Potential new training facilities.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Well at least our staff at Tynecastle won't be charged £500 / year to park their car at work.

Let me know when that happens

[WheatfieldWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Let me know when that happens

 

My point is that it is unlikely to happen this term now as it was an SNP / Greens policy.

[Unknown user]

Just now, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

My point is that it is unlikely to happen this term now as it was an SNP / Greens policy.

I'm with you now, we'll see what happens.

[WheatfieldWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm with you now, we'll see what happens.

 

Yip.

 

Anyway... meanwhile back to the Oriam...

 

My take is that the facilities at the Oriam are probably pretty good and it will take a substantial outlay to improve on.

 

Plans are probably just a negotiating position as others have outlined, but the privacy point is interesting, do we know any more about that? is it a concern that folk can just pop in and spy on bob's tactics?  is it about access to watch and pinch young players or is the long line of Cammy Devlin groupies just getting out of hand....

It may just be that it's a bit of a distraction of course.

 

Maybe a second indoor pitch on the same site is an option, particularly if demand has grown, or maybe we could have our own one on the same site.

 

 

[OTT]

22 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

“For me personally having your own training ground is crucial for the personal development of your players. Going forward we would love to have our own training ground…“

 

- Joe Savage 

 

Definitely get the impression Savage is a driving force behind this because it was never even mentioned during the Levein days 

 

 

It must be quite frustrating when you want to X,Y,Z with the squad but can't because those facilities are booked etc. so can sympathise with Savage and Neilsons frustrations on this. It maybe feels tin pot when you're restricted with when you can do stuff because you don't own the facilities. 

 

Its difficult because you want to see the club develop, and part of that development will invariably mean getting facilities of our own but its not like you can really make much if anything from training facilities, optimistically, youth development and selling those players on, but how often does that happen?. Spending £15-25m on facilities is a massive outlay and if we spent it on the stadium we'd probably increase our turnover, be that increased capacity, more hospitality etc. 

 

Perhaps there is scope to buy land around Currie, Loanhead, Danderhall or Bonnyrigg. Being closer to an area where there are people could mean a members gym or something could be opened up to try and make the land a bit more active and able to make the club money. 

 

Opportunity cost is a bitch... 😕 

[Unknown user]

35 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

It must be quite frustrating when you want to X,Y,Z with the squad but can't because those facilities are booked etc. so can sympathise with Savage and Neilsons frustrations on this. It maybe feels tin pot when you're restricted with when you can do stuff because you don't own the facilities. 

 

Its difficult because you want to see the club develop, and part of that development will invariably mean getting facilities of our own but its not like you can really make much if anything from training facilities, optimistically, youth development and selling those players on, but how often does that happen?. Spending £15-25m on facilities is a massive outlay and if we spent it on the stadium we'd probably increase our turnover, be that increased capacity, more hospitality etc. 

 

Perhaps there is scope to buy land around Currie, Loanhead, Danderhall or Bonnyrigg. Being closer to an area where there are people could mean a members gym or something could be opened up to try and make the land a bit more active and able to make the club money. 

 

Opportunity cost is a bitch... 😕 

 

I'd really like us to stay put, there must be some way we can get what we need, especially if we're willing to spend money.

 

Quite apart from anything else, let's not underestimate the "pull" of a university full of student lassies if you're a professional athlete considering his next move! Would you choose that or an East Lothian sausage party?

[Section Q]

On 26/05/2022 at 18:01, lost in space said:

I dont disagree with your post but there is advantages to renting/leasing.

Hearts may be paying £400k per year - but hobos will also have bills to pay.

By paying the rent, I presume this covers taxes / power/ maintenance/ wages (for security/grass cutting/repairs etc).

It makes sense if we share costs with HW - as long as the rent is not too high.

As you have mentioned - not easy to find available flat land near Edinburgh at a price we can afford.

I hope we can re-negotiate with HW - it should be better for both HW and ourselves.

HUW will miss a rental income of nearly half a million a year and unlikely they'll find another tenant if we leave. Sounds like we're putting them on notice. Improved lease maybe....?

[henry]

Geographically is important, would be best for it to be easily accessible for parents to get kids there for training. Think hibs struggle with that because it’s a bit far away. 

[Hesh]

10 minutes ago, henry said:

Geographically is important, would be best for it to be easily accessible for parents to get kids there for training. Think hibs struggle with that because it’s a bit far away. 

This is spot on. Makes it a far better option for players across the central belt if it’s on the west side of the ‘city’

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, henry said:

Geographically is important, would be best for it to be easily accessible for parents to get kids there for training. Think hibs struggle with that because it’s a bit far away. 

Yes Riccarton is ideal because it is close to our stadium but also links the very Hearts areas of Balerno Currie and Juniper Green ect …………… it also provides a stepping stone to areas like Uphall Bathgate and Armadale where there were lots of Hearts supporters catching trains to the final last week end

[Cambo]

The best training centre facility in England belongs to Leicester City and realistically, they know that any chance of them becoming a regular top 6 club is very limited. Same for us, we know the top 2 may be out of reach on a regular basis but if we get a really strong foundation in place for the club in terms of facilities and assets, it strengthens us for years to come. Aiming to build a training centre to at least rival the old firm, should be the aim.

[blairdin]

The other advantage of the Oriam is the proximity to Balerno High, where we have places to school a number of our academy players (almost a club equivalent of the SFA performance school set up).

 

Bongo has alluded to issues at the Oriam just now. I hope they can be fixed, as the facilties are terrific and would be very difficult to better if we were building our own training complex.

[washniklaw]

I heard a little bit of info yesterday that the club are trying to find a solution to stay at Oriam.

The plans include rotating pitch 2 and adding a 3rd ‘show pitch’ behind the privacy of fences etc. This would give Hearts enough room away from the public eye. The club could  potentially add extra facilities like bigger gym on top.
I’m not sure if it will be exclusively for Hearts or if Hearts will own it but we already have a positive relationship with HW so it would make sense to build on what’s already there.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

On 28/05/2022 at 20:32, Cambo said:

The best training centre facility in England belongs to Leicester City and realistically, they know that any chance of them becoming a regular top 6 club is very limited. Same for us, we know the top 2 may be out of reach on a regular basis but if we get a really strong foundation in place for the club in terms of facilities and assets, it strengthens us for years to come. Aiming to build a training centre to at least rival the old firm, should be the aim.

Leicester have properly blown their load with theirs and the cost of maintaining it is hideous, as they’re finding out.

 

The golf course doesn’t help like.

[Hungry hippo]

11 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

I heard a little bit of info yesterday that the club are trying to find a solution to stay at Oriam.

The plans include rotating pitch 2 and adding a 3rd ‘show pitch’ behind the privacy of fences etc. This would give Hearts enough room away from the public eye. The club could  potentially add extra facilities like bigger gym on top.
I’m not sure if it will be exclusively for Hearts or if Hearts will own it but we already have a positive relationship with HW so it would make sense to build on what’s already there.

 

Thanks for the update. Staying at Riccarton always seems very likely to be the club's first choice as long as we can get an agreement that suits us. 

 

The fact that we could fund an alternative facility via The Foundation puts the club in a decent negotiating position with Heriot Watt.

[EIEIO]

49 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Thanks for the update. Staying at Riccarton always seems very likely to be the club's first choice as long as we can get an agreement that suits us. 

 

The fact that we could fund an alternative facility via The Foundation puts the club in a decent negotiating position with Heriot Watt.

FoH income could have been a good negotiation tool. Can we now divert the cash to buying the old Tynecastle High School site and filling in the corners (joke).

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, washniklaw said:

I heard a little bit of info yesterday that the club are trying to find a solution to stay at Oriam.

The plans include rotating pitch 2 and adding a 3rd ‘show pitch’ behind the privacy of fences etc. This would give Hearts enough room away from the public eye. The club could  potentially add extra facilities like bigger gym on top.
I’m not sure if it will be exclusively for Hearts or if Hearts will own it but we already have a positive relationship with HW so it would make sense to build on what’s already there.

 

Sounds like Hearts may have been doing a bit of negotiating and using the threat of moving away from Oriam (where they would struggle to find another tenant of similar size to us.)

[gorgieroar]

Since hearts moved to Heriot watt the injuries just keep mounting every year can't ever remember being so bad before is it just a coincidence 

[RustyRightPeg]

5 hours ago, gorgieroar said:

Since hearts moved to Heriot watt the injuries just keep mounting every year can't ever remember being so bad before is it just a coincidence 

Hearts have been training at Heriot Watt since the early to mid 2000s. 

[indianajones]

The lot of them deserve Gullane on a daily basis. 

[Footballfirst]

16 hours ago, washniklaw said:

I heard a little bit of info yesterday that the club are trying to find a solution to stay at Oriam.

The plans include rotating pitch 2 and adding a 3rd ‘show pitch’ behind the privacy of fences etc. This would give Hearts enough room away from the public eye. The club could  potentially add extra facilities like bigger gym on top.
I’m not sure if it will be exclusively for Hearts or if Hearts will own it but we already have a positive relationship with HW so it would make sense to build on what’s already there.

I don't think that it would be possible to rotate pitch 2 without losing pitch 3.  Work is underway to erect 6 indoor tennis courts adjacent to pitch 2 (where the trees have been cut down) so there is no space available between pitch 2 and the academy building.

 

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=Q9G2DFEWH5V00

 

The only space that might be available is the field adjacent to car park H, beside the maintenance shed. However that would make it the furthest pitch from the academy buildings/dressing rooms which might be viewed as impractical.

[washniklaw]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I don't think that it would be possible to rotate pitch 2 without losing pitch 3.  Work is underway to erect 6 indoor tennis courts adjacent to pitch 2 (where the trees have been cut down) so there is no space available between pitch 2 and the academy building.

 

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=Q9G2DFEWH5V00

 

The only space that might be available is the field adjacent to car park H, beside the maintenance shed. However that would make it the furthest pitch from the academy buildings/dressing rooms which might be viewed as impractical.

Maybe I’m getting the pitches confused but it was suggested that show pitch 2 (the Astro) rotate at 90 degrees into the goalkeeper area and another show pitch be added alongside it. It would take the pitches through the wooded area that currently sits next to the Astro. Bit of ground work to be completed but not insurmountable. Goalkeepers would need to find a new area.

[Jingle Bells]

Bryden(JB Contracts LTD) must be down to his last million pounds.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, washniklaw said:

Maybe I’m getting the pitches confused but it was suggested that show pitch 2 (the Astro) rotate at 90 degrees into the goalkeeper area and another show pitch be added alongside it. It would take the pitches through the wooded area that currently sits next to the Astro. Bit of ground work to be completed but not insurmountable. Goalkeepers would need to find a new area.

The artificial pitch is just called the Astro. Pitch 1 is the grass pitch next to the Astro with the stand, which Scotland appears to have 1st call upon. Pitch 2 is the first of the four grass pitches on the lower level, with Pitch 2 used primarily by the 1st team for training. Pitches 6 & 7 on the upper level double up as Rugby pitches or other sports (Gaelic & American football)

[Cambo_Jambo]

On 26/05/2022 at 12:33, John Findlay said:

I think you will find that national football team constantly use it now.

 

On 26/05/2022 at 12:38, kingantti1874 said:

Ok They never used to. Still wouldn’t preclude selling a share of the facility. I’m sure hearts would be happy to work around such demands.  
 

I do think it unlikely, but I also do think it would maybe present a great solution for all involved

You're both right. SFA/SportsScotland/SRU paid a fair whack of cash to develop it into a sporting center of excellence off the back of the work that HW were already doing. They are regarded as having the best sports science faculty in Scotland.

 

After they built it, it was good to go but Gordan Strachan, boss at the time, refused to take Scotland to train there because he preferred the chef at Cameron House/Marr Hall. I forget which. 

[washniklaw]

19 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The artificial pitch is just called the Astro. Pitch 1 is the grass pitch next to the Astro with the stand, which Scotland appears to have 1st call upon. Pitch 2 is the first of the four grass pitches on the lower level, with Pitch 2 used primarily by the 1st team for training. Pitches 6 & 7 on the upper level double up as Rugby pitches or other sports (Gaelic & American football)

 

Yes, the plan included rotating the Astro 90 degrees so they could fit in another pitch to sit alongside it. Hearts would then have 2 pitches at right angles to the SFA pitch. I would imagine that we would want grass so they might have to replace another of the pitches with a Astro so it can be used 12 months a year by the students. Probably the existing grass surface we use. 
 

If we hear anything it will probably be announced around the AGM in Nov/Dec.

[Phil D. Corners]

With evolution of the sport and the addition of ladies/B team it’s no surprise we have out grown the initial needs from HW. 
 

I hope we can maintain the relationship with HW and find a compromise that works for everyone. 

[upgotheheads]

4 hours ago, indianajones said:

The lot of them deserve Gullane on a daily basis. 

Aye.

[TheBigO]

4 hours ago, indianajones said:

The lot of them deserve Gullane on a daily basis. 

I walked up Murder Hill a few weeks back.  I was goosed!  Walked!!!! Can't believe I used to run up it!

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

Bryden(JB Contracts LTD) must be down to his last million pounds.

Gave it all to Hibs 

[Pasquale for King]

Makes more sense to develop what facilities are already there, even if it means spending a few million to do so. 

[Jingle Bells]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Makes more sense to develop what facilities are already there, even if it means spending a few million to do so. 

Agree, we will never be able to afford better than what we already have.

There is still quite a lot of spare land for pitches at HW down by the National Robotics Centre if needs be.

 

Also Heriot-Watt were very understanding with the Club during Administration, they deserve a bit of loyalty back, I feel.

[Pasquale for King]

31 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Agree, we will never be able to afford better than what we already have.

There is still quite a lot of spare land for pitches at HW down by the National Robotics Centre if needs be.

 

Also Heriot-Watt were very understanding with the Club during Administration, they deserve a bit of loyalty back, I feel.

Spot on 

[gorgierulesapply88]

Heriot Watt Uni football don't even get first shout on indoor pitch. I believe outdoor astro is at the end of its 10 year life.

 

Even tynecastle HS has gone from 2G(Sand) to a decent astro.

[Footballfirst]

9 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Heriot Watt Uni football don't even get first shout on indoor pitch. I believe outdoor astro is at the end of its 10 year life.

 

Even tynecastle HS has gone from 2G(Sand) to a decent astro.

The outdoor astro has only been in place for 7 years. It was first used in the autumn of 2015.

 

It still looks ok despite the amount of use that it gets.

[gorgierulesapply88]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

The outdoor astro has only been in place for 7 years. It was first used in the autumn of 2015.

 

It still looks ok despite the amount of use that it gets.

It doesn't play okay. I'd compare it to saughton which is just being upgraded.