Will Mowbray prove the hobonomics wrong with his success?

[Craigieboy]

I rate him as a manager. I think he will do well with WBA.

 

But thinking about some comments from my hibby mate got me thinking about Mowbray & the whole hibs fascination with balancing the books.

 

'Balancing the books' was an expression that my hibby mate mentioned 4 times the other day in a ten minute conversation. The past few months has seen this trend develop into an almost predictable format of dialogue;

 

I mention how it's a shame that Hearts are in the position they are in. He mentions (repeatedly) how it's great that hibs can 'balance the books every season'.

 

Now, as far as I can see, that's all they have. That is, to gloat about balancing the books. Trophies & a consistently decent SPL/Euro side seems irrelevant to them.

 

Now, I'm not endorsing free-spending madness that puts you into a lot of debt . But, shouldn't hibs have been thinking of taking some risks with the old cash, rather than raking it up in the bank?

 

And this takes me back to Mowbray. I believe that they could have held onto him for a couple more years had they spent a bit money. A wee bit risky investment in the team & refusal to be so willingly raped by the OF would have been great for them. I really believe that Mowbray could have taken them places. Really, I do.

 

But they didn't.

 

Balancing the books is all right. But success is what counts to the fans is it not?

 

The hibs support are all too willing to herald 'balancing the books' as some sort of trophy.

 

In reality it means **** all.

 

They should have taken the risk.

 

.

[LiamWallace]

would rather have the big cup than balanced books that's what I tell the Hobos I know. most of them are laughing but are worried Vlad will eventually come good becuae we will leave them behind if he does.

 

all they go on about is debt it is so predictable and dull.

[jamboinglasgow]

I think in retrospect, Mowbray was an amazing manager for hibs, he built up a team which if he kept it together and he remained in charge would have done well with that team. Problem is as you say the 'balancing the books' policy while it is wise, if they kept the team together, gave out a bit more wages to keep the best players, and held of from bids from the OF then they could done alot better.

 

But RP stubbornly refused to offer bigger wages to Mowbray, sold his best players under the guise of 'it is lowering our debt' and the hibs fans believed it was fine as there was an endless conveyor belt of talent coming through. However this conveyor belt is slowing really far done and will stop at least next season as their younger generations are drying up. Hibs had the best chance to do great without buying many people in but they were too obsessed with balancing the books rather then building a team which could bring huge success.

[woody47]

I rate him as a manager. I think he will do well with WBA.

 

But thinking about some comments from my hibby mate got me thinking about Mowbray & the whole hibs fascination with balancing the books.

 

'Balancing the books' was an expression that my hibby mate mentioned 4 times the other day in a ten minute conversation. The past few months has seen this trend develop into an almost predictable format of dialogue;

 

I mention how it's a shame that Hearts are in the position they are in. He mentions (repeatedly) how it's great that hibs can 'balance the books every season'.

 

Now, as far as I can see, that's all they have. That is, to gloat about balancing the books. Trophies & a consistently decent SPL/Euro side seems irrelevant to them.

 

Now, I'm not endorsing free-spending madness that puts you into a lot of debt . But, shouldn't hibs have been thinking of taking some risks with the old cash, rather than raking it up in the bank?

 

And this takes me back to Mowbray. I believe that they could have held onto him for a couple more years had they spent a bit money. A wee bit risky investment in the team & refusal to be so willingly raped by the OF would have been great for them. I really believe that Mowbray could have taken them places. Really, I do.

 

But they didn't.

 

Balancing the books is all right. But success is what counts to the fans is it not?

 

The hibs support are all too willing to herald 'balancing the books' as some sort of trophy.

 

In reality it means **** all.

 

They should have taken the risk.

 

.

 

I don't know one Hibee that would spout that sort of rubbish. Winning cups/leagues is all ANY fan wants. Hibs fans have no option when it comes to Petrie as he treats running Hibs purely as a business. I'm convinced he is going to bail soon and by having no debt makes potential buyers easier to find.

[Craigieboy]

I don't know one Hibee that would spout that sort of rubbish. Winning cups/leagues is all ANY fan wants. Hibs fans have no option when it comes to Petrie as he treats running Hibs purely as a business. I'm convinced he is going to bail soon and by having no debt makes potential buyers easier to find.

 

Does RP own hibs like(say)?

 

.

[soulboy]

Any team that has some success or tries to grow soon encounters some major problems.

 

1) Bigger clubs can afford to pay (substantially) higher wages to players.

2) Trying to pay higher wages to players sooner or later forces the aspiring club into loss-making & cash-flow problems meaning that selling players is the natural quick solution to the problem and the process moves into reverse gear.

3) A team like Hearts / Hibs / Aberdeen etc. that's achieved something often appears to rest on it's laurels or maybe can't realistically achieve anything more whilst at the same time the appetite and expectations of supporters grows meaning a huge increase in frustration and again the mood of the club changes from positive to negative.

4) players can realistically be persuaded that they have achieved as much as they can realistically expect at their current club and a move up the ladder will bring better prospects and salary - this also creates negative tension at their current club.

 

Hearts have experienced this twice in the last 10 years.

[paulah]

Think he's a brill manager,and i also think he'l do well in Premiership

[Harry Ford]

Any team that has some success or tries to grow soon encounters some major problems.

 

1) Bigger clubs can afford to pay (substantially) higher wages to players.

2) Trying to pay higher wages to players sooner or later forces the aspiring club into loss-making & cash-flow problems meaning that selling players is the natural quick solution to the problem and the process moves into reverse gear.

3) A team like Hearts / Hibs / Aberdeen etc. that's achieved something often appears to rest on it's laurels or maybe can't realistically achieve anything more whilst at the same time the appetite and expectations of supporters grows meaning a huge increase in frustration and again the mood of the club changes from negative to positive.

4) players can realistically be persuaded that they have achieved as much as they can realistically expect at their current club and a move up the ladder will bring better prospects and salary - this also creates negative tension at their current club.

 

Hearts have experienced this twice in the last 10 years.

 

Good post. You have totally hit the nail on the head. Teams like Hibs and Hearts are limited in the calibre of player they can attract because the OF will always be a more attractive proposition, just as the OF are limited because the Premiership is more attractive proposition.

 

I do think that ultimately, no matter how much money is flung at either club, if a bigger club comes calling then managers and players will do all that they can to leave. All the selling clubs can do is make sure they can get as much compensation as possible and hope to grow gradually like that.

 

I think you put it better than me though.

[maroonedinoz]

On pitch success v financial success

 

I think really, its all a matter of ........balance;)

[soulboy]

Good post. You have totally hit the nail on the head. Teams like Hibs and Hearts are limited in the calibre of player they can attract because the OF will always be a more attractive proposition, just as the OF are limited because the Premiership is more attractive proposition.

 

I do think that ultimately, no matter how much money is flung at either club, if a bigger club comes calling then managers and players will do all that they can to leave. All the selling clubs can do is make sure they can get as much compensation as possible and hope to grow gradually like that.

 

I think you put it better than me though.

 

Sunderland taking Craig Gordon, Spurs taking Hutton, Villa taking Petrov & Maloney shows that even medium sized premiership clubs can take the best of players from ANY SPL club, in the champions league even the best french, portuguese and dutch clubs are becoming little more than feeder clubs for the likes of the big spanish & english clubs.

 

At SPL level just look at how many of our players and coaches are going to championship clubs because the money, competition and crowds in that league are as good or better than they can expect anywhere outside of Parkhead or Ibrox.

[slashishere]

we've been blessed with goalkeepers over the past 20 odd years, hibs have been blessed with a manager that we can only dream of now.

I think mowbary will go on to be one of the most succesfull english managers in some time.

but then again im ****ed................

[flecktimus]

There was an interesting article written in last years EN, where the Journo stated, that with the expansion of population in South east and stagnation in the west, there could be an argument put forward that one of the Edinburgh teams could kick on and possibly challenge the OF.

 

When you actually look at the Football situation in Edinburgh, you would think that the Hobos hour has arrived.

 

As things stand we are going back faster than a boxer who has just been punched in the coupon by George Forman.

 

We are in a complete mess at the moment and even if its is Vlads intention to make us the team to challenge, it will take years to undo the damage that?s has been done and our new stand will probably never take place because of the debt and cost, so we cannot start to raise the revenues necessary

 

Now the Hobos are apparently debt free, have planning permission for a new stand, that can be built for a fraction of our costs, so on the face of it look a better bet than us.

 

So it does beg the question what are the Hobos waiting for?

 

If the thread on Vermin.net from yesterday is anything to go by the natives are starting to get a little restless.

 

So is it a case of the Hobo boardroom being completely paralyzed by balancing the books or have they just accepted there position in Scottish football and decided to keep there wallets fat.

[HappyClapper]

when it comes to Petrie as he treats running Hibs purely as a business.

 

 

Oh the irony!

[Le Chat]

Good post. You have totally hit the nail on the head. Teams like Hibs and Hearts are limited in the calibre of player they can attract because the OF will always be a more attractive proposition, just as the OF are limited because the Premiership is more attractive proposition.

 

I do think that ultimately, no matter how much money is flung at either club, if a bigger club comes calling then managers and players will do all that they can to leave. All the selling clubs can do is make sure they can get as much compensation as possible and hope to grow gradually like that.

 

I think you put it better than me though.

 

You're owe me a fiver.

[Harry Ford]

You're owe me a fiver.

 

Whit fur?

[Le Chat]

Whit fur?

 

At the start of last season you bet me a fiver that burn-face Benji would score more than any Hearts striker that season.

 

I don't know how many the ugly fecker actually got but I do know that it wasn't more than the 14 Velicka got.

 

And to think, I only took the bet out of sheer bravado.

[N User]

Will Mowbray succeed?

He did ok for Hibs but ultimately his team talked the talk but didn't really walk the walk.

He's done well with WBA but they were already well built and favourites for the premiership before he got there.

I'd say he still has a lot to prove.

 

If he goes into the premiership with a "we play football the way it was meant to be played" attitude - he'll get relegated. Ask Sammy Lee.

[Harry Ford]

At the start of last season you bet me a fiver that burn-face Benji would score more than any Hearts striker that season.

 

I don't know how many the ugly fecker actually got but I do know that it wasn't more than the 14 Velicka got.

 

And to think, I only took the bet out of sheer bravado.

 

Velicka isn't a Hearts striker, but I'll stand the bet because he only scored one, and even Clum beat that.

 

How do you want your fiver - do you know Andy68? I can pass it on to him, or if you want I'll stick it to charity and get him to verify it's done.

[Le Chat]

Velicka isn't a Hearts striker, but I'll stand the bet because he only scored one, and even Clum beat that.

 

How do you want your fiver - do you know Andy68? I can pass it on to him, or if you want I'll stick it to charity and get him to verify it's done.

 

The Sally Army will be delighted with your contribution

[Harry Ford]

The Sally Army will be delighted with your contribution

 

No bother. I'll give Andy a shout and he can verify it's done.

 

Edit: Here's the donation

 

Please print a copy for your records

 

Dear Mr Fairnie

Many thanks for your generous gift as detailed below:

 

donation id:

 

2152666830003251150308

 

date:

 

05 July 2008 03:04 PM (GMT)

 

 

I've just edited out personal details, but job done.

 

name and address:

 

Mr Matthew Fairnie

 

 

donation:

 

5 GBP

 

card type:

 

Maestro

 

 

 

The Salvation Army United Kingdom Territory with The Republic of Ireland

101 Newington Causeway

London

SE1 6BN

 

tel: 020 7367 4819

 

email: [email protected]

website: http://www.salvationarmy.org.uk

 

Best Wishes,

 

The Salvation Army

[Le Chat]

[ToadKiller Dog]

Will Mowbray succeed?

He did ok for Hibs but ultimately his team talked the talk but didn't really walk the walk.

He's done well with WBA but they were already well built and favourites for the premiership before he got there.

I'd say he still has a lot to prove.

 

If he goes into the premiership with a "we play football the way it was meant to be played" attitude - he'll get relegated. Ask Sammy Lee.

 

Tend to agree with that ,always thought Mowbray's hobos were always suspect at the back ,i did see the same with West Brom at times but they had the attack to cancel that out,He is a decent manager but if he fails to keep West brom up and they struggle,his rise could be stalled.

I think it is a very difficult league for managers who take a team up to the EPL as they often only get the one chance or the bigger teams loose interest and the manager quick becomes a standard championship manager,with little room to move up a level..

[Canadianjambo]

No bother. I'll give Andy a shout and he can verify it's done.

 

Edit: Here's the donation

 

Please print a copy for your records

 

Dear Mr Fairnie

Many thanks for your generous gift as detailed below:

 

donation id:

 

2152666830003251150308

 

date:

 

05 July 2008 03:04 PM (GMT)

 

 

I've just edited out personal details, but job done.

 

name and address:

 

Mr Matthew Fairnie

 

 

donation:

 

5 GBP

 

card type:

 

Maestro

 

 

 

The Salvation Army United Kingdom Territory with The Republic of Ireland

101 Newington Causeway

London

SE1 6BN

 

tel: 020 7367 4819

 

email: [email protected]

website: http://www.salvationarmy.org.uk

 

Best Wishes,

 

The Salvation Army

 

 

"Salvation Army! Salvation Army! Put a nickel in the drum, save another drunken bum!"

[Canadianjambo]

 

 

Boy! I am sooo feeling the love in the air!!

[tyniearrms]

Boy! I am sooo feeling the love in the air!!

 

john paul young?

[Jarhead]

Any team that has some success or tries to grow soon encounters some major problems.

 

1) Bigger clubs can afford to pay (substantially) higher wages to players.

2) Trying to pay higher wages to players sooner or later forces the aspiring club into loss-making & cash-flow problems meaning that selling players is the natural quick solution to the problem and the process moves into reverse gear.

3) A team like Hearts / Hibs / Aberdeen etc. that's achieved something often appears to rest on it's laurels or maybe can't realistically achieve anything more whilst at the same time the appetite and expectations of supporters grows meaning a huge increase in frustration and again the mood of the club changes from positive to negative.

4) players can realistically be persuaded that they have achieved as much as they can realistically expect at their current club and a move up the ladder will bring better prospects and salary - this also creates negative tension at their current club.

 

Hearts have experienced this twice in the last 10 years.

 

100% spot on with that.

Even if clubs like hibs trebled or quadroupled their wage structure it would still not come close to what the OF pay.

And if it's not money that seals the deal throw in trophies, international caps and the Champions League.

That's what we, hibs and the codheads have to compete against.

The best any of us can realistically hope for is that we get the maximum value from the OF when they pinch our players.

Vlad has a sucess rate of 1 in 4 on that front so maybe when it comes to balancing the books Petrie is doing the better job.

[Dirk Diggler]

Mowbray was the best thing to happen to H*bs in the last 30 years or so. Petrie got a big break when he appointed him. The rest of Scottish football bought into the 'flair' thing and H*bs have been able to command way over the odds for some very average football players. (?4.4 million for Broonaldo ffs).

 

Yep, the best thing to happen to them for some considerable time and his team still acheived the square root of feck all.

[jamboinglasgow]

Mowbray was the best thing to happen to H*bs in the last 30 years or so. Petrie got a big break when he appointed him. The rest of Scottish football bought into the 'flair' thing and H*bs have been able to command way over the odds for some very average football players. (?4.4 million for Broonaldo ffs).

 

Yep, the best thing to happen to them for some considerable time and his team still acheived the square root of feck all.

 

think the loss of Mowbray and John Park cost hibs alot as those were the ones who meant they were able to lower costs with great looking youngsters. Donald Park may do something but as I said earlier their youth ranks are looking barren at U17 and U15 (and possibly younger) while we are brimming with great Scottish talent at those ages.