Aston Villa in talks to sign 15 year-old Hearts starlet Ewan Simpson

[Blackford Hearts]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10756055/Aston-Villa-talks-sign-15-year-old-Hearts-starlet-Ewan-Simpson.html
 

If Simpson leaves it’s a shame to lose another young player to EPL after Leonard went to Brighton, but shows the academy is successfully developing young players. 
 

Is there an incentive to stay at Hearts for our best kids versus developing in England and if so how can we get them to stay? 

[jambostuart]

2 minutes ago, Blackford Hearts said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10756055/Aston-Villa-talks-sign-15-year-old-Hearts-starlet-Ewan-Simpson.html
 

If Simpson leaves it’s a shame to lose another young player to EPL after Leonard went to Brighton, but shows the academy is successfully developing young players. 
 

Is there an incentive to stay at Hearts for our best kids versus developing in England and if so how can we get them to stay? 

 

For me staying at Hearts should be a no brainer. If he's good enough he will get first team chances here before he will down there and the path to the EPL or better leagues overseas through playing well here has been shown. McGinn and Hickey are two recent examples of that whereas fighting it out in the youth teams of a bigger club or getting punted on loan can often be a dead end. 

 

That said, he will have a better quality of coaching at these clubs which may help his technique, and ability. Personally think young players are better off staying put though. 

[Byyy The Light]

5 minutes ago, Blackford Hearts said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10756055/Aston-Villa-talks-sign-15-year-old-Hearts-starlet-Ewan-Simpson.html
 

If Simpson leaves it’s a shame to lose another young player to EPL after Leonard went to Brighton, but shows the academy is successfully developing young players. 
 

Is there an incentive to stay at Hearts for our best kids versus developing in England and if so how can we get them to stay? 

Good luck to the lad.

 

Only reinforces my belief that the academy is a waste of time.

 

If they’re exceptional we’ll never see them. If they’re excellent we get 1 season and they go for free or buttons.

 

If they’re good they get 5 or 6 games before they’re slaughtered and written off by groups of fans. Pumped out on loan and never heard from again.

 

 

[Kiwidoug]

If he was my son or more likely grandson I'd be imploring him to stay with Hearts and not just because I'm a Hearts supporter.

 

He's only 15.  Earn a contract by continuing to develop and impress.  The world will be his oyster in a few short years if he's good enough.  If he's not, he won't be succeeding anywhere.

[Section Q]

Kinda questions the purpose of the academy to our benefit. If the lad is only 15 then it's questionable that he's cost us all that much tbf. A few years ago we were seen as just as big a club as Villa. Joe Jordan actually knocked them back to come to us in the 80s. As a club, we're in good shape financially. Would be a shame if we were seen as a  feeder club for the big clubs.

[Robbies right hand man]

12 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Kinda questions the purpose of the academy to our benefit. If the lad is only 15 then it's questionable that he's cost us all that much tbf. A few years ago we were seen as just as big a club as Villa. Joe Jordan actually knocked them back to come to us in the 80s. As a club, we're in good shape financially. Would be a shame if we were seen as a  feeder club for the big clubs.

We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.
 

The issue is and will always be the lure of the £ - I’m sure the lad’s parents will be involved and the potential for money will unfortunately be to our detriment. 
 

It is short sighted in my opinion but until our game is sold and marketed better by the powers that be (which would take radical change in our game), this will continue to happen.

[Section Q]

On 27/04/2022 at 10:46, Robbies right hand man said:

We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.
 

The issue is and will always be the lure of the £ - I’m sure the lad’s parents will be involved and the potential for money will unfortunately be to our detriment. 
 

It is short sighted in my opinion but until our game is sold and marketed better by the powers that be (which would take radical change in our game), this will continue to happen.

Agree Scottish football isn't marketed to it's potential. Some smart people managed to transform the game down south, and unfortunately we weren't part of it.

[Mr Benn]

English clubs can no longer attract youngsters from EU countries after Brexit so we can expect to see them looking more closely at players available in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. 

[Herbert.]

He should go. He'll learn more down there from better coaches and playing against better players than he will up here getting kicked about. 

[Tommy Brown]

54 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

He should go. He'll learn more down there from better coaches and playing against better players than he will up here getting kicked about. 

Yeah like Austin McPhee

[DG_HMFC]

Complete waste of time having the academy if the potential star youths are leaving before making it to first team level. 

 

Rules need to be introduced to protect the club producing youngsters.

[Bull's-eye]

It's just the pecking order, we'll pick up kids from other academys.

 

If you don't have academys you won't see any decent kids coming through at all.

 

Playing 18 year old kids in the 1st team might be great and cosy and look good, it seldom works out long term.

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:

We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.

 

That's pretty optimistic! Their stadium's 40k plus, Birmingham's a city of a few million, they've won multiple European trophies and they've been bringing in EPL levels of sponsorship, prize money and exposure for decades, with one relegation from a much bigger League in 30 years. In one fell swoop they brought in more transfer money than we've ever earned.

Our league champions, a much bigger club than us, couldn't hold on to their manager when Villa came calling.

 

I don't think there's any metric where we're comparable to Villa I'm afraid.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Smithee

[jamboozy]

16 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

Complete waste of time having the academy if the potential star youths are leaving before making it to first team level. 

 

Rules need to be introduced to protect the club producing youngsters.

This is how I feel, otherwise what’s the point of the academy? ‘ Oh come to Hearts son we will spend time and effort on you then Club billybigbaws will come in and that’s the last we’ll see of you’

[Skacelsid]

Many 15 year olds have potential, they are ten-a-penny in reality and most likely end up in the lower leagues, if any. Obviously this boy has natural ability to be in demand but so will the boys around him and every chance they may turn out to be a better finished article. We cannot control the market, but must make sure we benefit if in the unlikely event a "star" is born.

[KyleLafferty]

If we get 500-600k like Celtic did for Doak then I suppose that is the academies purpose. Even Celtic can’t cling on to their future stars anymore. Stick a sell on clause on him. I’d love to see youngsters play for hearts first but the really top ones will now be away early doors. Top teams in England are now looking up here cause of Brexit. On a slight plus if it keeps happening the Scottish National team should be improving, if all these young ones get much better coaching and facilities to develop.

[Sooks]

Sadly just the way it goes he has to weigh up whether it is a better move or not at that age there are merits to staying and going

 

[CMc]

Good luck to the boy either way. 
 

it’s a tough school to make the grade down there. 
 

Who knows, maybe he’ll want to come home after a few years of top class coaching and conditioning. EPL kids always look far more physically developed then our kids (although this is probably a selection bias around who gets starts in their teens). 
 

If he stays, great. 
 

If he goes, all the ten year olds see what signing for us and working hard to coach’s instructions can do. 

[Leveins Battalion]

It’s just the way of football,football is about 1 thing at every level now,money money money.

 

Even at grassroots tots level I know families who are being priced out allowing their kids to join clubs.

 

Its a big few years for our academy,if we don’t produce any player of note then we really have to consider it’s future.

[kingantti1874]

No convinced the academy is worth the investment when this sort of thing happens. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by kingantti1874

[A_A wehatethehibs]

If this happens it’s more evidence towards shutting down the academy and forgetting about it.

 

Whats the point, when any times there’s a good talent they just get nicked at 15 leaving us with the bang average Euan Henderson’s etc. it just becomes a millstone around whoever the manager to “play youth”, when the youth that are left here are actually average in terms of talent because the quality ones got nicked, whereas we can get better talent from the transfer market in the 18-23 age group (Beni, Devlin, Cochrane, Simms, all better football players than their Hearts youth team counterparts) 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

John Robertson should be enough to show that once in a blue moon a youth player comes through the ranks to become a legend. Salvessen Boys Club - Edina Hibs - Hearts Youth team to Hearts Legend. 

[DalryJambo]

5 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:

We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.
 

The issue is and will always be the lure of the £ - I’m sure the lad’s parents will be involved and the potential for money will unfortunately be to our detriment. 
 

It is short sighted in my opinion but until our game is sold and marketed better by the powers that be (which would take radical change in our game), this will continue to happen.

 

He'll move to an environment where he's probably not the best player in the group (not sure if that's the case now, but he must be on of the best in his age group at hearts) and will need to work really hard to shine. This will probably push him in a way he wouldn't get pushed at hearts (unless his development is fast tracked to the first team).

 

If I was his parent I'd be asking the question of where will he be push/challenged the most and which club will provide the most support to help him develop. It might not just be about money.

[Mysterion]

7 hours ago, jambostuart said:

 

For me staying at Hearts should be a no brainer. If he's good enough he will get first team chances here before he will down there and the path to the EPL or better leagues overseas through playing well here has been shown. McGinn and Hickey are two recent examples of that whereas fighting it out in the youth teams of a bigger club or getting punted on loan can often be a dead end. 

 

That said, he will have a better quality of coaching at these clubs which may help his technique, and ability. Personally think young players are better off staying put though. 

I fully agree with this… I mean it’s not like it hasn’t worked out for Chelsea starlet and Scotland International Billy Gilmour. 😆
 

Have to say - it’s rubbish for us but if he wants to go then good luck to him. At this age he’ll be getting some form of pro youth contract with additional extras (accommodation/money to cover a parents relocation etc). To gamble on getting a full time pro contract up contract, it’s worth it.

[The Treasurer]

25 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

No convinced the academy is worth the investment when this sort of thing happens. 

If everyone had that attitude then there would be no path for young players to come through the ranks at any club.

We can attract the best player from clubs further down the food chain, just as others further up can take our best youngsters.

If, as is being suggested, we get £500k each time it happens (with a possible sell on if we negotiate properly) then it seems a decent business model

[John Findlay]

Whatever decision the young lad makes, then very good luck to him.

I know a lad at Spartans U14s who next season will be at St Johnstone, another went to Hibs last season. I guarantee people will be on here moaning, as to why Hearts are not taking from Spartans. The answer is quite simple they do. Tells you what teams Hearts get their players from on the academy wall. Villa are taking one player from our U15s, if the deal happens. That means Hearts are still left with plenty more U15s, there is no guarantee for Villa that they have chosen the best and right player.

[Blackford Hearts]

Some interesting and diverse views with no correct answer as it’s the boy and his family’s decision. 
it does make Hearts Academy more attractive if there’s potential to move to a better league therefore we can attract and compete to sign any player from around Scotland. 
Downside of course is losing the best players in the same way we can attract them. 
There’s very few players make the 1st team from Hearts Academy and Savage and the board must be looking at its purpose and adapt as required.
as said if we get a substantial fee with add on’s it will pay for itself. 
Chelsea (and no doubt other clubs) look to get one academy player per season into the 1st team which makes it pay its way, we are not doing that. 

[jbee647]

19 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

If everyone had that attitude then there would be no path for young players to come through the ranks at any club.

We can attract the best player from clubs further down the food chain, just as others further up can take our best youngsters.

If, as is being suggested, we get £500k each time it happens (with a possible sell on if we negotiate properly) then it seems a decent business model

He’s 15, if we get as much as 50k we will be doing well.

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

He’s 15, if we get as much as 50k we will be doing well.

Did celtic not get 600k for doak? 

 

Unfortunately its part of the game, bit frustrating to lose talent so young. Big opportunity for the kid but at the same time I'd be looking at Hickey If I was his family. 

[jbee647]

2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Did celtic not get 600k for doak? 

 

Unfortunately its part of the game, bit frustrating to lose talent so young. Big opportunity for the kid but at the same time I'd be looking at Hickey If I was his family. 

Doak is older and has actually played in Celtics first team 

[Gorgieshed]

6 hours ago, Robbies right hand man said:

We are comparable to Villa in terms

of club size in my opinion.
 

The issue is and will always be the lure of the £ - I’m sure the lad’s parents will be involved and the potential for money will unfortunately be to our detriment. 
 

It is short sighted in my opinion but until our game is sold and marketed better by the powers that be (which would take radical change in our game), this will continue to happen.

Haha. We are nowhere near the size of Villa, not even close.

 

Regardless, the academy has been a failure for years now. Barely any talent making our first team, if they are any good they leave. Something isn't right and it needs to be addressed pronto. For all the things good about Hearts just now, our academy is the polar opposite!

[Bazzas right boot]

The academy really has to be reviewed imo. 

If it costs "a lot" to run, we really need to ask ourselves is it worth it? 

 

Any really good young player bails out at the first opportunity and the average run of the mill types add nothing to us. 

Even guys like Holt and patterson bailed early and for no fee. 

 

We can't get them on long contracts so from a football or financial point of view we don't benefit hugely. 

 

I'm more and more heading towards scouting the 19-22 ish market down south and putting more resource into that. 

 

If the cost of running the academy is not expensive then I see merit in keeping it as it is and we'll always need a community presence at youth level, we couldn't just stop running youth football, but since the bosman and the rise of the English clubs financial clout I am struggling more and more  to see how this benefits us in an significant way. 

 

 

[Herbert.]

Can we not ask for a high sell on % for our academy players over a development fee? Even a average championship player is worth a few million so we could end up with a better deal doing it that way.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Fire_At_The_Disco said:

John Robertson should be enough to show that once in a blue moon a youth player comes through the ranks to become a legend. Salvessen Boys Club - Edina Hibs - Hearts Youth team to Hearts Legend. 

 

Yip, fate and circumstances had a lot to do with that as well. 

Read his book, stars aligning doesn't cover it. 

 

 

Throw in the bosman and the English clubs power he wouldn't even have started with us. 

On top of rangers and Hibs being interested, Forrest and Leeds offered him terms. 

 

 

 

[goader]

This was discussed at a recent HMSA dinner.  The government is also in the process of trying to scrap any compensation for youngsters.  As an example the £600K Celtic received for Doak would no longer happen.  Makes it even harder for Scottish clubs to retain young players I'm afraid

 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, Herbert. said:

He should go. He'll learn more down there from better coaches and playing against better players than he will up here getting kicked about. 

 

 

Or in 3 years time get loan out to the third teir and booted up and down there. 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, Skacelsid said:

Many 15 year olds have potential, they are ten-a-penny in reality and most likely end up in the lower leagues, if any. Obviously this boy has natural ability to be in demand but so will the boys around him and every chance they may turn out to be a better finished article. We cannot control the market, but must make sure we benefit if in the unlikely event a "star" is born.

 

Have to agree, a exciting player at that age should always be taken with a pinch of salt, as its the next few years that determine if they will be a great player or not. I remember the football journalist Tim Vickery talk about when he first moved to Brazil, he would often watch the South American U17 championships and would rave about quite a few players there. But then when it came to the U20 championships a few later, those players he raved about at U17 rarely looked as good and it was usually other players that stood out and those were the players who would make it.

 

It will be gutting to lose another player to the Premier League academy meat grinder, Brexit screwed Scottish clubs over for this as the English academies can only recruit at 16 players from the UK, so we become very attractive and these clubs get players a lot cheaper here than from lower league English clubs (the UK govt was calling on a fairer amount of money from the premier league to go to lower leagues and grassroots in England, but there should be some money sent to Scotland from the Premier League as well as it has a negative effect on Scottish football.)

[Mikey1874]

This sort of thing strengthens the Academy. Parents and youngsters seeing this can encourage them to come to Hearts. 

 

But it doesn't happen that often. The vast majority of youngsters get released not signed. And not everyone goes. Callum Flatman turned down offers. Previously for example Chris Hamilton turned down Man Utd. 

[Haken]

Have any of our current crop of youngsters been signed from another team's academy?

[The Treasurer]

41 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

Haha. We are nowhere near the size of Villa, not even close.

 

Regardless, the academy has been a failure for years now. Barely any talent making our first team, if they are any good they leave. Something isn't right and it needs to be addressed pronto. For all the things good about Hearts just now, our academy is the polar opposite!

Our Youth team are appearing in a national cup final tonight.

That doesn't seem like failure to me.

I know the object is to produce players for the first team but it doesn't happen over night.

The academy has been badly run in the past but signs are that those mistakes have been rectified and hopefully we'll start to see the fruits of that in the next few years

[davemclaren]

30 minutes ago, goader said:

This was discussed at a recent HMSA dinner.  The government is also in the process of trying to scrap any compensation for youngsters.  As an example the £600K Celtic received for Doak would no longer happen.  Makes it even harder for Scottish clubs to retain young players I'm afraid

 

That was mentioned though I’ve seen nothing in the meeja about it, which is odd. 

[Mikey1874]

Training compensation was up in the air because of Brexit and new FIFA rules. 

 

I think current arrangements are temporary but not sure of the position overall. 

[Heartsofgold]

4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Yeah like Austin McPhee

Say what you like but, just because he was not a great manager for us (a bloody disaster in all honesty) he is highly regarded worldwide as a top class COACH of football players.

[westbow]

9 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10756055/Aston-Villa-talks-sign-15-year-old-Hearts-starlet-Ewan-Simpson.html
 

If Simpson leaves it’s a shame to lose another young player to EPL after Leonard went to Brighton, but shows the academy is successfully developing young players. 
 

Is there an incentive to stay at Hearts for our best kids versus developing in England and if so how can we get them to stay? 

If You are competing with real curve busters it can be disheartening. Students who are top of their class at a good school can easily fall to the bottom of a really good school. It might be better for your development staying somewhere in the middle ground like Hearts.

Malcom Gladwell wrote a book about this kind of thing in David and Goliath.

[briever]

Doaks who left Sellick for Liverpool is allegedly on £12k a week - for a 16yr old.

The EPL will eventually destroy football.

[westbow]

1 minute ago, briever said:

Doaks who left Sellick for Liverpool is allegedly on £12k a week - for a 16yr old.

The EPL will eventually destroy football.

£600k a year for a 16 year old? Oofyah that’ll not end well.

[upgotheheads]

9 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10756055/Aston-Villa-talks-sign-15-year-old-Hearts-starlet-Ewan-Simpson.html
 

If Simpson leaves it’s a shame to lose another young player to EPL after Leonard went to Brighton, but shows the academy is successfully developing young players. 
 

Is there an incentive to stay at Hearts for our best kids versus developing in England and if so how can we get them to stay? 

 

Maybe by pointing out that their long term prospects are better if they stay at a club where they have a decent chance of progressing through the ranks. I can think of loads of players who have gone south and who never get near the first team at clubs like Aston Villa.

 

9 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

If he was my son or more likely grandson I'd be imploring him to stay with Hearts and not just because I'm a Hearts supporter.

 

He's only 15.  Earn a contract by continuing to develop and impress.  The world will be his oyster in a few short years if he's good enough.  If he's not, he won't be succeeding anywhere.

 

Spot on.

[briever]

9 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

If he was my son or more likely grandson I'd be imploring him to stay with Hearts and not just because I'm a Hearts supporter.

 

He's only 15.  Earn a contract by continuing to develop and impress.  The world will be his oyster in a few short years if he's good enough.  If he's not, he won't be succeeding anywhere.

 

If he doesn't succeed he will have coined it in for a couple of seasons - that might be how they look at it.

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

The academy really has to be reviewed imo. 

If it costs "a lot" to run, we really need to ask ourselves is it worth it? 

 

Any really good young player bails out at the first opportunity and the average run of the mill types add nothing to us. 

Even guys like Holt and patterson bailed early and for no fee. 

 

We can't get them on long contracts so from a football or financial point of view we don't benefit hugely. 

 

I'm more and more heading towards scouting the 19-22 ish market down south and putting more resource into that. 

 

If the cost of running the academy is not expensive then I see merit in keeping it as it is and we'll always need a community presence at youth level, we couldn't just stop running youth football, but since the bosman and the rise of the English clubs financial clout I am struggling more and more  to see how this benefits us in an significant way. 

 

 

 

This.

 

2 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Some interesting and diverse views with no correct answer as it’s the boy and his family’s decision. 
it does make Hearts Academy more attractive if there’s potential to move to a better league therefore we can attract and compete to sign any player from around Scotland. 
Downside of course is losing the best players in the same way we can attract them. 
There’s very few players make the 1st team from Hearts Academy and Savage and the board must be looking at its purpose and adapt as required.
as said if we get a substantial fee with add on’s it will pay for itself. 
Chelsea (and no doubt other clubs) look to get one academy player per season into the 1st team which makes it pay its way, we are not doing that. 

 

Well it's a bit tricky when an English club can jump in and grab our best talent, something that is unlikely to happen to Chelsea. Your post is spot on though and, along with BRB's, is a conversation that should be taking place amongst all SPFL academies.

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Whatever decision the young lad makes, then very good luck to him.

I know a lad at Spartans U14s who next season will be at St Johnstone, another went to Hibs last season. I guarantee people will be on here moaning, as to why Hearts are not taking from Spartans. The answer is quite simple they do. Tells you what teams Hearts get their players from on the academy wall. Villa are taking one player from our U15s, if the deal happens. That means Hearts are still left with plenty more U15s, there is no guarantee for Villa that they have chosen the best and right player.

 

My personal opinion is that Villa simpy should not be allowed to sign a 15yr old player from another academy in another country.