much, but we r watching European football for the first time in a long long time, and still joint 3rd in the league. These 2 clubs will b watching us with envy. 

 

Yes, we have hit a bit of bad form at the moment and it is a bit of a concern and is frustrating, but less than 2 weeks ago, we dominated the Swiss champions in our own backyard till grants stupid red card. We ain't a bad side and won't have turned into one overnight. 

 

I would never swop what we have now for what we had before these days, that's for sure and you know exactly what I'm referring too.

Some folk have short memories. 

I was one that wanted Robbie gone at the beginning but he has slowly won me round. For now anyway. 

 

Do I think he is perfect, no absolutely not. My one frustration is that he doesn't have the attitude of someone like big Ange at Septic, who doesn't change anything, tactically, regardless of who he is playing and makes too many changes but that's just my own opinion. I ain't a football manager. It's also all down to manager preference, some tweak because of the opposition, some don't. 

 

I'm being totally honest. Since AB took the reins in 2014 this is the happiest and probably most content I have ever been and purely because I now feel the club is being run properly and professionally and my own paranoia of jobs for the boys, at the expense of our great club and the standards that need to be set, has all but left me. 

 

I don't want the manager gone.

Do I think he is the Messiah ?  F..., No, but calling for his head after some wobbly form and given the turmoil that went on not that long ago, is just ludicrous in my book. 

 

Judge his performance at the end of the season and rightly so, but it's far to early to be doing it now.

He got us 3rd last year, European football, he has us in joint 3rd right now. 3rd in the league is our main objective this year.The objective is still very much on.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Silvery_Moon said:

Which is why I stopped at 'questions needing asked'. No need to go further than that - yet.

 

😃👍

[Naisys Tackle]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Instead of rolling on the floor laughing can you explai?. Do you equate winning the championship with winning the league. Or even finishing second (or third or fourth or whatever) in the league with winning the second division (sorry " championship").   And do you really think comparing Robbie's achievements in any way  as manager  with those of Tommy Walker is a matter for debate?

Pissing the league the year out of Admin and with Rangers and Hibs in it was an achievement. A very good achievement.   

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I get that but Utd are bottom of the league and have just sacked their manager.

 

I was responding to the posters first point specifically about the finance stuff as he was saying that because of what we were spending, we should already have a head start on the vermin and sheep, and that isn't necessarily true, yet. We have to set the bar high and achieve moving forward to pull away - fully understand that point.

 

The vermin are in dire straits with who they have signed. The sheep not so much, but we r watching European football for the first time in a long long time, and still joint 3rd in the league. These 2 clubs will b watching us with envy. 

 

Yes, we have hit a bit of bad form at the moment and it is a bit of a concern and is frustrating, but less than 2 weeks ago, we dominated the Swiss champions in our own backyard till grants stupid red card. We ain't a bad side and won't have turned into one overnight. 

 

I would never swop what we have now for what we had before these days, that's for sure and you know exactly what I'm referring too.

Some folk have short memories. 

I was one that wanted Robbie gone at the beginning but he has slowly won me round. For now anyway. 

 

Do I think he is perfect, no absolutely not. My one frustration is that he doesn't have the attitude of someone like big Ange at Septic, who doesn't change anything, tactically, regardless of who he is playing and makes too many changes but that's just my own opinion. I ain't a football manager. It's also all down to manager preference, some tweak because of the opposition, some don't. 

 

I'm being totally honest. Since AB took the reins in 2014 this is the happiest and probably most content I have ever been and purely because I now feel the club is being run properly and professionally and my own paranoia of jobs for the boys, at the expense of our great club and the standards that need to be set, has all but left me. 

 

I don't want the manager gone.

Do I think he is the Messiah ?  F..., No, but calling for his head after some wobbly form and given the turmoil that went on not that long ago, is just ludicrous in my book. 

 

Judge his performance at the end of the season and rightly so, but it's far to early to be doing it now.

He got us 3rd last year, European football, he has us in joint 3rd right now. 3rd in the league is our main objective this year.The objective is still very much on.

Fair enough, I’ve not called for his head though. 
I think we have a good enough squad to do so much better but if they’re only going to get up for European games we will struggle. 
Managers lose games by allowing the players to have excuses, pitches, tiredness etc. 
Im not the only one criticising him though. 

[Hearts1975]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Fair enough, I’ve not called for his head though. 
I think we have a good enough squad to do so much better but if they’re only going to get up for European games we will struggle. 
Managers lose games by allowing the players to have excuses, pitches, tiredness etc. 
Im not the only one criticising him though. 

I know u weren't. I was just reading through some of the other threads and posts at the time, and started banging away at the keyboard, and I went off on a complete tangent as a result. 

It wasn't to do with anything u said so apologies if that's how it came across.

Should have just stuck to the points you were actually making when responding. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Joe will be in Budge's lug as we speak.

[Debut 4]

7 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Fully agree. We play chess football at times. 

Football by numbers, mate. Professional players have played football all their lives but get micro

managed to f*k.  Can’t we give them their own minds and let them

play?

 

That would be too easy. They obviously need a system to lay to but football is draining now. It’s over managed. 

[Cruyff]

36 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Instead of rolling on the floor laughing can you explai?. Do you equate winning the championship with winning the league. Or even finishing second (or third or fourth or whatever) in the league with winning the second division (sorry " championship").   And do you really think comparing Robbie's achievements in any way  as manager  with those of Tommy Walker is a matter for debate?

Let me get this right. In the world of Francis Albert - anyone who has won a league title at any level, whether that be the amateurs, juniors, pub league or youth level - I'm very sorry to tell you all but you may as well chuck all your medals in the bucket because they don't count as it wasn't the Premier League.

 

That is beyond ridiculous. 

 

Secondly, just so you can read it again, here's the quote that you've managed to  bend out of shape. 

 

..."He's a cup win away from being our best manager since Walker"...

 

Since Walker. 

 

Since meaning, ..."in the intervening period between (the time mentioned) and the time under consideration, typically the present"...

 

No one compared Robbie with Walker. 

[Des Lynam]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think he’s a loser. I DO think he’s got himself into a wee hole here for the first time since he came back. Forget the headline bad results from a while back, this is a bad run and the last 2 games particularly say to me we’re in a rut he’ll need to find a way to get out of very quickly.

 

To use the term ‘mental fatique’ this early in the season is very concerning. It says to me he doesn’t know what’s wrong, far less how to fix it. Needs to find something here or the vultures will start circling.

 

Better squad, worse performances. There is only one way that’s ending if it carries on.

Good post Jimmy. I don’t want him sacked or anything ridiculous like that but this inability in being allowed to criticise has become tiresome. We are on a bad run since the semi against hibs but the context to that was we secured third place early and teams do switch off no matter what level you are. The slow ineffective football at times is frustrating to watch and the excuses such as mental fatigue are nonsense. 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Instead of rolling on the floor laughing can you explai?. Do you equate winning the championship with winning the league. Or even finishing second (or third or fourth or whatever) in the league with winning the second division (sorry " championship").   And do you really think comparing Robbie's achievements in any way  as manager  with those of Tommy Walker is a matter for debate?

I would definitely give him credit for winning the Championship with rangers and hibs in the league. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

I know u weren't. I was just reading through some of the other threads and posts at the time, and started banging away at the keyboard, and I went off on a complete tangent as a result. 

It wasn't to do with anything u said so apologies if that's how it came across.

Should have just stuck to the points you were actually making when responding. 

It’s ok we’re all a bit emotional after a bad defeat and a bad run.

Hopefully we can get out this wee rut on Thursday. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Football by numbers, mate. Professional players have played football all their lives but get micro

managed to f*k.  Can’t we give them their own minds and let them

play?

 

That would be too easy. They obviously need a system to lay to but football is draining now. It’s over managed. 

It’s a good point, for example we kept hitting corners in on Wednesday at a height perfect for Taylor and the GK, nobody thought **** this let’s change it up a bit. Same today with this offside trap, caught by out at least twice trying to implement it and could’ve lost another goal because of it. 

[Arthur Morgan]

3 hours ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

Joe will be in Budge's lug as we speak.

 

That's the good thing having JS at the club, I'm sure if we underperform for too long, he will be. Too early for that though imo, hopefully we can turn things around. 

[Sir PH]

6 hours ago, Voxpop said:

Where were we last season.  Third and a cup final. That’s as good as it gets.

I couldn't give a toss about cup finals unless we win them. 

[Sir PH]

6 hours ago, Paul Shark said:

Boys were mentally fatigued today, but managed to hit 64% possession. See if we can get 4 or 5 free agents in and get the boys mentally right, who would bet against us hitting 67 - 69% possession stats. Goals shmoals, point shmoints, it's the nuances that are important.

Aye, who cares that we lost the game after another pitiful performance. We had the most possession, and that's what really matters.....

[Sir PH]

6 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

We are a bigger club than the sheep, Utd and vermin, in terms of support and fan base but where finance and specifically player wages is concerned we have the 4th biggest playing budget in the league, or at least that's my current understanding 

I'm sure the sheep are a tad ahead of us still. 

even if I'm wrong I'll bet my bottom dollar If u look at all the teams playing budgets that you just mentioned we won't be "out spending" these sides to the point where through the difference in spending power, that should mean that we should be getting 3rd every year or have a devine right to it. 

that's not to say it won't change moving forward but that's to do with making sure we get Europe each year, and so we can eventually pull away from the other side's. 

you have to also remember the sheep and Vermin both sold players in the summer which gave them their equivalent of our own European windfall, without actually getting into Europe. 

 

we were third last year, still joint third this year and are on a bit of bad form at this moment in time. That'll happen to all teams in the league bar septic, probably. 

This is far to early to be hitting the panic stations. 

It's not a knee jerk reaction because of yesterday's latest pathetic performance. Neilson should've been binned after Brora. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sir PH