Angus Stevenson

[KyleLafferty]

Just read this article just now regarding one of our youngsters. If Man City take him then where is the benefit for Hearts?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/hearts-teen-angus-stevenson-monitored-23571725.amp

[kingantti1874]

Well there is none, but we can’t do anything to stop it 

[SUTOL]

Development fee. 

 

 

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Just read this article just now regarding one of our youngsters. If Man City take him then where is the benefit for Hearts?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/hearts-teen-angus-stevenson-monitored-23571725.amp

Same as when Manchester United took David Gray and Danny Galbraith very little hopefully he does not turn out to be better than those two 

[Hungry hippo]

23 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Just read this article just now regarding one of our youngsters. If Man City take him then where is the benefit for Hearts?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/hearts-teen-angus-stevenson-monitored-23571725.amp

 

That's the nature of football. We nick plenty of players from smaller teams too so can't complain too much.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I suppose East Fife might be wondering the same thing. 

[iantjambo]

Who was the last young player, that left us and went onto great things?

 

 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, iantjambo said:

Who was the last young player, that left us and went onto great things?

 

 

McFadden probably but not the same sort of thing was Fletcher with us as a kid

[Sooks]

Hickey in a round a bout sort of way as well

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

Who was the last young player, that left us and went onto great things?

 

 

Craig Gordon went on to play for the mighty Heart of Midlothian

[Guest ToqueJambo]

58 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

That's the nature of football. We nick plenty of players from smaller teams too so can't complain too much.

 

 

Andy Webster, Craig Levein, Temps, Aaron Hickey.... 

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Andy Webster, Craig Levein, Temps, Aaron Hickey.... 

 

Was Hickey not at us first

[Sooks]

How is Marc Leonard getting on

[iantjambo]

26 minutes ago, Sooks said:

McFadden probably but not the same sort of thing was Fletcher with us as a kid

He was released though, wasn’t he? I mean’t a player that left us after an offer.

 

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Craig Gordon went on to play for the mighty Heart of Midlothian

He did 😁

[iantjambo]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Was Hickey not at us first

Joined us from Celtic.

[Ally Alexander]

1 minute ago, iantjambo said:

Joined us from Celtic.

Was with us as a under 12 .

 

[SomethingAboutObua]

5 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Was Hickey not at us first

I thought he was us, Celtic, back to us too

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

Just read this article just now regarding one of our youngsters. If Man City take him then where is the benefit for Hearts?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/hearts-teen-angus-stevenson-monitored-23571725.amp

 

Like when Billy Gilmour moved from Rangers to Chelsea, there's nothing we could do to stop it other than offer him the best terms we can, but if he moved then we would be entitled to a development fee. 

 

Gilmour ended up costing Chelsea £500k with additional performance related payments. 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Batistuta87

[jamtartan74]

6 minutes ago, SomethingAboutObua said:

I thought he was us, Celtic, back to us too

He was 👍🏻

[iantjambo]

13 minutes ago, Ally Alexander said:

Was with us as a under 12 .

 

He went from us, to Celtic, back to us?

 

I genuinely didn’t know that.

[Batistuta87]

5 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

He went from us, to Celtic, back to us?

 

I genuinely didn’t know that.

Don't know when he first started with Hearts but he was here until U12, went to Celtic up to U16, then signed a pro youth contract with us when he turned 16. 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

18 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

 

Like when Billy Gilmour moved from Rangers to Chelsea, there's nothing we could do to stop it other than offer him the best terms we can, but if he moved then we would be entitled to a development fee. 

 

Gilmour ended up costing Chelsea £500k with additional performance related payments. 

 

 

Sadly its the way it has gone. Thanks to Brexit, Premier league clubs look to the UK for youngsters due to restrictions signing under 18s from abroad. So it means that Scottish clubs will be plundered more. Man City also love a Scottish youngster at the moment, with 3 in their Under 18s (who were signed aged 16 from Rangers, Celtic and Kilmarnock.)

 

One interesting thing because of this, is that its a lot harder for English clubs to recruit U18 Republic of Ireland players who are based in Ireland. So it has meant clubs from throughout Europe are now trying to sign Irish youth players.

 

All we can do as you say is offer the best terms and hope that the chance of getting first team football earlier can get them to stay.

[Rudy T]

6 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Don't know when he first started with Hearts but he was here until U12, went to Celtic up to U16, then signed a pro youth contract with us when he turned 16. 

 

And somehow we ended up having to pay Celtic money from his transfer fee, whoever agreed to that needs a will smith style slap across the boat race!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

And somehow we ended up having to pay Celtic money from his transfer fee, whoever agreed to that needs a will smith style slap across the boat race!

 

Thought it was common knowledge that Craig Levein was responsible for signing, developing and selling for a very large profit (plus more to come) one of the best youngsters we've ever had at Hearts. Not sure it's a slap he deserves, unless it's a hearty slap on the back to say "cheers"!

Edited April 1, 2022 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

46 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

Was Hickey not at us first

 

Weren't we his first pro contract after signing him back from Celtic? Either way, I just included him to make a crap joke at Celtic's expense about signing players from smaller clubs

[SUTOL]

12 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

And somehow we ended up having to pay Celtic money from his transfer fee, whoever agreed to that needs a will smith style slap across the boat race!

 

 

It was a sell on clause which avoided us paying a transfer fee up-front. 

 

A sell on fee like the one we will get when Hickey is next sold.

[jamboinglasgow]

13 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

And somehow we ended up having to pay Celtic money from his transfer fee, whoever agreed to that needs a will smith style slap across the boat race!

 

not really, as far as I understand it we would have been due to pay Celtic compensation when he signed for us as he had chosen to sign for us rather than sign a contract with Celtic. However an arrangement was made that we dont pay compensation and instead Celtic get a cut of his fee. 

 

Hardly a terrible deal.

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

It was a sell on clause which avoided us paying a transfer fee up-front. 

 

A sell on fee like the one we will get when Hickey is next sold.

It’s a brass neck is what it is!

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

not really, as far as I understand it we would have been due to pay Celtic compensation when he signed for us as he had chosen to sign for us rather than sign a contract with Celtic. However an arrangement was made that we dont pay compensation and instead Celtic get a cut of his fee. 

 

Hardly a terrible deal.

He was our player to start with. It’s a not exactly a great deal is it.

[SUTOL]

Just now, Rudy T said:

It’s a brass neck is what it is!

 

 

What our sell on fee for Hickey? 

 

Or should we have paid Celtic £50,000 to sign him? 

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

What our sell on fee for Hickey? 

 

Or should we have paid Celtic £50,000 to sign him? 

How much did we pay them from the transfer? I’d have no issue with it if he wasn’t our player to start with

[SUTOL]

Just now, Rudy T said:

How much did we pay them from the transfer? I’d have no issue with it if he wasn’t our player to start with

 

We didn't pay a transfer fee for him, that's why there was a sell on instead. 

 

 

He was at Hearts, then went to Celtic. Then back to Hearts. 

I don't know if there was any fee involved when he left Hearts to go to Celtic. 

[Rudy T]

Just now, SUTOL said:

 

We didn't pay a transfer fee for him, that's why there was a sell on instead. 

 

 

He was at Hearts, then went to Celtic. Then back to Hearts. 

I don't know if there was any fee involved when he left Hearts to go to Celtic. 

I know but how much did Celtic get from his transfer from us to Bologna?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

How much did we pay them from the transfer? I’d have no issue with it if he wasn’t our player to start with

 

They got something like £500k from the Bologna deal didn't they? However, by first letting him go, then not signing him for a couple of million from us when they could have, they stand to lose millions. We on the other hand could realistically end up making over £3m profit if our sell-on % and the rumoured transfer fees are anywhere close. Not too shabby. Hickey could end up being our second most profitable sale after CG.

[SUTOL]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

I know but how much did Celtic get from his transfer from us to Bologna?

 

 

I believe it was a percentage of the transfer fee we received.

I'm not sure if the transfer fee was ever fully disclosed or if the percentage was. 

[iantjambo]

38 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Don't know when he first started with Hearts but he was here until U12, went to Celtic up to U16, then signed a pro youth contract with us when he turned 16. 

 

Cheers for that, mate👍🏻
 

I honestly didn’t know he started with us. Thought he joined us from Celtic

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

I believe it was a percentage of the transfer fee we received.

I'm not sure if the transfer fee was ever fully disclosed or if the percentage was. 

 

Most sources seemed to say about £1.5 - £1.8 transfer fee with Celtic getting up to 30%.

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They got something like £500k from the Bologna deal didn't they? However, by first letting him go, then not signing him for a couple of million from us when they could have, they stand to lose millions. We on the other hand could realistically end up making over £3m profit if our sell-on % and the rumoured transfer fees are anywhere close. Not too shabby. Hickey could end up being our second most profitable sale after CG.

 

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

They got something like £500k from the Bologna deal didn't they? However, by first letting him go, then not signing him for a couple of million from us when they could have, they stand to lose millions. We on the other hand could realistically end up making over £3m profit if our sell-on % and the rumoured transfer fees are anywhere close. Not too shabby. Hickey could end up being our second most profitable sale after CG.

 

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

I believe it was a percentage of the transfer fee we received.

I'm not sure if the transfer fee was ever fully disclosed or if the percentage was. 

and that’s what rips my knitting, Celtic take a lad from our academy and make half a million quid on him by effectively giving him back to us as they had no intention of playing him in their first team. It’s highly unlikely Aaron Hickey would be on the verge of a 20million quid transfer to the EPL had we not taken him back.

[SUTOL]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

How is Marc Leonard getting on

 

Pretty regular this season for Brighton U23's in their division. He's been on the first team bench a few times since November. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just looked him up on Transfermarkt. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by SUTOL

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

 

and that’s what rips my knitting, Celtic take a lad from our academy and make half a million quid on him by effectively giving him back to us as they had no intention of playing him in their first team. It’s highly unlikely Aaron Hickey would be on the verge of a 20million quid transfer to the EPL had we not taken him back.

 

In the grand scale of things this has to be seen as a major win for us though and a major fail for Celtic, especially given they had him, let him go, then could have bought him for under 2m from us (but did the same thing they did with John McGinn and tried to lowball us), and especially given they could have then sold him to Bologna for a lot more than we could if they'd wanted to just by being called Celtic. And they did all that when they needed a LB.

[Niemi’s gloves]

Odd series of posts from @Rudy T

 

It seems to me that Aaron’s dad has done a really good job of managing his career to Aaron’s advantage. Along the way we have made a good chunk of money and seen a season or so of him in a Hearts shirt. Ok Celtic have also benefited to a much lesser extent. But youngsters that join the academy aren’t slaves for life.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Niemi’s gloves

[Newton51]

Not good for clubs like this when clubs pinch players before turning pro. What chance have we got. Hopefully the lad gives us a chance but who says no to Man City 

[Rudy T]

2 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Odd series of posts from @Rudy T

 

It seems to me that Aaron’s dad has done a really good job of managing his career to Aaron’s advantage. Along the way we have made a good chunk of money and seen a season or so of him in a Hearts shirt. Ok Celtic have also benefited to a much lesser extent. But youngsters that join the academy aren’t slaves for life.

Its no slight on Hickey I wish the lad every success and his dad has done a brilliant job, I just get annoyed at the way Celtic behave when it comes to young players careers and Scottish players in general. They cherry pick from the academy’s and then have the brass neck to want these types of clauses. How many times over the years have they bemoaned the lack of competition hindering their European campaigns yet if there’s an opportunity to fleece a smaller club they’ll take it. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Its no slight on Hickey I wish the lad every success and his dad has done a brilliant job, I just get annoyed at the way Celtic behave when it comes to young players careers and Scottish players in general. They cherry pick from the academy’s and then have the brass neck to want these types of clauses. How many times over the years have they bemoaned the lack of competition hindering their European campaigns yet if there’s an opportunity to fleece a smaller club they’ll take it. 

 

All true but this time the tables were turned though. We fleeced them. No idea how long Hickey had been in our academy mind you and wasn't he living in Glasgow? This looks like a simple case of we recognised Hickey's ability and they didn't (they underestimated his ability and value twice in fact). They probably put a clause on every transfer like that if they don't get a development fee.

Edited April 1, 2022 by ToqueJambo

[Sooks]

Hard to disagree with Rudy T really it is nothing to do with slavery it is really annoying that we often do not get a decent fee for our young players when Celtic or Rangers get a great many millions for the same players or players of comparable potential

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Hard to disagree with Rudy T really it is nothing to do with slavery it is really annoying that we often do not get a decent fee for our young players when Celtic or Rangers get a great many millions for the same players or players of comparable potential

 

Definitely annoying but they can afford to risk losing a million or two by holding out for a bigger fee while everyone else can't, and players are less likely to just run down their contracts with them, which can push the other clubs to sell to avoid that risk.

 

What annoys me more is their penny-pinching when it comes to redistributing wealth in Scottish football. They're happy to pay 4-5m for mediocre foreign players but rarely pay that for Scottish players. In stead they go in with low ball offers designed to unsettle players. They may need to change that after missing out on the likes of McGinn and Hickey recently though. And Rangers might regret not forking out 500k for Souttar if they get an injury in the run in with a lot of games to play. Instead they've probably paid more than that for Ramsay already and he's barely played.

Edited April 1, 2022 by ToqueJambo

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

And somehow we ended up having to pay Celtic money from his transfer fee, whoever agreed to that needs a will smith style slap across the boat race!

Because that's who he left to sign a pro contract with us. Celtic waived their right to a development fee in exchange for a sell-on. 

 

[Unknown user]

39 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Its no slight on Hickey I wish the lad every success and his dad has done a brilliant job, I just get annoyed at the way Celtic behave when it comes to young players careers and Scottish players in general. They cherry pick from the academy’s and then have the brass neck to want these types of clauses. How many times over the years have they bemoaned the lack of competition hindering their European campaigns yet if there’s an opportunity to fleece a smaller club they’ll take it. 

 

Hickey was only with us for a year (or maybe 2) before going to Celtic for 4, at age 12.

We only had him for one full season before selling him on, so really he was at Celtic longer than Hearts overall.

[Rudy T]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Hickey was only with us for a year (or maybe 2) before going to Celtic for 4, at age 12.

We only had him for one full season before selling him on, so really he was at Celtic longer than Hearts overall.

Fair enough, I’ll pipe down on Hickey. However it’s doesn’t change my opinion on Celtics policy regarding the academy’s, they treat them like their own scouting network, any promising youngsters and they think they’ve got the right to take them. The Colts team was their latest tactic for tempting them to move.

[Sooks]

23 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

Fair enough, I’ll pipe down on Hickey. However it’s doesn’t change my opinion on Celtics policy regarding the academy’s, they treat them like their own scouting network, any promising youngsters and they think they’ve got the right to take them. The Colts team was their latest tactic for tempting them to move.

They are also looking to build an east coast base to try and hoover up more kids from our region