" We have to learn to do better against teams that come to sit in and defend "

[KyleLafferty]

1 hour ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Drop the player with the most assists in the league. Nice one.

Fair enough, he can hit a good dead ball. But I’ve never seen a player slow the game down as much as him.

[Footballfirst]

Irving is the only player who actually thinks about the option of making a forward pass, rather than automatically playing a sideways or backward pass. However, he wants to play the "quarterback" role of sitting deep with time on the ball. Sitting that deep requires that you are able to defend, which he can't do. He's neither quick enough nor able to tackle a fish supper.  

 

I would push him up behind the strikers so that he can use his ability to find a pass in tight areas or to have a pop at goal himself. 

[colinmaroon]

13 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Irving is the only player who actually thinks about the option of making a forward pass, rather than automatically playing a sideways or backward pass. However, he wants to play the "quarterback" role of sitting deep with time on the ball. Sitting that deep requires that you are able to defend, which he can't do. He's neither quick enough nor able to tackle a fish supper.  

 

I would push him up behind the strikers so that he can use his ability to find a pass in tight areas or to have a pop at goal himself. 

 

Just as I have been saying.  You're spot on. 

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

13 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Irving is the only player who actually thinks about the option of making a forward pass, rather than automatically playing a sideways or backward pass. However, he wants to play the "quarterback" role of sitting deep with time on the ball. Sitting that deep requires that you are able to defend, which he can't do. He's neither quick enough nor able to tackle a fish supper.  

 

I would push him up behind the strikers so that he can use his ability to find a pass in tight areas or to have a pop at goal himself. 

I think this is spot on. Even in that first game v Dundee he allowed Charlie Adam to drift past him and score. 
 

Overall though, for me I would keep Irving in the expectation he develops over the next year or two in a different system. 

[Cade]

RUN

AT

THEM

 

It's not rocket science.

[chrystaf]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

RUN

AT

THEM

 

It's not rocket science.

Ah but we don't do rockets of science.

[HartleyLegend3]

19 hours ago, jambopilms said:

Top of the league and a lack of confidence, what a mess. 

Maybe don't insist that all the defenders have a touch of the ball before it crosses the half way line. Nothing to do with teams sitting in and everything to do with how slowly we move the ball forward.

Just doesn't make sense, does it?

Unless all the squad are sitting reading JKB 24/7.  there's no f-ing fans in the grounds to give them a hard time. 🤔

 

How thick and robotic are professional footballers. What happened to the days when one or maybe two players had a bad patch.. Not a whole team for months on end. 

Only explanation is there is something majorly wrong behind the scenes... 

[Bull's-eye]

Our practice games currently are proper matches, that's just not good enough to fix the obvious issues.

 

The players will 100% be bored Shitless of training with each other, I also guarantee Craig Gordon is the only player getting a serious workout in practice matches. Boyce on a bad day will be running rings round our defence. 

With no central defenders there is no chance of progress, training must be a breeze. 

 

It shows on the pitch.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The thing is they are professional players, they have played football all their adult lives and STILL they don't know how to break down teams that sit in. How do the OF do it? Teams sit in against then every week yet they still score and win games. It really is a mockery that these players think they can come out in the media with stuff like this and expect us to say , " Ok it's must be really hard if they can't do it ".

[Ex member of the SaS]

3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our practice games currently are proper matches, that's just not good enough to fix the obvious issues.

 

The players will 100% be bored Shitless of training with each other, I also guarantee Craig Gordon is the only player getting a serious workout in practice matches. Boyce on a bad day will be running rings round our defence. 

With no central defenders there is no chance of progress, training must be a breeze. 

 

It shows on the pitch.

Been saying for many years it's the easiest job in the world. Even training consists of tapping the ball back and forward with little runs between cones. Ok there is a bit more than that but when you watch teams train they hardly break sweat.

How would these guy do if they had to go down a pit for 12 hours graft? For me there is too much medical science and not enough running up and down sand dunes.

Get them fighting each other in a boxing ring and the loser makes the tea.😜

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

13 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Irving is the only player who actually thinks about the option of making a forward pass, rather than automatically playing a sideways or backward pass. However, he wants to play the "quarterback" role of sitting deep with time on the ball. Sitting that deep requires that you are able to defend, which he can't do. He's neither quick enough nor able to tackle a fish supper.  

 

I would push him up behind the strikers so that he can use his ability to find a pass in tight areas or to have a pop at goal himself. 

This is right. Always looks for a forward ball and always tries to open up play. I’m not saying he’s in form or that his attitude looks great atm but there’s something there.

 

No chance Neilson will find it though.

[Bull's-eye]

22 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The thing is they are professional players, they have played football all their adult lives and STILL they don't know how to break down teams that sit in. How do the OF do it? Teams sit in against then every week yet they still score and win games. It really is a mockery that these players think they can come out in the media with stuff like this and expect us to say , " Ok it's must be really hard if they can't do it ".

 

They have better more intelligent players, hence their pay packet. 

 

Sadly using those Shitebags as a guide however well thought out is not even remotely balanced or even.

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

They have better more intelligent players, hence their pay packet. 

 

Sadly using those Shitebags as a guide however well thought out is not even remotely balanced or even.

Those shitebags as you call them ( I agree on that ! ) are what we should be striving to replicate. Every season the manager of every team should be striving to win the league. For too long now ( money aside ) teams are happy to claim they are playing for third or fourth. Such a defeatist attitude! Ok they may be little chance of ever winning the league due to the disparity in finances but we should never be starting a season with fourth will do. And professional players should not be coming out in the media making excuses for not scoring against part time teams in a second rate league like this.

Is it any wonder Scottish football is a back water?

[Greedy Jambo]

I would try and sum up Robbie's tactics, but you're not allowed to swear on here. 

[Bull's-eye]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

Those shitebags as you call them ( I agree on that ! ) are what we should be striving to replicate. Every season the manager of every team should be striving to win the league. For too long now ( money aside ) teams are happy to claim they are playing for third or fourth. Such a defeatist attitude! Ok they may be little chance of ever winning the league due to the disparity in finances but we should never be starting a season with fourth will do. And professional players should not be coming out in the media making excuses for not scoring against part time teams in a second rate league like this.

Is it any wonder Scottish football is a back water?

 

They will just outspend each other, no matter the consequences, the last time they felt threatened was when Vlad tried to outspend them, look how that turned out, look how the media and officials turned on us. There will never be change because nobody will ever invest in clubs, it's a closed shop.

 

Us as supporters know we can't even get close to them, no idea why you think the players think any different. 

 

Going back to your point about being professional footballers, players are used to a way of training and fitness and routine, routines they'll have had for years, that's not currently the case. Add that to the fact that they're really not very good and you have what you see once a week. 

[Jambo61]

22 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

How many years have we heard this from managers or players , Naismith the latest.Stop playing slow ponderous shit would be a start surely.

If it was that easy to just sit in and not get beaten we might try it against the Tic and Huns, but on the whole we can't do that, so it is not that easy.......so it is simply a crappy excuse!

[Tatlock]

I have never seen a team at the top of the league look less like a team at the top of the league. Every team in the last few games have looked and played better than us and made more real scoring chances.

[heartmussel]

20 minutes ago, Tatlock said:

I have never seen a team at the top of the league look less like a team at the top of the league. Every team in the last few games have looked and played better than us and made more real scoring chances.

To be honest when I used to see Dundee United on telly on a Friday night I used to think that😂

[Debut 4]

15 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Irving is the only player who actually thinks about the option of making a forward pass, rather than automatically playing a sideways or backward pass. However, he wants to play the "quarterback" role of sitting deep with time on the ball. Sitting that deep requires that you are able to defend, which he can't do. He's neither quick enough nor able to tackle a fish supper.  

 

I would push him up behind the strikers so that he can use his ability to find a pass in tight areas or to have a pop at goal himself. 

Like DTD said, are the management seeing he needs more guidance or motivated to play another way?
 

Your post brings me to Stendel’s short reign. He DID see what Irving had to introduce to his game. I always remember the 1-1 with Aberdeen when Meshino scored a cracker.  DS was on top of Irving that day, not letting him slip in his workrate and always encouraging him to run with the ball when it was on and getting up behind the strikers as much as he could. 
 

Why would you not have a good passer in the last third? Someone who can , and is , always looking to play a telling ball?