Turkishcap Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, milky_26 said: does that make you a 20th century boy? And a groover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I’m only 51 but struggle with what’s going on in the world these days. Not really against much of it but I just go WHAT! at a lot of stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, GinRummy said: I’m only 51 but struggle with what’s going on in the world these days. Not really against much of it but I just go WHAT! at a lot of stuff i'm 60 and in the same boat God knows what my Old Dad would have made of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: i'm 60 and in the same boat God knows what my Old Dad would have made of it My old man couldn’t understand what Boy George was all about so aye, I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, GinRummy said: My old man couldn’t understand what Boy George was all about so aye, I know what you mean. And tellingly Boy George is quite outspoken against a lot of the gender politics that is going on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Tazio said: And tellingly Boy George is quite outspoken against a lot of the gender politics that is going on now. Is that right. Wasn’t aware of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I’m glad I’m not the only one who wonders what on earth has happened when people can reinvent themselves into a third gender which it could reasonably be argued doesn’t exist. There is obviously nothing wrong with being a gay male or female person. I’ve worked with, and been friendly with, gay people, but do we now have to think of all gay people as “they” because they are not male or female, or just some of them? I’m confused and don’t want to be considered ignorant towards anyone different from me. It’s getting more difficult as time goes by and more seems to happen, like people not wanting their children to be regarded as male or female, but “they”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: I’m glad I’m not the only one who wonders what on earth has happened when people can reinvent themselves into a third gender which it could reasonably be argued doesn’t exist. There is obviously nothing wrong with being a gay male or female person. I’ve worked with, and been friendly with, gay people, but do we now have to think of all gay people as “they” because they are not male or female, or just some of them? I’m confused and don’t want to be considered ignorant towards anyone different from me. It’s getting more difficult as time goes by and more seems to happen, like people not wanting their children to be regarded as male or female, but “they”. This isn’t a gay thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, Tazio said: This isn’t a gay thing. It's feels like a deliberate, cynical conflation of sexuality and gender. But absolutely not a gay thing. I work with a gay man who is happy being gay and male, and is very much against what he sees as pressure to declare as transgender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said: It's feels like a deliberate, cynical conflation of sexuality and gender. But absolutely not a gay thing. I work with a gay man who is happy being gay and male, and is very much against what he sees as pressure to declare as transgender. It’s getting silly now. So a young man decides he wants to be a woman. Good on him, live your own life. Then once they’re there they want to be called a woman. Fair dos, as long as you’re not one of the oddballs with a beard and living a normal male life calling themselves a woman. That’s just wrong. So now he isn’t a he and is accepted as a woman they get the rug pulled away and discover they will never get recognition as a female artist as an even smaller minority don’t want women and men seen. It’s ****ing mental. Where does it stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Tazio said: This isn’t a gay thing. Thanks for advising me on this. I really have no idea what is going on. I think I should educate myself on this situation I case I’m ever in a position to embarrass myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 15 hours ago, GinRummy said: My old man couldn’t understand what Boy George was all about so aye, I know what you mean. Oh same here. Ill not repeat what my dad used to say when Boy George was on the telly. 14 hours ago, Tazio said: And tellingly Boy George is quite outspoken against a lot of the gender politics that is going on now. He is which is ofcourse angering the trans miliants. 12 hours ago, SectionDJambo said: I’m glad I’m not the only one who wonders what on earth has happened when people can reinvent themselves into a third gender which it could reasonably be argued doesn’t exist. There is obviously nothing wrong with being a gay male or female person. I’ve worked with, and been friendly with, gay people, but do we now have to think of all gay people as “they” because they are not male or female, or just some of them? I’m confused and don’t want to be considered ignorant towards anyone different from me. It’s getting more difficult as time goes by and more seems to happen, like people not wanting their children to be regarded as male or female, but “they”. Its not a gay thing. Its an identify thing. People can be straight but identify as " they" or " non binary" etc 12 hours ago, Tazio said: This isn’t a gay thing. 👍 11 hours ago, CF11JamTart said: It's feels like a deliberate, cynical conflation of sexuality and gender. But absolutely not a gay thing. I work with a gay man who is happy being gay and male, and is very much against what he sees as pressure to declare as transgender. Its a conflation of gender and sex which is the serious issue here. People can get mixed up with " gender" and " sex". I notice even in official documents they ask your gender when it should be what is your sex. Sex is either male or female. it cannot be changed. Gender is how we view ourself. ( male / female / non binary etc.) The tragic part about the gender concept is that it is full of a load of old stereotype's about what a male is and a female is. Long gone are the days when a young lesbian could be a " tomboy" or a young gay lad could be viewed as " camp". Now the new thinking is that they are actually really the opposite sex trapped in a different body. Its an erasure of gay and lesbian identity which is the serious concern i have. Most gay people like your friend are happy being who they are . being a human being who happens to be gay . Its only the minority who are influenced by all the trans / identity mumbo jumbo who are confused about who they are. They are vulnerable to exploitation. 9 hours ago, SectionDJambo said: Thanks for advising me on this. I really have no idea what is going on. I think I should educate myself on this situation I case I’m ever in a position to embarrass myself. Nice to see you are open minded and willing to re think stuff and increase your knowledge base on this subject instead of just condemning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 15 hours ago, GinRummy said: My old man couldn’t understand what Boy George was all about so aye, I know what you mean. Oh same here. Ill not repeat what my dad used to say when Boy George was on the telly. 14 hours ago, Tazio said: And tellingly Boy George is quite outspoken against a lot of the gender politics that is going on now. He is which is ofcourse angering the trans miliants. 12 hours ago, SectionDJambo said: I’m glad I’m not the only one who wonders what on earth has happened when people can reinvent themselves into a third gender which it could reasonably be argued doesn’t exist. There is obviously nothing wrong with being a gay male or female person. I’ve worked with, and been friendly with, gay people, but do we now have to think of all gay people as “they” because they are not male or female, or just some of them? I’m confused and don’t want to be considered ignorant towards anyone different from me. It’s getting more difficult as time goes by and more seems to happen, like people not wanting their children to be regarded as male or female, but “they”. Its not a gay thing. Its an identify thing. People can be straight but identify as " they" or " non binary" etc 12 hours ago, Tazio said: This isn’t a gay thing. 👍 11 hours ago, CF11JamTart said: It's feels like a deliberate, cynical conflation of sexuality and gender. But absolutely not a gay thing. I work with a gay man who is happy being gay and male, and is very much against what he sees as pressure to declare as transgender. Its a conflation of gender and sex which is the serious issue here. People can get mixed up with " gender" and " sex". I notice even in official documents they ask your gender when it should be what is your sex. Sex is either male or female. it cannot be changed. Gender is how we view ourself. ( male / female / non binary etc.) The tragic part about the gender concept is that it is full of a load of old stereotype's about what a male is and a female is. Long gone are the days when a young lesbian could be a " tomboy" or a young gay lad could be viewed as " camp". Now the new thinking is that they are actually really the opposite sex trapped in a different body. Its an erasure of gay and lesbian identity which is the serious concern i have. Most gay people like your friend are happy being who they are . being a human being who happens to be gay . Its only the minority who are influenced by all the trans / identity mumbo jumbo who are confused about who they are. They are vulnerable to exploitation. 9 hours ago, SectionDJambo said: Thanks for advising me on this. I really have no idea what is going on. I think I should educate myself on this situation I case I’m ever in a position to embarrass myself. Nice to see you are open minded and willing to re think stuff and increase your knowledge base on this subject instead of just condemning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Where do I start with this article ? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/i-see-a-man-that-isnt-me-edinburgh-trans-woman-desperate-for-facial-surgery-3468899?fbclid=IwAR01hCWpK8i3UGaiJvGYB4foT5qxf9b0tX58Ytt4sK_jDg-gDbDjxdNSW70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 25 minutes ago, jonesy said: This is the thing I don't understand. If people feel (and that's all this is based on, is feelings) that they are 'in the wrong body' and seek to change that by adopting the dress, mannerisms and identity of the opposite sex/gender, then aren't they simply telling us that the entire experience of 'man' or 'woman' can be boiled down to superficial, societal norms? By extension, the fact that these are no more than behaviours means that there is no need to be 'reassigned' - instead the experience of being 'male' or 'female' can and should be recognised as a spectrum. If it's not, then those seeking reassignment (and those enabling them) are guilty of the most subjective, superficial stereotyping of sex/gender norms. There are many types of men out there, from Julian Clary to Nick Offerman. What's wrong with that? Furthermore, why is it not okay for footballers to 'black up' or for western women to 'culturally appropriate' Far Eastern dress styles, but it's okay for a confused and frustrated man from, say London, to dress up like a woman and demand that folk address him as such? That white woman from the States that went around telling folk that she was black got found out and castigated/threatened. That guy from the UK (?) who got plastic surgery to appear Korean was mocked. I don't see much difference between demanding the right to decide gender/sex and race. Agreed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) On 22/11/2021 at 17:55, Cade said: Music is universal. You don't need "bloeks only" and "bursd only" categories; they don't mean anything when it comes to music. Brit awards could just be saving money on the number of awards to hand out and cutting down the length of the ceremony itself. Adele aside, the future challenge for the Brits will be if very few women get nominated. Which is the main reason for male / female categories. Though of course women are mostly an after thought in the whole trans debate. Edited November 24, 2021 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Adele aside, the future challenge for the Brits will be if very few women get nominated. Which is the main reason for male / female categories. Though of course women are mostly an after thought in the whole trans debate. I very much expect the nominations will be engineered to ensure a wide spread of all the genders and colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 5 hours ago, JamesM48 said: Where do I start with this article ? https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/i-see-a-man-that-isnt-me-edinburgh-trans-woman-desperate-for-facial-surgery-3468899?fbclid=IwAR01hCWpK8i3UGaiJvGYB4foT5qxf9b0tX58Ytt4sK_jDg-gDbDjxdNSW70 They need help. If she is so worried about her 'safety' that she is crowed funding a surgery to make her look more like a woman then she needs help from mental health professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, indianajones said: They need help. If she is so worried about her 'safety' that she is crowed funding a surgery to make her look more like a woman then she needs help from mental health professionals. Exactly . And If so worried about it then why plaster her face all about social media! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) Informative thread. Thanks everyone. I always like to get my perspective on changing societal values and norms from frustrated middle-aged men on football forums. Wouldn't know what to do without it. Edited November 24, 2021 by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 minute ago, jonesy said: Shame for the poor sod. Very little logic to their arguments, however. However, I would guess that expensive plastic surgery isn't going to solve many of his problems. Yes that’s exactly the issue . It’s not a cosmetic issue it’s an internal issue regarding self esteem , internalised homophobia and self hatred . They need therapy , and lots of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Must be getting on 30 years since winning a Grammy actually meant something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Informative thread. Thanks everyone. I always like to get my perspective on changing societal values and norms from frustrated middle-aged men on football forums. Wouldn't know what to do without it. I’m hardly “ frustrated “ more realistic and exasperated . Rather ageist comment really . 19 minutes ago, jonesy said: Article mentions a supportive wife, which hopefully helps. Yes well when I read that part I rolled me eyes as only I can ! Just reminded me of the tv series “ soap “ which ended with “ confused you won’t be after this episode “ ! ( or something along those lines) in fact maybe the wife can help with her wife’s make up ? And hair and clothes ? Unless she’s a biological male ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, JackLadd said: Must be getting on 30 years since winning a Grammy actually meant something. The problem is they have around 128 categories to dish out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, jonesy said: How come? Cause it’s narcissistic bullshit stereotyping of what women should look like . These are women ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 33 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: I’m hardly “ frustrated “ more realistic and exasperated . Rather ageist comment really . Exasperated basically means intensely frustrated. Some of you sound like 1950s Baptists thinking we are all doomed because Elvis generates his hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Informative thread. Thanks everyone. I always like to get my perspective on changing societal values and norms from frustrated middle-aged men on football forums. Wouldn't know what to do without it. J K Rowling isn’t a middle aged man as far as I’m aware and she is being lambasted for having similar views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Exasperated basically means intensely frustrated. Some of you sound like 1950s Baptists thinking we are all doomed because Elvis generates his hips. You don’t know me much then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Just now, jonesy said: They 3D printers in the 1950s were ahead of their time. Haha. ****. Gyrates. I'd prefer it folk lost their shit at predictive text, rather than the Brits. That's the true enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, jonesy said: Indeed. I see no more validity in their call for support than a 5' 1" goalkeeper requesting surgery to make them taller because that's what goalies ought to look like. Each to their own, however, and if folk are happy to chuck money at them for this, then good luck. Doubt they will get much cash . The usual character’s might support them but may not part with the readies for them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: J K Rowling isn’t a middle aged man as far as I’m aware and she is being lambasted for having similar views. Yes and she’s had numerous death threats from the cowards too . Shameful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 8 hours ago, JamesM48 said: Oh same here. Ill not repeat what my dad used to say when Boy George was on the telly. He is which is ofcourse angering the trans miliants. Its not a gay thing. Its an identify thing. People can be straight but identify as " they" or " non binary" etc 👍 Its a conflation of gender and sex which is the serious issue here. People can get mixed up with " gender" and " sex". I notice even in official documents they ask your gender when it should be what is your sex. Sex is either male or female. it cannot be changed. Gender is how we view ourself. ( male / female / non binary etc.) The tragic part about the gender concept is that it is full of a load of old stereotype's about what a male is and a female is. Long gone are the days when a young lesbian could be a " tomboy" or a young gay lad could be viewed as " camp". Now the new thinking is that they are actually really the opposite sex trapped in a different body. Its an erasure of gay and lesbian identity which is the serious concern i have. Most gay people like your friend are happy being who they are . being a human being who happens to be gay . Its only the minority who are influenced by all the trans / identity mumbo jumbo who are confused about who they are. They are vulnerable to exploitation. Nice to see you are open minded and willing to re think stuff and increase your knowledge base on this subject instead of just condemning it. We are quite aligned this stuff, James. The bit I've highlighted is a concern. It feels like we are in danger getting to a place where a man cannot be "just" be gay... A gay man who's happy to be both gay and a man. It feels like there's an insidious movement to pressurise that individual in to deciding that they are trapped in the wrong body, declare that they are trans... And potentially get railroaded in to potentially irreversible medical intervention. And also the erosion of women's sex-based rights. At the more trivial end of things, there was a thing on BBC Wales news a wee while ago. A supposedly feel-good story about how a trans woman had joined a Valleys amateurs rugby team and was setting new try-scoring records.. Basically bulldozing through the other players. This was apparently a triumph for inclusion... As far as I'm concerned, it's unfair and possibly unsafe. I'd be cheesed off if my daughter was playing amateur rugby and had a large person who had been through male puberty charging at her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Des Lynam said: J K Rowling isn’t a middle aged man as far as I’m aware and she is being lambasted for having similar views. Neither is Joanna Cherry. As she pointed out, it's odd that a middle aged lesbian taking about women's sex-based rights gets so much heat and aggro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: We are quite aligned this stuff, James. The bit I've highlighted is a concern. It feels like we are in danger getting to a place where a man cannot be "just" be gay... A gay man who's happy to be both gay and a man. It feels like there's an insidious movement to pressurise that individual in to deciding that they are trapped in the wrong body, declare that they are trans... And potentially get railroaded in to potentially irreversible medical intervention. And also the erosion of women's sex-based rights. At the more trivial end of things, there was a thing on BBC Wales news a wee while ago. A supposedly feel-good story about how a trans woman had joined a Valleys amateurs rugby team and was setting new try-scoring records.. Basically bulldozing through the other players. This was apparently a triumph for inclusion... As far as I'm concerned, it's unfair and possibly unsafe. I'd be cheesed off if my daughter was playing amateur rugby and had a large person who had been through male puberty charging at her. Good points. Yes the erasure of gay or lesbian identity is concerning. However there is now a rousing kickback against much of those militant nonsense. Stonewall have lost their prestigious support of the BBC and other institutions due to their trans and gender militancy and conversely the erosion of gay / lesbian identity. 34 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: Neither is Joanna Cherry. As she pointed out, it's odd that a middle aged lesbian taking about women's sex-based rights gets so much heat and aggro. Joanna Cherry is a real warrior . Proud she is my local MP too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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