Ginnelly: The Saviour of Hearts

[Hackney Hearts]

10 minutes ago, CMc said:

But he was better. 
 

And won the cup. 
 

If Gino had half of Suso’s self belief he would be a much more useful player. 

 

He may have been better over the piece - but let's not kid ourselves, he was hugely erratic. Yes he won the cup, but so would Gino if Kingsley (of all people) had stuck away his penalty (and against proper opponents).

I also think our expectations are higher now.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Not sure I've seen anyone saying Gino would have been a saviour. Bit of an exaggeration. Bringing on someone able to get in behind the Hibs defence to pin them back a bit more for the end of the game seems like a fairly reasonable opinion in hindsight. Even just someone able to take the ball to the corner flag to waste 30 seconds would've done. Also, it wasn't just the last 20 seconds. That big huddy at the back for them should've put a header away well before Boyle scored. We were living on borrowed time well before they scored. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Cracking thread. 

 

Really highlights the football folk and the folk that know very little. 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Josh isn't good enough, ffs!

Might have been an idea to bring him on late but that really doesn't change the fact. Him and GMS are a waste. 

We need (much) better.

Here's hoping.

 

[i8hibsh]

Gino, GMS, Atkinson, Sibbick, Henderson and Smith are the reason we will just plod along this season. Not one will change a game - they certainly wont win us games. However, 3 weeks to go and all that.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Gino, GMS, Atkinson, Sibbick, Henderson and Smith are the reason we will just plod along this season. Not one will change a game - they certainly wont win us games. However, 3 weeks to go and all that.

 

 

Plod along in 3rd, plod along to cup finals and plod along to European group stage football. 

 

Aye, sounds shite. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

10 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Not sure I've seen anyone saying Gino would have been a saviour. Bit of an exaggeration. Bringing on someone able to get in behind the Hibs defence to pin them back a bit more for the end of the game seems like a fairly reasonable opinion in hindsight. Even just someone able to take the ball to the corner flag to waste 30 seconds would've done. Also, it wasn't just the last 20 seconds. That big huddy at the back for them should've put a header away well before Boyle scored. We were living on borrowed time well before they scored. 

 

Or someone who gives the ball away, can't hold it up and invites even more pressure on the team who are then a man short as he's behind play having been put on his arse or played another jobbie pass. 

 

This thread is really next level captain hindsight stuff. 

 

He could have came in and we could have won, he could have came on and they could have scored earlier then beat us. 

 

No one will know. 

 

Lots of folk just assuming Gino would have played a blinder and we win the game. 

 

 

 

[broxburnjambo]

We will never know if GInnnelly would have made a difference. What I do know is if Sibbick had cleared the ball and we won the game then we would not be having this debate. We would of course still be celebrating. Nielson being criticized for making defensive changes.

 

Again if we had held out for another 30 seconds his tactics would be praised( ok not by everyone one here). 

 

 

[Swimmer]

15 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I might have agreed with you if we were defending our tits off after the changes but we weren’t. 

 

The tactics were working just fine until various defenders forgot to do their jobs for 20 seconds.

 

We weren’t pegged back in any way for the last 20 minutes.

Exactly! If those on the park had done their job, this wouldnt be a discussion point!

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Gino, GMS, Atkinson, Sibbick, Henderson and Smith are the reason we will just plod along this season. Not one will change a game - they certainly wont win us games. However, 3 weeks to go and all that.

Sadly, unless there are 2/3 game changers in the pipeline this is true. To date there has been no substantial upgrade of the squad despite the hugely increased resources available. We’ve stood still at best and if you stand still in football, you go backwards. We shouldn’t be ‘plodding’ We should be ‘motoring’ and this will be a hugely disappointing transfer window unless we’ve got 2/3 incoming to improve it.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 minutes ago, Swimmer said:

Exactly! If those on the park had done their job, this wouldnt be a discussion point!

It’s as if bringing on one attacker would have meant that Hibs didn’t have any attacking plays at all of their own before the game ended.

 

Its all nonsense.

 

Whether Gino was on or not Hibs would have thrown it all at us that last 5 minutes anyway.

 

There wasn’t one moment in the game where I looked at what was going on and thought that we were missing an “out ball”.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Swimmer]

1 minute ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

It’s as if bringing on one attacker would have meant that Hibs didn’t have any attacking plays at all before the game ended.

 

Its all nonsense.

 

Whether Gino was on or not Hibs would have thrown it all at us that last 5 minutes anyway.

 

There wasn’t one moment in the game where I looked at what was going on and thought that we were missing an “out ball”.

I agree, could you imagine the seethe if Robbie put an attacker on and we still conceded! 

 

In hindsight Robbie's decision appeared to be a wrong one. Doesn't account for players switching off long enough to concede in the dying seconds!

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Just now, Swimmer said:

I agree, could you imagine the seethe if Robbie put an attacker on and we still conceded! 

 

In hindsight Robbie's decision appeared to be a wrong one. Doesn't account for players switching off long enough to concede in the dying seconds!

It’s still officially unconfirmed if Smith was injured - it appears he was - but if he was, after Atkinson being left exposed last week it made sense to change formation and have an extra CB behind Atkinson.

 

Arguably that extra defender gave Atkinson the freedom to pile forward for the chance that could have closed out the game for us.

 

On that point people also ignore that Atkinson is a far more attack minded player than Smith so the changes weren’t inherently defensive.

[Dennis Reynolds]

34 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Or someone who gives the ball away, can't hold it up and invites even more pressure on the team who are then a man short as he's behind play having been put on his arse or played another jobbie pass. 

 

This thread is really next level captain hindsight stuff. 

 

He could have came in and we could have won, he could have came on and they could have scored earlier then beat us. 

 

No one will know. 

 

Lots of folk just assuming Gino would have played a blinder and we win the game. 

 

 

 

 

It's a forum for discussion. I really don't understand why you get all pissy pants when folk discuss football. Maybe take a couple days to yourself champ.

[Dr Lager]

Bringing Halliday on worked so well the previous week after all…..

 

lost a 2 goal lead against Crawley, stoke and Ross county scored late goals against us and hibs trumped it with a very late equaliser. 
 

but let’s all just write it off as a serious of unlucky coincidences. 
 

neilson errs on the side of caution towards the end of games and some weeks we will hold on and some weeks we won’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion if we had taken any of the flurry of chances just after half time.

[iansmith]

Its easy to criticise the subs and tactics after the game has finished. If we had held on and won the game everyone would be saying that the decisions made were the correct ones. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

It's a forum for discussion. I really don't understand why you get all pissy pants when folk discuss football. Maybe take a couple days to yourself champ.

 

 

I just point out the obvious and some folk don't like it as they don't have an answer, get frustrated and then get personal. 

 

[Jammy T]

1 hour ago, Dr Lager said:

some weeks we will hold on and some weeks we won’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion if we had taken any of the flurry of chances just after half time.

 

It was ever thus.

 

Sometimes teams that are 1 up lose a late goal, sometimes those same teams hold on, and some times they score a goal on the breakaway.

 

Every team.

 

What you dont get is a uniform approach by teams who are one up away from home throwing on attackers for the last 15 minutes.

 

That must happen never or only if goal difference needs a boost.

 

No?

[Fozzyonthefence]

Ffs!  What an embarrassing OP!

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, Dr Lager said:

Bringing Halliday on worked so well the previous week after all…..

 

lost a 2 goal lead against Crawley, stoke and Ross county scored late goals against us and hibs trumped it with a very late equaliser. 
 

but let’s all just write it off as a serious of unlucky coincidences. 
 

neilson errs on the side of caution towards the end of games and some weeks we will hold on and some weeks we won’t, we wouldn’t be having this discussion if we had taken any of the flurry of chances just after half time.

 

Soneone losing their shit over losing goals in pre-season friendlies.

 

 

The rest is just a straw-clutching seethe fest from a Neilson hater.

[Lambo85]

18 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Suso was effective though….

 

Great wee player. Wish we had a winger like that in the squad now!

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Lambo85 said:

 

Great wee player. Wish we had a winger like that in the squad now!

Same, only retired last year

[TheBigO]

This thread!

 

I was one on here yesterday and day before saying I was calling for Gino to come on for Boyce and a bit disa he didn't.  Obvious why.  Those saying he wouldn't have defended the goal...! Missing the point.  Never said we'd still have won, just saying it's a sub I'd have liked to have seen.

 

Which brings me to next point... why does this place need to be so bloody polar!!!??  Some folk saying Neilson is the devil for not doing ABC and others claiming folk are claiming Gino is our saviour!  What a ridiculous thing.  Is it possible that the lunatic fringe on here can be ignored and those up for a discussion of tactical moves in a Hearts game can get on with that?

 

Finally, when did Gino become so terrible???  I'm not saying he's John Colqhoun, but he's a decent player with attributes we can utilise.  He had a tough season last year, interrupted by injury and I get the impression just never really got a run at things.  When called upon (from the start of games) he generally did pretty well and in fact did very well in a couple of games.  Would I shed tears if he left?  Na not really, but is he awful like some seem to have decided - not by a longshot.  Again, the need for extreme opinions which seems to be the bread and butter of many is simply baffling.

[McCrae]

19 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I think the point is we’d have been better making an attacking sub.  
 

big fan of what neilson has achieved, but it’s a fair criticism.

 

Euan Henderson also needs a chance at some points otherwise what’s the point

Very much this. He did the same against County.

[upgotheheads]

19 hours ago, OTT said:

 

I'm talking about how often he'd chuck on Suso to defend a lead. Best defence is a good offence and nothing worse when you're pushing for an equaliser than having a speedy winger breaking away. 

 

I can't remember Halliday actually touching the ball after he came on. I think it depends on circumstances as to whether you put on a defensive player or an attacker when you are defending a lead, but H1b5 were certainly gaining the upper hand after we failed to score several chances. I'm with you on this one though, maybe a rule of thumb would be that if you are defending a one goal lead and the opposition is gaining the upper hand then put on a pacey attacker, If you have two goal lead put on a defender.

[jambonian]

4 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Sadly, unless there are 2/3 game changers in the pipeline this is true. To date there has been no substantial upgrade of the squad despite the hugely increased resources available. We’ve stood still at best and if you stand still in football, you go backwards. We shouldn’t be ‘plodding’ We should be ‘motoring’ and this will be a hugely disappointing transfer window unless we’ve got 2/3 incoming to improve it.

I think the squad is still a wee bit weaker than last season. When Simms arrived we held the ball up and got players forward. And before anyone mentions Shankland, he's a different type of player. Then there's no replacement for Souttar as yet. Rowles has came in as a replacement for Berra (left-sided at last!) but now a Souttar replacement is needed. Not sure yet if one or two others are any better than what left but, time will tell. There is more cash this season so one or two better quality players coming in and pushing us on, particularly with Europe coming could be the difference. If not, all the hard work done last season could be seen as a waste. 

[jambonian]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I can't remember Halliday actually touching the ball after he came on. I think it depends on circumstances as to whether you put on a defensive player or an attacker when you are defending a lead, but H1b5 were certainly gaining the upper hand after we failed to score several chances. I'm with you on this one though, maybe a rule of thumb would be that if you are defending a one goal lead and the opposition is gaining the upper hand then put on a pacey attacker, If you have two goal lead put on a defender.

If you have a Henderson, Ginelly or whoever on the bench then use them to get the ball further up the park, take it for a walk and take the pressure off the defence. For me, bringing on more defensive players encourages the opposition to keep plugging away, we saw it in the Hibs Cup tie in 2016 when we were 8 minutes away from full-time, comfortable in a 2-0 lead and we became defensive. Anytime you get the ball away up the field there's a lack of options and the pressure is back on again when they come back time and time again. The inevitable happens. 

[Dr Lager]

2 hours ago, Jammy T said:

 

It was ever thus.

 

Sometimes teams that are 1 up lose a late goal, sometimes those same teams hold on, and some times they score a goal on the breakaway.

 

Every team.

 

What you dont get is a uniform approach by teams who are one up away from home throwing on attackers for the last 15 minutes.

 

That must happen never or only if goal difference needs a boost.

 

No?

I think we are at risk of becoming a bit predictable and bringing someone like Halliday on sends a message that we are holding on. Not expecting us to pour on three wingers every week but we need to let the opposition know that we have not settled for what we’ve got. We are currently routinely conceding the last goal most games so if we are only one goal up then we take a risk.

[Dr Lager]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Soneone losing their shit over losing goals in pre-season friendlies.

 

 

The rest is just a straw-clutching seethe fest from a Neilson hater.

great logical well constructed post. Plenty people making reasoned defences of neilson but there’s always one.

 

[Hackney Hearts]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Finally, when did Gino become so terrible???  I'm not saying he's John Colqhoun, but he's a decent player with attributes we can utilise.  He had a tough season last year, interrupted by injury and I get the impression just never really got a run at things.  When called upon (from the start of games) he generally did pretty well and in fact did very well in a couple of games.  Would I shed tears if he left?  Na not really, but is he awful like some seem to have decided - not by a longshot.  Again, the need for extreme opinions which seems to be the bread and butter of many is simply baffling.

 

Welcome to social media!

 

Agree about Gino, I'd prefer not to lose him.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I can't remember Halliday actually touching the ball after he came on. I think it depends on circumstances as to whether you put on a defensive player or an attacker when you are defending a lead, but H1b5 were certainly gaining the upper hand after we failed to score several chances. I'm with you on this one though, maybe a rule of thumb would be that if you are defending a one goal lead and the opposition is gaining the upper hand then put on a pacey attacker, If you have two goal lead put on a defender.

I remember two particular touches he had in our last home derby.

 

I find it hard to believe that people seriously think bringing Halliday on was a bad shout. Anyway, he only came on the the 87th minute.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

3 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Welcome to social media!

 

Agree about Gino, I'd prefer not to lose him.

I like Gino to be honest. 
 

But I’d prefer an upgrade.

 

Its what we should be doing…

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

If you have a Henderson, Ginelly or whoever on the bench then use them to get the ball further up the park, take it for a walk and take the pressure off the defence. For me, bringing on more defensive players encourages the opposition to keep plugging away, we saw it in the Hibs Cup tie in 2016 when we were 8 minutes away from full-time, comfortable in a 2-0 lead and we became defensive. Anytime you get the ball away up the field there's a lack of options and the pressure is back on again when they come back time and time again. The inevitable happens. 

Exactly, good teams keep going at 2 nil to get more goals, best form of defence is attack. 

[Chillidigits]

I hope this season we use our subs more effectively. There were guys on the bench for a lot of last season that I'd forgotten what they were capable of so rarely were they utelised. I imagine when you're sitting there you're hungry to show the boss what you've got but kept on a starvation diet weakens the squad imo. Robbie has to have belief this season that each bench warmer can positively affect the game as and when required . If he doesn't have that belief then their presence is a waste of time,space and wages.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

52 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, good teams keep going at 2 nil to get more goals, best form of defence is attack. 

But not many teams that are 1 nil up go to all our attack for the last 15 minutes away from home.

 

Do they?

 

I am genuinely prepared to be corrected.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

7 minutes ago, Chillidigits said:

I hope this season we use our subs more effectively. There were guys on the bench for a lot of last season that I'd forgotten what they were capable of so rarely were they utelised. I imagine when you're sitting there you're hungry to show the boss what you've got but kept on a starvation diet weakens the squad imo. Robbie has to have belief this season that each bench warmer can positively affect the game as and when required . If he doesn't have that belief then their presence is a waste of time,space and wages.

We can reassess this post when the window is shut and we can assess the squad.

[Holyrood_Hearts]

On 09/08/2022 at 18:07, kingantti1874 said:

I think the point is we’d have been better making an attacking sub.  
 

big fan of what neilson has achieved, but it’s a fair criticism.

 

Euan Henderson also needs a chance at some points otherwise what’s the point

Same with Connor Smith too. Why give them new deals then not give them any opportunity

[Thumperbeni]

5 hours ago, TheBigO said:

This thread!

 

I was one on here yesterday and day before saying I was calling for Gino to come on for Boyce and a bit disa he didn't.  Obvious why.  Those saying he wouldn't have defended the goal...! Missing the point.  Never said we'd still have won, just saying it's a sub I'd have liked to have seen.

 

Which brings me to next point... why does this place need to be so bloody polar!!!??  Some folk saying Neilson is the devil for not doing ABC and others claiming folk are claiming Gino is our saviour!  What a ridiculous thing.  Is it possible that the lunatic fringe on here can be ignored and those up for a discussion of tactical moves in a Hearts game can get on with that?

 

Finally, when did Gino become so terrible???  I'm not saying he's John Colqhoun, but he's a decent player with attributes we can utilise.  He had a tough season last year, interrupted by injury and I get the impression just never really got a run at things.  When called upon (from the start of games) he generally did pretty well and in fact did very well in a couple of games.  Would I shed tears if he left?  Na not really, but is he awful like some seem to have decided - not by a longshot.  Again, the need for extreme opinions which seems to be the bread and butter of many is simply baffling.

GINO is not a good football player, very slow in decision making, nearly always makes runs into areas where he can’t/won’t receive a pass which tells me he’s not confident in himself and hides during games, his delivery is shite and all in all I just don’t think he is good enough to be playing at a club like hearts hence the reason he is always on the bench and isn’t called upon. Just my opinion.

[The Grim Reaper]

Another who has deteriorated under the current coaching setup. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, good teams keep going at 2 nil to get more goals, best form of defence is attack. 

 

 

It's really not, the best form of defence is defence. 

 

 

[frankblack]

Just now, The Grim Reaper said:

Another who has deteriorated under the current coaching setup. 

 

Complete bollocks.

 

He wasn't even in the picture at Preston hence we got him on loan, and he was on loan at Bristol Rovers before us.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

1 hour ago, The Grim Reaper said:

Another who has deteriorated under the current coaching setup. 

Another?

 

Halkett - improved

Kingsley - improved significantly 

Cochrane  - improved significantly 

Atkinson - improving

Cammy - improving

McKay  - improved significantly 

 

GMS - unchanged, disappointing (teach old dog new tricks?)

Ginnelly - improved initially and stalled

 

Sibbick - work in progress 

Rowles - work in progress

L Neilson - unknown

 

Shankland - work in progress 

Forest - as above

Grant - as above

 

Who has gone downhill?

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[N Lincs Jambo]

17 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, good teams keep going at 2 nil to get more goals, best form of defence is attack. 

 

Completely agree. I know he's already been mentioned further up the thread but one-nil, two-nil, keep going as Suso Santana did in a classic derby at Tynecastle. Last few minutes of the game and we're one-nil up. Suso gets the ball at the main stand touchline. The bench are screaming for him to take it to the corner flag and waste time (a tactic I have always hated). Suso thinks feck that for a game of soldiers, cuts inside, heads towards to goal and rolls it in from a tight angle. Bedlam in the stands, two-nil, game over and goodnight Vienna for the vermin.  

[Spellczech]

He has a little more skill than some of our previous "fast wingers" who pretty much could run fast in a straight line either with or without the ball, but is he the answer? I doubt it...

 

As he proved in the Cup Final, he can be a good sub if we are losing but that's about it. I would call that Plan C.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Spellczech

[Pasquale for King]

42 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Completely agree. I know he's already been mentioned further up the thread but one-nil, two-nil, keep going as Suso Santana did in a classic derby at Tynecastle. Last few minutes of the game and we're one-nil up. Suso gets the ball at the main stand touchline. The bench are screaming for him to take it to the corner flag and waste time (a tactic I have always hated). Suso thinks feck that for a game of soldiers, cuts inside, heads towards to goal and rolls it in from a tight angle. Bedlam in the stands, two-nil, game over and goodnight Vienna for the vermin.  

Definitely, a similar type game where we had missed chances, Paulo put Suso on to help us keep the ball away from our goal and as you say the wee man did the rest. 

[Pasquale for King]

17 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

But not many teams that are 1 nil up go to all our attack for the last 15 minutes away from home.

 

Do they?

 

I am genuinely prepared to be corrected.

Who asked for all out attack, trying to see out a game from 60 minutes rarely works for Neilson. If you invite a team on to you then you need to offer something more on the break than we did on Sunday. Adding some pace and turning their awful defence would’ve wasted enough time see it out. You have to get the balance right, I’ve nothing against an extra CH with a few minutes to go but this was with a third of the game left. 
Good teams keep going against inferior opposition home and away, until we get that attitude we won’t progress in any meaningful fashion. 

[Pasquale for King]

18 hours ago, Chillidigits said:

I hope this season we use our subs more effectively. There were guys on the bench for a lot of last season that I'd forgotten what they were capable of so rarely were they utelised. I imagine when you're sitting there you're hungry to show the boss what you've got but kept on a starvation diet weakens the squad imo. Robbie has to have belief this season that each bench warmer can positively affect the game as and when required . If he doesn't have that belief then their presence is a waste of time,space and wages.

Spot on, especially this season where rotating the squad will be of paramount importance to keep the main guys fresh. 

[Pasquale for King]

Close thread. 
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-exit-on-the-cards-for-josh-ginnelly-3801858

[broxburnjambo]

56 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Close thread. 
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-exit-on-the-cards-for-josh-ginnelly-3801858

He can't leave, after all, he is our saviour...

 

 

Not surprised to be honest. Hope he finds something soon. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, broxburnjambo said:

He can't leave, after all, he is our saviour...

 

 

Not surprised to be honest. Hope he finds something soon. 

Good luck to the guy.