What recession?

[I P Knightley]

Coming in to work this morning, I passed 2 O2 shops. Both had massive queues outside them - the first about 75 folk, the second nearer to 100. This at about 8:15-8:30.

 

My guess is that there's a new iPhone out or something and all these bammers are waiting to part with their hard earned cash for an entirely unnecessary (though no doubt technically advanced) gizmo.

 

We can't be all that hard up, can we?

[Cobblers]

Despite the best efforts of the members of the Shed, On Trade Beer sales in the UK this year are down by about 13% on last year. Looks like a recession coming to me.

[coppercrutch]

Coming in to work this morning, I passed 2 O2 shops. Both had massive queues outside them - the first about 75 folk, the second nearer to 100. This at about 8:15-8:30.

 

My guess is that there's a new iPhone out or something and all these bammers are waiting to part with their hard earned cash for an entirely unnecessary (though no doubt technically advanced) gizmo.

 

We can't be all that hard up, can we?

 

Most people in this country are incredibly hard up. They just don't know it yet.

 

A stonking mortgage, expensive holidays, new IPhones and thousands on your credit cards you can cope with, when you have a job.

 

Very different when the **** hits the fan. The savings rates in this country are tiny. The debt mountain is huge.

 

How many people do you reckon will be in serious doo-doo if they lose thier job, or even go just a few months without work ?

 

Who knows. Maybe 2 million, 5 million. Scary.

[I P Knightley]

Most people in this country are incredibly hard up. They just don't know it yet.

 

A stonking mortgage, expensive holidays, new IPhones and thousands on your credit cards you can cope with, when you have a job.

 

Very different when the **** hits the fan. The savings rates in this country are tiny. The debt mountain is huge.

 

How many people do you reckon will be in serious doo-doo if they lose thier job, or even go just a few months without work ?

 

Who knows. Maybe 2 million, 5 million. Scary.

 

Don't worry, mate. My post was delivered with a heavy dollop of sarcasm - it's just that I refuse to use a 'smiley' to indicate it.

 

The point is that there's news all around of impending doom & gloom (you're not the only one bringing the news to us CC ) yet these muppets consider it essential to queue for an effing telephone, ffs. Most of them would have been listening to their iPods while in the queue and had their perfectly operative phones in their pockets - what's so essential about the iPhone that they'll tie themselves into one at this point?

[200milesfromgorgie]

im skint.

[coppercrutch]

Don't worry, mate. My post was delivered with a heavy dollop of sarcasm - it's just that I refuse to use a 'smiley' to indicate it.

 

The point is that there's news all around of impending doom & gloom (you're not the only one bringing the news to us CC ) yet these muppets consider it essential to queue for an effing telephone, ffs. Most of them would have been listening to their iPods while in the queue and had their perfectly operative phones in their pockets - what's so essential about the iPhone that they'll tie themselves into one at this point?

 

Doh !! My sarcasm radar must have been switched off !!

 

I totally agree with what you say. It is mental. We live in a countyr where everyone wants everything now. So fecking greedy and lazy.

 

Now I can be greedy and lazy as well but I usually like to think about what I am spending my money on (Unless it is current investments but that is another story..).

 

I am really pretty scared to think how many people in this country could be made bankrupt withiin the next few years. Ultimately most of their debts will be written off and end up coming from those of us who have a bit of sense.

 

Nice.

[jamboinglasgow]

THis is what annoys me with Apple, they make small but significant changes to their products every six months so that the previous one seems rubbish compared to the new one. Rather than say spend a year or two making huge changes.

 

I got a video Ipod last summer, really pleased with it then 3 months later Apple comeout with the even better Ipod that is cheaper and has more memory. Also if I was cycnical I would say it was a delibarte descision not to put 3G on the first generation of Iphone as they could release a few months later after all the people went made and bought the 1st Iphone one with 3G so these same people pay the huge amount for a slightly better Iphone.

 

Apple, they are as bad as Microsoft.

[coppercrutch]

THis is what annoys me with Apple, they make small but significant changes to their products every six months so that the previous one seems rubbish compared to the new one. Rather than say spend a year or two making huge changes.

 

I got a video Ipod last summer, really pleased with it then 3 months later Apple comeout with the even better Ipod that is cheaper and has more memory. Also if I was cycnical I would say it was a delibarte descision not to put 3G on the first generation of Iphone as they could release a few months later after all the people went made and bought the 1st Iphone one with 3G so these same people pay the huge amount for a slightly better Iphone.

 

Apple, they are as bad as Microsoft.

 

Cunning plan to be fair. Nasty but cunning.

 

If they released everything that had 'ready to go' their profits would collapse. I reckon they just go for a nice slow constant drip feed of 'new' technology.

[I P Knightley]

THis is what annoys me with Apple, they make small but significant changes to their products every six months so that the previous one seems rubbish compared to the new one. Rather than say spend a year or two making huge changes.

 

I got a video Ipod last summer, really pleased with it then 3 months later Apple comeout with the even better Ipod that is cheaper and has more memory. Also if I was cycnical I would say it was a delibarte descision not to put 3G on the first generation of Iphone as they could release a few months later after all the people went made and bought the 1st Iphone one with 3G so these same people pay the huge amount for a slightly better Iphone.

 

Apple, they are as bad as Microsoft.

 

How dreadfully consumerist

 

You were happy with the iPod when you bought it?

 

It still does all the stuff that you bought it to do?

 

Then you don't need another one. Yes, it might be nice to have something fancier but, honestly, it's not going to improve your life or, more importantly, get you your hole with any increased frequency.

 

I marvel at the progress in technology but the marketing and business strategy is even more impressive - and all done by geeks (which makes it doubly impressive!)

[skotskosparta]

How dreadfully consumerist

 

You were happy with the iPod when you bought it?

 

It still does all the stuff that you bought it to do?

 

Then you don't need another one. Yes, it might be nice to have something fancier but, honestly, it's not going to improve your life or, more importantly, get you your hole with any increased frequency.

 

I marvel at the progress in technology but the marketing and business strategy is even more impressive - and all done by geeks (which makes it doubly impressive!)

Correct, once these pack in i'll get the new upgraded versions!!

 

[Doyle]

Then you don't it's not going to improve your life or, more importantly, get you your hole

 

 

I concur!!! Well said!!

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

Also if I was cycnical I would say it was a delibarte descision not to put 3G on the first generation of Iphone as they could release a few months later after all the people went made and bought the 1st Iphone one with 3G so these same people pay the huge amount for a slightly better Iphone.

 

Apple, they are as bad as Microsoft.

 

Actually if you had an old iphone you can trade up for free I'm pretty sure

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

For all those skint people.

 

Go and get a better paid job.

 

Either train in your work for a better job or perhaps enrol in some course to better yourself. Stop bumping your gums about it and get off your a**e and do something about it.

[200milesfromgorgie]

For all those skint people.

 

Go and get a better paid job.

 

Either train in your work for a better job or perhaps enrol in some course to better yourself. Stop bumping your gums about it and get off your a**e and do something about it.

 

I love my job. I used to manage fine but cost of living has made me start to worry. Whats you point? You're in a better pbaid job therefore you are better than other people? low income means you're lazy?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I love my job. I used to manage fine but cost of living has made me start to worry. Whats you point? You're in a better pbaid job therefore you are better than other people? low income means you're lazy?

 

Why are your pay awards not above inflation? The cost of living is not rising at such a pace that a decent pay rise once a year cant at least match it.

 

Where did i post im better than anyone?

 

My point was, if people are not earning enough only one person can do anything about that. them!

[200milesfromgorgie]

Why are your pay awards not above inflation? The cost of living is not rising at such a pace that a decent pay rise once a year cant at least match it.

 

Where did i post im better than anyone?

 

My point was, if people are not earning enough only one person can do anything about that. them!

 

You didn't i was asking if that was your point.

[cotter]

Why are your pay awards not above inflation? The cost of living is not rising at such a pace that a decent pay rise once a year cant at least match it.

 

 

What about those of us that work for lovely American companies that dont give yearly pay rises?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

You didn't i was asking if that was your point.

 

Not at all, money does not define the man.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

What about those of us that work for lovely American companies that dont give yearly pay rises?

 

I assume there is some structure in place for your salary to be increased? At least i hope so. If not, know on your gaffers door.

 

Tell him i said your doing a great job!

[200milesfromgorgie]

Not at all, money does not define the man.

 

Thank feck

[coppercrutch]

Why are your pay awards not above inflation? The cost of living is not rising at such a pace that a decent pay rise once a year cant at least match it.

 

Where did i post im better than anyone?

 

My point was, if people are not earning enough only one person can do anything about that. them!

 

Indeed. But to be fair pretty much most people in this World get **** on from above !! Government, taxes, huge corporations. Their job is to keep the masses in a state where they are easy to control.

 

By the look of it these days it is mainly through debt and fear.

 

I do agree that it is up to the individual to do something about it rather than just moaning. In the end though it is all stacked against the little guy !!

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Indeed. But to be fair pretty much most people in this World get **** on from above !! Government, taxes, huge corporations. Their job is to keep the masses in a state where they are easy to control.

 

By the look of it these days it is mainly through debt and fear.

 

I do agree that it is up to the individual to do something about it rather than just moaning. In the end though it is all stacked against the little guy !!

 

Then dont be scared, take the plunge, get out there and do things. Everyone is in the same boat, some people choose to go for it and are rewarded, too many people sit on their ass and wait for things to be handed to them.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Thank feck

 

God, im not that horrible

[deesidejambo]

Has anybody blamed this on George Bush yet?

[I P Knightley]

Correct, once these pack in i'll get the new upgraded versions!!

 

 

Wah-hah-hah-ha-clunk!

 

May I add "within reason" somewhere in my last post??

[coppercrutch]

Then dont be scared, take the plunge, get out there and do things. Everyone is in the same boat, some people choose to go for it and are rewarded, too many people sit on their ass and wait for things to be handed to them.

 

Indeed. Too many in this country for my liking!!

 

That is one of the main reasons I dont think we can ever be a success as an independent country. Far too many **** bags here to cope with. As part of a larger nation we can handle it. But on our own we would be ****ed. IMO.

[jambos are go!]

People spent much less of their salaries on food and drink than they did 15 -20 years ago. Thats why inflation is still only 3-4% compared to 15 % in the last downturn. Read in the paper yesterday that running a car is still 20% cheaper in real terms than it was 20 years ago despite the petrol hike.

 

Cut a holiday and most folk can cope easily. And up the minimum wage and benefits for the worst off.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Indeed. Too many in this country for my liking!!

 

That is one of the main reasons I dont think we can ever be a success as an independent country. Far too many **** bags here to cope with. As part of a larger nation we can handle it. But on our own we would be ****ed. IMO.

 

Alas I fear you are right, far too many moaners that never get off their crisp covered couch unless to slope off to claim more money from the state. These vermin and the ?I want more money? but am not prepared to better myself to get it will hold us and the rest of the nation back.

 

As you say, as part of a larger collective the whole can cope with this better but, on our own?

[Coco]

Has anybody blamed this on George Bush yet?

 

Gordon Brown is to blame for the coming slump in the UK economy.

[skotskosparta]

Gordon Brown is to blame for the coming slump in the UK economy.

 

Off course he is!!

[scott_jambo]

Has anybody blamed this on George Bush yet?

 

If there is a recession, Bush will take some of the blame, but the real responsibility lies with the banks jumping on the bandwagon and an over reliance on the dollar/becoming too greedy with it.

 

To think people would blame the US government when they are the economic global hegemony in International Affairs!

 

Silly people eh! Im with you, its all Browns fault.

[scott_jambo]

Indeed. Too many in this country for my liking!!

 

That is one of the main reasons I dont think we can ever be a success as an independent country. Far too many **** bags here to cope with. As part of a larger nation we can handle it. But on our own we would be ****ed. IMO.

 

You still live with your parents. i hope you pay them digs.

[Coco]

Off course he is!!

 

Good to see that more people are waking up to this FACT.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Bouught a mobile in 98 broke it(dropped it often)after 6months

never renewed,the darn thing was annoying I like been out of contact.

 

As for a recession its just a negative word about the economys growth.

 

It is true though that consumerism has replaced common sense in a lot of

people and they are the ones that are gonna hurt in the next few years

I got very little sympathy though for some.

People who got a mortgate 4 to 6 times thier income when house prices

were always going to crash are pure mad.

Seen some people moaning the recession will hurt thier holiday plans etc,well big dodos.

 

Only people to feel sorry for are those who will lose jobs.

How people like the Shell Drivers can strike for 36000 is beyond me when we have others on less than 12000 a year but still working full time.

 

Hate sounding crazy but this recession may be the cure this country needs,

less buying big cars

sending less on a night out

actually understanding the value of an earn POUND.

[coppercrutch]

If there is a recession, Bush will take some of the blame, but the real responsibility lies with the banks jumping on the bandwagon and an over reliance on the dollar/becoming too greedy with it.

 

To think people would blame the US government when they are the economic global hegemony in International Affairs!

 

Silly people eh! Im with you, its all Browns fault.

 

It is the fault of the banks for being too greedy.

It is the fault of individuals for being too greedy.

It is the fault of Brown/BoE and their cronies for encouraging people to get into as much debt as possible - by keeping interest rates artifically low for too long.

 

You still live with your parents. i hope you pay them digs.

 

Of course I do !! I get a good deal too.

[Peebo]

As for a recession its just a negative word about the economys growth.

 

Or rather, "As for recession, it's just a word for negative economic growth"....

[coppercrutch]

Bouught a mobile in 98 broke it(dropped it often)after 6months

never renewed,the darn thing was annoying I like been out of contact.

 

As for a recession its just a negative word about the economys growth.

 

It is true though that consumerism has replaced common sense in a lot of

people and they are the ones that are gonna hurt in the next few years

I got very little sympathy though for some.

People who got a mortgate 4 to 6 times thier income when house prices

were always going to crash are pure mad.

Seen some people moaning the recession will hurt thier holiday plans etc,well big dodos.

 

Only people to feel sorry for are those who will lose jobs.

How people like the Shell Drivers can strike for 36000 is beyond me when we have others on less than 12000 a year but still working full time.

 

Hate sounding crazy but this recession may be the cure this country needs,

less buying big cars

sending less on a night out

actually understanding the value of an earn POUND.

 

Hearing you.

[scott_jambo]

It is the fault of the banks for being too greedy.

It is the fault of individuals for being too greedy.

It is the fault of Brown/BoE and their cronies for encouraging people to get into as much debt as possible - by keeping interest rates artifically low for too long.

 

 

 

Of course I do !! I get a good deal too.

 

Do you pay council tax?

[scott_jambo]

It is the fault of the banks for being too greedy.

It is the fault of individuals for being too greedy.

It is the fault of Brown/BoE and their cronies for encouraging people to get into as much debt as possible - by keeping interest rates artifically low for too long.

 

 

 

Of course I do !! I get a good deal too.

 

Can you explain this, since you seem in the know?

 

Genuinely interested.

[deesidejambo]

Its funny that a few years ago when all was going well, The Gov't were quick to claim it was because of their "Prudence" in managing the economy, however, now that its not going well, the Global economy gets the blame.

 

Its all bolx - the global economy have dictated both the boom and the forthcoming bust, so neither is directly Browns "fault", but his mistake was claiming credit for the good times but not claiming accountability for the bad (well it was Blair and Campbell doing the bragging).

[Coco]

Its funny that a few years ago when all was going well, The Gov't were quick to claim it was because of their "Prudence" in managing the economy, however, now that its not going well, the Global economy gets the blame.

 

Its all bolx - the global economy have dictated both the boom and the forthcoming bust, so neither is directly Browns "fault", but his mistake was claiming credit for the good times but not claiming accountability for the bad (well it was Blair and Campbell doing the bragging).

 

We are not going to have a downturn in my opinion but a massive slump. That is due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy.

[deesidejambo]

We are not going to have a downturn in my opinion but a massive slump. That is due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy.

 

I dont deny that Brown has been a discgrace - in particular the stealth taxes like the raid on Pension funds and the Road Tax fiasco. I believe he is a total lightweight.

 

However, oil prices are defo dictated by external factors so he cant help that, but he can take advantage of it by reducing the duty on petrol as the Treasury are huge beneficiaries of the high oil price.

[coppercrutch]

Can you explain this, since you seem in the know?

 

Genuinely interested.

 

I dont pay council tax but my parents do !! And I will be paying it soon anyway. Pay enough in income tax as it is.

 

As for your question it is a long story, basics below.

 

Banks

 

Decided to make 'easy money' by packaging up debt and selling it all on for a small profit. The next people did the same and so on. Each person gets a piece of the pie and the individual with the original debt pays for it all in interest. (Google CDO's , MBS's etc.. for details)

 

Great when these individuals pay. Not so great when they don't. Banks recycled this debt backed 'easy money' round and around as the good times rolled. Then the hard times came. People stopped paying their debts off. This debt backed 'easy money' became worthless as you cannot differentiate how much 'dodgy debt' is mixed in there with the 'good stuff' that people are still paying. Hence 'sub prime' = debt that should never really have been allowed.

 

We have been hearing for years about bank's massive profits, huge corporate gains etc... Much of this has come on the back of this 'easy money'. Easy money that has now become almost worthless.

 

Individuals

 

People saw the good times. They saw their neighbours with nice new cars and shiny new 'apartments'. They wanted a piece of the pie. They knew they couldn't afford this on their own. However - lo and behold - the banks were now giving out easy credit like it was confetti !! (This was for the reasons stated above under Banks)

 

So people borrowed more, and more, and more. They JUST managed to keep it all ticking along. As long as they could have what they wanted NOW and didn't have to save up for it they were happy. They didn't really think of the future. That has now caught up with them. House prices went insane based on this free and easy money. Only thing is people are now seeing these things can go 2 ways.

 

Houses as 'cash machines' have now become 'black holes'. Due to the losses mentioned above for the Banks they have now really cut back on who they will lend to. They are actually only really getting back to sensible lending that did them fine up until about 2003. This was when they decided to change all their rules to get a piece of this debt backed 'easy money'. You can see how it all fits together.

 

BoE/Brown

 

They should have seen what was coming. They could have raised interest rates/introduced taxes on second homes etc.. to hold back the obvious bubble that was forming. Instead they decided "What was the point in stopping the good times, let them roll !! ".

 

In the short term that is fine. It maked Brown look like he was some sort of economic genius. In the long term it was a disaster. Much of the 'good times' was simply being built on debt.

 

Government coffers are now in a complete state. During the good times we should have been saving up to cover us through the bad. Instead the opposite has happened due to Brown and co.

 

So even if the Governement now want to cut taxes to ease us through this they cannot.

 

Complete mess from head to toe.

[scott_jambo]

I dont pay council tax but my parents do !! And I will be paying it soon anyway. Pay enough in income tax as it is.

 

As for your question it is a long story, basics below.

 

Banks

 

Decided to make 'easy money' by packaging up debt and selling it all on for a small profit. The next people did the same and so on. Each person gets a piece of the pie and the individual with the original debt pays for it all in interest. (Google CDO's , MBS's etc.. for details)

 

Great when these individuals pay. Not so great when they don't. Banks recycled this debt backed 'easy money' round and around as the good times rolled. Then the hard times came. People stopped paying their debts off. This debt backed 'easy money' became worthless as you cannot differentiate how much 'dodgy debt' is mixed in there with the 'good stuff' that people are still paying. Hence 'sub prime' = debt that should never really have been allowed.

 

We have been hearing for years about bank's massive profits, huge corporate gains etc... Much of this has come on the back of this 'easy money'. Easy money that has now become almost worthless.

 

Individuals

 

People saw the good times. They saw their neighbours with nice new cars and shiny new 'apartments'. They wanted a piece of the pie. They knew they couldn't afford this on their own. However - lo and behold - the banks were now giving out easy credit like it was confetti !! (This was for the reasons stated above under Banks)

 

So people borrowed more, and more, and more. They JUST managed to keep it all ticking along. As long as they could have what they wanted NOW and didn't have to save up for it they were happy. They didn't really think of the future. That has now caught up with them. House prices went insane based on this free and easy money. Only thing is people are now seeing these things can go 2 ways.

 

Houses as 'cash machines' have now become 'black holes'. Due to the losses mentioned above for the Banks they have now really cut back on who they will lend to. They are actually only really getting back to sensible lending that did them fine up until about 2003. This was when they decided to change all their rules to get a piece of this debt backed 'easy money'. You can see how it all fits together.

 

BoE/Brown

 

They should have seen what was coming. They could have raised interest rates/introduced taxes on second homes etc.. to hold back the obvious bubble that was forming. Instead they decided "What was the point in stopping the good times, let them roll !! ".

 

In the short term that is fine. It maked Brown look like he was some sort of economic genius. In the long term it was a disaster. Much of the 'good times' was simply being built on debt.

 

Government coffers are now in a complete state. During the good times we should have been saving up to cover us through the bad. Instead the opposite has happened due to Brown and co.

 

So even if the Governement now want to cut taxes to ease us through this they cannot.

 

Complete mess from head to toe.

 

Havent read this yet, will read this when i get home from work though. Appreciate your time.