John souttar

[Newton51]

Least if we sell him although cheaper than he is worth then we can add on a sell on clause too

[tian447]

3 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

If he does go hopefully England, but let us be honest he is injury prone and not a long term investment plus he has no HMFC loyalty. Good luck to him whatever his choce. So if he fails to sign a contract extension  with us DO NOT PLAY HIM he will leave for nothing so what!

 

What the **** is this nonsense that keeps getting spouted on here? 

 

He's been at Hearts for 5, nearly 6 years, and in that time has made well over 100 appearances.  He's spent a lot of time out injured, and signed new contract extensions in the past to more than cover the time he had been out.  What more do you ****ing want? A 10 year extension where he never ever leaves? 

 

If your definition of loyalty is "signs a new contract to try and get a transfer fee, for a fantasy offer that might never come in", then you are kidding yourself. If that were to happen, there is no guarantee that a club would be willing to pony up £5 Million for a player who might get injured in training and that's the end of it. It's harsh, but with his injury history, it will be one that clubs are considering long and hard. 

 

Newsflash, the days of 1 club men are long gone and the number of them currently in football could likely be numbered on one hand.  So he's never going to achieve loyalty that way. 

 

He has the chance to at least triple, or quadruple, his wages down South and could be one bad injury away from never kicking a ball again.  If someone offered to the chance to do the exact same job that you're doing right now, for 4x your salary, would you turn it down?  No chance. 

 

If he doesn't sign an extension, we would be absolutely ****ing mental to not play him for the rest of the season.  Should we just chuck points in every game just to spite one player? You've seen the state of this place after a bad result, could you imagine if we willingly launched points about left, right, and centre? 

 

I'm getting sick of people making him out to be Judas. Are we going to boo his name when the lineups are announced as well now? 

Edited November 25, 2021 by tian447

[pettigrewsstylist]

53 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

2nd?!  🤣

Seems a long shot. Giving up in Nov seems a bit poor tho.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

His medical record is amassive gamble for any club and will be reflected in any offer I suspect. Maybe better to keep him till summer if we think 2nd could be possible.

You could say it’s a gamble to keep him as he might not manage the whole season, maybe best to judge it in January and see if we get a decent bid and as it’s been said get a sell on fee negotiated also. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Seems a long shot. Giving up in Nov seems a bit poor tho.

I’m not giving up on it, I was realistic enough to know it was never a possibility in the first place.  We won’t finish within 20 points of either of the arsecheeks. Also means there’s no disappointment.  3rd will be an excellent season given where we were even at the end of the Championship season with the poor squad we finished that season with.  

Maybe if we can continue strengthening next season or the season after and Rangers continue to be a basket case….

[pettigrewsstylist]

23 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’m not giving up on it, I was realistic enough to know it was never a possibility in the first place.  We won’t finish within 20 points of either of the arsecheeks. Also means there’s no disappointment.  3rd will be an excellent season given where we were even at the end of the Championship season with the poor squad we finished that season with.  

Maybe if we can continue strengthening next season or the season after and Rangers continue to be a basket case….

We will all be delighted with 3rd, but ill not be hoping for nothing better this early.

[Rogue Daddy]

11 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Does the money not stay in Scotland anyway, regardless of who pays it? 🤔 

The uglies money stays in Scotland as opposed to buying down south… that will be the media spin. God bless the OF and everything they do for our game. 

[DH1986]

Really disappointed in Souttar if he leaves as a Free Agent……

 

So we should punt him January, insist on a decent sell-on clause and get him to feck.

 

 

 

 

[Penrices left boot]

8 hours ago, tian447 said:

 

What the **** is this nonsense that keeps getting spouted on here? 

 

He's been at Hearts for 5, nearly 6 years, and in that time has made well over 100 appearances.  He's spent a lot of time out injured, and signed new contract extensions in the past to more than cover the time he had been out.  What more do you ****ing want? A 10 year extension where he never ever leaves? 

 

If your definition of loyalty is "signs a new contract to try and get a transfer fee, for a fantasy offer that might never come in", then you are kidding yourself. If that were to happen, there is no guarantee that a club would be willing to pony up £5 Million for a player who might get injured in training and that's the end of it. It's harsh, but with his injury history, it will be one that clubs are considering long and hard. 

 

Newsflash, the days of 1 club men are long gone and the number of them currently in football could likely be numbered on one hand.  So he's never going to achieve loyalty that way. 

 

He has the chance to at least triple, or quadruple, his wages down South and could be one bad injury away from never kicking a ball again.  If someone offered to the chance to do the exact same job that you're doing right now, for 4x your salary, would you turn it down?  No chance. 

 

If he doesn't sign an extension, we would be absolutely ****ing mental to not play him for the rest of the season.  Should we just chuck points in every game just to spite one player? You've seen the state of this place after a bad result, could you imagine if we willingly launched points about left, right, and centre? 

 

I'm getting sick of people making him out to be Judas. Are we going to boo his name when the lineups are announced as well now? 

 

 

All fair,  but of he signs a pre contract with the OF I wouldn't play him. 

I'd think twice with any pre contract. 

 

You mention what a normal person would do if offered 3/4 times their salary and I agree with you, but it also works with handing in your notice. 

No matter how professional an Individual is they won't give 100 % even mentally and with Souttars medical history Likley physicality as well. 

I  wouldn't want to be injured for my new employers. 

 

If he's not signing we need to move in January, last thing we need is a player with his head elsewhere and the possibility of creating tension in the dressing room. 

 

Also, the fans will turn as well at the earliest sign of a poor performance. 

 

It will go sour quickly imo. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Rogue Daddy]

29 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Really disappointed in Souttar if he leaves as a Free Agent……

 

So we should punt him January, insist on a decent sell-on clause and get him to feck.

 

 

 

 

Here’s the dilemma… would you rather we got a few £s from the OF in January, or he leaves for a free, down south, in the summer?

Got to say, I would prefer the latter. At least he would be with us in our push for Europe.

I would only be bitter towards the lad if he went to the uglies… and if he signs a pre-contract for either of them in January, he shouldn’t kick another ball for us. Petty, I know. But if he wants to go to England or abroad, good luck to the boy. 

[Rick Sanchez]

I think he wants to play with his brother tbh...and a sell on fee will be next to worthless...IMO.

 

Keep him to secure 3rd or 4th and wish him well. Get scouting though.

[Rogue Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Rogue Daddy
🤪

[Rogue Daddy]

10 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

All fair,  but of he signs a pre contract with the OF I wouldn't play him. 

I'd think twice with any pre contract. 

 

You mention what a normal person would do if offered 3/4 times their salary and I agree with you, but it also works with handing in your notice. 

No matter how professional an Individual is they won't give 100 % even mentally and with Souttars medical history Likley physicality as well. 

I  wouldn't want to be injured for my new employers. 

 

If he's not signing we need to move in January, last thing we need is a player with his head elsewhere and the possibility of creating tension in the dressing room. 

 

Also, the fans will turn as well at the earliest sign of a poor performance. 

 

It will go sour quickly imo. 

 

 

Yeah, your probably right. He’s hardly going to put his body on the line in tackles/challenges when his allegiances lie elsewhere.. especially with his injury history. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Rogue Daddy

[TyphoonJambo]

6 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Here’s the dilemma… would you rather we got a few £s from the OF in January, or he leaves for a free, down south, in the summer?

Got to say, I would prefer the latter. At least he would be with us in our push for Europe.

I would only be bitter towards the lad if he went to the uglies… and if he signs a pre-contract for either of them in January, he shouldn’t kick another ball for us. Petty, I know. But if he wants to go to England or abroad, good luck to the boy. 

100%. I'm as petty as you. This scenario is, for me, the least palatable and he should be made aware as to how let down the fans feel.

However, based upon nothing other than a blind faith that he is a man with decent moral standards, I don't think he'll take the pre contract to Glasgow option.

Either way,we'll find out soon.

[OTT]

Funny thing is signing a contract could be the safest thing for him.

 

Scenario: refuses to sign a contract, offers come in and all derisory. Hearts reject and he risks injury to the end of the season.

 

Signs contract, bumps up transfer offer to an acceptable level and Hearts reluctantly sell. 
 

Of course he could finish the season injury free, but it’s a gamble and I’m not sure that’s a gamble I’d like to make. 

[Rogue Daddy]

20 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

100%. I'm as petty as you. This scenario is, for me, the least palatable and he should be made aware as to how let down the fans feel.

However, based upon nothing other than a blind faith that he is a man with decent moral standards, I don't think he'll take the pre contract to Glasgow option.

Either way,we'll find out soon.

🙏...hope you're right! I really don't think he'll go to either of the uglies for the reason you give... we HAVE stuck by him with his injuries, I genuinely believe he's enjoyed his time with us and thinks a lot of the club and fans - and, for those reasons, I don't think he would go west... especially for free or next to nothing.

[Jeffros Furios]

35 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Here’s the dilemma… would you rather we got a few £s from the OF in January, or he leaves for a free, down south, in the summer?

Got to say, I would prefer the latter. At least he would be with us in our push for Europe.

I would only be bitter towards the lad if he went to the uglies… and if he signs a pre-contract for either of them in January, he shouldn’t kick another ball for us. Petty, I know. But if he wants to go to England or abroad, good luck to the boy. 

Sell him in January regardless where he goes , I've not read much of the thread but I'd rather have £400k than an injury prone player for 5 months .

I'm picking £400k out the air as I have no idea the figures being mentioned .

 

[Batistuta87]

17 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Sell him in January regardless where he goes , I've not read much of the thread but I'd rather have £400k than an injury prone player for 5 months .

I'm picking £400k out the air as I have no idea the figures being mentioned .

 

Same. If he's not signing a new deal (which seems increasingly unlikely), then I'd rather we just sold him in January, replaced him, and got on with the rest of the season. £400-500k doesn't sound too unrealistic to me and if that's what we end up getting then I'd like to see us look into getting Moore on a permanent deal. 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

28 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Same. If he's not signing a new deal (which seems increasingly unlikely), then I'd rather we just sold him in January, replaced him, and got on with the rest of the season. £400-500k doesn't sound too unrealistic to me and if that's what we end up getting then I'd like to see us look into getting Moore on a permanent deal. 

 

I'd imagine we will be looking to bring in a forward and if we are being ambitious that  money could make the difference in recruiting a good player.  

 

[Batistuta87]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I'd imagine we will be looking to bring in a forward and if we are being ambitious that  money could make the difference in recruiting a good player.  

 

 

Definitely. Having a wee bit money to spend could open up a number of additional options compared to what would be available if we were only looking for free agents or loans.

 

[SM Sheffield]

1 hour ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Sell him in January regardless where he goes , I've not read much of the thread but I'd rather have £400k than an injury prone player for 5 months .

I'm picking £400k out the air as I have no idea the figures being mentioned .

 

Why bother if the fee is that low? Dundee United are due a percentage of any transfer fee so we would be as well keeping Souttar to make sure that we finish as high up the table as we can. The flip side I guess is we could insert our own sell on clause if we sell but that’s the only real benefit.

[Jeffros Furios]

1 minute ago, SM Sheffield said:

Why bother if the fee is that low? Dundee United are due a percentage of any transfer fee so we would be as well keeping Souttar to make sure that we finish as high up the table as we can. The flip side I guess is we could insert our own sell on clause if we sell but that’s the only real benefit.

I suppose it depends how much we get and what % goes to Utd and yes we should definitely  have a sell on clause if possible .

You never know if theres a lot of clubs wanting him we could maybe get £600k and even if 20% went to Utd that would be a decent amount of additional money , again I'm pulling figures out the air .

[SM Sheffield]

15 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I suppose it depends how much we get and what % goes to Utd and yes we should definitely  have a sell on clause if possible .

You never know if theres a lot of clubs wanting him we could maybe get £600k and even if 20% went to Utd that would be a decent amount of additional money , again I'm pulling figures out the air .

The local Dundee news site are saying it’s a 10% sell on clause that they have.  

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, SM Sheffield said:

Why bother if the fee is that low? Dundee United are due a percentage of any transfer fee so we would be as well keeping Souttar to make sure that we finish as high up the table as we can. The flip side I guess is we could insert our own sell on clause if we sell but that’s the only real benefit.

They only have 10%, so getting £500k or so would only see £50k go their way, which is no massive loss. 

 

[i8hibsh]

Another terrible signing in my eyes.  He is going to go for **** all and for the past 6 years we have paid his wages when half of the time he was injured.

 

It is not that I don't think he is not good as I feel he is a real talent but we simply, as per ususal never got a good return on our investment.

 

He was usually on good form when he played but as a team it never got us anywhere.  We have achieved **** all in the entire time he has been here.

[ramrod]

Stoke will offer circa 500k to get him in January 

[Penrices left boot]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Another terrible signing in my eyes.  He is going to go for **** all and for the past 6 years we have paid his wages when half of the time he was injured.

 

It is not that I don't think he is not good as I feel he is a real talent but we simply, as per ususal never got a good return on our investment.

 

He was usually on good form when he played but as a team it never got us anywhere.  We have achieved **** all in the entire time he has been here.

 

 

We got £100 odd grand out of him. 

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

We got £100 odd grand out of him. 

 

 

 

 

 

What about 6 years worth of wages?

[Forever Hearts]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

What about 6 years worth of wages?

And sent to umpteen different injury specialists all over the place. 

[Penrices left boot]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

What about 6 years worth of wages?

 

What about it? 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

What about it? 

 

 

Have we had the return of him for the money we put in?

[Penrices left boot]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Have we had the return of him for the money we put in?

 

Aye. 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

Aye. 

 

 

 

 

Entitled to your view of course but I just challenge it.  What exactly have we had in return? We have achieved **** all and our win rate has been diabolical sicne he came in.

[May one-six]

Did we not pay a pretty small fee for JS in the first place? I think the best option would be to sell him in January, insert a sell-on clause and use any cash we get for strengthening the squad, whether with Moore or someone else.

[Penrices left boot]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Entitled to your view of course but I just challenge it.  What exactly have we had in return? We have achieved **** all and our win rate has been diabolical sicne he came in.

 

He done his job, we paid him. 

 

Non issue for any sane person.. 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

Just now, May one-six said:

Did we not pay a pretty small fee for JS in the first place? I think the best option would be to sell him in January, insert a sell-on clause and use any cash we get for strengthening the squad, whether with Moore or someone else.

 

 

Yeah, it is more a case of what he has cost us since then and what we have had in return.

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

He done his job, we paid him. 

 

Non issue for any sane person.. 

 

 

 

 

This is on the face of it but looking back on his 6 years and weighing up what we put in and what we got out then the what we put in side tips the scale somewhat.

[Mikey1874]

5 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Really disappointed in Souttar if he leaves as a Free Agent……

 

So we should punt him January, insist on a decent sell-on clause and get him to feck.

 

 

 

 

 

I think he's crucial to this current team, their formation and structure.

 

And the knock on effect of being 2nd or 3rd in league outweighs a fee in January (though I do get the sell on fee argument). 

[The Grim Reaper]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Yeah, it is more a case of what he has cost us since then and what we have had in return.

 

Mediocrity is Tosh's middle name. 

[May one-six]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Yeah, it is more a case of what he has cost us since then and what we have had in return.

I don't think it's fair to punish a guy or dump him if he  gets injured. Plus, JS was always a class player, so it made sense for us to gamble on getting him back playing. Ideally, he'd sign on with us on the proviso that we sell him if an acceptable offer came in, but it doesn't look like that's happening.

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

I think he's crucial to this current team, their formation and structure.

 

And the knock on effect of being 2nd or 3rd in league outweighs a fee in January (though I do get the sell on fee argument). 

 

 

He is our best defender by a country mile and if we get a 6 figure sum then it will be good business but if he goes for **** all it will be a financial **** up.  As a team we will not achieve anymore with or without him unfortunately.

[i8hibsh]

If you are a winning club, which we sadly are not then anyone who played 100+ times and cost little money would be seen as a great success.   

[Absolute Scenes]

27 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I think he's crucial to this current team, their formation and structure.

 

And the knock on effect of being 2nd or 3rd in league outweighs a fee in January (though I do get the sell on fee argument). 

dont agree with this. He is not crucial, considering that performance he put in against Well and others in defence. Looked like he still at Hampden in that game. 

 

In the grand scheme of things, John Souttar has been looked after by Hearts, not just in the standard way an Employer looks after their employee from a legal point of view, but over and above the norm, the contract extensions, the way we helped him get back into the Scotland squad, How we have built the core round him. The decent thing he would do is to have signed an extension like Hibs players have, so that we could get a fee for him for leaving. 

 

From what Levein said about Lafferty, it was always the case he wanted to go to Rangers when he signed for us - he signed a two year deal so that if they came sniffing we would get a fee - which we did. thats for a guy who had no loyalty to hearts at all, and no connections

 

Souttar, i was expecting a lot more from. it is very disappointing that he doesnt want to try and ensure we get something out of this, rather than juist the standard sell on fee. Surely signing 1-2 years extension, giving himself this full season to actually play football and not be hampered with injuries, is wiser in terms of getting a better move. 

 

Having said that, i'm not a footballer, nor an agent so dont know what is all involved. Its just a bit crap

[Absolute Scenes]

34 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

He is our best defender by a country mile and if we get a 6 figure sum then it will be good business but if he goes for **** all it will be a financial **** up.  As a team we will not achieve anymore with or without him unfortunately.

Its not a financial eff up at all - no one had a crystal ball in terms of how badly his injuries would be. He was seen as an investment by Hearts, a gamble if you like - and in footballing matters it has paid off overall (taking into consideration games where he has cost us etc, injuries and so on). Financially, we could throw as much money as we can afford to him to make him stay so we can get a better fee for him - that is solely down to Souttar to decide to do that. Not the clubs fault. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Absolute Scenes

[Rogue Daddy]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/john-souttar-hearts-boss-robbie-neilson-says-it-would-take-huge-bid-for-january-move-amidst-celtic-and-rangers-link-3471500

John Souttar: Hearts boss Robbie Neilson says it would take 'huge bid' for January move amidst Celtic and Rangers link
Hearts won't sell John Souttar in January unless they receive a “huge bid”.

[Naisys Tackle]

2 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/john-souttar-hearts-boss-robbie-neilson-says-it-would-take-huge-bid-for-january-move-amidst-celtic-and-rangers-link-3471500

John Souttar: Hearts boss Robbie Neilson says it would take 'huge bid' for January move amidst Celtic and Rangers link
Hearts won't sell John Souttar in January unless they receive a “huge bid”.

They shouldn’t even be talking about bids. 

[gnasher75]

This is good from Robbie.  Regardless of what the club is really thinking the message is clear:

 

We still want Souttar to sign a new contract. Either way we will keep him til the summer at least so there's no point making a derisory offer in January.

 

Subtext: if you really want him - and lots of clubs are interested - you need to offer us big money in January and we will consider it.

 

For me that's the best we can do. Souttar here for the season or at least £2m for him in January. I am happy either way as long as he doesn't go to Glasgow.

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/john-souttar-hearts-boss-robbie-neilson-says-it-would-take-huge-bid-for-january-move-amidst-celtic-and-rangers-link-3471500

John Souttar: Hearts boss Robbie Neilson says it would take 'huge bid' for January move amidst Celtic and Rangers link
Hearts won't sell John Souttar in January unless they receive a “huge bid”.

The “owner” has been talking to him, she’s not that anymore and allegedly doesn’t have anything to do with the day to day running of the club 🤷🏾‍♂️🤔?!?!

 

[Phage]

A decent showing in Europe next year is worth 5m? I keep reading the group stages are worth 5m but to be honest I dont know or understand the new Euro setup.

Whatever it is worth, if Souttar helps us up the league it could be worth more to us than selling a long contracted and fully fit Souttar would be worth

[Penrices left boot]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

He is our best defender by a country mile and if we get a 6 figure sum then it will be good business but if he goes for **** all it will be a financial **** up.  As a team we will not achieve anymore with or without him unfortunately.

 

 

You should just give up following Hearts fro your own mental health if you think like that

 

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

If you are a winning club, which we sadly are not then anyone who played 100+ times and cost little money would be seen as a great success.   

 

It's relative, we are a wining club compared to many. Not so to others.