When are we going to sit up and take notice

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just been told a family friends 19 year old son has died of an overdose on New Year’s Day.

Police told the family that it’s the 3rd overdose in 24 hours in the same vicinity so suspect that the drugs are either far stronger than usual or laced with Fentanyl.

 

Drug addiction is as much of a pandemic as Covid. It’s 2021 and we have 19 year olds dying. Absolutely sickening.

[GinRummy]

Horrible news for you mate. Sorry to hear about that. A friends brother died of a heroin overdose in a ‘drugs house’ about ten years ago and had been dead for around a full day before anyone contacted authorities. Police didn’t investigate despite family requesting them to.

 

All political parties need to get together and work hard at dealing with the problems drug addiction causes. Writing everyone involved off as criminals doesn’t work. 

[Craig_]

Correct @GinRummy. Until we have a grown-up conversation about reforming drug policy nothing will change.

 

Unfortunately while the Daily Mail/Express crowd hold sway over the electorate, no political party will touch it with a bargepole. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Craig_

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

 

All political parties need to get together and work hard at dealing with the problems drug addiction causes. Writing everyone involved off as criminals doesn’t work. 

 

It's never nice reading about a drug death. If we take the approach where we have a 'safe' house where user's can take their poison in a location free from prosecution and where there is help and advice for those who need it and in the long run hopefully it will lead to getting the user off the hardest of drugs. Prosecuting people who do use does not work. The authorities know this. Drug education is the only way of tackling it. Criminalising addicts only makes the problem worse.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Marvin

[Governor Tarkin]

The folk cutting drugs with fentanyl should be hung. They know it plays out.

 

To lose your life to youthful hedonism is tragic.

A disaster for all involved.

Sleep easy, young man. May your family find peace.

 

[ri Alban]

Drug addiction is a medical emergency, not a criminal numbers problem. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Nice to see enlightened answers to the OP as this subject often brings out hyppocrisy on this regarding “ drugs “ when alcohol and tobacco are the biggest addictions and cause vastly more health issues and deaths and we are talking in the 100 s of thousands of deaths . Never mind the violence associated with alcohol in the family home or in pubs / outside . Drug deaths are unfortunate but rare compared to alcohol / tobacco . In fact weed is the safest drug of all in many respects . The harder drugs are clearly not as safe and very addictive so like some one else said let’s have a “ grown up conversion “ about their use 

Edited January 2, 2021 by JamesM48

[Jeff]

Legalise and control it

[indianajones]

8 minutes ago, Gone said:

Legalise and control it

 

Not ideal for a number of substances but it's probably the best and safest solution. 

[I P Knightley]

I've asked the question before but never really got an answer.

 

If it is so plainly obvious to a disparate group such as us on JKB, how come no government has ever come to a conclusion that the sensible thing to do is to take control of the drugs situation through legalisation and control? Treat it similar to tobacco and alcohol with licenses and duty. It just seems so obvious that there has to be something peculiar going on behind the scenes to stop it from happening.

[Sharpie]

It is a difficult situation. My experience with drugs was mainly with the less than respectable citizens. To be fair though some of them had been respected people who as a result of their addiction sunk in societies view of values. The problem starts with availability of purchase, its illegal to sell the required chemicals used, therefore the suppliers are criminals who have no rules regarding safety,quality, or price. In a search for greater profit they cut heroin and cocaine with Fentanyl which causes numerous overdose deaths.  Dealing with the low class addict and I don't mean that in the social sense I mean it in the complete   loss of self respect and basic  personal safety rules observed. I know the cases you are referring to here are young people from good homes, but so were many of the almost skeletal because of lack of nourishment, in adequately clothed for the current weather, and emanating an odor of feces which had occurred during a deeper state of drug influenced sleep. 

So thats the problem what is the solution, programs are starting right here in BC now, additional drug treatment centers, more availability of hospitalisation, but the numbers are staggering, as are the costs. So what then is the next step, probably what should be the first step a carefully considered program leading to decriminalisation of the supply and  high cost for sure, but the present costs of policing alone would be something that could be reallocated for positive reasons. Canada has decriminalised Cannabis, I realise the general result of Cannabis use were not as extreme as hard drugs, but it is a start, as in everything there are those who I suppose enjoy the thrill of doing what is wrong and still buy from a corner seller, but I cannot say I have seen any extreme problems as a result of Cannabis use since it became available from legitimate retailers.

 So as usual I babble on when all I had to say really legalisation is the first way to foster control, the lack of control allows the wrong people to sell, the wrong people selling is what creates the problems. The other key problem of course is it will take politicians to make the ultimate decisions, and as usual costs, primarily will be their problem, and the fear of upsetting voting constituents the other.

[kila]

It is sad how drugs are treated as a criminal issue - purely because the state can't be arsed dealing with it properly.

 

Weed being Class B is ridiculous - what a waste of police time. While it becomes legal in more parts of the world it is still strictly illegal in the UK. Some who are advocates for criminalisation have their paws dirty from investing in growing farms for medical research. Lots of money to be made by the same MPs vote to keep the status quo to protect their monopoly investment.

 

As for much harder drugs - they need a proper support network. For heroine addicts, a shooting up centre where they are given support to try wean themselves off it, but if they really need a hit there is someone there to do it properly with clean needles and a verified product. Sweden is having success with that.

 

Drugs are never going to go away. The sad reality is many rely on hard drugs to get through the day because their life is that shit. It isn't always a case of someone 'respectful' becoming addicted and ruining their life - it can be lives are already ruined from poverty giving little to live for (with no proper support). So suicide or hard drugs? I guess suicide would save police time and be one less 'low life' the state has to be responsible for 'supporting'.

 

Drugs are a social issue and should be treated as such. Criminalisation does help fill all these privately run prisons though...

 

 

[Herbert.]

Everyone knows the risks of taking drugs. It's like crossing the road without looking, Act like a idiot you suffer the consequences.

[Jeff]

11 minutes ago, Herbert said:

Everyone knows the risks of taking drugs. It's like crossing the road without looking, Act like a idiot you suffer the consequences.

 

There's a massive issue with drug abuse in the states due to heroin being cheaper than pain killers at times.

 

Not quite as simple as 2+2=4

[Herbert.]

4 minutes ago, Gone said:

 

There's a massive issue with drug abuse in the states due to heroin being cheaper than pain killers at times.

 

Not quite as simple as 2+2=4

 

Kind of is that simple, it's like the fat argument. Eat loads of crap you get fat and have health problems, Take drugs get health problems or overdose. It's a choice, They chose to do something they know can kill them so I dont get the sympathy when one does die. 

[Cade]

Legalise it, tax it, control the safety, educate.

 

 

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

I've asked the question before but never really got an answer.

 

If it is so plainly obvious to a disparate group such as us on JKB, how come no government has ever come to a conclusion that the sensible thing to do is to take control of the drugs situation through legalisation and control? Treat it similar to tobacco and alcohol with licenses and duty. It just seems so obvious that there has to be something peculiar going on behind the scenes to stop it from happening.

There’s absolutely no point in it being illegal I agree. I’ve never known anyone who couldn’t get hold of drugs of most types if they wanted them. Probably a vote loser for any party who adopt legalisation as a policy. 

[Sharpie]

36 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

Kind of is that simple, it's like the fat argument. Eat loads of crap you get fat and have health problems, Take drugs get health problems or overdose. It's a choice, They chose to do something they know can kill them so I dont get the sympathy when one does die. 

 

I am not sure sympathy is actually the sentiment felt, I suspect some are like myself who think you take the chance you live with the result, the motion I have is what a waste of a life which in itself despite the abuses instilled against it is an awful waste of such an intricate organ.

[GinRummy]

42 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

Kind of is that simple, it's like the fat argument. Eat loads of crap you get fat and have health problems, Take drugs get health problems or overdose. It's a choice, They chose to do something they know can kill them so I dont get the sympathy when one does die. 

Most people make mistakes in life though. If you’re unlucky enough to be left with an addiction due to the mistakes of your youth then I’d have sympathy. 

[Auldbenches]

2 hours ago, Gone said:

Legalise and control it

 

1 hour ago, Herbert said:

Everyone knows the risks of taking drugs. It's like crossing the road without looking, Act like a idiot you suffer the consequences.

It's not as simple as that.  Taking recreational drugs and being addicted to them is completely different and stats will back that up.  The vast majority who are addicted and can't come off them have suffered some sort of childhood trauma.  Do you think our society has been touting the resources in to deal with these issues?  It's getting better, but a lot of users will never have had the support to deal with the issues that helped make them addicts.   Not everyone who has a bevy is a jakey.   

[The Real Maroonblood]

23 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

 

It's not as simple as that.  Taking recreational drugs and being addicted to them is completely different and stats will back that up.  The vast majority who are addicted and can't come off them have suffered some sort of childhood trauma.  Do you think our society has been touting the resources in to deal with these issues?  It's getting better, but a lot of users will never have had the support to deal with the issues that helped make them addicts.   Not everyone who has a bevy is a jakey.   

I’ll drink to that.

🍺👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

25 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

 

It's not as simple as that.  Taking recreational drugs and being addicted to them is completely different and stats will back that up.  The vast majority who are addicted and can't come off them have suffered some sort of childhood trauma.  Do you think our society has been touting the resources in to deal with these issues?  It's getting better, but a lot of users will never have had the support to deal with the issues that helped make them addicts.   Not everyone who has a bevy is a jakey.   

I’ll drink to that.

🍺👍

[Herbert.]

14 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

 

It's not as simple as that.  Taking recreational drugs and being addicted to them is completely different and stats will back that up.  The vast majority who are addicted and can't come off them have suffered some sort of childhood trauma.  Do you think our society has been touting the resources in to deal with these issues?  It's getting better, but a lot of users will never have had the support to deal with the issues that helped make them addicts.   Not everyone who has a bevy is a jakey.   

 

That's the standard excuse. A shit childhood doesn't force you to drugs does it? If anything they should be driven to be better. What would help reduce the drug problem is fixing the education system. I bet most addicts tried drugs in their early/mid teens. If you can get them engaged in something then you can change their life. If you keep them in a education system that keeps failing then they will get bored and find other ways of entertaining themselves through drink,drugs petty crime etc...

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, Herbert said:

 

That's the standard excuse. A shit childhood doesn't force you to drugs does it? If anything they should be driven to be better. What would help reduce the drug problem is fixing the education system. I bet most addicts tried drugs in their early/mid teens. If you can get them engaged in something then you can change their life. If you keep them in a education system that keeps failing then they will get bored and find other ways of entertaining themselves through drink,drugs petty crime etc...

Not everyone who has had a traumatic childhood will go on to be addicts in some way, but those that do will have have mostly came from troubled childhoods.  The resources aren't there to deal with these issues, hence why most fall through the net in their teens.   The majority of people taking drugs are the same as drinkers and are getting on with their lives not bothering a soul.  

[Boof]

6 hours ago, Cade said:

Legalise it, tax it, control the safety, educate.

 

Absolutely  brutal news for your mates, @Neil Dongcaster 

 

Can't disagree with what Cade says...surely there must have been some research into this?

[Maple Leaf]

11 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Drug addiction is a medical emergency, not a criminal numbers problem. 

100%

[Maple Leaf]

8 hours ago, Herbert said:

Everyone knows the risks of taking drugs. It's like crossing the road without looking, Act like a idiot you suffer the consequences.

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Addiction has enormous social costs and consequences, whether it's drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or food.  For example, the cost to our medical services is staggering, and that impacts everyone. There's more to it than 'let them reap what they sow'. 

[Mikey1874]

8 hours ago, Herbert said:

Everyone knows the risks of taking drugs. It's like crossing the road without looking, Act like a idiot you suffer the consequences.

 

But it's the experience and the buzz. Drugs are great. To start with.

 

There is never an easy solution. But people learning to rely on themselves and not needing something outside is the way. 

 

It's the mistake religion made. To look for a buzz or the answer outside your self.

 

Factory mode human is fine. Get everyone to find their own self belief and self assurance. 

[Sharpie]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I don't think it's that simple.  Addiction has enormous social costs and consequences, whether it's drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or food.  For example, the cost to our medical services is staggering, and that impacts everyone. There's more to it than 'let them reap what they sow'. 

   

Sometimes when heading to work I would see the line up for Welfare payments. Later in the day I would be kicking  some of these same people out from under bridges, loading platforms etc as they used their Welfare check purchased illegal drugs. With no money now for more drugs what do you do, either nuisance begging on the street or theft. Sure the guy with money that has his regular dealer and can go to a nice home and comfortably use his illegal drugs recreationally is fine, but I am not sure they are the majority users of the illegal item. I am surprised myself of my attitude now towards drugs and the enforcement of same, but 29 years removed from enforcement I can see the whole futility of that system, there is a better way, but it will take considerable planning, financing and introduction to be successful.

[Maple Leaf]

2 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

   

Sometimes when heading to work I would see the line up for Welfare payments. Later in the day I would be kicking  some of these same people out from under bridges, loading platforms etc as they used their Welfare check purchased illegal drugs. With no money now for more drugs what do you do, either nuisance begging on the street or theft. Sure the guy with money that has his regular dealer and can go to a nice home and comfortably use his illegal drugs recreationally is fine, but I am not sure they are the majority users of the illegal item. I am surprised myself of my attitude now towards drugs and the enforcement of same, but 29 years removed from enforcement I can see the whole futility of that system, there is a better way, but it will take considerable planning, financing and introduction to be successful.

 

There are no easy answers Bob, which is why governments everywhere haven't been able to solve the problem.  I don't have any solution to propose.  Maybe it's like "whack-a-mole", you deal with the immediate  problem at hand.

 

A few years ago there was a major issue in Toronto with the hospitals being flooded by addicts who had caught serious infections through using shared, infected needles, at a huge cost to the taxpayers.  Some wise guy came up with the innovative idea of supplying plenty of free needles to drug addicts.  There was an initial outrage, of course, from some people over tax payers' dollars being used to  "encouraging bad habits".  But infections dropped to zero, so the immediate problem was solved.

 

As I say, there are no easy answers.

[Bunny Munro]

11 hours ago, Herbert said:

 

That's the standard excuse. A shit childhood doesn't force you to drugs does it? If anything they should be driven to be better. What would help reduce the drug problem is fixing the education system. I bet most addicts tried drugs in their early/mid teens. If you can get them engaged in something then you can change their life. If you keep them in a education system that keeps failing then they will get bored and find other ways of entertaining themselves through drink,drugs petty crime etc...

 

 

Addiction is an interesting topic in itself, scientists tend to go back and forward over whether or not it is, or can be, genetic. Certain 'types' of people, and I use that word in terms of neurology, are more prone to addiction. This can be genetic, certain types of ADHD for example. 

 

An idea that people with a shit childhood become addicts could be easily backed up with stats I assume, but how many of these children are from homes where addiction is a problem in one or more family members, which it turn causes the trauma. Addiction may very well be a cause and not a symptom.

[Tynieman]

20 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Horrible news for you mate. Sorry to hear about that. A friends brother died of a heroin overdose in a ‘drugs house’ about ten years ago and had been dead for around a full day before anyone contacted authorities. Police didn’t investigate despite family requesting them to.

 

All political parties need to get together and work hard at dealing with the problems drug addiction causes. Writing everyone involved off as criminals doesn’t work. 

 

Was the person’s initials CR by any chance?

[FWJ]

7 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

There are no easy answers Bob, which is why governments everywhere haven't been able to solve the problem.  I don't have any solution to propose.  Maybe it's like "whack-a-mole", you deal with the immediate  problem at hand.

 

A few years ago there was a major issue in Toronto with the hospitals being flooded by addicts who had caught serious infections through using shared, infected needles, at a huge cost to the taxpayers.  Some wise guy came up with the innovative idea of supplying plenty of free needles to drug addicts.  There was an initial outrage, of course, from some people over tax payers' dollars being used to  "encouraging bad habits".  But infections dropped to zero, so the immediate problem was solved.

 

As I say, there are no easy answers.

It was shared needles (because of their confiscation) that helped lead to the AIDS explosion in Edinburgh in the 80s.

Legalise it, control it but continue to educate and heavily discourage it - including cannabis.  Cannabis (over)use is not harmless.

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Tynieman said:

 

Was the person’s initials CR by any chance?

No mate.