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VAR will slow down scottish football & Fans wont like it


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Francis Albert

VAR destroys the fundamental principle that football is the same at all levels. It confirms it is primarily a business not a sport. As if we didn't already know that.

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7 hours ago, William H. Bonney said:

Don’t they need big screens at the stadiums? Not sure where we’d put one at tynecastle? 

I don't know **** all about logistics of the electrics or health and safety, but reckon high on the side walls of a couple of stands or on the corner pylons underneath the floodlights would suffice?

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Russ1977

If it leads to more correct decisions then I’m all for it. Only 2 losers in Scottish football in that respect. 

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12 minutes ago, wallace_mercer said:

It absolutely must happen.

Why?

There's just as much controversy with it, so what's the point in the expense?

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BackOfTheNet

People won’t stop celebrating goals, they’ll just celebrate them like they do when they’re given offside and we don’t realise until the celebrating player has stopped in his tracks.

 

There is an argument however that VAR will slow down play a bit. And there’s some merit in this in that it’s dependent on the officials running it. England have only now seemed to have gotten on top of things speed wise, but they had their teething problems. France and Germany (especially) are pretty good when it comes to speed, and we saw in the Euros it was rare if a decision took excessive time. Other countries (Italy being one) do seem to take their time for some reason. So the time issue will be a thing in the beginning due to teething issues, and quite frankly our officials are part time staff who are generally incompetent, so only goes to stand they’ll be incompetent at this too and will have big delays.

 

That being said, in the interest of fairness I’m all for it being introduced. Whenever it goes to VAR in the early stages I recommend heading to the kiosk for a pie.

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1971fozzy
11 hours ago, Locky said:

Never really quite got the debate about killing celebrations. I've been down to a few games in the PL since VAR came in and when that ball goes in the net, the fans still celebrate as normal. There might be a delay and a bit of confusion when the announcement comes over that there's an ongoing check but once the call comes over that it stands you get to do it all over again.

 

Very similar scenario to linesmen flagging for offside. We've all done it, started wildly celebrating a goal only to find out 10-15 seconds later when everyone stops that its offside. You don't let it ruin your moment though. Been the odd time where I've been convinced it was off so do sort of look at the linesman for the flag while I celebrate, but in the moment in a big match, I'm not giving a ****.


well put 👍👍

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Led Tasso

I haven't watched much football with VAR but "instant replay review" as it's called here is already in most major sports in the US. It's taken a lot of adjusting over the years to keep it from disrupting the flow of the game but they've sped it up considerably since its introduction and in most cases it's a good thing.

 

As to killing goal celebrations, it's only in the controversial ones do you ever worry about it. I just happened to have watched the two goals from the Ross County game and in neither one would anyone have hesitated celebrating the goal because there was no question hanging in the air.

 

Yes, having the proceedings interrupted is awkward, but the reward is that you have fewer games spoiled by a bitter taste in your mouth, like the Celtic league match at Parkhead, where you know for certain the ref got it wrong and it's cost you points.

 

The SPFL will go to it sooner or later, of that I feel almost certain.

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1971fozzy
9 hours ago, William H. Bonney said:

Don’t they need big screens at the stadiums? Not sure where we’d put one at tynecastle? 


no idea but at the recent shareholders meal Ann Budge said they were imminent 

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ri Alban

If we have it, we can't have some games with it and some without it. That's unfair. 

 

 

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SpruceBringsteen

I have magic beans to sell those who think this will somehow hinder Rangers/Celtic.

 

Brines literally watched Zaliukas being headbutted by Lee Miller and said he was correct to send Marius off. It's a cabal, stop giving your minds a treat.

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Seymour M Hersh
13 hours ago, McCrae said:


should be clear daylight between a player for offside.

 

How much clear daylight? 1 inch? 1 foot? They've made offsides a complete cluster****. 

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the general

I always look at linesman to see if he has flagged for offside before celebrating

With VAR you cannot and half the time you don't know why the check is happening

Newcastle game yesterday took ages to give the goal. 

 

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Regardless of VAR, for me the biggest priority should be changing the law on penalties to stop so many soft penalties being given - meaning the ones where the attacking player essentially 'manufactures' the foul by making contact with the defending player's leg. I don't think any football fan wants to see games being decided by soft penalties yet this has gone on for years. A penalty should never give the attacking team an advantage that is disproportionate to the disadvantage caused by the alleged foul.  

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the old there was contact ,player should have gone to ground chestnut.  players should only go to ground if they are forced to by the impact of a challenge. going to ground under any other circumstances is simulation. 

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1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

How much clear daylight? 1 inch? 1 foot? They've made offsides a complete cluster****. 

This is where I don’t have an issue with it being mm’s. Moving away from a system where you can be offside despite the fact the majority of your body is onside is the way ahead.

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Jamhammer
20 hours ago, cheetah said:

Armchair fans love it, fans in the ground hate it.

Pretty much sums it up. In England it’s f’n baffling at times 

You see it being used and can clearly see a penalty or a red card and the VAR ref STILL doesn’t give it.

I doubt if it’ll make as much difference here as it’ll be ex Scots refs doing it and they’ll STILL crap it when it comes to penalising either of the OF

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss 

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Do The Dance
12 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

EPL made them full time and give loads.

 

You still have the same refs making the same mistakes, just on a lot higher pay.

The fact that Mike Riley is head of referees backs my case, he is worst referee I have seen with the exception of Dougie McDonald.

 

I am all for VAR, but again EPL are hamming it with inconsistencies week to week. That is fault with the referees.

 

 

But yeah, as you say, VAR run by the same referees.Then just ends up slowing the game down with the same inconsistency.

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Der Kaiser

You shouldn't feel nervous of a quality control stage added to the sport. Unless you're a cheat.....or a diver......or a biased official....

 

The Glasgow area will be the epicentre of an itchy bum epidemic I imagine.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
11 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

VAR destroys the fundamental principle that football is the same at all levels. It confirms it is primarily a business not a sport. As if we didn't already know that.

This.

 

Say no to VAR.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
3 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

I have magic beans to sell those who think this will somehow hinder Rangers/Celtic.

 

Brines literally watched Zaliukas being headbutted by Lee Miller and said he was correct to send Marius off. It's a cabal, stop giving your minds a treat.

And this as well.

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Francis Albert
22 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

You shouldn't feel nervous of a quality control stage added to the sport. Unless you're a cheat.....or a diver......or a biased official....

 

The Glasgow area will be the epicentre of an itchy bum epidemic I imagine.

As others have said what makes people think that officials watching a video replay will be any less biased or incompetent than officials on the pitch or on the touchlines?

The papers in England regularly have analysis of VAR decisions with former referees often disagreeing with the VAR decision.

I doubt we would have won the cup in 1998 if VAR had been in use for some of the borderline decisions in the final. 

Anyway I think overcoming bad decisions is part and parcel of the game which players have to get used to long before they ever get to a level where VAR is likely to be employed.. A bad decision can get the players and fans up for a game they may have been struggling to make an impression on.

And of course allows the often rather feeble "we wiz robbed" excuse in after match analysis on JKB and elsewhere.

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Tom Hardy’s Dug

Having seen it plenty in the flesh at rugby I personally thinks it adds to the atmosphere/drama.

 

Thats on the basis though that the TMO is as transparent as it can be. Screens of the incident showing it in ground. Ref miked up. And a high percentage rate of getting the decision right.

 

I still think VAR will be better for us than not and will get better with time.

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15 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

VAR destroys the fundamental principle that football is the same at all levels. It confirms it is primarily a business not a sport. As if we didn't already know that.


Just watched the West Ham goal against Leeds. Clearly offside but passed the VAR check! 🤷‍♂️

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8 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

I have magic beans to sell those who think this will somehow hinder Rangers/Celtic.

 

Brines literally watched Zaliukas being headbutted by Lee Miller and said he was correct to send Marius off. It's a cabal, stop giving your minds a treat.


Still disgusted by that decision! Brines hated us.

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wallace_mercer
14 hours ago, Smithee said:

Why?

There's just as much controversy with it, so what's the point in the expense?


so referees have something to hide behind against the old firm fan back lash

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We need to stop being prehistoric even the A League in Oz have it FFS!can only benefit every club outside Old Firm so don't know why ANYONE who supports another team would be against it 

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18 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

VAR destroys the fundamental principle that football is the same at all levels. It confirms it is primarily a business not a sport. As if we didn't already know that.

VAR destroys wrong decisions and makes it a more fair playing game because the Old Firm have always had biased Referees, Linesmen & lately 4th Officials in their pocket.

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Francis Albert
18 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

VAR destroys wrong decisions and makes it a more fair playing game because the Old Firm have always had biased Referees, Linesmen & lately 4th Officials in their pocket.

But not the VAR officials/viewers?

Edited by Francis Albert
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Not a huge fan, but it will happen, its unfortunately a progression of the game / sport that will be mandated at some point next season or the following ( IMO)

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Smith's right boot

It's happening and if used properly it's a good thing. 

 

Will even up ( a little if not completely) the OF bias. 

You just need to look at Devlin getting throat grabbed at Ibrox and the Celtic goal recently v us. 

 

More decisions will be correct. That is a fact. 

That is a good thing and any sentimental  piss about all levels of football being  the same are in the past. 

It's sentimental drivel Tbh. 

 

It's a multi million pound sport even at our level, the players are also faster and fitter than ever so any help to officiate the games and get more decisions correct is a good thing. 

 

One thing that annoys me the most in life is people that moan about something, in this case the refs being poor and being bias, but when a change is Initiated to help the issue they don't want it to change. 

I know it's human nature to resist change, but folk that moan and don't welcome a  change that helps a thing they themselves moan about and recognise as a problem should put themselves in the bin. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Smith's right boot
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Nunya Business
On 09/01/2022 at 07:13, SpruceBringsteen said:

I have magic beans to sell those who think this will somehow hinder Rangers/Celtic.

 

Brines literally watched Zaliukas being headbutted by Lee Miller and said he was correct to send Marius off. It's a cabal, stop giving your minds a treat.

 

This. The idea the current crop of refs will suddenly become more impartial because they've got a daft TV screen are deluding themselves. It's still the same clowns making the decisions, they're just making them from a daft wee hut in Glasgow.

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What winds me up the most is some of the pundits & commentators on BT/Sky etc who spend all game moaning about it if it overturns a decision because they don't understand the rules, they then bring in an ex ref as an expert ie Peter Walton on BT to explain the rules & why the decisions been overturned correctly, & they then start banging on about "clear & obvious" etc & continue to question it even though it's been explained why it's the correct decision. Absolute torture to listen to & way more annoying than waiting for it to check.

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People who think there's a conspiracy in favour of Rangers and Celtic that will be ended by more of the same officials looking at the games, I have a large London Bridge for sale.

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Tommy Brown
2 hours ago, Diego10 said:

People who think there's a conspiracy in favour of Rangers and Celtic that will be ended by more of the same officials looking at the games, I have a large London Bridge for sale.

 

How much are you looking for, I have cash and a good line in crypto.

 

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Tommy Brown
2 hours ago, boag1874 said:

What winds me up the most is some of the pundits & commentators on BT/Sky etc who spend all game moaning about it if it overturns a decision because they don't understand the rules, they then bring in an ex ref as an expert ie Peter Walton on BT to explain the rules & why the decisions been overturned correctly, & they then start banging on about "clear & obvious" etc & continue to question it even though it's been explained why it's the correct decision. Absolute torture to listen to & way more annoying than waiting for it to check.

 

Not really VAR at fault with this :lol:

 

Understand what your getting at though.

Football must be job in life where no one involved really takes the time to learn the laws.

Players, coaches/managers, pindits & journalists.

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37 minutes ago, the general said:

Proven again tonight that it is a [email protected] show 

Over 3 minutes and still no one is sure why goal was disallowed

Great though though when used properly though like the Arsenal and Manchester City game last week.😄

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11 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

Not really VAR at fault with this :lol:

 

Understand what your getting at though.

Football must be job in life where no one involved really takes the time to learn the laws.

Players, coaches/managers, pindits & journalists.

Aww 100% not VARs fault, I’m for VAR, it’s dinosaur pundits I’m against :lol:

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9 hours ago, the general said:

Proven again tonight that it is a [email protected] show 

Over 3 minutes and still no one is sure why goal was disallowed

 

That took way too long. Is it offside? Is the Man U boy fouled? Did the ball touch AV boys hand/arm? Absolute joke. I even had time to make a cup of tea and it still hadn't been decided. Get VAR to feck, keep goal line technology. At least I will be old enough to remember when football was football without all the assistance that refs have now and which spoils the match day experience. And why have VAR at Premier stadia only and not every stadium? 

 

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On the whole when watching rugby, cricket etc it appears that in the end the vast majority of decisions are accepted, plus inside the stadium you get to see the decision play out on screen and listen to the decision making process.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

That took way too long. Is it offside? Is the Man U boy fouled? Did the ball touch AV boys hand/arm? Absolute joke. I even had time to make a cup of tea and it still hadn't been decided. Get VAR to feck, keep goal line technology. At least I will be old enough to remember when football was football without all the assistance that refs have now and which spoils the match day experience. And why have VAR at Premier stadia only and not every stadium? 

 

 

The stoppage last night was a joke. It's one where the decision to disallow the goal can probably be technically justified, but had the goal been given there would have been very few complaints. 

 

One thing that really annoys me about VAR is when they ask the referee to look at the screen himself, as in those cases the decision is as good as already made. I can't think of many cases so far where the referee has been asked to look again at a penalty incident and has not given the penalty.    

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On 08/01/2022 at 13:31, Masonic said:

When its introduced in a couple years the experience of going to the football is going to completely change for Scottish fans. Tempo will be slowed right down because of VAR and its impossible to know if to celebrate or not as u dont know if VAR will see something. Even having video evidence when in Weegie and i feel wont be sufficient for officials to give regualr decisive decisions against the old firm. Enjoy the next couple years because after that it wont be the same.

 

I'll love it.

 

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Birregrande
On 08/01/2022 at 22:26, Groatallar said:

I was speaking to a current SPL ref who was at a VAR training session. He said to me to bear in mind it is only obvious errors that will be overturned despite some of the refs not agreeing with that stance.

 

IMO it will level things up a bit as weak referees will have the majority of their bottle crash wrong decisions in favour of the OF overturned.

 

His opinion was just wait until an error in a game involving one of the OF is not looked at by VAR (due to it not being deemed as an obvious error) for the fireworks to start!

I wish the Scottish version changes the wording obvious to important [ie goal scoring opportunity] or something..

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Actually, the "clear and obvious" criteria that VAR was introduced for has been somewhat superseded.  For example, the drawing of lines across the pitch to ascertain whether a player is ever so slightly offside or not.  The fact that some offside decisions can take several minutes proves that it was not a clear and obvious error.

 

However, you can argue that offside is offside, even if only by an inch or two, and VAR is being used to try to get these decisions right, no matter how marginal.

 

I think the bigger problem with VAR is when it comes down to a matter of interpretation of the rules.  There have been several incidents recently with what looked like clear red card tackles either going unpunished, or resulting in a yellow card, and VAR hasn't overruled the ref's decision, or at least asked him to review the incident.

 

 

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cosanostra

I don't understand Hearts fans who actively want VAR in Scotland. Decision making Is still highly erratic and subjective and you just know it'll be a whole new way for referees to **** smaller teams over and hand decisions to the Old Firm. 

They'll be looking for tiny pushes and blocks in the box to overturn goals that they don't want.

I don't think this will be good for anyone other than the Old Firm.

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Stupid Sexy Flanders
On 09/01/2022 at 15:52, rory78 said:

We need to stop being prehistoric even the A League in Oz have it FFS!can only benefit every club outside Old Firm so don't know why ANYONE who supports another team would be against it 

 

You're mental if you think it'll benefit the rest of us. Any time anybody scores against the OF, the video official will pore over the footage for as long as it takes to find a reason to disallow it. 

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Reports in the papers are the meeting/vote on it in February is being pushed back probably to April. This will delay the introduction further

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