Gaza.

[Cruyff]

21 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The situation as it is, is that Israel has illegal settlers in the west bank. Get them out and you can have peace

It's a bit more complicated than that. Many of those Settlers bought those properties of Palestinians who accepted their money and many of those settlements are unapproved by the Israeli Government. 

 

There's a lot of corruption within the Palestinian authorities themselves who are happy to make a quick buck selling property and land to settlers. 

 

Also, many rich Arabs in the UAE and Qatar are buying Palestinian property to sell to settlers because Palestinians won't sell directly. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Cruyff

[Cade]

The Israeli government *officially* unapproves of the illegal settlements, as they breach every international law there is on displacement/invasion/apartheid.

 

But as the illegal settlers are Israeli citizens, the Israelis send in the army to "protect" them.

 

Then the settlers go out and attack surrounding Palestinian villages and the Israeli army sits there, watches them do it, then prevents any comeback from the Palestinians.

 

It's a joke.

 

Remember that Netanyahu was a baw hair away from formally annexing the West Bank settlements only a year or so ago.

[XB52]

29 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

It's a bit more complicated than that. Many of those Settlers bought those properties of Palestinians who accepted their money and many of those settlements are unapproved by the Israeli Government. 

 

There's a lot of corruption within the Palestinian authorities themselves who are happy to make a quick buck selling property and land to settlers. 

 

Also, many rich Arabs in the UAE and Qatar are buying Palestinian property to sell to settlers because Palestinians won't sell directly. 

Wow....... Daily Mail reader???? 

[Cruyff]

13 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Wow....... Daily Mail reader???? 

Oh dear. Come back when you have something reasonable to say. 

[Victorian]

Israel has always retaliated very hard against Hamas and,  more importantly,  does so quite deliberately in order to deter as much as possible.  But there is a limit to how hard they can be.  This has now escaled to an extent where Israel can't really go in any harder.  Inevitably there's going to have to be international mediation,  which has been way too slow.

[Captain Lithuania]

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

[John Findlay]

27 minutes ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

At last a sensible post concerning the middle east.

[Boab]

1 hour ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

Surely though, when there are incidents in other parts of the world, the UK sometimes gets involved ?

That’s the point here, we know what side Britain and America are on. It’s fairly obvious. 
So to say you find it surprising that anyone in this country can support or oppose a side is, in itself, very surprising.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

A race of people were given a country due to some mythical fairy tale book which proclaims it is their land . The allies in their collective guilt over their inaction against Germany allowed emotion to overtake common sense and help set up the current state of Israel . The indigenous people who lived in this land have gradually been displaced , tortured , deprived of food , medical aid , shelter and their lives. There us and never has been two sides to this “ conflict “ . 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

Correct. 

[Captain Lithuania]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

Surely though, when there are incidents in other parts of the world, the UK sometimes gets involved ?

That’s the point here, we know what side Britain and America are on. It’s fairly obvious. 
So to say you find it surprising that anyone in this country can support or oppose a side is, in itself, very surprising.

I’m talking about the current events. Not what’s led up to them. How can anyone be justified in what they’re doing when they’re killing unarmed innocent civilians?
 

Both sides are doing this. That’s my point. People on either side were born where they were born, it’s not their fault that those in charge want to eliminate each other.

[Boab]

9 minutes ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I’m talking about the current events. Not what’s led up to them. How can anyone be justified in what they’re doing when they’re killing unarmed innocent civilians?
 

Both sides are doing this. That’s my point. People on either side were born where they were born, it’s not their fault that those in charge want to eliminate each other.

I get your point.

On a people level is so sad.

[maroonlegions]

Benjamin Netanyahu says that Hamas and Islamic Jihad “will pay a heavy price for their belligerence.”

 

No doubt they will, but the heaviest price will be paid by civilians in Gaza .....’

 

Israel is making the same errors as Britain did over Northern Ireland 50 years ago | Patrick Cockburn

 

 

 

 

 

INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by maroonlegions

[maroonlegions]

As i said, the bully kicking the shite out of the kid.

 

 

 

[Cade]

Any two state solution is dead.

That horse bolted decades back.

The only endgame is that Israel eventually does take over what's left of Palestine.

It will then either chose to remain an extremist, racist, apartheid state hell bent on constant expansion, or it will chose to be a magnanimous victor and end up as an inclusive, cosmopolitan, multi faith state.

Oh, who am I kidding? It'll be the first one.

 

Israel is not interested in peace.

It wants a final victory.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Cade

[maroonlegions]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Any two state solution is dead.

That horse bolted decades back.

The only endgame is that Israel eventually does take over what's left of Palestine.

It will then either chose to remain an extremist, racist, apartheid state hell bent on constant expansion, or it will chose to be a magnanimous victor and end up as an inclusive, cosmopolitan, multi faith state.

Oh, who am I kidding? It'll be the first one.

 

Israel is not interested in peace.

It wants a final victory.

 

 

And the UN has rolled out the red carpet of "victory" ages ago too. Were are they???

Killing Joke have written songs about the middle east conflicts.

 

Its all about oil and gateways to the middle east. And its never every been about fairness.

 

Israel was bombed into existence by the US and the UK.   

 

 

 

 

 

"Total Invasion"
 

As far as trying to go up
Against the government,
Well, unless the whole country
Did it, I guess..
Now you listen to me..
Just enough water
To en surface the world
Oil baron running the government
So I'll start a war
All votes invalid
Use any old lie
Gonna carve up your wealth
Like pumpkin pie
Only fools won't realize it
Won't be told that empires run on the old black gold
It's a global abrasion
It's conflagration
United nations
It's a total invasion
Terrify them
Complete submission
This is our goal
This is our mission
Destroy your customs
You'll have no say
We'll clothe your women
The western way
It's a ****ing Crusade
A Lesson In Trade
So all you intellectuals
We're gonna invade
It's a global abrasion
It's conflagration
United nations
It's a total invasion
Mexico city
24 million people
Half a litre a day
Is their ration
The final push
The last battle
Eden restored
Man is cattle
We want your oil
We want your land
We'll take your wealth
You'll have much less
We'll change your god
To the bitch goddess.
It's a global abrasion
It's conflagration
United nations
It's a total invasion
It's a global abrasion
It's conflagration
United nations
It's a total invasion

Edited May 15, 2021 by maroonlegions

[Cade]

Please don't ruin this thread with your memes and song videos

 

please

[Sharpie]

4 hours ago, Captain Lithuania said:

I find it incredible that anyone in this country can support or oppose any side in this. They are both in the wrong. The reasons for this tension existing could be argued that it was caused by one side or another, but the current problems are being exasperated by both sides and the vast majority of those affected by the bombings on either side are innocent people who have no involvement, or desire to be involved in this. 
 

It’s sad.

 

That states my case completely. They are as responsible as each other, I  having lived through the times have the greatest empathy for Israel as a result of what happened then, and their strong motivation now having their own State that nothing similar ever happens again.

 

I can understand the Palestinians who live with what they see as a powerful military neighbour who looks in their direction for more land mass, and have the military ability to take it. If it was someone designing a board game it would be the ideal concept but it is real life. Of course one of the primary problems is the old fall back, religion. In the last year I have been approached by more religious people to come to their religion for the answers to my loss. It was suggested I read the Bible. I 'd almost got started but lost it when reading about some old geezer who lived for over three hundred years and begot and beget every female he met and sired hundreds of results of his begettings. Not in my humble sinners opinion the best. handbook on life or origins.

 

So whats the solution, an International force to police the area. I think that may have been tried before,  war to the finish, that would have to result in complete destruction of a race of people,  unacceptable. The almost only solution is to let them go at it until they are tired, just like some Saturday night pub fights, you either get involved and get hurt or stand back and let them hurt each other until its over, of course you well know that after a while and some rest it will all start again. So let them do it as long as they don't involve the rest of the world. They have enough problems themselves. Thy just hold back because they have bigger weapons.

[maroonlegions]

20 minutes ago, Cade said:

Any two state solution is dead.

That horse bolted decades back.

The only endgame is that Israel eventually does take over what's left of Palestine.

It will then either chose to remain an extremist, racist, apartheid state hell bent on constant expansion, or it will chose to be a magnanimous victor and end up as an inclusive, cosmopolitan, multi faith state.

Oh, who am I kidding? It'll be the first one.

 

Israel is not interested in peace.

It wants a final victory.

Another song.

 

 

 

"Wardance"
 

The atmosphere's strange
Out on the town
Music for pleasure
It's not music no more
Music to dance to
Music to move
This is music to march to
do a war dance

A war dance

Look at graffiti
Scrawled on the wall
You know the the reason
Outside the door
You got something
Nasty in your mind
Trying to get out
do a war dance

A war dance

You've opened the pit
Honesty is sick
You try to be honest
Look what you get
The foods run short
And then the money talks
One way out
Your premonition is correct

A war dance

 

 

 

 

 

[maroonlegions]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

Please don't ruin this thread with your memes and song videos

 

please

Its my thread and i feel that it was relevant to the TOPIC of the thread.

 

Its a testimony to your debating skill etiquette ,that you left out, or by  chance  you have  just not got round to i yet,

made  any comment on those memes and the songs and lyrics that followed... 

 

Surely that meme was on topic, or are you  merely taking over the thread, bash on mate.   

 

If my opinions grate against you then its up to you to look past them..

 

I will leave  the ruining of this thread to any troll and piss taker , its a matter of time when they eventually  manifest on this thread,they  stand out like soar thumbs, its their narrative that is the trigger to suspicion.  

Edited May 15, 2021 by maroonlegions

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Victorian said:

Israel has always retaliated very hard against Hamas and,  more importantly,  does so quite deliberately in order to deter as much as possible.  But there is a limit to how hard they can be.  This has now escaled to an extent where Israel can't really go in any harder.  Inevitably there's going to have to be international mediation,  which has been way too slow.

Retaliate! Really? 

[maroonlegions]

Should have named this thread.. "The Bully and The Bullied".. 

 

 

Below pic depicting a Israeli soldier pointing his gun at a Palestinian child is a perfect example of just what my intended topic of this thread was..

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

You'd think, the one group of people on this planet, who'd have sympathy for other people and not do this, after what happened with Nazis are Israelis. But hey, they killed the big JC. 

[maroonlegions]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

You'd think, the one group of people on this planet, who'd have sympathy for other people and not do this, after what happened with Nazis are Israelis. But hey, they killed the big JC. 

Yip.

 

Crazy days.

[Sharpie]

23 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You'd think, the one group of people on this planet, who'd have sympathy for other people and not do this, after what happened with Nazis are Israelis. But hey, they killed the big JC. 

 I stand to be corrected but religion has never been my main subject but was it not the Romans who crucified Christ. They were actually under  Pilate governing Israel and Palestine. Again if memory serves crucifixion were carried out for two reasons one to show the population what happens if you mess with the boss, and two it was a painful extended death and would scare any witnesses. It also proves that outside influences for so long do nothing for peace between the two.

[Weakened Offender]

4 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

As i said, the bully kicking the shite out of the kid.

 

 

 

 

This. 

 

Incredible to believe otherwise. 

[dobmisterdobster]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Retaliate! Really? 

 

They have to. What else do you suggest? Let them continue to launch rockets at Israeli cities indefinitely?

 

[dobmisterdobster]

11 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This. 

 

Incredible to believe otherwise. 

 

Incredible to believe Palestine has a $0 military budget. Those billions of misappropriated aid dollars have to go somewhere.

[Weakened Offender]

5 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Incredible to believe Palestine has a $0 military budget. Those billions of misappropriated aid dollars have to go somewhere.

 

Billions. 🤡

[The Gorgie]

Wonder if the march in Edinburgh today brought an end to this violence? 

[dobmisterdobster]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Billions. 🤡

 

Yes. Every year from foreign governments. What do they have to show for it?

[dobmisterdobster]

2 hours ago, Section N Rules said:

Wonder if the march in Edinburgh today brought an end to this violence? 

 

Sums it up.

 

 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

On 14/05/2021 at 19:16, XB52 said:

It's actually one lot of religious nutters kicking Arabs out of their land to create greater Israel as promised them by their God. Palestinians just want to be able to live in their land, the land they lived in for thousands of years. Unlike the zionists who are mostly European immigrants

 

You are honestly the first person I've seen speaking the truth on this matter.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

I read a book maybe 20 odd years ago, think it was called "The day God cried", can't remember the author but it was about the Israeli army allowing Lebanese Christian militia into a Palestinian refugee camp to massacre them, no wonder God cried.

[dobmisterdobster]

50 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

You are honestly the first person I've seen speaking the truth on this matter.

 

Not true in any way. Israel's Jewish population are predominantly Mizrahi and not European. Refugees expelled from other Arab countries.

[Tazio]

30 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

I read a book maybe 20 odd years ago, think it was called "The day God cried", can't remember the author but it was about the Israeli army allowing Lebanese Christian militia into a Palestinian refugee camp to massacre them, no wonder God cried.

Sabra and Shatila camps. The Phalangists were allowed into the camps by the IDF who sat and guarded the exits as the massacres took place over two days. Bashir Gemayel the Christian president had just been assassinated and the Israelis planted the seed he’d been killed by the PLO. In fact it was another phalangist group that were guilty of it. This was directly after the IDF had ignored UN and USA instructions not to enter west Beirut but had. The direct order came from Ariel Sharon who later denied it despite overwhelming evidence. Sabra is a neighbourhood and Shatila is a camp but not like you think of a camp but a long standing settlement with proper buildings and houses. The entire situation was a very complicated one that the Israeli government exploited and armed the phalangists for the massacre. They used a militia leader called Elie Hobeika who controlled a force of very violent and notorious men who were outcasts from other groups. 

[ri Alban]

They always say trident is a deterrent. Maybe time Iran had some nukes to keep these animals in line. 

[XB52]

5 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Not true in any way. Israel's Jewish population are predominantly Mizrahi and not European. Refugees expelled from other Arab countries.

Totally untrue. Mostly European and lately African. The African Jews are of course treated as 2nd class citizens due to their colour. Palestinians in the internationally approved state of Israel are 3rd class. Palestinians in the illegally occupied territory are treated as sub-human. If you don't believe me, here is an extract from the official Jewish history. European Jews more than doubled the population of 'Israel' from 1948, and that population already had a high number of European immigrants

With the gates wide open after statehood was declared, a wave of mass immigration brought 687,000 Jews to Israel's shores. By 1951, the number of immigrants more than doubled the Jewish population of the country in 1948.

Edited May 16, 2021 by XB52
More info

[felix]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

Totally untrue. Mostly European and lately African. The African Jews are of course treated as 2nd class citizens due to their colour. Palestinians in the internationally approved state of Israel are 3rd class. Palestinians in the illegally occupied territory are treated as sub-human. If you don't believe me, here is an extract from the official Jewish history. European Jews more than doubled the population of 'Israel' from 1948, and that population already had a high number of European immigrants

With the gates wide open after statehood was declared, a wave of mass immigration brought 687,000 Jews to Israel's shores. By 1951, the number of immigrants more than doubled the Jewish population of the country in 1948.

..and therein lies the problem.

The solution is for somehow, the current illegal takeover to be reversed. But how ?

[XB52]

12 minutes ago, felix said:

..and therein lies the problem.

The solution is for somehow, the current illegal takeover to be reversed. But how ?

The USA could resolve this easily by withdrawing financial/military/moral support. Ironically the only realistic chance of that happening any time soon was if Bernie Saunders had become president; a Jewish man very much against the idea of a greater Israel 

[Tennant's 6's]

45 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The USA could resolve this easily by withdrawing financial/military/moral support. Ironically the only realistic chance of that happening any time soon was if Bernie Saunders had become president; a Jewish man very much against the idea of a greater Israel 

Yeah, too bad that he shit the bed both in '16 & '20.

Never had the balls to go against the corporate Dems like Ralph Nader.

 

Although, given the legalised bribery/ corruption that is the Donor system,  it seems like the POTUS has to follow what Wall st, big oil/ pharma, military contractors,  AIPAC say..

 

[Tennant's 6's]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

They always say trident is a deterrent. Maybe time Iran had some nukes to keep these animals in line. 

It would've saved Syria also, as you wouldn't have had the West & Wahabi Saudis using ISIS,  al nusra to destroy that country.  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

As i said, the bully kicking the shite out of the kid.

 

 

 

Correct it’s a massacre not a “ conflict” a carefully planned genocide albeit very slowly happening so it’s fairly insidious 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 hours ago, Cade said:

Any two state solution is dead.

That horse bolted decades back.

The only endgame is that Israel eventually does take over what's left of Palestine.

It will then either chose to remain an extremist, racist, apartheid state hell bent on constant expansion, or it will chose to be a magnanimous victor and end up as an inclusive, cosmopolitan, multi faith state.

Oh, who am I kidding? It'll be the first one.

 

Israel is not interested in peace.

It wants a final victory.

Correct 

16 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Retaliate! Really? 

I know .

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

They always say trident is a deterrent. Maybe time Iran had some nukes to keep these animals in line. 

👍

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

The USA could resolve this easily by withdrawing financial/military/moral support. Ironically the only realistic chance of that happening any time soon was if Bernie Saunders had become president; a Jewish man very much against the idea of a greater Israel 

Yes great pity Saunders wasn’t president for a variety of reasons not just the Israel issue 

[superjack]

I seen this on facebook yesterday, thought it quite appropriate for this thread.

 

[dsk1210]

On 14/05/2021 at 22:38, Morgan said:

Ok, you’ve got one ounce of decency.

 

 

1 gram of decency that he has not taken yet

[Weakened Offender]

9 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Not true in any way. Israel's Jewish population are predominantly Mizrahi and not European. Refugees expelled from other Arab countries.

 

The state of your brain on this thread though 😁

[Cade]

Israel demolishes a major media centre in the Gaza Strip.

It gave 1 hour's warning so all the international journalists could evacuate.

Wonder why they're so determined to blow up press communications?

Wouldn't be off committing more war crimes, would they?

 

[Rizla]

If the Jews are keen on taking property/land back that they believe is rightfully theirs from the past why don’t the ones of German descent head back to Germany and try take back property/land they had before the 1930’s?🤔 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Rizla
Wasn’t finished

[Sharpie]

This thread sums up the whole situation, lots of opinion, lots of bilateral criticism, and the total absence of any suggestion of a workable solution. this isn't a criticism of this thread its merely an observation on every entity who such as United States, United Kingdom, United Nations, do as is being done here, discuss and look for a solution, and turn up dry, meanwhile the death and devastation continue.