Annual Accounts reporting season

[jdl2002]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I understand that but if they had paid the tax earlier something else would have suffered and thus ahown up as a debt (or greater debt)

 

Not necessarily JA. They may have the money put aside, (i know, I Know), it would still show as debt.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, JamboAndrew said:

Sell more stuff to the orcs and borrow more money to pay inflated wages and interest on ill intentioned loans.

 

So increased salary costs and interest on loans has seen them end up  £15.9 million in the red for the season despite £20.7 million in Euro prize money? Wow!!

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Can someone explain in layman terms how they can increase their turnover and yet also increase their debt when I would have thought their cost base has reduced due to no game expenses. 

Simple. They borrow cash, spend it, convert the loans to shares, borrow more cash ........  rinse and repeat.

 

"During the year, the Group received £21.862m (net of repayments) from Directors, existing shareholders and other parties. This entire amount was made available for working capital purposes."

[1971fozzy]

6 hours ago, allystrachan said:

Great! My ideal outcome is that Rangers win the league to stop 10 IAR then go burst again. So far things look on course for that scenario. 

A perfect scenario 

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Simple. They borrow cash, spend it, convert the loans to shares, borrow more cash ........  rinse and repeat.

 

"During the year, the Group received £21.862m (net of repayments) from Directors, existing shareholders and other parties. This entire amount was made available for working capital purposes."

 

So they increased their turnover but £21.862m wasn't "earned". 

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, jdl2002 said:

 

Not necessarily JA. They may have the money put aside, (i know, I Know), it would still show as debt.

That would show as cash in hand (or bank)

[jdl2002]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

That would show as cash in hand (or bank)

👍

[JackLadd]

The Sevco accounts are only up to June so don't really reflect the full covid hit. Not sure how they are allowed to partake in European football with a team they clearly can't afford. Rules don't apply to them of course. 

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, graygo said:

 

So they increased their turnover but £21.862m wasn't "earned". 

No. The £21.862m doesn't increase their turnover but it covers the gap between their income and expenditure.

 

Their mantra is to spend as much as it will take to stop 10iar and cover it by loans and share issues.  While they spend more they earn more, because they now have a better playing squad e.g. £20.7m of their turnover came from their run in the Europa League.

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, JamboAndrew said:

 

Wow, I always wondered why these businessmen seemed keen to put money in. 8% is a good return on your money. And he will be avoiding paying tax in multiple ways.

 

Only a good return if the principal is repaid in full...

[Malinga the Swinga]

According to written Scottish media I have read, the Scottish Government, and that means us, should bail them out. 

They, and others, have spent millions on signings and wages of players they can't afford, and demand government help to repay losses. 

They shouldn't see one penny, not one ****ing penny of help. **** them and **** the SPFL. 

[Ray Gin]

Sevco with losses of £14.9 million  

 

 

How are they not getting hammered by FFP?

 

[Irufushi]

As long as they stop those other ***** winning 9.75 in a row they can lose as much as they like. Win win. 

[kingantti1874]

24 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

As long as they stop those other ***** winning 9.75 in a row they can lose as much as they like. Win win. 

100%.  They can spend £1.69bn if they like. The seethe from those hooped wanks will be utterly glorious 

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

Sevco with losses of £14.9 million 

 

How are they not getting hammered by FFP?

 

FFP kicks in if you lose a total of €30m (?) over three seasons, as long as the losses are covered by the owner or a related party (as is the case at TRFC), otherwise it is losses of just €5m a year.

 

There are  certain things that you can deduct from your losses such as your Academy and Capital expenditure, so I'm sure that they have sufficient spending in those areas to avoid sanctions.

 

UEFA has also extended the current monitoring period from three to four years because of Covid, so that would also help them satisfy the criteria, with special dispensation for Covid related losses

Edited November 21, 2020 by Footballfirst

[stevie1874]

Any idea when we will be releasing figures, cause I can’t imagine they will be good viewing. 

[Footballfirst]

8 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Any idea when we will be releasing figures, cause I can’t imagine they will be good viewing. 

30 November

[stevie1874]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

30 November

What’s your thoughts/guess on how they’ll look. And will they include our costs from court case?

[Footballfirst]

43 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

What’s your thoughts/guess on how they’ll look. And will they include our costs from court case?

The court case was after year end, but the costs will be covered by benefactors.

 

At the last financial update AB indicated that the club was £400k down on the budgeted position, with a loss of income of around £1m estimated for the end of season.

 

I'd expect us to report something around a  £1.5m to £2m loss.  However, I don't know how much of that will be covered by benefactors or loans by AB herself. Her existing loans from last year were expected to be paid off early in the financial year, but I don't know if that happened,

[heartsfc_fan]

I presume Aaron Hickeys £1M+ transfer won't be included in these figures?

[stevie1874]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

The court case was after year end, but the costs will be covered by benefactors.

 

At the last financial update AB indicated that the club was £400k down on the budgeted position, with a loss of income of around £1m estimated for the end of season.

 

I'd expect us to report something around a  £1.5m to £2m loss.  However, I don't know how much of that will be covered by benefactors or loans by AB herself. Her existing loans from last year were expected to be paid off early in the financial year, but I don't know if that happened,

Cheers 👍

[1971fozzy]

39 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

I presume Aaron Hickeys £1M+ transfer won't be included in these figures?

Would think that’ll be in next years ?

[JamboAndrew]

18 hours ago, graygo said:

 

So increased salary costs and interest on loans has seen them end up  £15.9 million in the red for the season despite £20.7 million in Euro prize money? Wow!!

 

I'd preface this by saying I am no accountant or expert on accounts as per the hibs message board.

[JamboAndrew]

15 hours ago, Jap Jambo said:

 

Only a good return if the principal is repaid in full...

 

I've never met a rich person who likes to give their money away. (Not that I've met many rich people) 😅

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, JamboAndrew said:

 

I've never met a rich person who likes to give their money away. (Not that I've met many rich people) 😅

So you've never met James Anderson...

[Footballfirst]

A footnote to the RIFC accounts is a line under "related party loans".

 

"Mr A McLeish provided £0.5m of loans during the year, and a further £0.5m subsequent to the year end. This amount was converted to shares in November 2020."

 

I don't know if that is a reference to their ex-manager.  If it is, perhaps he has used proceeds from his EBT to make the investment.

[Footballfirst]

FOH AGM delayed until January 28.  They had until 31 March to schedule it, so it's not a huge surprise. The 11am start time goes against their recent efforts to schedule the meeting for an evening when more members can attend.

Quote

FOUNDATION OF HEARTS

Dear Pledger

The seventh AGM of Foundation of Hearts will take place at Tynecastle on Thursday 28 January 2021 at 11.00am. The formal notice will be sent to you nearer the date. Company meetings have to stay within the public health rules to reduce the spread of coronavirus. If there is no easing in the restrictions on public gatherings by the time we issue the notice, it will be necessary to suspend the right of members to attend the meeting in person and adopt arrangements which are appropriate for the restrictions then in place. Obviously members will still retain their rights to vote, but they may be required to exercise those rights by voting other than in person. We will continue to monitor the situation regarding changes in restrictions and government guidance over the coming weeks.

Election of directors
The election of directors this year will involve two places on the board, as two of our directors retire by rotation. Please find here a nomination form and an explanatory memorandum on the election process. In relation to both of this year’s vacancies, specialist expertise and experience is required – in one case in legal matters and in the other case in financial matters. The eligibility criteria have been adjusted to reflect this, and full details are given in the documentation.

The key dates in the election timetable are also given in the documentation. If a ballot of members is required, a secure online poll will be conducted and the voting figures will be independently verified.

If you have any questions on the election, please email [email protected].

Best wishes
Stuart Wallace
Chairman
Foundation of Hearts

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Footballfirst

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

FOH AGM delayed until January 28.  They had until 31 March to schedule it, so it's not a huge surprise. The 11am start time goes against their recent efforts to schedule the meeting for an evening when more members can attend.

 

Looks like Barry is not standing for re-election. 

[Ribble]

On 21/11/2020 at 23:55, 1971fozzy said:

Would think that’ll be in next years ?

 

Correct as the transfer was after 30 June, will be the same for any fee's we got for Washington, Claire and Uche

 

Only transfer income we'd see in these accounts would be if we got anything from Burton for Ryan Edwards

[The Treasurer]

26 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

FOH AGM delayed until January 28.  They had until 31 March to schedule it, so it's not a huge surprise. The 11am start time goes against their recent efforts to schedule the meeting for an evening when more members can attend.

 

I doubt that many, if any will be allowed to attend any sort of meeting by then anyway

[EIEIO]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

I doubt that many, if any will be allowed to attend any sort of meeting by then anyway

Depends on how the vaccination program goes. Wont be a priority to attend unless it's safe to do so.

[Footballfirst]

Hearts accounts are due to be published tomorrow.

 

What's everyone's expectations about the size of the loss (notwithstanding benefactors donations)?

 

My guess would be around £1.7m

Edited November 29, 2020 by Footballfirst

[davemclaren]

40 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hearts accounts are due to be published tomorrow.

 

What's everyone's expectations about the size of the loss (notwithstanding benefactors donations)?

 

My guess would be around £1.7m

I would think about £2m. 

[JamboAl]

21 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I would think about £2m. 

I think AB suggested we could lose £3m because of Covid but previously she also thought the pandemic would last until August so the main cost of the pamdemic falls in the next accounts.  It's a bit of a lottery but I would take a rough guess at £2m also, although a greater loss wouldn't surprise me.

[Neil Dongcaster]

£2.4m

[Jambo-Fox]

I’d guess in 19/20 a slight loss, of perhaps £0.5 / £0.75 million. 
 

The big losses will be June 2020 onwards which will be in the 20/21 accounts although perhaps not as bad as predicted due to prompt action to cut costs (wages) combined with great ST sales & FOH income.

 

Perhaps I’m over optimistic, tomorrow will inform!

Edited November 29, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[eyesandears]

Were our financial results not supposed to be issued today?

[stevie1874]

42 minutes ago, eyesandears said:

Were our financial results not supposed to be issued today?

I’m sure if it’s bad it’ll be headline news on BBC sport. Taking the heat off Celtic 

[Disco Dave]

47 minutes ago, eyesandears said:

Were our financial results not supposed to be issued today?

They were - I was just thinking the same thing.

[Irufushi]

Profit 

[Guest]

Decent news all things considered.

 

[Footballfirst]

It appears that Dave King is selling his 20% of shares in the club to Club1690, sorry Club1872.

 

Apparently he will be getting 20p a share for them so he will have to wait a while for his cash as Club 1872 probably only has around £1m at the moment. King has over 66m shares, so is looking for in excess of £13m.

 

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/18912856.rangers-fans-become-largest-ibrox-shareholders-dave-king-agrees-club-1872-share-deal/?ref=twtrec

 

 

Quote

 

DAVE KING has agreed a deal with Club 1872 that will see Rangers supporters become the largest shareholders at Ibrox – protecting their club for future generations.

King announced his resignation as chairman at the Rangers AGM last November but retained his major stake in RIFC plc as Douglas Park took over at the top table.

But it will now be the Gers fans that have the largest influence at Ibrox after King lined up a move that will see Club 1872 take on his 20.37 per cent stake in Rangers.

The blockbuster deal means Club 1872 – who are currently the sixth largest investors at Ibrox – will surpass the crucial 25 per cent plus one share mark that gives it the power to veto major boardroom deals.

And that means that no one person is likely to ever own Rangers again as the club is protected from the situation that saw Craig Whyte take over at Ibrox following his controversial £1 deal with Sir David Murray.

The departure of King brings an end to his long-running association with his boyhood club as he prepares to sell off his shareholding to his fellow supporters.

King, Paul Murray and John Gilligan saved Rangers from a reviled former Ibrox regime in March 2015 and the South Africa-based businessman has been instrumental in rebuilding Rangers on and off the park.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Footballfirst]

Club 1872 statement

 

Quote

 

Press Release - 1st December 2020

Club 1872 can today announce that former Rangers Chairman, Dave King has agreed to sell his entire shareholding in Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) Plc to Club 1872. The sale, when complete, will make Club 1872 the largest, single shareholder in RIFC Plc.
The structure of the deal gives Club 1872 three years to complete the purchase - with the opportunity to purchase the entire shareholding prior to December 2021 for a price of 20p per share which is below Dave’s cost. Club 1872 will aim to create over 20,000 legacy members of the organisation, each of whom will retain a lifetime vote on the shares held in RIFC.
It has also been agreed with the RIFC Board that both Club 1872 and Dave King will have the right to participate in any impending share issue of RIFC. This means that, should Rangers require it, they will continue to be supported by Club 1872 contributors’ donations to Club 1872 for the term of the agreement and that the combined shareholding need not be diluted as long as Club 1872 has funds available to participate.

Dave King said,
“During regime change and throughout my Chairmanship I have advocated for increased supporter influence at the shareholder level and I provided opportunities for Club 1872 to participate in every share issue that was undertaken. I did this partly to express my appreciation to those supporters and supporter groups who actively assisted me in securing regime change and partly to ensure that all supporters (whether shareholders or not) retain an influential voice in directing the affairs of their Club. It is my sincere hope that “Never Again” will supporters become as disconnected and disempowered as they were at the time of my re-engagement with the Club over 6 years ago.

After completion of my service as Chairman I took time to consider how I can create a final legacy by giving supporters - including future generations - substantial shareholder influence for the first time in the almost 150 years history of our Club. The time to launch a “Never Again” campaign is now.

I made it repeatedly clear that I reinvested in the Club somewhat reluctantly and only because without my support it was proving impossible for local Scottish supporters to martial sufficient financial resources to save Rangers from the impending doom that was unavoidable at that time. In addition I committed to investing further and doing whatever else it took (e.g. getting rid of Sports Direct/Mike Ashley) to see Rangers competing for Scottish titles and in Europe. That is firmly the case now.

As I look forward I must recognise that my family is based in South Africa and I cannot be certain as to what approach they would take to owning shares in the Club when I can no longer influence this. After considering the possible options I concluded that the only meaningful way I could deliver enduring supporter influence in my absence would be to allow supporters - via Club 1872 - to increase their influence at shareholder level by acquiring my shares over a period of time that is considered to be achievable by Club 1872.

I do not intend to profit from my efforts over the last 6 years to save our Club, even though the Club is now substantially more valuable partly through my efforts. I am happy that supporters get this increased value as without them we would not have achieved the full recovery that was completed with the recent fund raise.

I have agreed therefore to transfer my shares to Club 1872 at my historical cash cost of acquisition (which includes professional fees) and to allow Club 1872 a period of three years to build up the supporter backing that will be necessary to achieve this. My all-in cost is 23.7p per share and I am willing to put a pricing structure in place that accommodates 20p as the initial price to be consistent with the present share issue and, at Club 1872’s request, I have included an option for Club 1872 to buy all of the shares at 20p which would result in a loss to me. In my view the shares are presently worth in excess of 50p if properly valued.

I have coined the term “Never Again" as I truly believe that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to make supporters - in perpetuity- the number one shareholder in the Club. Fortunately, the present Board supported me in my vision to see an increased shareholder influence for our fans but we cannot be sure of the fondness for this by future directors. The time to achieve this is therefore now.

Through my engagement with Club 1872 and its present board members (who are all dedicated volunteers) I have developed great trust in the individuals and the organisation. I have personally witnessed the strong benefit to the Club of having a collective voice for supporters at the shareholder level. It has been beneficial to have in Club 1872 a supporter group that is willing to challenge the Club when it feels necessary to do so and is also willing to support the Board when key resolutions that protect the Club need to be passed. Club 1872 did that extremely well during my period as Chairman to the extent that I have absolute confidence that Club 1872 is the right vehicle for me to work with to advance supporter shareholder ownership - both now and in the future.

I would urge Rangers supporters to join Club 1872 today and ensure that the events of 2012 can “Never Again” be repeated."

Club 1872 Director, Laura Fawkes said,
“This is a huge moment for both Club 1872 and the Rangers support. We are very grateful to Dave King for his faith in Club 1872 and the Club 1872 Board and for his ongoing commitment to ensuring that the ownership structure of Rangers remains a very healthy mix of wealthy individuals and the wider supporter base.

As Club 1872 Directors, we are very proud to present this opportunity to the Rangers support. We now need over 20,000 Rangers supporters to take up the baton, join Club 1872 and ensure that the events of 2012 can never happen again. It would be a seminal moment for both Rangers Football Club and the supporters if we could achieve the position of being the largest shareholder in Rangers in time for the 150th anniversary of the club in 2022.
The rebuilding of the Club, largely overseen by the Rangers Board under Dave King’s Chairmanship, has been remarkable - from the position in 2012 to once again challenging for domestic titles and in European competition. Club 1872 can continue to assist with that process whilst ensuring that the wellbeing of the club remains at the centre of decision making in the longer term.

We fully understand the financial pressures that supporters are under in the current economic climate, and the huge contribution they have already made to Rangers this season through season ticket sales and merchandise. But, if they can dig deep one more time and join Club 1872 today as legacy members, then over the next couple of years we can together ensure that the club will remain in safe hands for generations to come."

 

 

[Guest]

Good news for Dave King who will trouser £13M.  Not sure it helps anyone else though.

 

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Dundee united report 3m loss I see

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3850431835005868&id=231801206868967

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

Dundee united report 3m loss I see

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3850431835005868&id=231801206868967

 

Less than expected. Less than previous year. Maybe what they will do each year now.

[kingantti1874]

Turnover less than £4million. £3million i losses.

 

how long till these American guys realise they are throwing good money after bad

[Newton51]

They are in big trouble. Even if fans are allowed next season at a certain level then it will be some time until Away fans are in too!

[ToadKiller Dog]

16 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Turnover less than £4million. £3million i losses.

 

how long till these American guys realise they are throwing good money after bad

The big thing for the Arab owners is they hope to get permission to build a golf course and resort in St Andrews ,I cant see that being easy ,if that fails will the owners stick with the club ? .

 

Much the same as at the other dundee club with Nelms wanting to build on the camperdown site in Dundee with a stadium other facilities most important profit wise a crematorium, last I heard the council wasn't keen on the cremmy but that was a while back . 

 

 

[EIEIO]

13 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

The big thing for the Arab owners is they hope to get permission to build a golf course and resort in St Andrews ,I cant see that being easy ,if that fails will the owners stick with the club ? .

 

Much the same as at the other dundee club with Nelms wanting to build on the camperdown site in Dundee with a stadium other facilities most important profit wise a crematorium, last I heard the council wasn't keen on the cremmy but that was a while back . 

 

 

Would the United owners not be better advised to buy a Fife club if this is their cunning plan?