1962 League Cup Final

[iwasthere1954]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

I believe the Cuban missile crisis came to a head the following day.

 

Must have been quite a nervy weekend.

I think lots of us teenagers were thinking the worst. Looking back it was a frightening time as Kennedy had warned the Russians to pull back.

[martoon]

15 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

I think lots of us teenagers were thinking the worst. Looking back it was a frightening time as Kennedy had warned the Russians to pull back.

 

Always though it must have been a surreal few days.

 

Vlad and chums were pretty close to Cuba before the u-turn, I believe.

[iwasthere1954]

6 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Always though it must have been a surreal few days.

 

Vlad and chums were pretty close to Cuba before the u-turn, I believe.

I can't remember how far they were from Cuba but I don't think it was a great distance. I do remember the aerial photos of the missiles on the deck of the ship. I just hope the present situation doesn't escalate into something a lot more serious. Anyway that's the first time I've seen that footage.

[MTS1874]

This was the first final my old man took me to. I was 12 years old. It’s the first time I’ve seen this footage so thanks to the OP for posting.

[Seats]

Great footage, but two questions immediately spring to mind: 1. why are the ball boys all dressed like Inspector Gadget? 2. How big a run up did that goalie take for the bye kick!?!?! 🤣

[iwasthere1954]

11 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

Brilliant find.  I am always trawling you tube to find old Hearts games but never saw this.  Great.  

I've tried on loads of sites looking for the 1954 League Cup Final with no success. Maybe it's hidden in there somewhere like this one.

[jack49]

6 hours ago, MTS1874 said:

This was the first final my old man took me to. I was 12 years old. It’s the first time I’ve seen this footage so thanks to the OP for posting.

I was there  too with my Dad. My recollection was that there wasn’t a very big attendance. Like you I don’t recall ever having seen this footage. Cheers OP.

[willie wallace]

My first final at 8yrs. old.

I can hardly remember what I done last week but I still remember the goal  pretty well.😊

[spud]

I was there as well. It was my 9^th birthday the previous Saturday and my dad took me as my present. We were against the wall behind the goal in which Davidson scored. To be honest, I don’t remember much after half-time. The four-fingered Kit-Kat that my mum bought me had melted in my pocket. I had to leave it on the wall at half-time to let it solidify, then spent second half, Kilmarnock attacks trying to peel the foil off the chocolate.

The following Saturday was the climax of the Cuban Missile Crisis and I was convinced that I would die in the following few days.

[4marsbars]

On 02/05/2022 at 20:17, hoof.hearted said:

I know it's a generation thing but football was crap back then. My dad waxed lyrical about the terrible trio and I'm sure they were amazing compared to the opposition but don't let anyone kid you on, they couldn't hack it today. Stamina & guts 100% yes but that's about it. Watch the so called best final ever between Real Madrid & Eintracht Frankfurt...I would do a better job in goals. 

 

I'll tell you what WAS crap about that coverage. The camera angles. That kind of detracts from the enjoyment.

 

But wasn't the commentary exceptional? The guy makes every effort to name the player on the ball. Without that,we wouldn't have noticed Willie Hamilton's contribution. Today's commentators are lazy, earning money for nothing.

[PortyBeach]

On 02/05/2022 at 20:17, hoof.hearted said:

I know it's a generation thing but football was crap back then. My dad waxed lyrical about the terrible trio and I'm sure they were amazing compared to the opposition but don't let anyone kid you on, they couldn't hack it today. Stamina & guts 100% yes but that's about it. Watch the so called best final ever between Real Madrid & Eintracht Frankfurt...I would do a better job in goals. 

A lot of truth in what you say.

I couldn’t make out who took on the Killie defenders to supply Davidson with the chance to score, but it seemed to me to be one of the few joined-up moves on view from Hearts.

It looked like we almost lost a goal straight from kick-off and the ability to pass to feet was almost non-existent.

Still, a win is a win! 

[Kiwidoug]

Jock Stein was a great admirer of Willie Hamilton.  Took him to Hibs and it was reported that he stayed at Stein's house to keep him on the straight and narrow.

 

Truly great player.

[TexasAndy]

10 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

A lot of truth in what you say.

I couldn’t make out who took on the Killie defenders to supply Davidson with the chance to score, but it seemed to me to be one of the few joined-up moves on view from Hearts.

It looked like we almost lost a goal straight from kick-off and the ability to pass to feet was almost non-existent.

Still, a win is a win! 

There's a big difference between truth and opinion.  I would also rather listen to anyone who actually saw football back in the late 50s and early 60s.  Stupid post.

[luckydug]

35 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

There's a big difference between truth and opinion.  I would also rather listen to anyone who actually saw football back in the late 50s and early 60s.  Stupid post.

The big difference back ten was we actually got much nearer to ninety minutes football than we do now. 

To many stoppages now and players falling over with the slightest touch. 

Today's players wouldn't last five minutes with the tackles and laws of the game years ago also the surfaces and even the weight of the ball. Football boots were far heavier then too. 

Pitches at high level football are like carpets. 

51k people turned out for the 1962 LC final for a game which nowadays

would be cancelled due to safety concerns. Hampden was open on three sides as well. 

Players and fans were a lot more Hardy then. 

You can't really compare the quality between the eras for the reasons above but I know which I prefer and it's not today's sanitised version. 

[SectionDJambo]

13 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

 

I'll tell you what WAS crap about that coverage. The camera angles. That kind of detracts from the enjoyment.

 

But wasn't the commentary exceptional? The guy makes every effort to name the player on the ball. Without that,we wouldn't have noticed Willie Hamilton's contribution. Today's commentators are lazy, earning money for nothing.

The guy sitting in front of the camera, to the left, who had a hat on that appeared on the screen a few times. The cameraman probably told him to sit still.

The commentator has a familiar voice. George Davidson? Probably not David Francey, as he was the radio commentator.

[Wee Mikey]

My eye was drawn to the line of Invacars and I'm now wondering if there was ever an Invacar pitch invasion. They used to buzz about everywhere.

 

[PortyBeach]

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

There's a big difference between truth and opinion.  I would also rather listen to anyone who actually saw football back in the late 50s and early 60s.  Stupid post.

There is indeed a big difference. Did you watch football back then?

[Waterboy]

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

There's a big difference between truth and opinion.  I would also rather listen to anyone who actually saw football back in the late 50s and early 60s.  Stupid post.

 

Hardly a stupid post.  Appreciate it was a different game, and Hearts were possibly very good at what the game was back then, but it's a total stramash, 100 miles an hour, get the ball forward fast as you can type stuff.  It may have been more entertaining and enjoyable to watch, I give you that.  But he's right, hardly 3 passes strung together.

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

 

Hardly a stupid post.  Appreciate it was a different game, and Hearts were possibly very good at what the game was back then, but it's a total stramash, 100 miles an hour, get the ball forward fast as you can type stuff.  It may have been more entertaining and enjoyable to watch, I give you that.  But he's right, hardly 3 passes strung together.

Possibly very good? We won 7 trophies in 8 years. 

[Riccarton3]

34 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

 

Hardly a stupid post.  Appreciate it was a different game, and Hearts were possibly very good at what the game was back then, but it's a total stramash, 100 miles an hour, get the ball forward fast as you can type stuff.  It may have been more entertaining and enjoyable to watch, I give you that.  But he's right, hardly 3 passes strung together.

The players were good at passing the cup down the line at the end

[4marsbars]

 

Might have been George Davidson.

 

Maybe I overstated how good the commentary was, but he got the basics, name the player currently on the ball and say very little otherwise.

 

Watched some of Real v Man City last night. Exciting game, great camera work. But the 'commentators'..... Much of the time if the ball is being played out of defence, they make no reference to who is who. So you don't always notice individual contributions. 

[Waterboy]

13 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

The players were good at passing the cup down the line at the end

 

Talking about the quality of the game, not of the Hearts team relative to their competitors 👍

[Waterboy]

Just now, 4marsbars said:

 

Might have been George Davidson.

 

Maybe I overstated how good the commentary was, but he got the basics, name the player currently on the ball and say very little otherwise.

 

Watched some of Real v Man City last night. Exciting game, great camera work. But the 'commentators'..... Much of the time if the ball is being played out of defence, they make no reference to who is who. So you don't always notice individual contributions. 

 

I think in today's world with ultra high definition etc it's not always required.  I never really have to rely on a commentator to tell me who players are, but in fairness I rarely watch games where I don't know the teams.  Watching the footage from 1962, can hardly make out which team is which let alone the players, so calling each player out definitely beneficial.

[Jimbojack]

I was age 13 and went with my Dad. 2 heroes on the day Willie Hamilton fantastic skills and Tiny Wharton resilient. 

[Francis Albert]

27 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

 

Talking about the quality of the game, not of the Hearts team relative to their competitors 👍

You wrote that Hearts were only "possibly" very good at what the game was back then.. There surely can't be any doubt that they were.

 

I saw a lot of Hearts in the early sixties and I think the few few minutes of poorly filmed and edited highlights of the Killie final give a misleading impression of the game as it was back then.  

 

There were many games in which not a lot happened for long periods. I remember games in which the only highlight was a Willie Wallace goal for a 1-0 nil win.

 

And the Willie Hamilton I remember always seemed to have time on the ball and ability to retain possession. Someone  earlier described him as gliding with the ball which for me was a good description of his style, but not one that fits with  much of what we see  in these frantic clips.

 

Anyway the debate is a bit arid, like comparing the popular music of the 50's and 60's with the music of today or of the last few decades. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Francis Albert

[TexasAndy]

2 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

There is indeed a big difference. Did you watch football back then?

More to the point, did you?

[TexasAndy]

1 hour ago, Waterboy said:

 

Hardly a stupid post.  Appreciate it was a different game, and Hearts were possibly very good at what the game was back then, but it's a total stramash, 100 miles an hour, get the ball forward fast as you can type stuff.  It may have been more entertaining and enjoyable to watch, I give you that.  But he's right, hardly 3 passes strung together.

Jeez, based on 10 minutes of highlights of one game.  🙄

[PortyBeach]

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

Jeez, based on 10 minutes of highlights of one game.  🙄

A clip lasting ten minutes suggests it’s an accurate reflection of the flow of the whole game.

But even if that’s not the case, we all viewed the same highlights and all saw the same evidence.

Read “Waterboy’s” comments again and tell me you didn’t see what he and I described in the match highlights.

 

 

 

[Riccarton3]

49 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

A clip lasting ten minutes suggests it’s an accurate reflection of the flow of the whole game.

But even if that’s not the case, we all viewed the same highlights and all saw the same evidence.

Read “Waterboy’s” comments again and tell me you didn’t see what he and I described in the match highlights.

 

 

 

What did you think of the winning goal? Hamilton's work there is worthy of any forward. Lays it on a plate for Davidson. Quality. All it takes sometimes in a  final.

 

Simms and Kingsley, two bits of quality against Hibs in 2022 and Hamilton 60 years earlier. Look at the footwork.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Riccarton3

[PortyBeach]

27 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

What did you think of the winning goal? Hamilton's work there is worthy of any forward. Lays it on a plate for Davidson. Quality. All it takes sometimes in a  final.

 

Simms and Kingsley, two bits of quality against Hibs in 2022 and Hamilton 60 years earlier. Look at the footwork.

It was a well-worked goal, no doubt. As I mentioned, one of the few joined-up moves on show from the clip.

The highlights suggested it would take something special to unlock Killie and thankfully we had a player of Hamilton’s calibre who was capable of providing it.

It’s a sore one to think Stein probably got the best out of Willie Hamilton. 
Let’s hope a similar piece of magic can see us through in the Cup Final. 

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

It was a well-worked goal, no doubt. As I mentioned, one of the few joined-up moves on show from the clip.

The highlights suggested it would take something special to unlock Killie and thankfully we had a player of Hamilton’s calibre who was capable of providing it.

It’s a sore one to think Stein probably got the best out of Willie Hamilton. 
Let’s hope a similar piece of magic can see us through in the Cup Final. 

At least he won something with Hearts but agree. Wasn't aware of his career route. Looked some player.

[4marsbars]

4 hours ago, Waterboy said:

 

I think in today's world with ultra high definition etc it's not always required.  I never really have to rely on a commentator to tell me who players are, but in fairness I rarely watch games where I don't know the teams.  Watching the footage from 1962, can hardly make out which team is which let alone the players, so calling each player out definitely beneficial.

 

Maybe it's time I got a bigger TV (!) or, less likely, younger eyes.

 

Certainly, most games of football I watch on TV, and I tend only to watch the big games, involve teams where I don't immediately recognise the front view of players (no numbers), hence my irritation with commentators who only tell you who the players are when they are attacking (and you can generally read their number, whereas a defender will be facing the camera with no number showing).

 

Then, of course, there is my irritation with Celtic who, almost on a point of principle, come up with strip and number designs specifically designed to be illegible (something they don't get away with in European games).

 

There's a lot to be said for teams like Hearts (also Hibs and Rangers to be fair) who have white numbers on dark strips, easily read. Obviously, I know the Hearts players...

 

It's frightening to think how grumpy I will get when I am properly old......

 

[hoof.hearted]

On 02/05/2022 at 22:28, Morgan said:

 

Oh, do be quiet.

 

 

Well said, John.

 

Best, Law and Charlton.  

 

Great example there, Doug.  

 

 

Because you don't agree I've to 'be quiet'? Even though it was typed and nothing was said. Aye very good...anything you say (or type)

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, hoof.hearted said:

Because you don't agree I've to 'be quiet'? Even though it was typed and nothing was said. Aye very good...anything you say (or type)

 

 

[PortyBeach]

On 05/05/2022 at 13:20, sassenach said:

Re comments about the modern game compared to years ago....

 

The big difference to me is just how tough the more creative players had to be.  There's loads of footage of some of the challenges George Best had to endure, and some of them were absolutely brutal.  Bestie just got up, won the ball back and beat his opponent all over again - that's if he'd even gone down in the first place.  He'd have a field day today, because under the modern interpretation of the rules he would be impossible to tackle.

 

Best's peak years were too short for him to be considered the greatest player ever.  But I don't believe that there's ever been a better player than he was at his peak.

You make a good point about the physical resilience of creative players back then. In Scotland, Jimmy Johnstone was another player who combined skill with physical courage.

The footage of Best I most remember which illustrates your point is a game v Chelsea. Best is bearing down on goal and is crudely challenged by “Chopper” Harris.
He could have gone down but he somehow rides the tackle, takes the ball forward. Showing that legendary sense of balance he still has the presence of mind to feign a shot, send the goalie scrambling, and hit the ball into the net despite the efforts of a defender on the goal line. Sublime.

[dannymack]

On 03/05/2022 at 12:28, The Bannon Flick said:

Pretty poor and naïve post in my opinion.

 

Old cine film reels can look deceptive. Plus factor in the state of pitches / boots / strips / balls that were used as the norm back then before making I’ll judged comments that make you look foolish.

 

 

Check the boots and shin guards... must have been a delight when football kits and accessories were redesigned.

[robroy1874]

Remember the day well. I was 10 and my father had to work at the last moment so my mother reluctantly took me. Willie Hamilton, Norrie Davidson and Willie Wallace were my big heroes at that time.

 

Remarkable that we haven't won it since.

 

Got absolutely soaked that day!!

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, PortyBeach said:

You make a good point about the physical resilience of creative players back then. In Scotland, Jimmy Johnstone was another player who combined skill with physical courage.

The footage of Best I most remember which illustrates your point is a game v Chelsea. Best is bearing down on goal and is crudely challenged by “Chopper” Harris.
He could have gone down but he somehow rides the tackle, takes the ball forward. Showing that legendary sense of balance he still has the presence of mind to feign a shot, send the goalie scrambling, and hit the ball into the net despite the efforts of a defender on the goal line. Sublime.

Our own Roald Jensen is another example. I remember a photo of his legs after a game bruised from thigh to ankle despite shinguards. But he continued taking that punishment without flinching.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Francis Albert

[PortyBeach]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Our own Roald Jensen is another example. I remember a photo of his legs after a game bruised from thigh to ankle despite shinguards. But he continued taking that punishment without flinching.

Makes you wonder how many creative players may not have pursued their football careers and were lost to the game because they were brutalised early on by “players” whose “prowess” lay in being taller and possessing a more robust physique.

[PortyBeach]

13 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Our own Roald Jensen is another example. I remember a photo of his legs after a game bruised from thigh to ankle despite shinguards. But he continued taking that punishment without flinching.

Great player.