VAR it definitely is not the answer

[jambo-in-furness]

As said, I’ve just watched MOTD,  VAR is getting decisions wrong, not all of the time, but enough to call it into question.

[D4nny_]

Think the incident with Morelos against Dortmund was the eye opener for me. If it’s getting single decisions like that wrong and not showing the ref all the angles then what’s the point.

[jambo-in-furness]

4 minutes ago, D4nny_ said:

Think the incident with Morelos against Dortmund was the eye opener for me. If it’s getting single decisions like that wrong and not showing the ref all the angles then what’s the point.

The no penalty decision in the Everton v Man city game today where the camera angle shown on motd clearly shows it was a penalty yet, VAR does not have the technology to show that angle to the match official

[geomac]

it may not be the perfect answer but it is sooooo much better than the Sh!t we have, No?

[OTT]

Been thinking, this might sound pretty out there right, but why don't we just train our referees properly and promote referees based on their ability rather than what association they belong to?

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there are guys not just in Edinburgh, but Dundee, Aberdeen, the Highlands that are much better than Beaton, Dallas Jnr, Madden etc. but aren't getting the chances because they're not from one of the west coast 4 (Ayrshire, Lanarkshire, Renfewshire and Glasgow). 

 

Reason I'm saying this is because even Collina says VAR is just a tool. What happens if you give a shite tradesman better tools? Their product is still shite, they just have shiny new equipment paid for in this case by the clubs. 

 

The clubs should be demanding transparency in which associations refs are from and then should be asking questions about why there only appears to be one referee from outside Glasgow in the top flight despite there being 8 other associations out with Glasgow/the west. 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

I'll take var over Don Robertson or Willie Collum 8 days a week.

[Bull's-eye]

5 minutes ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

I'll take var over Don Robertson or Willie Collum 8 days a week.

 

The trouble is, it'd be Robertson, Collum, Beaton & Madden etc etc as the VAR. 

 

Perish the thought.

[OTT]

Just now, Bull's-eye said:

 

The trouble is, it'd be Robertson, Collum, Beaton & Madden etc etc as the VAR. 

 

Perish the thought.

 

Exactly. They have no credibility or respect. The fact that managers train with 10 men before going to Glasgow or the phrase 'long glasgow blink' even exists tells its own story. 

 

VAR is throwing good money after bad. I think we do need VAR, but we need better officials first. Otherwise we're pissing in the wind. 

[Waterboy]

It's not great but it has solved a lot of problems. The odd obvious error still comes up, like Everton today, but on the whole it's a benefit.

 

I think up here that if nothing else, it removes a referees possible excuse of not seeing an incident. Too many times over the years we've been on the wrong end of a shocker vs the Old Firm, but there's always the potential excuse of not having a good angle or it happened so fast it's hard to see in real time. With VAR the refs will know that we know they've seen the incident, and if they're still going to ignore it then their integrity really has to come in to question at that point. 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Waterboy said:

It's not great but it has solved a lot of problems. The odd obvious error still comes up, like Everton today, but on the whole it's a benefit.

 

I think up here that if nothing else, it removes a referees possible excuse of not seeing an incident. Too many times over the years we've been on the wrong end of a shocker vs the Old Firm, but there's always the potential excuse of not having a good angle or it happened so fast it's hard to see in real time. With VAR the refs will know that we know they've seen the incident, and if they're still going to ignore it then their integrity really has to come in to question at that point. 

That was no error at Everton, that was cheating.

[Jambo314]

9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

That was no error at Everton, that was cheating.

Never a penalty

[naeclue]

Think VAR would have had St Mirren deservedly down to 9 players yesterday, two horrific challenges inside a minute.  
 

VAR is imperfect, but does remove a lot of really awful clunkers of decisions.

 

I agree with poster above, problem is our FA who see no issue with the massive regional bias in the geographical make up of our officials.

[boag1874]

The clubs need to band together for change with these refs because it’s beyond a joke how bad they’ve been recently, they’ve never been great but this season has been an absolute farce

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Jambo314 said:

Never a penalty

[EH11 2NL]

You'll always have human error, the way forward for scotland is non biased refs. That means European refs, not people that have grown up in the old firm circus. 

 

You see Beaton at a hun bar after refereeing a game ffs. 

[Deevers]

8 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

I'll take var over Don Robertson or Willie Collum 8 days a week.

The problem here is you would have one of that pair in the middle and the likes of Madden or Beaton operating  the VAR.  Here , it wouldn’t be the VAR that would be the problem, it would be that we would still have the same collection of West Coast incompetents, cheats, and old firm affectionados operating it.

[LarrysRightFoot]

VAR is causing as many problems as it solves. It’s a definite no for me. 
 

Goal line technology is a yes as it’s a definitive yes or no - not open to interpretation. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, jambo-in-furness said:

As said, I’ve just watched MOTD,  VAR is getting decisions wrong, not all of the time, but enough to call it into question.

 

It's not the technology at fault. It's the muppets making or not making the decisions.

[LarrysRightFoot]

8 hours ago, D4nny_ said:

Think the incident with Morelos against Dortmund was the eye opener for me. If it’s getting single decisions like that wrong and not showing the ref all the angles then what’s the point.

Yep, I don’t know no how some things get selected to be looked at and others don’t. 
 

I watched a bit of Leeds v Spurs yesterday and Kulusevski pushed a Leeds player in the box as he went to shoot and it wasn’t even looked at. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's not the technology at fault. It's the muppets making or not making the decisions.

That’s true but that the same as now. So what’s the point on spending money on it? Plus again there’s no consistency on what gets reviewed and what doesn’t.  

[LarrysRightFoot]

10 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

You'll always have human error, the way forward for scotland is non biased refs. That means European refs, not people that have grown up in the old firm circus. 

 

You see Beaton at a hun bar after refereeing a game ffs. 

I agree with this. When it comes to football we live in an inherently biased country - a lot of refs are honest and will try to leave it at the door, others can’t and too easily swayed. 
 

I know it’s old but is there not a famous picture of a ref giving a rangers player a masons hand shake before a game? 

[martoon]

8 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

The trouble is, it'd be Robertson, Collum, Beaton & Madden etc etc as the VAR. 

 

Perish the thought.

 

8 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Exactly. They have no credibility or respect. The fact that managers train with 10 men before going to Glasgow or the phrase 'long glasgow blink' even exists tells its own story. 

 

VAR is throwing good money after bad. I think we do need VAR, but we need better officials first. Otherwise we're pissing in the wind. 

 

👏

 

My thoughts, too.

 

We'll be paying £90k+ a season and for what? The blatant old firm bias to be seen even more clearly than ever before but without anything actually changing.

 

Scottish football is rank rotten and that's the way the SFA, SPFL, officials, press and media like it.

[martoon]

4 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

I agree with this. When it comes to football we live in an inherently biased country - a lot of refs are honest and will try to leave it at the door, others can’t and too easily swayed. 
 

I know it’s old but is there not a famous picture of a ref giving a rangers player a masons hand shake before a game? 

 

John Greig and Tom "Tiny" Wharton, if memory serves.

[Fraggle]

8 hours ago, Waterboy said:

It's not great but it has solved a lot of problems. The odd obvious error still comes up, like Everton today, but on the whole it's a benefit.

 

I think up here that if nothing else, it removes a referees possible excuse of not seeing an incident. Too many times over the years we've been on the wrong end of a shocker vs the Old Firm, but there's always the potential excuse of not having a good angle or it happened so fast it's hard to see in real time. With VAR the refs will know that we know they've seen the incident, and if they're still going to ignore it then their integrity really has to come in to question at that point. 

My view is completely the other way, VAR will just be another tool used by our officials to favour the OF. Its up to the VAR officials to decide what is reviewed, the very same officials like Robertson, Collum, etc.

 

Dubious Offside goal against the OF, or potential penalty claim for them..... VAR studios in Glasgow all over it. Any other team claiming against the OF.... VAR studios in Glasgow nothing to see here, carry on as normal ref. 

 

The only way VAR will work in Scotland is if it is managed externally by sources out with the UK. I'm betting, from what has been reported so far about VAR in the SPFL, that it will be some watered down cheap B&M version that will heap even more embarrassment on our game whilst Doncaster and Co continue the Weegie cabal. 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

John Greig and Tom "Tiny" Wharton, if memory serves.

Are all Masons Rangers fans?

[martoon]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Are all Masons Rangers fans?

 

Wouldn't know.

 

Never been near a lodge in my life.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Wouldn't know.

 

Never been near a lodge in my life.

So what does the photo mean? Other than both guys being Masons. 

[kingantti1874]

9 hours ago, jambo-in-furness said:

As said, I’ve just watched MOTD,  VAR is getting decisions wrong, not all of the time, but enough to call it into question.

95% of the time it is correct. So it definitely is the answer

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So what does the photo mean? Other than both guys being Masons. 

 

I didn't take the photo. Nor did I mention it first. I was answering @LarrysRightFoot.

 

As for what it means, or suggests, I don't really have to talk you through it, do I?

[part_time_jambo]

35 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

The clubs need to band together for change with these refs because it’s beyond a joke how bad they’ve been recently, they’ve never been great but this season has been an absolute farce

I seem to recall similar comments last season.

 

And the season before that.

 

And the season before that.

 

And the season before that.

 

And the season before that.

 

And the season before that.

 

And the season before that.

 

etc

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

Been thinking, this might sound pretty out there right, but why don't we just train our referees properly and promote referees based on their ability rather than what association they belong to?

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that there are guys not just in Edinburgh, but Dundee, Aberdeen, the Highlands that are much better than Beaton, Dallas Jnr, Madden etc. but aren't getting the chances because they're not from one of the west coast 4 (Ayrshire, Lanarkshire, Renfewshire and Glasgow). 

 

Reason I'm saying this is because even Collina says VAR is just a tool. What happens if you give a shite tradesman better tools? Their product is still shite, they just have shiny new equipment paid for in this case by the clubs. 

 

The clubs should be demanding transparency in which associations refs are from and then should be asking questions about why there only appears to be one referee from outside Glasgow in the top flight despite there being 8 other associations out with Glasgow/the west. 

 

8 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Exactly. They have no credibility or respect. The fact that managers train with 10 men before going to Glasgow or the phrase 'long glasgow blink' even exists tells its own story. 

 

VAR is throwing good money after bad. I think we do need VAR, but we need better officials first. Otherwise we're pissing in the wind. 

 

37 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's not the technology at fault. It's the muppets making or not making the decisions.

 

The 3 posts above are bang on.

 

VAR isn't the issue, piss poor usage of it is though.

[Harry Potter]

9 hours ago, jambo-in-furness said:

As said, I’ve just watched MOTD,  VAR is getting decisions wrong, not all of the time, but enough to call it into question.

Its only as good as the folk checking the video, 

[Bull's-eye]

29 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

👏

 

My thoughts, too.

 

We'll be paying £90k+ a season and for what? The blatant old firm bias to be seen even more clearly than ever before but without anything actually changing.

 

Scottish football is rank rotten and that's the way the SFA, SPFL, officials, press and media like it.

 

Imagine . . . . . . SC final . . Hearts v Celtic at Hampden Park. . . . Today's officials are John Beaton on pitch, 4th official Bobby Madden and in the VAR room is Willie Collum   😳

 

Frightening !!!

[LarrysRightFoot]

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So what does the photo mean? Other than both guys being Masons. 

Well the funniest bit is that it’s backfired on me a bit with it being a mason Jambo 😂 

 

However, it’s a famous for a reason, it’s clear what it insinuates. Do you believe corruption and bias hasn’t and or/doesn’t exist in Scottish football? 

[EH11 2NL]

6 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Imagine . . . . . . SC final . . Hearts v Celtic at Hampden Park. . . . Today's officials are John Beaton on pitch, 4th official Bobby Madden and in the VAR room is Willie Collum   😳

 

Frightening !!!

For another "historic treble", their pals at the newspapers and sky already have their headlines written. We'd have no chance. 

[John Findlay]

34 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

95% of the time it is correct. So it definitely is the answer

I think you mean, 95% of the officials watching it are correct. The technology doesn't make a decision, the human being watching the technology does.

[jamboinglasgow]

I used to be in favour of VAR, but after how it was implemented down in England I would rather not have it up here. One thing it does is take away the joy of celebrating a goal, the fact you could have it ruled out a minute later means you will always left with doubt and not celebrate as hard.  

[LarrysRightFoot]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I think you mean, 95% of the officials watching it are correct. The technology doesn't make a decision, the human being watching the technology does.

Exactly the technology doesn’t change what’s happened. 
 

I think we are better off without it. Football is better for its imperfections. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by LarrysRightFoot

[kingantti1874]

17 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I think you mean, 95% of the officials watching it are correct. The technology doesn't make a decision, the human being watching the technology does.

I mean it( the system - the cameras, the people and the processes)  has helped to correct 95% of incorrect decisions..  the fact  that the few remaining are highlighted should distract away from the clear positives.

we all know when there is a benefit of the doubt decisions rangers or Celtic get the benefit, with VAR that cannot continue to the same extent. There is no way they could get away with it to the same extent and be able to justify it.. 

 

I find it absolutely mental that any non old firm fan wouldn’t want it.. 

 

regardless - it’s just a statement of fact. It is the answer and it will happen regardless of opinion

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by kingantti1874

[Central Belt 1874]

55 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

My view is completely the other way, VAR will just be another tool used by our officials to favour the OF. Its up to the VAR officials to decide what is reviewed, the very same officials like Robertson, Collum, etc.

 

Dubious Offside goal against the OF, or potential penalty claim for them..... VAR studios in Glasgow all over it. Any other team claiming against the OF.... VAR studios in Glasgow nothing to see here, carry on as normal ref. 

 

The only way VAR will work in Scotland is if it is managed externally by sources out with the UK. I'm betting, from what has been reported so far about VAR in the SPFL, that it will be some watered down cheap B&M version that will heap even more embarrassment on our game whilst Doncaster and Co continue the Weegie cabal. 

 

Absolutely 100%.

 

I'm all for goal line technology though.

 

VAR? No chance. 

[Central Belt 1874]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I mean it has helped to correct 95% of incorrect decisions..  the fact  that the few remaining are highlighted should distract away from the clear positives.

we all know when we all know when there is a benefit of the doubt decisions rangers or Celtic get the benefit, with VAR that cannot continue to the same extent. There is no way they could get away with it to the same extent and be able to justify it.. there is a benefit of the doubt decisions rangers or Celtic get the benefit, with VAR that cannot continue to the same extent. There is no way they could get away with it to the same extent and be able to justify it.. 

 

I find it absolutely mental that any non old firm fan wouldn’t want it.. 

 

regardless - it’s just a statement of fact. It is the answer and it will happen regardless of opinion

 

 

 

I'm not sure how you can say that?

 

If you have been watching English football regularly since VAR was introduced you will know fine well there have been many absolutely shocking decisions just ignored by VAR officials, the press and importantly, SKY. 

 

The introduction of VAR in Scotland will not help non OF teams. You would have to be extremely naive to think otherwise. 

[JDK2020]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's not the technology at fault. It's the muppets making or not making the decisions.

 

When you consider that each successive one of the SFA's Compliance Officers have, rather miraculously, been supporters of the one club in Glasgow is there any reason to believe the same influence would not be brought to bear by the same authorities to select from the same grouping whilst recruiting for VAR personnel?

You would need to bring in technicians/reviewers from outwith Scotland to get any real chance of impartiality.

 

[DETTY29]

47 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Imagine . . . . . . SC final . . Hearts v Celtic at Hampden Park. . . . Today's officials are John Beaton on pitch, 4th official Bobby Madden and in the VAR room is Willie Collum   😳

 

Frightening !!!

Actually if you take Edouard's simulation in the 2019 Cup final, Crawford Allan told me categorically my view of there being simulation was wrong and it was a clear penalty.

Edited February 27, 2022 by DETTY29

[jr ewing]

Just needs a few more angles but definitely the way forward. 

[kingantti1874]

14 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

 

I'm not sure how you can say that?

 

If you have been watching English football regularly since VAR was introduced you will know fine well there have been many absolutely shocking decisions just ignored by VAR officials, the press and importantly, SKY. 

 

The introduction of VAR in Scotland will not help non OF teams. You would have to be extremely naive to think otherwise. 

Yeah I’ve watched it. The number of correct decisions has increased massively.  They still get some wrong but no where near as many but they are highlighted more which isn’t a bad thing is it.
 

no, they wouldn’t continually be able to give the old firm the benefit of the doubt, and they wouldn’t be able to leverage VAR to somehow give them more benefit. 
 

and no I’m not naive.  I’m right 

[Waterboy]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Yeah I’ve watched it. The number of correct decisions has increased massively.  They still get some wrong but no where near as many but they are highlighted more which isn’t a bad thing is it.
 

no, they wouldn’t continually be able to give the old firm the benefit of the doubt, and they wouldn’t be able to leverage VAR to somehow give them more benefit. 
 

and no I’m not naive.  I’m right 

 

100%. The big mistakes surrounding VAR obviously stick in people's minds causing them to think it's a disaster. It's been hugely successful in ensuring correct decisions are made, and makes things so much more visible to the point the referees are almost forced in to giving a decision even if they originally didn't give it - something the entire league could desperately do with in games vs the Old Firm.

[Percival King]

There's always a tendency to focus on the debatable/wrong decisions but there are loads of decisions which VAR gets right and, for me, it's been a benefit to the game. If we're looking for a perfect system, VAR isn't it but such a perfect system doesn't exist. There should, however, be a recognition that it isn't perfect and therefore a desire to keep improving it. That might be using all available camera angles, might be explaining certain decisions better - I've watched Hearts for almost 50 years but would admit that I'm no expert on the rules (like a lot of fans, players, managers and pundits) - I would find it useful to have certain seemingly contentious decisions explained - I've watched English games on TV where an ex-referee has explained he rationale for a decision and pundits like Dixon and Keown have still challenged it, perhaps because the current laws are different to what they were when they were playing. Anyway, I'm going off at a tangent. Stick with VAR but recognise it's a journey, not the destination.

 

[Bainy]

The var refs should explain their decisions after a game, especially ridiculous ones like the city handball. Pointless if they don't have access to all angles of the incident surely that's the point of it that it gives them that advantage. 

 

We would still get ridiculous decisions up here as it would be the corrupt refs sitting in the var box. Ones that are argued over will still go in favour of certain teams leaving us justvas baffled and annoyed as they do now. 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Well the funniest bit is that it’s backfired on me a bit with it being a mason Jambo 😂 

 

However, it’s a famous for a reason, it’s clear what it insinuates. Do you believe corruption and bias hasn’t and or/doesn’t exist in Scottish football? 

Against those two, yes, but I've also seen plenty of fortune for us. 🤝

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, Bainy said:

The var refs should explain their decisions after a game, especially ridiculous ones like the city handball. Pointless if they don't have access to all angles of the incident surely that's the point of it that it gives them that advantage. 

 

We would still get ridiculous decisions up here as it would be the corrupt refs sitting in the var box. Ones that are argued over will still go in favour of certain teams leaving us justvas baffled and annoyed as they do now. 

Surely the ref should have the same TV camera access as the broadcasters.

 

Or the broadcasters should only be allowed same angles as the VAR ref.

 

Edit - instead of surely, perhaps is it possible to align both.

Edited February 27, 2022 by DETTY29