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Aston Villa in talks to sign 15 year-old Hearts starlet Ewan Simpson


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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, westbow said:

£600k a year for a 16 year old? Oofyah that’ll not end well.

 

It's all relative. 

 

Be like us spending £20k or the like on a youth contract over a year. 

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Perth to Paisley
8 hours ago, Section Q said:

Agree Scottish football isn't marketed to it's potential. Some smart people managed to transform the game down south, and unfortunately we weren't part of it.

Sky is the reason why there is a huge disparity...and per head we fund them more than any other country!

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jamboinglasgow
34 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

My personal opinion is that Villa simpy should not be allowed to sign a 15yr old player from another academy in another country.

 

 

 

They wont be signing him at 15, they are effectively offering him a contract that he signs when he turns 16. But I do agree that there should be some protection, even putting the current rules about signing players outside the UK (where clubs cant sign someone from outside UK under the age if 18) should apply to cross border in UK.

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Really hate that big clubs from down south can just rock up and take who they want. I thought there were rules to stop children being traded and sold like ****ing goats… 

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Nookie Bear
1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

They wont be signing him at 15, they are effectively offering him a contract that he signs when he turns 16. But I do agree that there should be some protection, even putting the current rules about signing players outside the UK (where clubs cant sign someone from outside UK under the age if 18) should apply to cross border in UK.

 

Ta,

 

I'm so petty that if he signed i would just tell him not to bother turning up to train with us anymore. and we'll be having that kit back as well.

 

(Which is why i am not a coach, or have anything to do with youth sport 🤷‍♀️:lol:)

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wavydavy
1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

My personal opinion is that Villa simpy should not be allowed to sign a 15yr old player from another academy in another country.

 

 

 

I always thought they were not allowed to sign a professional contract until they were at least 16. No doubt the money men will find loopholes to get what they want, they always do.

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I thought youth players had to live in a geographical area for epl teams. Maybe he's old enough for that not to count 

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33 minutes ago, OTT said:

Really hate that big clubs from down south can just rock up and take who they want. I thought there were rules to stop children being traded and sold like ****ing goats… 

They cant, the final decision it with the player (and parents, I suspect)

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2 hours ago, westbow said:

£600k a year for a 16 year old? Oofyah that’ll not end well.

 

The amounts being paid in the EPL for youngsters reminds of a point made in Davie Farrell's book about why youngsters chose to go to EPL teams rather than try and play in the first team of a Scottish team. 

 

Using Doaks as an example, let's say he has the ability of a lower Scottish League player, however, he'll earn £600k a year for 4 years at Liverpool, then he'll move to a lower EPL / Championship Team picking up a decent wage, eventually he'll end up at his level in the Scottish Championship when he's in his mid to late 20s but he'll have earnt a few million.  Whereas if he started in the Scottish Premiership, he'll end up in the Scottish Championship sooner earning a decent wage but not life changing.

 

As others have said, it's all about the money for a lot of players.

Edited by TurboT
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My big issue with the academy is as the quality of the first team improves then so must the quality of youth team players but how do you do that without these situations arising constantly.

 

Our first choice centre midfielders are only 23, let’s say we get 2 years out them is there anyone in that academy that’s remotely close to being of the standard to replace Beni and/or Devlin? Even look at their back ups Harring and Halliday do we have anyone even close to them?

 

Simms is another example, for Hearts to compete domestically and in Europe he’s the minimum standard we require, he’s an Everton Academy product so realistically we need to be producing that quality in ours for it to be a success.

 

There has to be some form of cost benefit analysis and right now I just don’t see it, as it’s so easy to take players from other academy’s then how we can use ours to progress our own first team.

 

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41 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Ta,

 

I'm so petty that if he signed i would just tell him not to bother turning up to train with us anymore. and we'll be having that kit back as well.

 

(Which is why i am not a coach, or have anything to do with youth sport 🤷‍♀️:lol:)

You're a fan looking at it emotionally. it will be his job same at stacking shelves 

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Smithee

It really lays bare the problem, we're the same country when it comes to UK sky taking our subscription money, or not allowing our clubs to broadcast 3pm Saturday games to their own fans, but we see none of the benefit.

 

I'm starting to think a decent UK government would force consolidation payments to the other home nations

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Section Q
On 27/04/2022 at 19:43, Perth to Paisley said:

Sky is the reason why there is a huge disparity...and per head we fund them more than any other country!

EPL was marketed to make to attractive to SKY and other broadcasters. 

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periodictabledancer
29 minutes ago, Hesh said:

I thought youth players had to live in a geographical area for epl teams. Maybe he's old enough for that not to count 

They do. But the big clubs will pay for the family to relocate and put the kid through college.  FT education is now compulsory to age 18 now ? 

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Has the transfer of an 15 year old to a bigger club ever been a success in Scotland.

Think David Gray left Hearts to Man U for a small fee. 

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22 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

They do. But the big clubs will pay for the family to relocate and put the kid through college.  FT education is now compulsory to age 18 now ? 

So basically the family needs to give up everything on the off chance the laddie is successful 

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upgotheheads
16 minutes ago, westbow said:

£600k a year for a 16 year old? Oofyah that’ll not end well.

 

It's difficult to criticise players for taking the option. I remember that Michael Stewart was on 12K a week with Manu before he eventually came to us after various loans, he is now financially secure for the rest of his life if he's careful, surely the most overrated player I have ever seen and Craig Levein reckoned e was poor value for the £1 per week we were paying. David Gray left us for Manu at a similar age and ended up with Hibs after playing in the lower leagues in England so it's a gamble for them. I would have loved to be in their position though. 

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Nookie Bear
4 minutes ago, Hesh said:

So basically the family needs to give up everything on the off chance the laddie is successful 

 

That applies to the family of any elite junipr athlete in any sport.

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Martin_T
11 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:


We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.
 

The issue is and will always be the lure of the £ - I’m sure the lad’s parents will be involved and the potential for money will unfortunately be to our detriment. 
 

It is short sighted in my opinion but until our game is sold and marketed better by the powers that be (which would take radical change in our game), this will continue to happen.

 

I would say we are comparable in the relative stature within our domestic leagues, in virtually every other measure, they are in a different stratosphere to us.

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Malinga the Swinga

In

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

It really lays bare the problem, we're the same country when it comes to UK sky taking our subscription money, or not allowing our clubs to broadcast 3pm Saturday games to their own fans, but we see none of the benefit.

 

I'm starting to think a decent UK government would force consolidation payments to the other home nations

Give your political bulleshit a day off for once or at least stick to the Shed if you want to harp on about government. It's so boring, predictable and just really sad.

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31 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That applies to the family of any elite junipr athlete in any sport.

Not really 

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Smithee
20 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

In

Give your political bulleshit a day off for once or at least stick to the Shed if you want to harp on about government. It's so boring, predictable and just really sad.

It's a fair point, stop crying

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jager man
23 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

In

Give your political bulleshit a day off for once or at least stick to the Shed if you want to harp on about government. It's so boring, predictable and just really sad.

Well said.

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Smithee
1 minute ago, jager man said:

Well said.

 

If a decent government gets in to Westminster and does something about it, great 🤷‍♂️

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jambo-rocker

I'd imagine due to Brexit and the loan cutbacks by uefa not applying to home grown players has led to our players getting sniffed at more frequently. It's going to keep happening unless we find measures in Scotland to protect our players/clubs from being picked up so easily by English teams on a pittance.

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Smithee
Just now, jambo-rocker said:

I'd imagine due to Brexit and the loan cutbacks by uefa not applying to home grown players has led to our players getting sniffed at more frequently. It's going to keep happening unless we find measures in Scotland to protect our players/clubs from being picked up so easily by English teams on a pittance.

Careful chap, manbabies will be throwing their rattles at you, bringing up politics like that.

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Smithee
7 minutes ago, jambo-rocker said:

I'd imagine due to Brexit and the loan cutbacks by uefa not applying to home grown players has led to our players getting sniffed at more frequently. It's going to keep happening unless we find measures in Scotland to protect our players/clubs from being picked up so easily by English teams on a pittance.

It's bound to be a good thing for the national team in the short to medium term though, imagine being confident

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1 hour ago, Smithee said:

It really lays bare the problem, we're the same country when it comes to UK sky taking our subscription money, or not allowing our clubs to broadcast 3pm Saturday games to their own fans, but we see none of the benefit.

 

I'm starting to think a decent UK government would force consolidation payments to the other home nations


Sorry what? Sky stop us broadcasting, since when? And who is it the UK government would force sky to pay?

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Smithee
3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:


Sorry what? Sky stop us broadcasting, since when? And who is it the UK government would force sky to pay?

Sky's license allowed them to broadcast to Scotland and Wales, and whether we like it or not the EPL's success from it has had a relative negative effect on us.

I think that if they broadcast their competing product into Scotland they should maybe be forced to pay something to our own product in compensation.

 

As I said, I'm starting to think - this isn't a firmly held view, more of an embryonic thought.

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Nookie Bear
19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Sky's license allowed them to broadcast to Scotland and Wales, and whether we like it or not the EPL's success from it has had a relative negative effect on us.

I think that if they broadcast their competing product into Scotland they should maybe be forced to pay something to our own product in compensation.

 

As I said, I'm starting to think - this isn't a firmly held view, more of an embryonic thought.

 

Yes! Been saying this for years!

 

No idea how we do that but some sort of bullyish, brinkmanship approach from our authorities and government would be a start.

 

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alanbauld

A mandatory 50% sell on fee should be attached to any youngster being poached by other clubs unless they make an agreement on a fee. How else would clubs be encouraged to take on youngsters and bring them through the ranks. Lot of nonsense being talked like 'he should go' 'will get better coaching' etc. Naismith for one is probably as good as it gets for coaching at this level. Why should a young player move off without a thought for the club that gave him a chance and has spent a lot of money, time and effort bringing him to where he now is. He is only seen to be good because Hearts got him to this level. Wish some of the losers who persist on posting in the belief they are supporting Hearts with their negative, wimp comments would go and do one, somewhere else.

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Jambos1983
1 minute ago, alanbauld said:

A mandatory 50% sell on fee should be attached to any youngster being poached by other clubs unless they make an agreement on a fee. How else would clubs be encouraged to take on youngsters and bring them through the ranks. Lot of nonsense being talked like 'he should go' 'will get better coaching' etc. Naismith for one is probably as good as it gets for coaching at this level. Why should a young player move off without a thought for the club that gave him a chance and has spent a lot of money, time and effort bringing him to where he now is. He is only seen to be good because Hearts got him to this level. Wish some of the losers who persist on posting in the belief they are supporting Hearts with their negative, wimp comments would go and do one, somewhere else.

It certainly needs something like a guaranteed sell on clause otherwise what is the point of the academy?

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Smithee
13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Yes! Been saying this for years!

 

No idea how we do that but some sort of bullyish, brinkmanship approach from our authorities and government would be a start.

 

The more I think about it, there really should be something in place

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Jim Panzee

I would imagine / hope that with the likes of Budge and Anderson on board one of the key objectives of the academy will be that its profitable - either by hard cash / profit on sales - or we have an academy product who plays in the first team for 3 years and assists the club in winning trophies / high league placings (so an indirect benefit / profit).

 

if not, I can't see budge et al continuing the academy through sentiment.

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maroonlegions

So whats the going rate for a 15 year old academy football player.. 

 

2 Stake Bakes and and a fizzy drink??

 

I would implore him to stay  at Hearts.  If he is that good then he will get his chance. What age was Hickey when he got his game for us, 16 teen??

 

Italian clubs have it right, they nurture them then put them in the first team for experience. 

Edited by maroonlegions
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42 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

I would imagine / hope that with the likes of Budge and Anderson on board one of the key objectives of the academy will be that its profitable - either by hard cash / profit on sales - or we have an academy product who plays in the first team for 3 years and assists the club in winning trophies / high league placings (so an indirect benefit / profit).

 

if not, I can't see budge et al continuing the academy through sentiment.

But it's part of being a Community Club.  I can't see either Budge or Anderson being in favour of closing it, otherwise FOH might have something to say.

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Nookie Bear
14 minutes ago, RobNox said:

But it's part of being a Community Club.  I can't see either Budge or Anderson being in favour of closing it, otherwise FOH might have something to say.

 

Not sure the academy has anything to do with being a community club, more like it is just what clubs have always done.

 

There are other opportunities for kids to play that comes under the 'community' banner tbf

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Footballfirst
6 hours ago, Haken said:

Have any of our current crop of youngsters been signed from another team's academy?

Yes. Ewan Simpson himself.  He was with Celtic.

 

2005 Callum Sandilands Rangers

2005 Adam Forrester Rangers

2006 Rocco Friel Rangers

2007 Coupar Wilkie Hibs

2009 Sam McCartney Rangers

2009 Sam Dickov Livingston

2010 Jude Hynd Dundee Utd

 

I may have missed a couple.

 

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RustyRightPeg

Does anyone on here believe in the method Brentford use? 
 

I’m not for nor against it, just curious to see what the consensus is. 

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Under the floodlight
18 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Does anyone on here believe in the method Brentford use? 
 

I’m not for nor against it, just curious to see what the consensus is. 

I believe the children are the future, oh and also garlic bread.

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Phil D. Corners

Shame he’s going, but top talent will be drawn to the top clubs. 💰 Good luck to him.
 

I’m interested to know what the fee is, maybe this helps the club long term. 

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Lfhearts
1 hour ago, Phil D. Corners said:

Shame he’s going, but top talent will be drawn to the top clubs. 💰 Good luck to him.
 

I’m interested to know what the fee is, maybe this helps the club long term. 

Fee unlikely to be released.

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6 hours ago, Hesh said:

They cant, the final decision it with the player (and parents, I suspect)

 

Just a real shame to see, with the huns not managing to keep Gilmour, no one is immune to it, but Hickey hopefully is an example to the benefits of working hard in Scottish football. 

 

We've managed to keep Flatman & Stone, so here's hoping. 

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jambo19
2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes. Ewan Simpson himself.  He was with Celtic.

 

2005 Callum Sandilands Rangers

2005 Adam Forrester Rangers

2006 Rocco Friel Rangers

2007 Coupar Wilkie Hibs

2009 Sam McCartney Rangers

2009 Sam Dickov Livingston

2010 Jude Hynd Dundee Utd

 

I may have missed a couple.

 

Do you know how many Scots are in the English 20s league?

Must be a fair few, City have Fiorini, Adam and the goalie Slater? Add in Bowie at Fulham, Ashby at West Ham

 

The likes of Galbraith, Gray and Stewart all did it and came back to play top flight in football. The toss up is whether you try and fail then come home or stay and develop like Hickey, Mcginn and Robertson. 

 

It's very hard with the money on offer for players and parents to say no sadly. Until Doncaster etc start marketing and pulling in money coupled with the SFA encouraging first teams to play u21s we will see more of this as scottish youths up to u19 seem to do very well

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John Findlay
4 hours ago, Smithee said:

It's bound to be a good thing for the national team in the short to medium term though, imagine being confident

When Scotland qualified for the World Cup from 1974-1990, go and research how many players were playing for Scottish clubs, and non-Scottish clubs.

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RustyRightPeg
2 hours ago, Under the floodlight said:

I believe the children are the future, oh and also garlic bread.


You’re the only one that’s replied to it so I’m presuming you know the crux of what they do? 
 

They don’t have an academy as such, they just sign 18 year olds upwards that have been released from the so called bigger clubs and put them in their first team and reserves. Sink or swim so to speak but it’s worked out rather well for them. 

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4 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

I would imagine / hope that with the likes of Budge and Anderson on board one of the key objectives of the academy will be that its profitable - either by hard cash / profit on sales - or we have an academy product who plays in the first team for 3 years and assists the club in winning trophies / high league placings (so an indirect benefit / profit).

 

if not, I can't see budge et al continuing the academy through sentiment.

The Academy like the Womens team is here to stay 

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3 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:


You’re the only one that’s replied to it so I’m presuming you know the crux of what they do? 
 

They don’t have an academy as such, they just sign 18 year olds upwards that have been released from the so called bigger clubs and put them in their first team and reserves. Sink or swim so to speak but it’s worked out rather well for them. 

Yes, they were only out the top league for 74 years 

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RustyRightPeg
7 minutes ago, Hesh said:

Yes, they were only out the top league for 74 years 


They started doing it in 2016 😀 

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Smithee
25 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

When Scotland qualified for the World Cup from 1974-1990, go and research how many players were playing for Scottish clubs, and non-Scottish clubs.

And then look how we've done since the 90s when the EPL started

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