Academy Coaching Development Manager - John McLaughlin appointed

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Gav M said:

my lad plays for partick 2011s (so he's 9, but this is just an observation of the celtic win at all costs mentality) they played Celtic last weekend, most of the time Celtic were leaving 2 players in an "offside" position looking for a quick turn over to get it up quickly. they don't start playing offside till next season, but you'd think, for player development reasons, they would be looking to get them used to how football is actually played rather than looking for the quick goal. it was teaching the kids nothing, and the most frustrating part was that they had some really good wee players.

the Partick coaches at least try to get the kids to play some semblance of offside to prepare them going forward.

 

just an observation

 

 

Tbh, I agree with celtics approach at that age group. 

 

 

 

[Gav M]

10 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Tbh, I agree with celtics approach at that age group. 

 

 

 

fair enough, as I say, just an observation.

I just felt that you would expect the academies to be teaching them how to play football rather than looking for ball up top for a quick goal. don't get me wrong, it's a perfectly legitimate tactic and does have it's place (although not to the point where they are so far offside they are almost in a different postcode) but not to the detriment of actually learning to play the game.

[GavK1012]

52 minutes ago, Gav M said:

fair enough, as I say, just an observation.

I just felt that you would expect the academies to be teaching them how to play football rather than looking for ball up top for a quick goal. don't get me wrong, it's a perfectly legitimate tactic and does have it's place (although not to the point where they are so far offside they are almost in a different postcode) but not to the detriment of actually learning to play the game.

 

The Hearts I recognise is as a team and club could do with less mollycoddling and a more aggressive ruthless mindset....each to their own and some will have a kitten at the mere thought but I don't recognise the culture now of playing and enjoying solely...you enjoy when you win and compete and leave nothing out on the park...its almost taboo to promote this attitude now, but ill stick to my guns thats it's required in sport and life at times....

[scott herbertson]

On 16/05/2021 at 23:48, Francis Albert said:

Indeed. One of my first jobs was as a Senior Assistant Supply Officer. It seemed laughable at the time. There were of course no Junior Assistants. Now there would be manager in the title.

 

 

edited - pointless joke removed

Edited June 22, 2021 by scott herbertson

[JamboAl1965]

An observation only. Where does it say you have to develop the technical skills first. Constantly see players with Great mentality succeed in the game (Paterson for one) and those with great technical ability and lesser mentality not succeed. Maybe that win at all costs is the right way to do it at 9 and then develop the skills in those that accept 2nd best isn’t good enough.
 

Don’t know either way 

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Probably meant there are good players there that don't make it as they tend to only promote the very best. 

Robertson was stuck in behind Teirney as Was Hickey off sorts- no clear path to the first team. 

Celtic are good with youth imo but they generally get the pick of the best and only a few make it, lots more released who are good and improve. 

 

We'll be looking outwith celtic youth but hopefully this change is positive. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you  👍 - but the post I replied to said "no player".    Celtic's required skill/performance standard for all their players  will be much higher than Hearts, so some of the youth who don't make it with them could still make a decent career elsewhere.  Some are late developers too (like Robertson).

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Jean Louis Valois said:

This is a joke post yeh?

Yes 

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, JamboAl1965 said:

An observation only. Where does it say you have to develop the technical skills first. Constantly see players with Great mentality succeed in the game (Paterson for one) and those with great technical ability and lesser mentality not succeed. Maybe that win at all costs is the right way to do it at 9 and then develop the skills in those that accept 2nd best isn’t good enough.
 

Don’t know either way 

It really isnt no.

 

if you dont teach them ball mastery and being brave on the ball at that age you have less chance to do it when they are older.

 

Create a winning mentality yes but not a win at all costs one.

 

The focus should be on technical skill with the ability to understand the game from as many positions as they can at that age.

 

This is certainly what i coach at 2012 level.

[sadj]

 

13 hours ago, johnthomas said:

Can I just check you are taking the piss ?

Youth set up/quick results .

Bit of a humongous contradiction

🤣 Mental isnt it but then people expected our youth set up to be providing loads of players 5years ago as if the setup hadnt been decimated by the lack of giving a **** and then the financial implosion from Vlad. I think we should be producing next season onwards and judge from there the past groups since admin.

[Cruyff]

Remember him as a player, know naff all about the chaps development abilities so will reserve judgement. Let us see how it goes, clearly something needed to change at Hearts, not one sellable youth player through our academy in 5-6 years is a bit of a joke tbh. 

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Gav M said:

my lad plays for partick 2011s (so he's 9, but this is just an observation of the celtic win at all costs mentality) they played Celtic last weekend, most of the time Celtic were leaving 2 players in an "offside" position looking for a quick turn over to get it up quickly. they don't start playing offside till next season, but you'd think, for player development reasons, they would be looking to get them used to how football is actually played rather than looking for the quick goal. it was teaching the kids nothing, and the most frustrating part was that they had some really good wee players.

the Partick coaches at least try to get the kids to play some semblance of offside to prepare them going forward.

 

just an observation

I saw a similar thing with Hearts playing Celtic at U11 maybe 10 years ago.

 

John Murray was furious that Celtic wasn't prepared to let Hearts play the ball out from the keeper at that age group.  He therefore instructed the Hearts keeper to retain the ball at his feet and not play the ball out at all, rather than kick it long, meaning the game was at a standstill. It stayed that way for a couple of minutes, until one of the Celtic attackers finally closed in on the keeper who picked up the ball and threw it to the, now free, defender.  John Murray had got his point over to Celtic's coaches and they finally allowed Hearts to play the ball out before being pressed. 

[Lfhearts]

Am sure he will like the lovely new orange training tops that were on view at Riccarton today, beautiful, will sell mountains of them.

[Bongo 1874]

17 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Tbh, I agree with celtics approach at that age group. 

 

 

 

I don't. 

[Bongo 1874]

17 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Win at all costs you are saying. I like the sound of this guy even more. 

Not for me. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Scotland’s 3 best players on the pitch last night including the most expensive ever produced by Scottish football surely have to count as some evidence in this case. Kieron Tierney, Andy Robertson, Callum McGregor.
 

Would like to see Hearts produce a player or 2 with that level of quality and mentality.

 

Best young player we have had at Hearts was a Celtic academy player as well, Hickey

 

So, Savage has appointed a guy with a track record of young players who’ve been mentally tough enough to get into premiership first teams and onwards to the national team. 
 

Very interesting as well, that the role which Steven Naismith has took up was basically the same role Mclaighlans at Celtic was - “an intermediate academy coach for over a decade. That means he’s been tasked with helping players transition from the academy set-up to the fringes of the first team.” Maybe we are looking to create a bit of a copy of Celtics methods here at Hearts. And we’ve brought in an insider to try and help us do it. 
 

Honestly, there’s worse ideas. Happy enough with the news out of our academy that 11 young players have got new contracts this summer as well, clearly it has been set as a major priority now that the transitional season back to the premier is out the way.  

[fabienleclerq]

I've no idea about the guy but hopefully he comes in and helps bridge the gap we appear to struggle with alongside naismith. 

 

We produce plenty nice to watch teenagers but have struggled to turn them into full time professionals at Hearts or above. Maybe we need a bit more of a winning mentality at the age group. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

I don't. 

 

3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Not for me. 

 

I do even more! 

 

Goals, winning, directness - all good stuff imo. 

 

Offside at under 9's- nah. 

[Bazzas right boot]

19 hours ago, JamboAl1965 said:

An observation only. Where does it say you have to develop the technical skills first. Constantly see players with Great mentality succeed in the game (Paterson for one) and those with great technical ability and lesser mentality not succeed. Maybe that win at all costs is the right way to do it at 9 and then develop the skills in those that accept 2nd best isn’t good enough.
 

Don’t know either way 

 

Agreed. 

Don't think the technical skills will be ignored Tbh. 

 

All we've been told is they ignore the offside rule at under 9's.

 

No one is saying to ignore the technical skills or that is good, I don't think any coach at that level would do that. 

 

Some have jumped the gun a bit. 

Ignoring the offside at a certain age group does not mean technical development is being ignored. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Forever Hearts]

25 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Scotland’s 3 best players on the pitch last night including the most expensive ever produced by Scottish football surely have to count as some evidence in this case. Kieron Tierney, Andy Robertson, Callum McGregor.
 

Would like to see Hearts produce a player or 2 with that level of quality and mentality.

 

Best young player we have had at Hearts was a Celtic academy player as well, Hickey

 

So, Savage has appointed a guy with a track record of young players who’ve been mentally tough enough to get into premiership first teams and onwards to the national team. 
 

Very interesting as well, that the role which Steven Naismith has took up was basically the same role Mclaighlans at Celtic was - “an intermediate academy coach for over a decade. That means he’s been tasked with helping players transition from the academy set-up to the fringes of the first team.” Maybe we are looking to create a bit of a copy of Celtics methods here at Hearts. And we’ve brought in an insider to try and help us do it. 
 

Honestly, there’s worse ideas. Happy enough with the news out of our academy that 11 young players have got new contracts this summer as well, clearly it has been set as a major priority now that the transitional season back to the premier is out the way.  

Those three weren't our best players on the pitch last night. They were arguably our worst players. 

[GavK1012]

4 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Not for me. 

 

...as opposed to Leveins which has seen the most dramatic decline in our team in living memory 🤪🤢🤒🤯

 

Yeah, I think the winning one sounds more appealing to me 😂🤣😅

 

Get him in and the bloody mindset changed get ASAP from bottom to top....

Edited June 23, 2021 by GavK1012
Typo

[A_A wehatethehibs]

24 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Those three weren't our best players on the pitch last night. They were arguably our worst players. 

Can name 7 players who were worse than them 3, Dykes, Adam’s, McGinn, Armstrong, o donnel, Hanley, McKenna. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51199209
 

Anyway threads not about that game, the point is, that’s 3 Celtic academy players who’ve accrued hundreds of games in high level first teams at very big clubs, and tens of millions in transfer fees, and national caps. Would take that at Hearts if we can produce a couple of players like that. That’s got to be the aim. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by A_A wehatethehibs

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Does it not take 10 years to get these players through? Age 9 to about 19, if so Levein has maybe just started the next wave of Scottish talent in his tenure as SFA heed coach.

 

On Celtic and offside, when did onside ever bother them before at any age!!!

 

You cant be teaching kids how to lose, at all costs, bit of a dramatic statement, no not at all costs, but discipline and working hard to achieve something, if that means a few proverbial kicked backsides and tears, no issue with that myself. 

 

You could argue the nations mental health has suffered due to the lack of resilience fed into society these days.

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Those three weren't our best players on the pitch last night. They were arguably our worst players. 

 

[Forever Hearts]

23 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Can name 7 players who were worse than them 3, Dykes, Adam’s, McGinn, Armstrong, o donnel, Hanley, McKenna. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51199209
 

Anyway threads not about that game, the point is, that’s 3 Celtic academy players who’ve accrued hundreds of games in high level first teams at very big clubs, and tens of millions in transfer fees, and national caps. Would take that at Hearts if we can produce a couple of players like that. That’s got to be the aim. 

Tierney was run ragged and offered next to nothing going forward. Robertson had a gentle jog towards the boy who crossed for their first goal and McGregor fell asleep when it came to closing down the goalscorer. 

 

They are three excellent players, but they were nowhere near their best last night. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

Tierney was run ragged and offered next to nothing going forward. Robertson had a gentle jog towards the boy who crossed for their first goal and McGregor fell asleep when it came to closing down the goalscorer. 

 

They are three excellent players, but they were nowhere near their best last night. 

I never said they were anywhere near their best, I said they were the best in blue shirts. That isn’t saying a huge amount based on last nights evidence alone but, the context is about hearts academy, let’s look at comparable hearts academy grads. Slot Jason Holt, Kevin McHattie, and Brad McKay in last night in place of those 3? 10-0 to croatia? Or how about more recent, Andy Irving, Jamie Brandon and Lewis Moore? How would they have done against croatia? That is the point I’m making, youre on about the game, I’m not talking about the game, I’m talking about how poor our academy has been compared to the likes of Celtic. You’ve responded to the first line of a post without reading what the post was about.  

[Forever Hearts]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I never said they were anywhere near their best, I said they were the best in blue shirts. That isn’t saying a huge amount based on last nights evidence alone but, the context is about hearts academy, let’s look at comparable hearts academy grads. Slot Jason Holt, Kevin McHattie, and Brad McKay in last night in place of those 3? 10-0 to croatia? Or how about more recent, Andy Irving, Jamie Brandon and Lewis Moore? How would they have done against croatia? That is the point I’m making, youre on about the game, I’m not talking about the game, I’m talking about how poor our academy has been compared to the likes of Celtic. You’ve responded to the first line of a post without reading what the post was about.  

I know, and I said they weren't. No big deal.👍

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

I know, and I said they weren't. No big deal.👍

You’ve done it again - Do you only read the first line of posts? What’ve you got to say about the actual point I’ve made on the topic of the thread?

Edited June 23, 2021 by A_A wehatethehibs

[Forever Hearts]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

You’ve done it again - Do you only read the first line of posts? What’ve you got to say about the actual point I’ve made on the topic of the thread?

I merely disagreed with your assertion that those three players were our best performers last night. The rest of your post didn't really interest me. Again, it's no big deal.👍

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

20 hours ago, JamboAl1965 said:

An observation only. Where does it say you have to develop the technical skills first. Constantly see players with Great mentality succeed in the game (Paterson for one) and those with great technical ability and lesser mentality not succeed. Maybe that win at all costs is the right way to do it at 9 and then develop the skills in those that accept 2nd best isn’t good enough.
 

Don’t know either way 

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

No idea where this false dichotomy comes from that it’s either technical ability or mentality and some sort of choice between them. You need both. 

[upgotheheads]

"That's in all aspects from technical, game management and mentally how to make it."

 

This quote from Steven Naismith is interesting.

I have witnessed countless players over the years who look good for a few games then disappear into the lower leagues or out of the game. Mentality and athleticism are at least as important as ball skills, it seems to me. The latter is a given, but you need the other two for success at the top level. If they can be taught then we probably need people like Naismith as much as anyone else.

 

 

 

 

[JamboAl1965]

54 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

Im not suggesting you ignore technical skill but it needs allied to the right mentality. My question was really about balance and the narrative that only technical Skills

matter at a young age. Im 55, watching hearts for over 40 years. Give me

a kidd, Whitaker, Iain Jardline and Robbo over a range of more technically gifted players I’ve seen since. 
 

just a view

[John Findlay]

59 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

I suggest you read Pele.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

 

Scotland game last night is a prime example of your comment.

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You only have to look at international football to see that technical ability wins.

 

35 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Scotland game last night is a prime example of your comment.

 

It wasn't just technical ability on display last night. There was game awareness, athleticism, organisation, and the mentality required to get to that level, topped off with technical ability.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

25 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Scotland game last night is a prime example of your comment.

It was decision-making and composure, as well as technique though. Look at the knock down for the first goal. Not a particularly hard technique, a cushioned header down. The majority players can do that technically, get their behind a ball and cushion it to take the pace out. But it was about the intelligence, awareness and clear headedness to make that decision, rather than 99 players out of 100 who in that position try and head that into the goal. In fact it was so composed it had to be off the training ground. The mental side is not just about being strong minded if you go a goal down or make a mistake, it’s about the emotional control to not rush, and make the effective decisions in the execution of the game plan. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

12 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It was decision-making and composure, as well as technique though. Look at the knock down for the first goal. Not a particularly hard technique, a cushioned header down. The majority players can do that technically, get their behind a ball and cushion it to take the pace out. But it was about the intelligence, awareness and clear headedness to make that decision, rather than 99 players out of 100 who in that position try and head that into the goal. In fact it was so composed it had to be off the training ground. The mental side is not just about being strong minded if you go a goal down or make a mistake, it’s about the emotional control to not rush, and make the effective decisions in the execution of the game plan. 

One team last night were comfortable on the ball. The other weren’t. Granted, Modric is world class but he controlled the whole thing like a kick about

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It was decision-making and composure, as well as technique though. Look at the knock down for the first goal. Not a particularly hard technique, a cushioned header down. The majority players can do that technically, get their behind a ball and cushion it to take the pace out. But it was about the intelligence, awareness and clear headedness to make that decision, rather than 99 players out of 100 who in that position try and head that into the goal. In fact it was so composed it had to be off the training ground. The mental side is not just about being strong minded if you go a goal down or make a mistake, it’s about the emotional control to not rush, and make the effective decisions in the execution of the game plan. 

Did it with the side of his head too...

[Armageddon]

On 21/06/2021 at 17:02, GavK1012 said:

 

Can't wait on your 16th post 🤯🤪

 

Cause his 1-5th one was rubbish

[Tasavallan]

On 22/06/2021 at 14:50, Footballfirst said:

I saw a similar thing with Hearts playing Celtic at U11 maybe 10 years ago.

 

John Murray was furious that Celtic wasn't prepared to let Hearts play the ball out from the keeper at that age group.  He therefore instructed the Hearts keeper to retain the ball at his feet and not play the ball out at all, rather than kick it long, meaning the game was at a standstill. It stayed that way for a couple of minutes, until one of the Celtic attackers finally closed in on the keeper who picked up the ball and threw it to the, now free, defender.  John Murray had got his point over to Celtic's coaches and they finally allowed Hearts to play the ball out before being pressed. 

From the time watching my lad at Hearts the system was to play the ball from the back with the keeper not kicking it long.  Sometimes the FB got caught but eventually the system worked.  Both the ersecheeks adopted a win at all costs approach.

[sadj]

8 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

Those three weren't our best players on the pitch last night. They were arguably our worst players. 

What a load of shite. Why because each of them made an individual mistake. I would agree Tierney was awful but the other two contributed more than Marshall , O’Donnell , Hanley , McKenna , Armstrong , McGinn etc , get where I am going with this 🙈

[sadj]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Indeed 🤣 Patterson was ace miiin only player worthy of a cap last night

[Forever Hearts]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

What a load of shite. Why because each of them made an individual mistake. I would agree Tierney was awful but the other two contributed more than Marshall , O’Donnell , Hanley , McKenna , Armstrong , McGinn etc , get where I am going with this 🙈

All about opinions, and yours is generally not worth reading.👍

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Tasavallan said:

From the time watching my lad at Hearts the system was to play the ball from the back with the keeper not kicking it long.  Sometimes the FB got caught but eventually the system worked.  Both the ersecheeks adopted a win at all costs approach.

I dont really agree with the no offside thing. Id have had hundreds of goals more than i did if that was the case when I grew up 😤

 

I agree with it if you aren’t playing as Celtic have been alleged too. I like the play it out from the back. Technical skill is so important to learn at an early age not the cutthroat win at all costs. That should come from competing ,The arrogance , the drive , the determination to be the best and the want to succeed as you get older and challenging yourself then coaches can nurture that win at all costs attitude 

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

All about opinions, and yours is generally not worth reading.👍

Coming from you that is deliciously ironic. Who were our best players last night and why? Apart from Patterson obvs. 
 

I did see you wished the new guy in this role good luck so fair play for that D 🤘🏻

[GinRummy]

Armstrong, Dykes and McKenna were stand outs as far as being pish is concerned. Nobody else on the pitch got close to how shte those three were. 

[Forever Hearts]

40 minutes ago, sadj said:

Coming from you that is deliciously ironic. Who were our best players last night and why? Apart from Patterson obvs. 
 

I did see you wished the new guy in this role good luck so fair play for that D 🤘🏻

Why would I think Patterson was our best player? 

[ericb]

Has this appointment actually been confirmed by anyone? 

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

Why would I think Patterson was our best player? 

I don’t know maybe it would fit your personal mantra 🤷🏻‍♂️🤔
 

Well done on still not telling any of us who were better in blue last night than Armstrong and McGregor though. Spectacular avoidance as always

Edited June 23, 2021 by sadj

[Rick Sanchez]

Boys an absolute ***** and is terrible at his job. I'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really. Strange it's not been announced though. Look forward to hearing from him. I'm assuming with him leaving Celtic we've offered him a slight promotion in role that's persuaded him.