" We have to learn to do better against teams that come to sit in and defend "

[vegas-voss]

How many years have we heard this from managers or players , Naismith the latest.Stop playing slow ponderous shit would be a start surely.

Edited April 5, 2021 by vegas-voss

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I don’t think they can even keep up with their own excuses any more. Another reason for admiring Craig Gordon was him coming out and basically saying ‘we are ****ing shite’. Bang on.

[GinRummy]

We were. At the start of this season. The issue is we have had managers who play it safer and safer after every bad result. At the start of the season we often had our whole team, bar Gordon, deep in the opposition half. That’s what is needed when you’re playing slow possession based football. It’s needed because by the time you get up the park your opponents have ten men behind the ball. Fast forward a few months and there are more and more players who barely get over the halfway line. Now we are faced with 7 v 10 situations in the final third. Add the fact our players rarely take a man on and where are the goals going to come from?

[Pasquale for King]

I think the popular term seems to be “low block” just now. 
Good teams manage. 

[Pasquale for King]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/steven-naismith-has-his-say-on-hearts-malaise-and-sapped-confidence-3189099

[TheOak88]

Starting to sound like Robbie has lost the dressing room a bit if senior players are speaking out against our tactics. 

[No Idle Talk]

It's interesting to see Naismith admitting that the players are short on confidence and have become too safe with their passing. That is certainly what I have been seeing for the last couple of months. 

 

The annoying thing is that I think we have most of the tools to break down teams who sit in deep and get men behind the ball. To break teams like that down I think you need a big striker, wide players who can put good crosses into the box, and you need a player who is good at shooting from distance. I'm not sure we have a player who is good at shooting from distance but the rest we do have. So we should be able to break these teams down.

 

My biggest gripe is that we don't move the ball quickly enough. If you pass the ball slowly then teams with ten men behind the ball just shift from side to side and you then struggle get through them or in behind them. That's when the game becomes bogged down and goals are hard to come by. Move the ball quicker and try to create 2 v 1 situations in wide areas so you can get crosses into the box. If we could get a steady stream of crosses into the opposition's box then nobody is beating Gnanduillet in the air, he's a beast. 

[glynnlondon]

More talk blah blah blah meh

[Nookie Bear]

“We’re coming up against teams who are sitting in every week, but that’s not going to change next season if we get into the Premiership.

“That’s what we need to become better at and be more comfortable with.”
 

 

What I’ve been saying all season. 
 

And yet another player speaking out...c’mon Budge. 

[heartmussel]

I’m not an expert on tactics,but these games don’t suit Irving spraying 30/40 yard passes around.Surely Walker McEneff and young Scott McGill would be a better proposition with Haring in behind,thought Haring and Halkett looked a wee bit more assured on Saturday.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Players too safe with their passing wouldn't give the ball away like we do. Too many defense minded players, playing with Levein's " play not to lose " attitude. Going all out to win from the KO puts teams on the back foot. Play like we do , slow and ponderous gives teams time to settle and gives them an opening for a break away goal. We need the mids to be making tackles in the opposition half strikers running into space LOOKING for a pass, wingers running up the wings like they are meant to do and crossing into a packed box increasing the chances of someone banging it home.

Is this too hard for Robbie and players to understand?

[naeclue]

Lots of opportunities come from winning possession and pushing forwards quickly. That's what teams do well against us.

 

I've lost count of the number of times Gordon will get the ball, run to the box looking to get something going, then just roll it out to the nearest full back.

 

Not sure of the obsession with possession football, it's not like we're playing Man City. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by naeclue

[Ex member of the SaS]

Not advocating route one football but maybe just mix it up a little? Get the forwards up there and get the ball to them quicker. Allowing teams time to get back and settled in defense while we make 20 passes around the back four is the reason we can't break down teams.

Exploit the spaces left when they push forward and get the mids and strikers pushing into their box. Any time we have played well and scored is when we have more than one in the box. One striker is killing us, when he has to contend with three or more defenders.

[jambopilms]

Top of the league and a lack of confidence, what a mess. 

Maybe don't insist that all the defenders have a touch of the ball before it crosses the half way line. Nothing to do with teams sitting in and everything to do with how slowly we move the ball forward.

[R1874]

in terms of defending:
 

Step 1. Bin Halkett 

step 2. Get Haring/Souttar fully fit and buy a good CB

 

In terms of on the ball it’s probably get a new manager. Or hope fixing the defence will allow the fullbacks to go forward 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by R1874

[chrystaf]

59 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

“We’re coming up against teams who are sitting in every week, but that’s not going to change next season if we get into the Premiership.

“That’s what we need to become better at and be more comfortable with.”
 

 

What I’ve been saying all season. 
 

And yet another player speaking out...c’mon Budge. 

He's got it in one.  If we can't break down average championship teams, it'll be ten time harder in the premiership and they'll be much more adept at breaking and catching us out.

[jamboozy]

Talk on the pitch please.

 

Thank you.

[Sherbet]

These pesky teams should be told in no uncertain terms to adopt tactics suited to the way we play. Bloody ridiculous teams adopting tactics to try and beat us. Tho have to say I did not see dunfermline shutting up shop on saturday but I did watch the game on a dodgy stream

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Players too safe with their passing wouldn't give the ball away like we do. Too many defense minded players, playing with Levein's " play not to lose " attitude. Going all out to win from the KO puts teams on the back foot. Play like we do , slow and ponderous gives teams time to settle and gives them an opening for a break away goal. We need the mids to be making tackles in the opposition half strikers running into space LOOKING for a pass, wingers running up the wings like they are meant to do and crossing into a packed box increasing the chances of someone banging it home.

Is this too hard for Robbie and players to understand?

 

I've been saying this for a while, that it really shouldn't need around 4 passes to get the ball out wide - EVERY TIME.

[Sherbet]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I've been saying this for a while, that it really shouldn't need around 4 passes to get the ball out wide - EVERY TIME.

Even the brora commentator said  hearts are making 3passes when 1 would do

[jambonian]

Just now, No Idle Talk said:

It's interesting to see Naismith admitting that the players are short on confidence and have become too safe with their passing. That is certainly what I have been seeing for the last couple of months. 

 

The annoying thing is that I think we have most of the tools to break down teams who sit in deep and get men behind the ball. To break teams like that down I think you need a big striker, wide players who can put good crosses into the box, and you need a player who is good at shooting from distance. I'm not sure we have a player who is good at shooting from distance but the rest we do have. So we should be able to break these teams down.

 

My biggest gripe is that we don't move the ball quickly enough. If you pass the ball slowly then teams with ten men behind the ball just shift from side to side and you then struggle get through them or in behind them. That's when the game becomes bogged down and goals are hard to come by. Move the ball quicker and try to create 2 v 1 situations in wide areas so you can get crosses into the box. If we could get a steady stream of crosses into the opposition's box then nobody is beating Gnanduillet in the air, he's a beast. 

 

Yep. As i've said a few times, a lot of these players would walk into a Premier team and do well enough for them. There are a few Internationals in that squad so there's no excuses for the malaise in their general play. Well, tactics of zonal play is probably at the heart of it. It's like they're not allowed to express themselves and told not to stray from twenty yards of where you are. Your point on Gnanduillet....he himself said he's very frustrated with the lack of service into the box. Problem is when you have someone like Mackay-Steven, he's always thrived on support getting up with him. He had that at Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen. Here, he has to take on two, sometimes three defenders and get the ball in. He walks into a brick wall because no-one is getting up with him for one-two's and helping pull defenders away from him. They're standing in the centre circle as extra defenders. This is the reason a striker comes deep to help him, he gets a ball in and there's then a lack of bodies in the box. He can't win either way.

 

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

Players too safe with their passing wouldn't give the ball away like we do. Too many defense minded players, playing with Levein's " play not to lose " attitude. Going all out to win from the KO puts teams on the back foot. Play like we do , slow and ponderous gives teams time to settle and gives them an opening for a break away goal. We need the mids to be making tackles in the opposition half strikers running into space LOOKING for a pass, wingers running up the wings like they are meant to do and crossing into a packed box increasing the chances of someone banging it home.

Is this too hard for Robbie and players to understand?

 

It's the lack of pace on a pass that infuriates me. There may not be an opponent within 20 yards of them, they pass to a team-mate but the opposition read the pace of the ball and close it down. It sets up an attack and a pile forward from their team and if we do get it back, the pass-across-the-back-and-to-the-keeper stuff starts all over again until the next interception from the opposition.....and repeat, and repeat. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Maybe Hearts could set up differently and play a counter-attack style. Oh , wait , how old is Naismith ? And what happened to our posse of speedy wingers ? 

[Sherbet]

Think naismith speaking out after Berra tells us what we already know.. its not a happy camp!!

[leginten]

9 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Yep. As i've said a few times, a lot of these players would walk into a Premier team and do well enough for them. There are a few Internationals in that squad so there's no excuses for the malaise in their general play. Well, tactics of zonal play is probably at the heart of it. It's like they're not allowed to express themselves and told not to stray from twenty yards of where you are. Your point on Gnanduillet....he himself said he's very frustrated with the lack of service into the box. Problem is when you have someone like Mackay-Steven, he's always thrived on support getting up with him. He had that at Dundee Utd, Celtic and Aberdeen. Here, he has to take on two, sometimes three defenders and get the ball in. He walks into a brick wall because no-one is getting up with him for one-two's and helping pull defenders away from him. They're standing in the centre circle as extra defenders. This is the reason a striker comes deep to help him, he gets a ball in and there's then a lack of bodies in the box. He can't win either way.

 

 

It's the lack of pace on a pass that infuriates me. There may not be an opponent within 20 yards of them, they pass to a team-mate but the opposition read the pace of the ball and close it down. It sets up an attack and a pile forward from their team and if we do get it back, the pass-across-the-back-and-to-the-keeper stuff starts all over again until the next interception from the opposition.....and repeat, and repeat. 

For years now we’ve watched Hearts players pass either directly to feet or behind the man. We play the game facing backwards. Making a pass that requires the man to move forward at pace on to the ball probably incurs a fine. It’s static football, howlingly boring and entirely predictable. This season we’re playing it against Alloa and Brora. Where is the trust in our players of quality to make things happen and sow panic in opposition defences? 
 

Shitebag management - lazy, complacent, clueless.

[Thomaso]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Maybe Hearts could set up differently and play a counter-attack style. Oh , wait , how old is Naismith ? And what happened to our posse of speedy wingers ? 

Scoring goals for Motherwell.....

[Sertse]

They're all very good at talking. It gets very frustrating when it's all they seem to do!

[Tazio]

6 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Think naismith speaking out after Berra tells us what we already know.. its not a happy camp!!

I’ve mentioned this before but I’ll say it again anyway. I can’t be the only person that’s noticed RN always refers to the players by their surnames in Interviews. Never first names or nicknames. Doesn’t strike me a great tactic to get the respect of the players. I had a gaffer years ago, ex army type, that did this and he was universally disliked. 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Scoring goals for Motherwell.....

True dat!

[The Mighty Thor]

See all these teams that are coming to sit in and defend, they don't half score some amount of goals against us. 

Like Queen of the South. They sat in 3 times and could have scored more if they'd sat in more. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Would help if we didnt

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

See all these teams that are coming to sit in and defend, they don't half score some amount of goals against us. 

Like Queen of the South. They sat in 3 times and could have scored more if they'd sat in more. 

 

 

Tbf, we played them in on goal within 90 seconds and then smacked another in ourselves. 😂

 

Even the 2nd, although a good finish the keeper sold the cookies. 

If he stays in his goal, they can't score. 

 

We'd help ourselves by not chucking goals, especially early doors. 

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

See all these teams that are coming to sit in and defend, they don't half score some amount of goals against us. 

Like Queen of the South. They sat in 3 times and could have scored more if they'd sat in more. 

 

 

Nine clean sheets in the league this season ?

Just as well teams sit back & defend then. 

[wavydavy]

3 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

How many years have we heard this from managers or players , Naismith the latest.Stop playing slow ponderous shit would be a start surely.

 

To do that we have to have a midfield that is creative and runners. We have neither and haven't had for some time and there are no signs of that changing anytime soon with our signings past and present.

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

To do that we have to have a midfield that is creative and runners. We have neither and haven't had for some time and there are no signs of that changing anytime soon with our signings past and present.

True 

 

I seem to say the same every season and close season that our midfield is shite and it is never properly addressed.

[Bull's-eye]

I agree with every word. It's been the case for years.

 

You firstly have to put the work in, we don't.

You then need an intelligent style of play, which unfortunately requires an intelligent player. 

 

It would also help if we had a proper defence that allows players to concentrate on attacking.

 

In short, we're goosed. 

[Hectormasson]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

“We’re coming up against teams who are sitting in every week, but that’s not going to change next season if we get into the Premiership.

“That’s what we need to become better at and be more comfortable with.”
 

 

What I’ve been saying all season. 
 

And yet another player speaking out...c’mon Budge. 

Not as if these teams were up against are any good whatsoever! Absolute 2nd rate journeymen mostly,   it's us thats got the

 problems coping with this sadly......

[Guffers]

3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

I agree with every word. It's been the case for years.

 

You firstly have to put the work in, we don't.

You then need an intelligent style of play, which unfortunately requires an intelligent player. 

 

It would also help if we had a proper defence that allows players to concentrate on attacking.

 

In short, we're goosed. 

 S*t.. even Bull's-eye is becoming disillusioned ! Things are getting bad

 

[sauchiejambo]

While there may be many tactical deficiencies, what grips my tatties is players who are unable to make a pass to one of their team mates, control a pass without it bouncing off them five yards and then lunging into a sash table to try to recover the ball, to be fair I am crap at football but these are professional players who appear to lack basic skills.

Edited April 5, 2021 by sauchiejambo
Spelling

[Papa]

D’oh! It’s the tactics stupid. You beat these teams by moving the ball quickly and by a centre half stepping into midfield- not by passing sideways ad nauseum. It’s like Groundhog Day watching Hearts atm. That the penny hasn’t dropped with Neilson yet demonstrates his inadequacy as a coach.

[sadj]

2 hours ago, No Idle Talk said:

It's interesting to see Naismith admitting that the players are short on confidence and have become too safe with their passing. That is certainly what I have been seeing for the last couple of months. 

 

The annoying thing is that I think we have most of the tools to break down teams who sit in deep and get men behind the ball. To break teams like that down I think you need a big striker, wide players who can put good crosses into the box, and you need a player who is good at shooting from distance. I'm not sure we have a player who is good at shooting from distance but the rest we do have. So we should be able to break these teams down.

 

My biggest gripe is that we don't move the ball quickly enough. If you pass the ball slowly then teams with ten men behind the ball just shift from side to side and you then struggle get through them or in behind them. That's when the game becomes bogged down and goals are hard to come by. Move the ball quicker and try to create 2 v 1 situations in wide areas so you can get crosses into the box. If we could get a steady stream of crosses into the opposition's box then nobody is beating Gnanduillet in the air, he's a beast. 

For all the times I give Irving it tight at the moment as he has been very poor both him and McEnff can hit a pinger from distance. 
 

Agreed though you need to move the ball quicker and need to pull them out to play through them or get it wide and get good crosses in. We are doing neither at the moment. 

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, sauchiejambo said:

While there may be many tactical deficiencies, what grips my tatties is ayers who are unable to make a pass to one of their team mates, control a pass without it bouncing off them five yards and then lunging into a sash table to try to recover the ball, to be fair I am crap at football but these are professional players who appear to lack basic skills.

I don't know how many times I have seen supposed shining light of the season until recently Irvine give away possession with poor simple passes under no pressure.

[Bull's-eye]

14 minutes ago, Guffers said:

 S*t.. even Bull's-eye is becoming disillusioned ! Things are getting bad

 

 

Not dissilusioned mate.

I like to deal in fact not fiction and tend not to lose my bowels in the face of adversity 😜

 

 

[No Idle Talk]

15 minutes ago, sadj said:

For all the times I give Irving it tight at the moment as he has been very poor both him and McEnff can hit a pinger from distance. 
 

Agreed though you need to move the ball quicker and need to pull them out to play through them or get it wide and get good crosses in. We are doing neither at the moment. 

 

You could be right. Irving did score a nice one from distance at Alloa. It's just not something I have seen consistently from him or McEneff yet. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

You could be right. Irving did score a nice one from distance at Alloa. It's just not something I have seen consistently from him or McEneff yet. 

No not at all , question is , is that because of confidence and trying to walk it in or is it because its not a proper part of their game. McEneff’s first game he was trying a few , Kingsley did also tbf. Smith all are capable

[KyleLafferty]

Simple, drop Irving and the ball will move quicker 👍🏻

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

Would help if we didnt

Tbf, we played them in on goal within 90 seconds and then smacked another in ourselves. 😂

 

Even the 2nd, although a good finish the keeper sold the cookies. 

If he stays in his goal, they can't score. 

 

We'd help ourselves by not chucking goals, especially early doors. 

 

 

 

Kind of blows out the water the tired, hackneyed bollocks being trotted by the senior players week in week out. 

Pub teams, part timers, the managerial greats; Grant, McPake, Crawford Mcglynn, Johnston they've all got our number. 

I'm fed up hearing it from the wage theives. 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

For all the times I give Irving it tight at the moment as he has been very poor both him and McEnff can hit a pinger from distance. 
 

Agreed though you need to move the ball quicker and need to pull them out to play through them or get it wide and get good crosses in. We are doing neither at the moment. 

Certainly you can point the finger at Irving being too casual and slow but in other instances we move it quick. However, it looks more frantic and our accuracy is poor. Our know-how and cleverness doesn’t exist. 

 

We really really struggle to do what you say. Pull teams about to get people in behind often enough, but teams do it to us with alarming ease at times. 
 

There’s too much wrong with us. Too much in the melting pot that has a knock on effect to the next flaw we have and so on, we could discuss it all night. We really do need a big change behind the scenes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jamhammer]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

See all these teams that are coming to sit in and defend, they don't half score some amount of goals against us. 

Like Queen of the South. They sat in 3 times and could have scored more if they'd sat in more. 

 

 

Dunfermline could have been 3 or 4 up at HT

 

[sadj]

25 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Certainly you can point the finger at Irving being too casual and slow but in other instances we move it quick. However, it looks more frantic and our accuracy is poor. Our know-how and cleverness doesn’t exist. 

 

We really really struggle to do what you say. Pull teams about to get people in behind often enough, but teams do it to us with alarming ease at times. 
 

There’s too much wrong with us. Too much in the melting pot that has a knock on effect to the next flaw we have and so on, we could discuss it all night. We really do need a big change behind the scenes. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure it is a huge fix , we def need leaders on the pitch , more importantly we need people to buy into what we do no matter who the manager is. Robbie’s (Rob , Bob , Bobby , James - whatever we have to call him) vision for where he wants the team to be could not be further from where we are at the moment. 
 

We have plenty of talent. Utilising it is not happening however. We look rushed and panicky when we try to break then the support is lacking so its stop pass it back and faff about. Probably the only one the management team has used well recently is Jamie Walker by using him as an impact sub. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

Simple, drop Irving and the ball will move quicker 👍🏻

Drop the player with the most assists in the league. Nice one.

[Tazio]

Just now, Diadora Van Basten said:

Drop the player with the most assists in the league. Nice one.

In a similar vein I saw a stat a couple of weeks ago that Craig Halkett has the most headed clearances in the league.