Woodburn - home for just after Xmas?

[Section Q]

14 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I like Woodburn and if he was our player I would want us to persevere.

 

I also don’t know what he is costing us.

 

But if him going back to Liverpool in the winter break allowed us to get a new player in who would take that?

 

I would.

Didn't see the game but if he was hoisted after 29 minutes he must have been dire......

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Didn't see the game but if he was hoisted after 29 minutes he must have been dire......

Today dire would have been an improvement. Looked all out of sorts. Had no idea what was going on around him at least 3 times. Needs to be sat down for a bit. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Was the game against Dundee United that long ago ?

Great, we’re going to get one good game a season?

[Jambof3tornado]

2 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Today dire would have been an improvement. Looked all out of sorts. Had no idea what was going on around him at least 3 times. Needs to be sat down for a bit. 

Dont think he could get over how shite that pitch is.

 

To be fair there were no theatrics when he came off. Onto the bench and sat down.

[i8hibsh]

He has no chance of making it at Liverpool and I am not too sure he would even make it at the SPL.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

£10 million. You know he wasn't, one before and consecutively for years yes 

Who the **** is going to pay £10 million for a guy that looks pish in SPFL? I mean, seriously!🤣

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

4 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Dont think he could get over how shite that pitch is.

 

To be fair there were no theatrics when he came off. Onto the bench and sat down.

I’d love you to be right. 
“boss this isn’t for me, do what ever you must”

The first minute break when he passed right to Boyce marked by three while McKay (think) was wide open left was the first sign for me he just didn’t have it today. It got worse from there. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Probably is worth £10 million in today's market. Plays for Liverpool as an attacking midfielder. People are forgetting that

You’re forgetting he doesn’t play for Liverpool!  He’s not good enough that’s why he’s on loan here.  Just like N’goo.  Poppadom Hands was on the books at Man U, Demi Mitchell at Man City, doubt any of them would fetch much of a transfer fee.

[FERRY HEARTS]

IV been questioning Bens ability in the Scottish physical game for a few weeks now ! Certainly talented footballer with a lazy looking streak. Maybee used to playing the game in a far more attacking formation than we ever play . His career will go nowhere with performances of late .

[jr ewing]

Keep 

[gnasher75]

He needs to play in the front three not in midfield. But right now Boyce, MacKay, Ginnelly and GMS are all ahead of him in the queue.

 

He has shown some flashes of why he is a Liverpool player but also the inconsistency that explains why he is out on loan.

[feedthefox]

Been given plenty opportunities but he's regressed a bit, not sure the ignominy of being hooked after 20mins is going to help either.

[greggy123]

Remember he’s a 21 year old lad learning his trade, let’s not be too harsh on him. Aye he hasn’t delivered what we expected but it’s a complete different game up here to anything he’ll have experienced before. He has bags of ability but needs to adapt to the tempo and physicality of the game up here. Nothing worse than seeing fans turn on a player, especially a younger lad. 

[cosanostra]

I'd keep him if we can.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

As I say - I quite like the lad but as he is on loan the question is more about whether we could get better on loan rather than keep him for the second half of the season, if it’s the case that budget requires one on one out.

 

He clearly doesn’t seem interested in wanting to play here long term - which is fine - so can we get better post new year. 
 

My view is yes.

[gregzy2k7]

Before I thought he was a top player and after watching his second goal back against Dundee united, I believe he does have the talent to be really good but the problem is we haven't seen it anywhere near enough, what has he played now about 12/13 games ? He has contributed very little in that time, I would rather give the game time to someone like a mceneff who often bursts a gut to get near the box and get a shot off (was unlucky not to score today) Woodburn is a good player, their is no doubt about that, but will we see it often enough is my question? And if not then why persist with him for the one time in every 5 or 6 matches that he actually produces the goods. I'm unsure tbh, wouldn't be devestated if he left in Jan.

[portobellojambo1]

5 hours ago, Gambo said:

Good player  not utilised correctly.

 

While I understand what you say I'm not sure if either we, or him, know what his best position is. From his point of view it is maybe fairly disappointing to read that he has been out on loan 4 times now from Liverpool, and on each occasion prior to this present spell his loans have all ended early due to them not working out for one reason or another.

 

I'd like to see him succeed but even today, when he was taken off it didn't seem to bother him at all, he just wandered off with not a care in the world. And what he is failing on aren't difficult things, it is relatively easy tasks that he is struggling to complete.

[Gershwin]

5 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

I don't see a lack of effort from him. I see a guy that wants to make things happen on the ball 

 

This.

 

Making a lot of assumptions here but...

 

Add in living in a new city when life isn't exactly normal.

 

Add in the expectation of coming from a club like Liverpool (and Klopp wanting another look)

 

Add in his contract situation and that he doesn't know where he'll be playing his football next year.

 

Add in the fact he's never really played a full season under the spotlight in a 'top' league.

 

He's not a robot and will probably be affected by some/all of these things.

 

I'd keep him for the season myself – we've certainly seen flashes of what he can do and I do think he was part of the reason we started the season so well.

 

 

[Hectormasson]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

He has no chance of making it at Liverpool and I am not too sure he would even make it at the SPL.

Correct...

[FarmerTweedy]

5 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Probably is worth £10 million in today's market. Plays for Liverpool as an attacking midfielder. People are forgetting that

He doesn't play for Liverpool anymore, and never will again. 

[daavojaay]

9 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

How much is he worth now,and was he called up for last wales squad?

Hes worth like 1mil

[daavojaay]

Spoiler

 

Get him the **** he's awful doesn't give a shit and thinks he is better than he is. He has been found out as SPL is above his level as he's been found out every other place he has been. Effort is also an ability and should be judged as one, he couldn't spell the word

[Hearts1975]

Keep. I still don’t think he is a midfielder in all honesty. Better played up front. He just wasn’t aware at all in the 1st half - can have no complaints being hooked after 20 mins 

 

I hope we punt Gnando, and replace like for like instead 

[queensferryjambo]

9 hours ago, Section Q said:

Didn't see the game but if he was hoisted after 29 minutes he must have been dire......

 

 

He was, but the big question has to be asked why such a dip in form?

 

He was terrific against Dundee Utd then his form seems to have fallen off the edge of a cliff.

[Newton51]

Was he not 1 of the players who collapsed at the remembrance memorial?

[DH1986]

He just couldn’t handle the pace of the game v Celtic and again yesterday.

 

 

[SomethingAboutObua]

Not fussed, thought he needed time but he was really really bad yesterday in just 30 minutes. Looks like a shoe-in to join the list of forgettable EPL loanees for the moment. 

[Nelly Terraces]

28 minutes ago, SomethingAboutObua said:

Not fussed, thought he needed time but he was really really bad yesterday in just 30 minutes. Looks like a shoe-in to join the list of forgettable EPL loanees for the moment. 

Yep, agree with this. Looks like mid table English Championship player at best & that's being kind. Touch of a donkey, awareness of Mr Magoo, just a poor footballer really. 

[davie1980]

13 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

 

What's he worth. £10 million, 10 caps for Wales at 21 

If anyone is scouting him now and pays 10m for him, they need their head reading

[TexasAndy]

I just feel a real sense of frustration with Woodburn.  There is a player in there which he has shown in glimpses.  I just wonder if he lacks a bit of dig when we are up against it.   I think he still has a part to play in our season so hopefully he can turn it around.  Watched Man U player Fred yesterday.  Absolutely slaughtered for being a donkey for months, yesterday he was outstanding.  

[Jamhammer]

10 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Great, we’re going to get one good game a season?

He plays for Liverpool you know 😀

[Jamhammer]

1 hour ago, Newton51 said:

Was he not 1 of the players who collapsed at the remembrance memorial?

I think he was so maybe not quite right but why play him if that’s the case?

[Harry Potter]

40 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

He plays for Liverpool you know 😀

That goalie played for Man U.

[JamboAl]

43 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I think he was so maybe not quite right but why play him if that’s the case?

Terms of the loan agreement maybe?

Edited December 6, 2021 by JamboAl

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Terms of the loan agreement maybe?

 

Liverpool wanted him to play every week but we didn't agree to it

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I forgot about the Memorial thing. I wonder if he’s had covid or something and it’s hit him a bit harder than most younger folk? 
 

But then again, if so, why start him - the amount of data monitoring should show up stamina issues.

[PapaShango]

Woodburn has been disappointing, but like everyone else, it's more frustrating than anything else. Clearly the boy has ability but just isn't showing it on the pitch apart from 1 or 2 games. Yesterday will no doubt have been a kick in the stomach for him getting hooked after half an hour. It's all about how he reacts to that. Roll the sleeves up and show everyone how good you are, or go into your shell never to be seen again. Don't agree with everyone wanting him sent back. He's a young boy, got to give him a chance. 

[JamboBoy]

16 hours ago, A.JAMBO said:

He is a bit sulky.

Due to the lad being a  Liverpool  starlet we seem to think he is a first team player. We have Cochrane Devlin Beni playing in their proper first team debut seasons. Not easy for any of them, some will take longer. These type of players are here to bring them up to speed and sort out ittle issues. We are giving Cochrane and Woodburns  parent clubs a lot of help. At the moment it looks like Ben is a duffer, i am not so quick to rule him out. I have said he has been dugshite V Celtic and now V Livi. Both away games though at brutal places. Home V Rangers may be a different story...

There is no chance he will start v Rangers. How ridiculous would that look? He will be lucky to get on the bench quite frankly.

[JamboBoy]

1 hour ago, Harry Potter said:

That goalie played for Man U.

Michael Stewart played for Man United you know - enough said!

[JamboBoy]

10 hours ago, Gershwin said:

 

This.

 

Making a lot of assumptions here but...

 

Add in living in a new city when life isn't exactly normal.

 

Add in the expectation of coming from a club like Liverpool (and Klopp wanting another look)

 

Add in his contract situation and that he doesn't know where he'll be playing his football next year.

 

Add in the fact he's never really played a full season under the spotlight in a 'top' league.

 

He's not a robot and will probably be affected by some/all of these things.

 

I'd keep him for the season myself – we've certainly seen flashes of what he can do and I do think he was part of the reason we started the season so well.

 

 

The same as a lot of our other recent signings who have got on with it regardless. All about attitude at the end of the day. His does not seem to be the right one!

[Hesh]

5 hours ago, daavojaay said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Get him the **** he's awful doesn't give a shit and thinks he is better than he is. He has been found out as SPL is above his level as he's been found out every other place he has been. Effort is also an ability and should be judged as one, he couldn't spell the word

 

Seriously what planet are you on to come out with this S****, he may be far from perfect but FFS 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Hesh

[Chillidigits]

Wonder if that was his first experience of a sub standard slippy plastic pitch. Not everyone can handle it.

[Martin_T]

Perhaps no coincidence that his best game for Hearts was the Dundee United game where we played in a similar formation to how Liverpool set up, with a fluid front 3.

 

He has to show a lot, lot more to justify starting games for Hearts. The ability is probably there, but he's 22 now, he'll almost certainly be released at the end of the season by Liverpool, so his performances for the rest of the season will determine at what level he will be playing at next season. On current form, it wont be good enough for a top half of the Scottish Premiership club.

[Tokyo Drifter]

17 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I like Woodburn and if he was our player I would want us to persevere.

 

I also don’t know what he is costing us.

 

But if him going back to Liverpool in the winter break allowed us to get a new player in who would take that?

 

I would.

Move him out, I say. Though I think he's better when he's playing more centrally (that's when his goals came).

[Mighty jam]

17 hours ago, Gambo said:

Good player  not utilised correctly.

In what way is he not being utilized correctly? he is a football player! ultimately let down by the basics yesterday with poor control and gifting ball away far to cheaply. Stop making excuses for him. My 11 year old can play and is willing to play any position on pitch. Woodburn's supposed high pedigree should alllow him to shine against Livi and the likes! Its not happening simply because he is not that good!

[Holtie]

3 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

I just feel a real sense of frustration with Woodburn.  There is a player in there which he has shown in glimpses.  I just wonder if he lacks a bit of dig when we are up against it.   I think he still has a part to play in our season so hopefully he can turn it around.  Watched Man U player Fred yesterday.  Absolutely slaughtered for being a donkey for months, yesterday he was outstanding.  

Tend to agree with you. I don’t know if it is attitude, or he doesn’t fit into our system of play, but there’s definitely a player in there.

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Hesh said:

 

Seriously what planet are you on to come out with this S****, he may be far from perfect but FFS 

He's got a point. 

Ben Woodburn previous loans have not worked out either. 

His career seems to have gone backwards since picking up a string of injuries. 

He's not our player and not our responsibility to sort out his attitude. 

Supposing he does come good, which I think is doubtful, he'll be back down to Liverpool and we'd have  gained very little from him. 

I'm not a fan of loans anyway unless their is a chance of signing the player permanently and we certainly wouldn't be signing BW on current form. 

[Mighty jam]

3 hours ago, davie1980 said:

If anyone is scouting him now and pays 10m for him, they need their head reading

transfermarkt only now value him at 1.8mill and dropping sharply, suspect he will be only six figures shortly - on a par with Craig Wighton 😀

[A.JAMBO]

1 hour ago, JamboBoy said:

There is no chance he will start v Rangers. How ridiculous would that look? He will be lucky to get on the bench quite frankly.

I didn't say he would or should start. 

[Mysterion]

Woodburn has shown rarely that he could be a good player which is a shame. 

 

I would be interested to see what would happen if he tried the Souttar approach - he's come back stronger after bulking up. I wonder if he was put on a strength program if he would benefit in the latter part of the season ?