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Souttar...............off soon.....?


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Forever Hearts
6 minutes ago, sadj said:


Why wattie?

 

Nodding dogs , surely in this case the nodding dogs are the ones saying do whatever is needed to keep souttar or tie him up on a contract. Those who oppose that because he is replaceable as every player is ultimately are not the nodding dogs. 


Tbf you don’t have an opinion with any reasoning you’ve not given any , you’ve just posted a lot of crap to say the club are bad and assumed ridiculous things like they haven’t tried enough to get him to stay. 

I didn't read any of that garbage, but I thought you had me on ignore? 🤔

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Forever Hearts
12 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

Imagine they were signing you.  Just offer you £1690 a week and you'd sign for the "banter".

That's really funny.🙄

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3 hours ago, Robbies Tackle said:


As much as he would what would Bristol City with them having 20 months left on his contract value him if they decide to compare any price we sell Soapy for? 

Buy before we sell. 

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The Future's Maroon
3 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Get round the table, appeal to his good side and ask him to extend his contract so Hearts get a decent transfer fee. Is that so outrageous?


I don’t see a problem in this way of thinking, and despite all the pish on this thread JS is fully aware of it and the circumstances/outcomes

 

Some of the pish spouted on Social media and here is hilarious.

 

We are deep in conversations with him, he is happy (so is a certain goalkeeper)

 

Folk need to chill and not bite to tabloids!

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16 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

I didn't read any of that garbage, but I thought you had me on ignore? 🤔

Every time , its almost like you troll people. You are on ignore it doesnt stop your posts coming up though 👍🏻 Also as always play the man and avoid actually making a point with any relevance or reasoning….
 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Future's Maroon said:


I don’t see a problem in this way of thinking, and despite all the pish on this thread JS is fully aware of it and the circumstances/outcomes

 

Some of the pish spouted on Social media and here is hilarious.

 

We are deep in conversations with him, he is happy (so is a certain goalkeeper)

 

Folk need to chill and not bite to tabloids!


😉 👍🏻 Hope you and the family are well pal 

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Clubs the size of Hearts are in an impossible situation nowadays. We don’t have money to burn, so if you sign someone on a 3 year plus deal and they turn out to be rubbish (e.g. Martin and Oshaniwa) then it’s a financial disaster. But sign someone on a 2-year deal, and if they’re good then you have to start looking to re-sign them or cash in after about 6 months, because once they’re in their final year nobody will pay you decent money, and the player can just run down their contract, possibly signing a pre-contract with someone else half way through the year.

 

Of course, in Scotland we have the additional problem of Wormtongue-like agents, whose main aim sometimes seems to be to get their client a move to an OF club as cheaply as possible.

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Section Q

Souttar has to get a solid season in before we get any serious cash for him. Even then I imagine the fee would be dependent on how many games he plays for his new team. I think it would suit both parties for him to sign a two year deal extension.

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19 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

Clubs the size of Hearts are in an impossible situation nowadays. We don’t have money to burn, so if you sign someone on a 3 year plus deal and they turn out to be rubbish (e.g. Martin and Oshaniwa) then it’s a financial disaster. But sign someone on a 2-year deal, and if they’re good then you have to start looking to re-sign them or cash in after about 6 months, because once they’re in their final year nobody will pay you decent money, and the player can just run down their contract, possibly signing a pre-contract with someone else half way through the year.

 

Of course, in Scotland we have the additional problem of Wormtongue-like agents, whose main aim sometimes seems to be to get their client a move to an OF club as cheaply as possible.

One possible way around that is if you sign them on a two year plus another year at the clubs option. That way if they are good you can extend for the extra year then have enough term left to hopefully get decent money in on a fee. 

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davemclaren
7 minutes ago, Canscot said:

One possible way around that is if you sign them on a two year plus another year at the clubs option. That way if they are good you can extend for the extra year then have enough term left to hopefully get decent money in on a fee. 

The player has to agree to that as well. 

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10 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Souttar has to get a solid season in before we get any serious cash for him. Even then I imagine the fee would be dependent on how many games he plays for his new team. I think it would suit both parties for him to sign a two year deal extension.

Why? If hes being touted to loads of clubs which McNamara will be doing then he will know that there is interest at higher wages. He owes us nothing in reality. He may not get many paydays if injuries continue to plague him. Its probably in his best interest to not sign a deal and instead sign a precontract or go somewhere in January. 

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4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The player has to agree to that as well. 

Of course he does. Goes without saying. Both parties must agree to any contract. 

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davemclaren
14 minutes ago, Canscot said:

Of course he does. Goes without saying. Both parties must agree to any contract. 

And a player will want paid more for any option that could be binding. I don’t think

it’s anywhere near as straightforward as it seems. 

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Section Q
9 hours ago, sadj said:

Why? If hes being touted to loads of clubs which McNamara will be doing then he will know that there is interest at higher wages. He owes us nothing in reality. He may not get many paydays if injuries continue to plague him. Its probably in his best interest to not sign a deal and instead sign a precontract or go somewhere in January. 

Read my post again mate. I said "if" we get any serious money for him. Not sure where I read "being touted" either. 

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JimmyCant
4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Moore has played maybe 3 full games? 

Way too early to judge and come out with statements like that. 

Souttar isn't slow either. 

 

 

 

 

How many full league games has Souttar played this season ?

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ToqueJambo

If Savage and Neilson do get Souttar to sign. new contract that will be a major coup and another sign things are changing for the better. It'll be a tough ask though. Soapy's had a nightmare with injuries and if he gets a chance of life-changing money at a decent level it'll be hard for us to compete. It would also be a risk to push the boat out for someone with his injury history. I'd like to think a 1-2 year extension and a promise to let him talk to clubs for a set fee would suit all parties. He's only 25 and that extension could allow him to prove his fitness beyond doubt and establish himself with Scotland (which could attract a better side than mid to top Championship level) while being fairly risk-free for us.

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The Future's Maroon
1 hour ago, sadj said:


😉 👍🏻 Hope you and the family are well pal 

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 

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WheatfieldWarrior

I honestly can't see him extending unless he gets another bad injury and even then that's a maybe.

 

I can't see him going for a big fee either. 

 

I do think we'll bring in a replacement without too much bother, so I'm happy just to let the situation unfold.

 

No cut price deals to the of is my only red line.  We've told them to bolt a few times recently, so not really thinking this will happen. 

 

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17 minutes ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 


Brilliant news pal , proper happy for ya ❤️🇱🇻

 

49 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Read my post again mate. I said "if" we get any serious money for him. Not sure where I read "being touted" either. 


Ah fair enough , yh if we were too get any decent money we wont without him signing a new contract. However i dont agree its best for both parties. Id say its not for him at all , you didnt say touted about I said that because McNamara is doing that. 

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Section Q
9 hours ago, sadj said:


Brilliant news pal , proper happy for ya ❤️🇱🇻

 


Ah fair enough , yh if we were too get any decent money we wont without him signing a new contract. However i dont agree its best for both parties. Id say its not for him at all , you didnt say touted about I said that because McNamara is doing that. 

👍let's hope he signs an extension, then he gets a dream move, and we get let's of moolah for him.....!

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15 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Porteous = Bombscare and a liability. 

 

Boyle = Decent to be honest.

 

Doig = Defensively weak.

 

Nisbet = Can score a few.

 

None of these players will make them anything like the money we will make from Beni or Cammy. 

Porteous is the most saleable 

Boyle easily nullified

Doig push

Nisbet utter shit

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1 hour ago, sadj said:

Why? If hes being touted to loads of clubs which McNamara will be doing then he will know that there is interest at higher wages. He owes us nothing in reality. He may not get many paydays if injuries continue to plague him. Its probably in his best interest to not sign a deal and instead sign a precontract or go somewhere in January. 

That's the reality and he has to look after himself .

Unless we as a club offer a good wage and also take a gamble on injury.

Other clubs maybe able to afford that gamble more readily despite them not having the pedigree of ours.

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31 minutes ago, Ked said:

That's the reality and he has to look after himself .

Unless we as a club offer a good wage and also take a gamble on injury.

Other clubs maybe able to afford that gamble more readily despite them not having the pedigree of ours.


Exactly , people and to be fair understandably for the most part forget its a career for these guys. A short as shit one at that too. I can speak from an injury perspective and if i had a choice like he does and my agent said theres interest and say at least 8/10k a week on the table id not be signing a new contract. Id be waiting til Jan and pushing a move or getting the precontract done and a nice signing bonus to make sure my family is sorted. Right now insurances will cover any risk for him not doing that. I can see peoples thought process of sign a contract and it covers him incase he gets injured again but I just don’t see that being a valid argument nor is it particularly one i think Hearts should look at using. Sign if he has a future not as a favour unless we win from it.
 

As a club we cant do as fans do and live in an ideal world. We have to take the sentiment out of it. 

 

43 minutes ago, Section Q said:

👍let's hope he signs an extension, then he gets a dream move, and we get let's of moolah for him.....!


I think right now thats 20:80 at best , but as above in an ideal world that would be great 👌🏻 

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HeartsandonlyHearts
5 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

We obviously didn't try hard enough. 

What if Hearts announced they tried?

Really really tried. What sadness from you then?

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Selkirkhmfc1874
1 hour ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

I honestly can't see him extending unless he gets another bad injury and even then that's a maybe.

 

I can't see him going for a big fee either. 

 

I do think we'll bring in a replacement without too much bother, so I'm happy just to let the situation unfold.

 

No cut price deals to the of is my only red line.  We've told them to bolt a few times recently, so not really thinking this will happen. 

 

That's the risk he takes in terms of picking up another bad injury because we might then take contract offer off the table then he's in a terrible position but while he stays fit he's in control of the whole situation

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Forever Hearts
7 hours ago, sadj said:

Every time , its almost like you troll people. You are on ignore it doesnt stop your posts coming up though 👍🏻 Also as always play the man and avoid actually making a point with any relevance or reasoning….
 

 

The trolling accusation is much like you, exceptionally boring. Get used to the fact that others will have a different opinion to yours or stop replying to them.👍

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Skacelsid

He will (or has been) be offered a deal within our budget, if he prefers to run down his contract that is up to him. We move on, players come and go all the time, he is a good player but we have done fine without him recently. Prior to injury he may well have attracted a big club for big money, but that ship has sailed unfortunately. Would prefer he stayed and he may well do, but we are building as a club now, recruitment is structured and I am sure Joe Savage will already have something lined up.

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Des Lynam

If he’s going to sign a contract with a view to selling him on for a decent fee I personally think it’s a risk not worth taking for the club. I’ll miss Souttar but he would be replaceable. 

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A player I really want to keep but if he breaks down too much then what’s the point? Big risk on Souttar’s part to run down his contract too when there’s a chance he could fail his medical elsewhere. I’d assume Hearts offer would include his injury risk and he earns more when playing.

 

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6 hours ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

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Nookie Bear
6 hours ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 


:rudiyas:

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7 hours ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 

 

Having been in a similar position in the last couple years I appreciate the magnitude of your news. The recovery takes a long time but enjoy every minute.

Although i don't know you I am genuinely delighted to read your post! All the best to you and your family.

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11 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

It isn’t (outrageous) but if they do that and he leaves the club are absolved of responsibility surely? 
 

It appears you wish to beat the club up for (A) a decision you freely admit they might not be able to influence and (B) one that hasn’t even taken place yet?

 

 

 

 

 

And (C) not being rangers

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Valois No1
7 hours ago, The Future's Maroon said:

Thanks mate, Mrs got the all clear from Cancer on Friday so yes….all good 👍🏼 

Congrats man. Always good to hear of anyone beating this horrible disease. HHGH

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Smith's right boot
7 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

How many full league games has Souttar played this season ?

 

Dunno. 

 

But I've seen Souttar play over about 5/6 seasons. 

I've seen Moore play 2 full games v livi and Motherwell. 

 

I hold my plaudits until he's played more games, signs are good tho. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, kila said:

A player I really want to keep but if he breaks down too much then what’s the point? Big risk on Souttar’s part to run down his contract too when there’s a chance he could fail his medical elsewhere. I’d assume Hearts offer would include his injury risk and he earns more when playing.

 


The risk of a medical has to be significant for Souttar. I understand that the club gets a report (as opposed to pass/fail) and make their decision based on that. Souttar’s report will say that this 25-year-old footballer has had 3 Achilles tendon ruptures, which is an uncommon injury to begin with. I was beginning to question whether he had some form of connective tissue problem. The risk of him having another extended layoff has to be high - if he gets the same injury again, he might actually have to retire.

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JimmyCant

Everything Jo Savage has said about signing policy and strategy and lines we won’t cross suggests that our best offer is on the table already. He’s not good enough or reliable enough to cross the red line for IMO. If he doesn’t want what we can afford, given we’ve paid him for sitting at home half the time he’s been here, then get him away in January for whatever we can get 

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JimmyCant
1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Dunno. 

 

But I've seen Souttar play over about 5/6 seasons. 

I've seen Moore play 2 full games v livi and Motherwell. 

 

I hold my plaudits until he's played more games, signs are good tho. 

 

 

 

 

I’d have no qualms at all about Moore keeping his place and Souttar sitting it out at Ibrox. I wouldn’t actually want to see Souttar back in for that game if I’m honest.Hasn’t played for nearly a month by the time it comes round

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43 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Everything Jo Savage has said about signing policy and strategy and lines we won’t cross suggests that our best offer is on the table already. He’s not good enough or reliable enough to cross the red line for IMO. If he doesn’t want what we can afford, given we’ve paid him for sitting at home half the time he’s been here, then get him away in January for whatever we can get 

That's my view as well - and if he hasn't re-signed by 1st Feb then he doesn't play again.  We should be building for the future and if he's still humming and hawing by then it's hardly a sign of commitment to the club.

I recognise he has a right to do what he thinks is best for himself in a short career but it's equally right for the club to look after itself in the most positive way.  On the 1st Feb he's either with us or he's not.

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way out west jambo

I would simply keep Souttar rested for the rangers game and go with the same back line up that started against Motherwell. Don’t let their mind games anywhere near the park.
 

if we can sell him in the Jan transfer window and use the fee to secure Taylor Moore I’d be happy with that. 
 

this might go against the grain but one of my mates is a physio and he said the other day, once you do your Achilles, you’re already onto a short career. The only procedure is to cut the Achilles Tendon, tidy up the 2 loose ends and reattach. This then puts strain on the whole leg leading to calf, thigh & hamstring problems as well. I’d take the ‘cash out now’ option 

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JimmyCant
10 minutes ago, way out west jambo said:

I would simply keep Souttar rested for the rangers game and go with the same back line up that started against Motherwell. Don’t let their mind games anywhere near the park.
 

if we can sell him in the Jan transfer window and use the fee to secure Taylor Moore I’d be happy with that. 
 

this might go against the grain but one of my mates is a physio and he said the other day, once you do your Achilles, you’re already onto a short career. The only procedure is to cut the Achilles Tendon, tidy up the 2 loose ends and reattach. This then puts strain on the whole leg leading to calf, thigh & hamstring problems as well. I’d take the ‘cash out now’ option 

Thing for me is, Souttar surely knows that, the Hearts physios will know. Anyone thinking about paying decent money for him and to him will know or will find it. He’s injured again now and we’re not being told much about the injury

 

I suppose it’s possible we have only offered 2 years and he wants 3 for security. If that’s all that’s holding it up I’d take the risk and give him 3.

Edited by JimmyCant
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upgotheheads
1 hour ago, Doc Rob said:


The risk of a medical has to be significant for Souttar. I understand that the club gets a report (as opposed to pass/fail) and make their decision based on that. Souttar’s report will say that this 25-year-old footballer has had 3 Achilles tendon ruptures, which is an uncommon injury to begin with. I was beginning to question whether he had some form of connective tissue problem. The risk of him having another extended layoff has to be high - if he gets the same injury again, he might actually have to retire.

 

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Everything Jo Savage has said about signing policy and strategy and lines we won’t cross suggests that our best offer is on the table already. He’s not good enough or reliable enough to cross the red line for IMO. If he doesn’t want what we can afford, given we’ve paid him for sitting at home half the time he’s been here, then get him away in January for whatever we can get 

 

I wouldn't question whether he is good enough, I think he could easily play at the top level, but the reliability issue must be at the top of the agenda for us. There will be teams in England who can afford to take the risk but we can't. There does seem to be a sense of hard headed reality about the management of Hearst just now, and that may be down to Jo Savage. The fact that he hasn't appeared when reports have been that he is back to fitness might be a sign of what's going on in the background. 

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JimmyCant
8 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

I wouldn't question whether he is good enough, I think he could easily play at the top level, but the reliability issue must be at the top of the agenda for us. There will be teams in England who can afford to take the risk but we can't. There does seem to be a sense of hard headed reality about the management of Hearst just now, and that may be down to Jo Savage. The fact that he hasn't appeared when reports have been that he is back to fitness might be a sign of what's going on in the background. 

Depends what you mean by top level of course. I don’t think he’s anywhere close to top half EPL or elite clubs in Europe. He’s good enough for the championship and lower EPL and for the money alone, that’s got to be tempting for him

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Heartsofgold

If Souttar signs an extension, fair enough but if his agent is 'touting' him about clubs then it must be with Souttar's agreement and knowledge, as he employs the agent to work for his interests.  This would mean he's made up his mind, more or less, to move on.

 

Obviously this is the naive viewpoint as we all know football agents are as unscrupulous as they come and only in it to earn their kickbacks and commissions form transfers.

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JimmyCant
8 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

If Souttar signs an extension, fair enough but if his agent is 'touting' him about clubs then it must be with Souttar's agreement and knowledge, as he employs the agent to work for his interests.  This would mean he's made up his mind, more or less, to move on.

 

Obviously this is the naive viewpoint as we all know football agents are as unscrupulous as they come and only in it to earn their kickbacks and commissions form transfers.

Agents flag up their players all the time, even those not yet ready to move. Beni and Devlins agents are probably already sending videos out here there and everywhere for their next moves

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Heartsofgold
17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Agents flag up their players all the time, even those not yet ready to move. Beni and Devlins agents are probably already sending videos out here there and everywhere for their next moves

As I said, naive to think otherwise.

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All this nonsense about he owes up. He signed an extension years ago when he got injured as a way of paying the club back.  3 injuries that could've ended his career. Levein retired with 1 of JS's injuries. 

 

To be told you might never walk again never mind play football.... we honored the chance we gave him to recover.

 

Joe Savage and co are absolutely water tight on deals and contracts so I'm baffled how people know the ins and outs now. Souttar was always a case of enjoy him while we can. If he signs a new deal and has another injury here then that doesn't set him up for life. Sign at anyone down south on 5 times his wage here? Its a no brainer for the guy. Old firm are always interested in a good player in the league its the way they weaken the league. Rangers apparent interest only become paper talk in the last few days. I wonder why? 

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wattie exploited
15 hours ago, sadj said:


Why wattie?

 

Nodding dogs , surely in this case the nodding dogs are the ones saying do whatever is needed to keep souttar or tie him up on a contract. Those who oppose that because he is replaceable as every player is ultimately are not the nodding dogs. 


Tbf you don’t have an opinion with any reasoning you’ve not given any , you’ve just posted a lot of crap to say the club are bad and assumed ridiculous things like they haven’t tried enough to get him to stay. 

do you know what his wages are I dont think anyone on here does people just make shit up 99% of the time :rifle:

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John Findlay
6 minutes ago, wattie exploited said:

do you know what his wages are I dont think anyone on here does people just make shit up 99% of the time :rifle:

Only 99% of the time?

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32 minutes ago, wattie exploited said:

do you know what his wages are I dont think anyone on here does people just make shit up 99% of the time :rifle:


The post I responded to was “hes well worth daft wages”. How is that an answer to “why is he worth daft wages?” Its not…. So ill ask again Why is he worth daft wages?

 

26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Only 99% of the time?


🤣

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