Russia Invades Ukraine

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 26/11/2024 at 11:55, redjambo said:

 

Oh come on, don't be like that. Try instead to provide proof of borders that were not "properly defined" in some way.

 

That one was a funny one. Back in like 1987 or 1988 my history teacher insisted we memorize the 15 Soviet republics and could draw them on a map. There weren't any fuzzy boundaries between the republics then, and on breakup it was widely accepted that those would be the national boundaries.

 

Otherwise very likely there would have been a pie fight over Russia's control of Siberia, which it really has no more long term historical right to than, say, Estonia.

[Ally]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

Trump has said that he'll end the war before his inauguration in January.  I have no idea what his plan is, but he has about 8 weeks left.

I think you and Trump may be aligned on this one.

[cosanostra]

I think the chances of Trump standing up to Putin are not high. He's more likely to threaten Ukraine with removing support and have a nice little phone call with Vlad afterwards to hear some compliments about how strong he is.

[Dirty Deeds]

It's hard to shed a tear for a dead Russian while the country destroys their neighbour. Today it's the electricity grid (again).

 

The West's failure to let Ukraine strike arms depots within Russia has resulted in more deaths and a longer war and now, Trump will likely reward Russia with a frozen conflict and a whole lot of land and minerals to reward his pals.

 

Meanwhile life for the ordinary Russian will continue to be living in a place where speaking your mind in public gets you killed.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I do have sympathy to an extent for Russian soldiers ,they are brutalised in training ,turned into monsters and just seen as cannon fodder ,the way of the Russian army since Ivan the terrible to today .

Russian training is nothing like the western military .

Hence why they commite offences such as rape etc on such a high level the behaviour os almost encouraged .

There are stories of Russian soldiers returning on leave creating mayhem as they are so fecked in the head ,to a point they should take some responsibility for there own actions but 

It's Putin and his acolytes the generals who should one day be in the dock .

 

 

[Sawdust Caesar]

20 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Trump envoy

 

https://bsky.app/profile/ioponomarenko.bsky.social/post/3lbxcwokq5c2c

 

 

 Here is being interviewed on Fox. If I was Ukrainian I'd be a wee bit encouraged, but with some obvious trepidation, by his comments. Hopefully he can persuade Trump not to abandon Ukraine.

 

 

 

[Sawdust Caesar]

20 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Trump envoy

 

https://bsky.app/profile/ioponomarenko.bsky.social/post/3lbxcwokq5c2c

 

 

 Here is being interviewed on Fox. If I was Ukrainian I'd be a wee bit encouraged, but with some obvious trepidation, by his comments. Hopefully he can persuade Trump not to abandon Ukraine.

 

 

 

[Cruyff]

21 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

Trump has said that he'll end the war before his inauguration in January.  I have no idea what his plan is, but he has about 8 weeks left.

I think that's how he will try to negotiate it because that's how Donald Trump works. And, if Putin doesn't cave, then it could get a lot worse. 

 

I personally can't see how either side concedes anything when both sides are in a Mexican standoff and Putin has many more cards up his sleeve. 

 

The Russians are apparently going to launch another ballistic missile strike on Ukrainian military infrastructure with their Hazel system.

 

If they were too do that, and destroy Ukrainians command and control, aviation, warehouses etc... the Ukrainians are technically toast. 

 

They could take out everything with those missiles without resorting to nukes. There's nothing that can stop those things that we know about. 

[AlimOzturk]

18 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think that's how he will try to negotiate it because that's how Donald Trump works. And, if Putin doesn't cave, then it could get a lot worse. 

 

I personally can't see how either side concedes anything when both sides are in a Mexican standoff and Putin has many more cards up his sleeve. 

 

The Russians are apparently going to launch another ballistic missile strike on Ukrainian military infrastructure with their Hazel system.

 

If they were too do that, and destroy Ukrainians command and control, aviation, warehouses etc... the Ukrainians are technically toast. 

 

They could take out everything with those missiles without resorting to nukes. There's nothing that can stop those things that we know about. 

If that’s the case why haven’t they already?

[Cade]

Oreshnik is still experimental.

Nobody know how many they have.

There are a few unconfirmed reports that they tried to fire a 2nd one on the same day as the first but it went off target and crashed.

Some analysts reckon it was a panic response as the warheads were empty and all that struck were the empty re-entry vehicles themselves.

Could all be a bluff. As usual.

It'd perhaps be churlish to draw comparisons to the V2.......

 

 

[Cruyff]

51 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

If that’s the case why haven’t they already?

It would be a huge escalation. I think NATO, or certainly the European Nations would intervene at that point. 

[vegas-voss]

21 hours ago, cosanostra said:

I think the chances of Trump standing up to Putin are not high. He's more likely to threaten Ukraine with removing support and have a nice little phone call with Vlad afterwards to hear some compliments about how strong he is.

If the War ended tomorrow Trump would claim it was because of him and his half baked supporters would believe him.

[Hansel]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

If the War ended tomorrow Trump would claim it was because of him and his half baked supporters would believe him.

They believe anything he says. Completely mental

[cosanostra]

6 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

 Here is being interviewed on Fox. If I was Ukrainian I'd be a wee bit encouraged, but with some obvious trepidation, by his comments. Hopefully he can persuade Trump not to abandon Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

That was interesting. He seems a damn sight more knowledgeable and intelligent than Trump.

[scott herbertson]

12 hours ago, cosanostra said:

 

That was interesting. He seems a damn sight more knowledgeable and intelligent than Trump.

 

I think that's what they call a 'low bar'

[Cruyff]

Assad and Putins forces taking a beating from Turkish and NATO backed rebels in Syria. Assad better get his private jet fuelled up. 

[Mikey1874]

23 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

 Here is being interviewed on Fox. If I was Ukrainian I'd be a wee bit encouraged, but with some obvious trepidation, by his comments. Hopefully he can persuade Trump not to abandon Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

I've just read his America First document. Although presented as anti Ukraine at the time, it's says 3 main things outside the anti Biden pro Trump rhetoric.

 

1. Biden didn't give Ukraine what it needed to win.

 

2. A ceasefire should happen when there is a stalemate which is now 2 years in.

 

3. It is really tough for Ukraine to consider not taking back all its territory in any ceasefire. 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Assad and Putins forces taking a beating from Turkish and NATO backed rebels in Syria. Assad better get his private jet fuelled up. 

https://x.com/ConflictDISP/status/1862541067641364752?t=aEMAL2YSIOeK13G0NEJ4cg&s=19

 

Russian forces have withdrawn from Aleppo and are now indiscriminately carpet bombing the areas that the rebels have taken.

[Cruyff]

On 25/11/2024 at 20:23, Jeff said:

UK and France should've had boots in the ground 2 years ago

https://x.com/CAFwithUkraine/status/1862175988500554149?t=tDRMNnAVkz381v_jpIserw&s=19

 

NATO specialists are dying in Ukraine mate. 

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

https://x.com/CAFwithUkraine/status/1862175988500554149?t=tDRMNnAVkz381v_jpIserw&s=19

 

NATO specialists are dying in Ukraine mate. 

 

Never knew Belgium was within Ukraine

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

https://x.com/ConflictDISP/status/1862541067641364752?t=aEMAL2YSIOeK13G0NEJ4cg&s=19

 

Russian forces have withdrawn from Aleppo and are now indiscriminately carpet bombing the areas that the rebels have taken.

 

If this is NATO backed then it won't be long before Hmeimim is hit

[Cruyff]

38 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Never knew Belgium was within Ukraine

NATO's Military hospital is in Belgium. 

[Mikey1874]

First time Zelensky has conceded scenario war is stopped without regaining all territory first. 

[Cade]

He's still aiming to regain ALL lost land, including Crimea.

Ceasefire first, then Ukraine joins NATO and becomes therefor inviolate THEN negotiations for the return of the illegally occupied territories.

A pipe dream, as Russia will never alter its constitution to allow the return of the captured lands, even though they don't have full military control over any of the 4 annexed oblasts.

 

 

[indianajones]

Cease fire. Concede the land. DMZ for however many kms along the entire border. Shite but its not going to stop if this is not the outcome. 

 

Ukraine then joins NATO. 

 

Stop the ****ing madness. At least for another 20-30 years anyway. 

[Mikey1874]

The Trump / Kellog position is no way can Ukraine join NATO. But also recognising the pain of probably Ukraine having to accept not taking back all the lands at a ceasefire. To as Zelensky says negotiate their return.

 

It looks like the basis for a deal but Russia currently wants to take a lot more land which it is currently slowly taking but could be a long time away from it's goals to fully take the regions it has defined as Russian.

 

Ukraine recognising the reality of Trump may be closer to accepting a ceasefire than Russia is.

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, indianajones said:

Cease fire. Concede the land. DMZ for however many kms along the entire border. Shite but its not going to stop if this is not the outcome. 

 

Ukraine then joins NATO. 

 

Stop the ****ing madness. At least for another 20-30 years anyway. 

 

I'll bet you wouldn't be saying that if Russia had taken over the Lothians. It's so much easier if it's someone else's land and lives that you're talking about.

[indianajones]

51 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I'll bet you wouldn't be saying that if Russia had taken over the Lothians. It's so much easier if it's someone else's land and lives that you're talking about.

 

Aye, but it isn't, so...

 

Also, if it were to stop the irresponsible escalation that could lead to the end of civilisation then lets be there.

 

Too many people are dying. 

[redjambo]

35 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Aye, but it isn't, so...

 

Also, if it were to stop the irresponsible escalation that could lead to the end of civilisation then lets be there.

 

Too many people are dying. 

 

Not going to happen. China have undoubtedly told Russia that any use of nuclear weapons, even tactical, would be a red line for it.

 

One of the key aims for we as humans is to try hard to learn from the mistakes of the past. Appeasement didn't work before Word War II, it won't work now.

 

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/neville-chamberlain

 

[Ally]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I'll bet you wouldn't be saying that if Russia had taken over the Lothians. It's so much easier if it's someone else's land and lives that you're talking about.

Wouldn't mind, TBF. As long as they made sure that the occupying force was something like this.

 

 

 

[redjambo]

11 minutes ago, Ally said:

Wouldn't mind, TBF. As long as they made sure that the occupying force was something like this.

 

 

 

 

The one second from the left would have your balls for mincemeat, I reckon.

[Ally]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The one second from the left would have your balls for mincemeat, I reckon.

She has those 'Come to window' eyes.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Ally said:

She has those 'Come to window' eyes.

 

[Cade]

What is with this "we have to let Russia have what it wants otherwise they'll escalate to nukes" attitude?

May we well sign over every eastern European nation that was part of the USSR right now if that's the level of resolve The West is going to have.

Jaysus feck. 

[westbow]

South Korea declares martial law. That is a hell of a step for a democracy. He is quoted as saying it is needed to - 

“eradicate pro-North Korean forces and protect the constitutional democratic order.”

Kim Jong Un and his sister getting a bit out of control I guess.

[Cade]

SK thing will be over in a few days, the President will be ousted by Parliament.

They've already held a vote to cancel the Martial Law, all 190 members of the 300-strong Parliament that were able to make it into work voted to cancel Martial Law.

 

The President has been at loggerheads with Parliament for a while, since he's a conservative and the Parliament is liberal.

He's also been ignoring calls for inquiries into various scandals surrounding his wife and family.

Dude's gone off the deep end.

Edited December 3 by Cade

[Jamboross]

The situation in Georgia is much more concerning than South Korea. 

 

The ruling party there, Georgian Dream, is financed by an oligarch who made his fortune in the Soviet Union. The party claims not to be close to the Kremlin but they have been increasingly taking an anti-Western stance and aligning themselves more with Russia. Previous elections have raised suspicions of electoral fraud but the one in October this year has been widely criticised by observers due to voter intimidation and various irregularities. Their new Prime Minister, who is a massive conspiracy nut, in the last week officially paused membership talks with the EU kicking off widespread protests across the country that are being violently countered by the police. 

 

The protests are being led by the current President who, when she was elected in 2018, was backed by Georgian Dream. Over the last few years she's been increasingly at loggerheads with the party, who have branded her a "traitor" and tried to impeach her, and has tried to veto several authoritarian/pro Russian bills. Since the election in October she has been trying unsuccessfully to get the result annulled in the courts. Her term as President is due to end in a couple of weeks but she is refusing to step down until fresh parliamentary elections are called; she will be the last President elected by popular vote as starting this year all future Presidents are to be elected by Electoral College in which Georgian Dream, unsurprisingly, have a majority of the votes.

 

It's an absolute mess and all feels very Euromaidan. 

 

Georgia, of course, had 20% of it's territory taken from it by Russia in 2008. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are currently "independent" nations occupied by Russia. 

Edited December 4 by Jamboross

[ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ]

On 30/11/2024 at 12:46, indianajones said:

Cease fire. Concede the land. DMZ for however many kms along the entire border. Shite but its not going to stop if this is not the outcome. 

 

Ukraine then joins NATO. 

 

Stop the ****ing madness. At least for another 20-30 years anyway. 

 

That land is inhabited by people, 80% of whom would prefer to stay part of Ukraine last I read.

 

It's so grim, I find it hard to be involved in this or the Israel thread, the human toll is awful to think about. Every single person involved has a set of worried family and friends, every single death is a tragedy for so many people.

[Lone Striker]

20 hours ago, ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ said:

 

That land is inhabited by people, 80% of whom would prefer to stay part of Ukraine last I read.

 

It's so grim, I find it hard to be involved in this or the Israel thread, the human toll is awful to think about. Every single person involved has a set of worried family and friends, every single death is a tragedy for so many people.

👍 Its an unimaginable catastrophe from a humanity point of view.    Even the lucky ones who were able to escape & settle in other countries (including the UK) must have tears in  their eyes when they watch the TV news coverage of the destruction back home.

 

 

[Lone Striker]

Meanwhile Putin is sabre-rattling in the eastern Med. Just tested a hypersonic nuke - not clear where it came down. Possibly warning the West not to get involved in the anti-Assad rebellion in Syria.

 

 

Russia fires hypersonic missile in Mediterranean Sea

Daniel Hardaker

Tue 3 December 2024 at 9:38 pm GMT·2-min read

 

A Russian navy frigate fires a Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile in the eastern Mediterranean - Russian Defence Ministry

 

This embedded content is not available in your region.

Russian forces test fired an advanced nuclear-capable hypersonic cruise missile during navy and air force drills in the eastern Mediterranean Sea on Tuesday.

Photographs released by the Russian defence ministry show a Zircon launching from the decks of the Admiral Gorshkov, a frigate commissioned in 2018 and designed to attack land, surface and underwater targets.

“On Dec 3, during an exercise to test the combined activities of Russian navy and air force troop groups, precision sea-based missiles were launched in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea,” Russia’s defence ministry said in a statement.

 

The Kremlin claims that the Zirkon missile has a top speed of Mach 9 (6,000mph), which analysts have said would make it essentially invulnerable to even the best Western missile defence systems.

According to Russian state media, Putin has said the weapon has “no analogues in any country in the world”.

 

A Russian navy frigate fires a Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile in the eastern Mediterranean - Russian Defence Ministry

 

Russia was carrying out naval drills in the Mediterranean alongside launching a hypersonic missile - Russian Defense Ministry Press Service photo via AP

Militaries across the world are scrambling to field hypersonic cruise missiles, as their extreme speed and manoeuvrability makes them difficult to intercept.

Experts believe that surface ships, particularly aircraft carriers, could be extremely vulnerable to hypersonic cruise missiles.

It is understood that Russia fired the Zirkon missile, which has a range of some 600 miles, at the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv in February of this year.

The naval drills come as Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, Russia’s biggest ally in the region, is facing the greatest challenge to his rule in years after rebel fighters captured the city of Aleppo in a shock offensive that began last week.

Russia has had a significant military presence in Syria for a decade, including a naval base near the Mediterranean port city of Tartus.

Naval analyst H I Sutton said that Russia’s Tartus naval base was now under threat from rebel attack as the fast-moving front line closed in.

“The dramatic shift in the front lines in Syria now puts the base at risk. There are indications that Russia may be evacuating its naval vessels,” he said.

The Tartus base is important for Russia because it is its navy’s only Mediterranean “replenishment and repair point”. It has also been used as the dropping-off point for Russian special forces to enter the Syrian conflict.

Russia’s defence ministry said 10 ships and 24 planes had taken part in Tuesday’s drills, adding that its forces had also fired Onyx and Kalibr cruise missiles.

The two weapons are older than the Zircon missile but can be fitted with nuclear warheads and travel at speeds of Mach 2.9 and Mach 3 respectively.

 

 

[Cade]

Whilst Putin is wasting all of his experimental missiles trying to act hard, his special forces in Syria are being solidly beaten by tag-tag militia in pick up trucks

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Meanwhile Putin is sabre-rattling in the eastern Med. Just tested a hypersonic nuke - not clear where it came down. Possibly warning the West not to get involved in the anti-Assad rebellion in Syria.

 

 

Russia fires hypersonic missile in Mediterranean Sea

Daniel Hardaker

Tue 3 December 2024 at 9:38 pm GMT·2-min read

 

 

A Russian navy frigate fires a Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile in the eastern Mediterranean - Russian Defence Ministry

 

This embedded content is not available in your region.

Russian forces test fired an advanced nuclear-capable hypersonic cruise missile during navy and air force drills in the eastern Mediterranean Sea on Tuesday.

Photographs released by the Russian defence ministry show a Zircon launching from the decks of the Admiral Gorshkov, a frigate commissioned in 2018 and designed to attack land, surface and underwater targets.

“On Dec 3, during an exercise to test the combined activities of Russian navy and air force troop groups, precision sea-based missiles were launched in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea,” Russia’s defence ministry said in a statement.

 

The Kremlin claims that the Zirkon missile has a top speed of Mach 9 (6,000mph), which analysts have said would make it essentially invulnerable to even the best Western missile defence systems.

According to Russian state media, Putin has said the weapon has “no analogues in any country in the world”.

 

A Russian navy frigate fires a Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile in the eastern Mediterranean - Russian Defence Ministry

 

Russia was carrying out naval drills in the Mediterranean alongside launching a hypersonic missile - Russian Defense Ministry Press Service photo via AP

Militaries across the world are scrambling to field hypersonic cruise missiles, as their extreme speed and manoeuvrability makes them difficult to intercept.

Experts believe that surface ships, particularly aircraft carriers, could be extremely vulnerable to hypersonic cruise missiles.

It is understood that Russia fired the Zirkon missile, which has a range of some 600 miles, at the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv in February of this year.

The naval drills come as Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, Russia’s biggest ally in the region, is facing the greatest challenge to his rule in years after rebel fighters captured the city of Aleppo in a shock offensive that began last week.

Russia has had a significant military presence in Syria for a decade, including a naval base near the Mediterranean port city of Tartus.

Naval analyst H I Sutton said that Russia’s Tartus naval base was now under threat from rebel attack as the fast-moving front line closed in.

“The dramatic shift in the front lines in Syria now puts the base at risk. There are indications that Russia may be evacuating its naval vessels,” he said.

The Tartus base is important for Russia because it is its navy’s only Mediterranean “replenishment and repair point”. It has also been used as the dropping-off point for Russian special forces to enter the Syrian conflict.

Russia’s defence ministry said 10 ships and 24 planes had taken part in Tuesday’s drills, adding that its forces had also fired Onyx and Kalibr cruise missiles.

The two weapons are older than the Zircon missile but can be fitted with nuclear warheads and travel at speeds of Mach 2.9 and Mach 3 respectively.

 

 

 

The west doesn't need involved. Russia have shat themselves from Turkey multiple times recently (Syria pt1 and Azerbaijan Armenia conflict) and guess who's funding the rebels in Syria... 

 

Erdogan is the pricks prick but fair play to him for standing up to Putin

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

The west doesn't need involved. Russia have shat themselves from Turkey multiple times recently (Syria pt1 and Azerbaijan Armenia conflict) and guess who's funding the rebels in Syria... 

 

Erdogan is the pricks prick but fair play to him for standing up to Putin

America has  nearly always been involved (either  covertly or via Israel )  in ME wars & rebellions, although that  may change after Jan 6th  when Putin's buddy takes over. 

 

 

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

America has  nearly always been involved (either  covertly or via Israel )  in ME wars & rebellions, although that  may change after Jan 6th  when Putin's buddy takes over. 

 

 

Definitely. Libya arrested an ISIS commander years ago that turned out to be a Mossad agent. Most, if not all of these groups are likely created and funded by the US/CIA,. All facilitated by Israel & Turkey in the region. 

 

I think Trump will read off the script handed to him by the "officials". 

[Cade]

Romania's Supreme Court has annulled the results of the nation's recent Presidential runoff, citing Russian interference after a pro-Russian far-right candidate emerged with the most votes after round 1 of voting.

 

[Mikey1874]

Syria still under attack. 

 

Curious. Russia getting another bloody nose.

[Cade]

Aleppo taken a few days ago, Hama taken today, Homs is the next big target down the road to Damascus.

Government troops nowhere to be seen and piles of their gear has been taken captive, the Russians in Syria are pulling back as fast as they can go, evacuating out all their helicopters and ships and resorting to token airstrikes to delay the rebels.
Meanwhile, in the east, Deir-ez-Zor has been taken by the USA-backed rebel faction.

Putin has resorted to test firing one missile in the Mediterranean sea in a petulant show of being the hard man.

 

Up in Kursk the Russians and North Koreans are having a very bad time of it.

They've almost totally run out of armoured units and are performing infantry attacks on foot into the teeth of Ukrainian minefields, machine guns and drones.

The North Koreans are also being so good as to form large camps and training bases out in the open which are easy to find and are being hit hard by the Ukrainian air force using J-dam glide bombs.

 

Reports of mass desertions in the east and south east are yet to be confirmed but the pace of the Russian advance has certainly slowed in recent days.

 

Putin has relaxed the rules on gas/oil buyers using Rubles. He's also launching a digital Ruble, rolling out across the Russian Federation from early next year.

 

January cannot come quick enough for Putin.

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, Cade said:

Aleppo taken a few days ago, Hama taken today, Homs is the next big target down the road to Damascus.

Government troops nowhere to be seen and piles of their gear has been taken captive, the Russians in Syria are pulling back as fast as they can go, evacuating out all their helicopters and ships and resorting to token airstrikes to delay the rebels.
Meanwhile, in the east, Deir-ez-Zor has been taken by the USA-backed rebel faction.

Putin has resorted to test firing one missile in the Mediterranean sea in a petulant show of being the hard man.

 

Up in Kursk the Russians and North Koreans are having a very bad time of it.

They've almost totally run out of armoured units and are performing infantry attacks on foot into the teeth of Ukrainian minefields, machine guns and drones.

The North Koreans are also being so good as to form large camps and training bases out in the open which are easy to find and are being hit hard by the Ukrainian air force using J-dam glide bombs.

 

Reports of mass desertions in the east and south east are yet to be confirmed but the pace of the Russian advance has certainly slowed in recent days.

 

Putin has relaxed the rules on gas/oil buyers using Rubles. He's also launching a digital Ruble, rolling out across the Russian Federation from early next year.

 

January cannot come quick enough for Putin.

 

Would've thought Hezbollah would've been moved to help Al-Assad but haven't seen any mention yet.

[Cade]

Militia are claiming to be in the outskirt of Damascus already, as well as in Homs.

Total blitzkrieg.
Russians nowhere to be seen. Their equipment has been spotted heading for the ports, including S-400 air defence systems. Looks like they're simply leaving.

[Victorian]

Wouldn't mind seeing Assad get the full Gaddafi.  😛

 

His missus holds,  or held,  a British passport.   The last government might have spirited them in for a donation.