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jager man

Hearts's relationship with other clubs

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jager man
30 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you name the last time this actually happened, who have we actually bought from a lower level club, never mind a success this century? Mulraney in terms of profit was a success, but we won a watch there. I just don’t think it happens nowadays because there are no secrets or frankly good players down there these days. The big clubs hoard that many players at youth level now you’re more likely to get their cast offs, like Hickey than sign a Wighton. Practically every team in the top league has ex OF players, Hibs seem to thrive on getting our cast offs for example (Cummings/Shaw/Doig). 

Agree that we haven't had many lately but that's mainly down to levein policy of buying guff from abroad or England. There will definitely be players we are interested in in the next few years. We have missed a number of players in the last few years who with a better scouting department  could have signed before they got a move. What about nisbet or McGinn who went to hibs, Taylor to Celtic, Christie to Celtic, shankland to united, Ferguson to Aberdeen. 

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Rudy T
30 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Sorry but the vindictiveness is our right and reserve as fans. It should not be the way forward for the club. Seems like people are all raging because a social media or marketing person at Hearts jumped on the "Only Hearts" bandwagon, and so they all feel betrayed. I doubt this "Only Hearts" tagline was ever sanctioned by the Board. People are being far too prickly and narrow-minded about all this.  

 

If the CEO has rebuilt some bridges, banked some favours from all those clubs and committees you list, and all for the cost of sending our 2nd/3rd choice GK out on loan for a week then sorry, but you are all wrong, and that is an absolute blinder of a tiny little bit of business...

 

And do you think that's the case? They will only view it as us stepping back into line and jumping to their tune. Scottish football clubs and it's puppet masters have shown their hand during this crisis. It's made us look weak is all it's done.

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Spellczech
1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

And do you think that's the case? They will only view it as us stepping back into line and jumping to their tune. Scottish football clubs and it's puppet masters have shown their hand during this crisis. It's made us look weak is all it's done.

Yep but it is for us the fans to bear that grudge. I don't want the club to do it too. I want the club to do what is best for the club, not cut off its own nose to spite its face. We took a kicking over the summer from many fronts, but this is a revenge mission for the fans, to deny them the maroon pound...The club must steer a different course.

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oi oi

The club will need to remain professional - it doesn't suit anyone to end up a pariah.  Once away fans are permitted back into stadiums I'll continue to go support the team but won't spend any cash inside on food, drink, programmes, raffles etc.  Which is pretty much what I've been doing for the past 5 years or so anyway.

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Saint Jambo
1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Yep but it is for us the fans to bear that grudge. I don't want the club to do it too. I want the club to do what is best for the club, not cut off its own nose to spite its face. We took a kicking over the summer from many fronts, but this is a revenge mission for the fans, to deny them the maroon pound...The club must steer a different course.

 

Do you think doing what is best for the club includes trying to keep their customers happy?

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qferryjam
2 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

Everyone sees this in their own way, I just think people are making way too much of this.I just don't see it as that big a deal

Fair play ,but personally  Even if it had been hibs it wouldn’t have bothered me as much , something else to have a dig at them with but helping out that club leaves a really bad taste 

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Pasquale for King
42 minutes ago, jager man said:

Agree that we haven't had many lately but that's mainly down to levein policy of buying guff from abroad or England. There will definitely be players we are interested in in the next few years. We have missed a number of players in the last few years who with a better scouting department  could have signed before they got a move. What about nisbet or McGinn who went to hibs, Taylor to Celtic, Christie to Celtic, shankland to united, Ferguson to Aberdeen. 

That’s not from lower league clubs but yes i take that on board, that’s not that many though in the grand scheme where we signed about a hundred players in the Levein era. Signings like Wighton, Callachan, Reilly, Souttar,  Halkett and Mulraney haven’t worked out that well in the cold light of day. 
Celtic paid more money than we could afford for Taylor and Christie, so we didn’t miss out on them. Nisbet has only one good season and wasn’t financially viable for us in January or now. Ferguson cost £250k, which might not have been possible for us to spend. Shankland should’ve been signed instead of Wighton but he wasn’t by anyone else, he went to Utd for free on great wages. McGinn and possibly Allan would’ve been decent signings for us. There are literally hundreds of players out there going for free and transfer fees should be kept for an exceptional talent with a good potential sell on fee. 

Edited by Pasquale for King

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Jamhammer
3 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

You may be right about other clubs.

I prefer my club to act with a bit of class and professionalism.

Not that it really matters but can you imagine the reaction of the media if we had told midden to f-off

We took the high ground. I get folk can’t see it but we did. The way to punish these ****s is to boycott their grounds. 

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Finlay James

I wouldn't give my money to any other club after what has happened.  However, that is for me as a fan.

 

I want the people who run our club to be professional and have business acumen that removes them from the emotions of fans.  Thankfully, we have the best there is in Ann Budge and I'm hoping our new CEO is cut from the same cloth.

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jager man
9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s not from lower league clubs but yes i take that on board, that’s not that many though in the grand scheme where we signed about a hundred players in the Levein era. Signings like Wighton, Callachan, Reilly, Souttar,  Halkett and Mulraney haven’t worked out that well in the cold light of day. 
Celtic paid more money than we could afford for Taylor and Christie, so we didn’t miss out on them. Nisbet has only one good season and wasn’t financially viable for us in January or now. Ferguson cost £250k, which might not have been possible for us to spend. Shankland should’ve been signed instead of Wighton but he wasn’t by anyone else, he went to Utd for free on great wages. McGinn and possibly Allan would’ve been decent signings for us. There are literally hundreds of players out there going for free and transfer fees should be kept for an exceptional talent with a good potential sell on fee. 

You mentioned lower level earlier not lower league. I thought you meant lower level as in budget. And regarding these fees for players you mention these are irrelevant if you have a good scouting system in place. For instance Celtic wanted McGinn when he was leaving Hibs but Hibs spotted his talent before any the rest of us. And the rest of the players I mentioned have displayed good talent for the last 4 to 5 years at lower level clubs without us spotting them. Let's agree to disagree but I don't think Hearts can be successful long term by refusing the deal with the clubs who shafted us. Like it or not we will have to deal with them. Whether we as fans forgive these clubs is another thing all together.

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Ex member of the SaS

A point some are missing is Hearts could have refused without causing a stir.

 

Reasons to refuse:

1) We have not yet had a full training period and we have our first pick keeper with suspected injury.

2) We don't think sending one of our players into a situation where he could catch Covid would be wise.

3) Bobby has not had a chance to train properly and playing a competitive game could lead to injury

4)It's not for a Championship team to interfere with how the SPFL wish to run the Premiership.

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Ex member of the SaS
2 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

I wouldn't give my money to any other club after what has happened.  However, that is for me as a fan.

 

I want the people who run our club to be professional and have business acumen that removes them from the emotions of fans.  Thankfully, we have the best there is in Ann Budge and I'm hoping our new CEO is cut from the same cloth.

I get what you are saying BUT does pissing off a large segment of your fans not impact on your business?  Hearts fans have been praised in the past for funding the club and doing things the fans are strongly against could see that funding reduced at a time when every penny counts.

Ratner is a case in point, a thriving jewelry business decimated due to one comment.

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Pasquale for King
9 minutes ago, jager man said:

You mentioned lower level earlier not lower league. I thought you meant lower level as in budget. And regarding these fees for players you mention these are irrelevant if you have a good scouting system in place. For instance Celtic wanted McGinn when he was leaving Hibs but Hibs spotted his talent before any the rest of us. And the rest of the players I mentioned have displayed good talent for the last 4 to 5 years at lower level clubs without us spotting them. Let's agree to disagree but I don't think Hearts can be successful long term by refusing the deal with the clubs who shafted us. Like it or not we will have to deal with them. Whether we as fans forgive these clubs is another thing all together.

Lower level usually means leagues, we are a lower level club just now.
I still think that Celtic bought Allan from Hibs to keep him away from Rangers, but to also give them them the money to buy McGinn. I think Stubbs promised to sell him to them if he progressed, and then Lennon maybe prepared him for that move by being more harsh on him than others. They’ve then not dealt with them at all since he went to AV. 
I still don’t think we will have to deal with them, as we rarely do now. But as long as it’s for our benefit, this loan is not any way beneficial to us. 

Edited by Pasquale for King

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iainmac
12 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

A point some are missing is Hearts could have refused without causing a stir.

 

Reasons to refuse:

1) We have not yet had a full training period and we have our first pick keeper with suspected injury.

2) We don't think sending one of our players into a situation where he could catch Covid would be wise.

3) Bobby has not had a chance to train properly and playing a competitive game could lead to injury

4)It's not for a Championship team to interfere with how the SPFL wish to run the Premiership.

 

Another point being missed is that we are swimming with sharks. 

 

Until the Board wake up to that fact we will always be downtrodden by the rest with impunity. 

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Section Q
13 hours ago, jager man said:

With the fiasco regarding the loaning of Bobby to St mirren its got me thinking.

Should the club be dealing with other clubs who stabbed in Hearts in the back?

 

Initially my thoughts were we should have nothing to do with any of them. But does that mean we don't buy players from any of these clubs. As buying players from these clubs is funding them, where as we made money all be it pennies from Bobby's loan. 

 

Does that mean no more colin cameron, Paul Hartley and Neil mcCann type signings? So if we spot an exceptional talent in a lower division so called rebel club we don't entertain the club?

 

My view is the fans should still remember these clubs who have shafted us and punish them accordingly by not turning up in numbers, but I think the club should carry on as before as it could actually cost us in the long term if we can only buy talent from Partick, Falkirk  and ICT.  

 

Is it time to separate the mind set of the fans with those of the people running the club 

I think one of the reasons we have benefactors is because of our impartiality to all things petty. Time to move on......!

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SomethingAboutObua

Most businesses can't survive by just telling their competitors to **** off, they actually do need to have positive relationships. You as a loyal customer however don't need to have any relationship with the competitors. 

 

I think Hearts can tell sides like County and Ayr that made comments directly about Hearts to piss off, but a blanket no contact with everyone is impossible and silly. But again, you as a fan dont need to give them anything yourself.

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Dazo
24 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

A point some are missing is Hearts could have refused without causing a stir.

 

Reasons to refuse:

1) We have not yet had a full training period and we have our first pick keeper with suspected injury.

2) We don't think sending one of our players into a situation where he could catch Covid would be wise.

3) Bobby has not had a chance to train properly and playing a competitive game could lead to injury

4)It's not for a Championship team to interfere with how the SPFL wish to run the Premiership.


No one is missing any points, we could have refused, full stop. However this was a footballing decision made by the footballing person currently in charge. That’s it, anything else is just noise and pithiness that RN isn’t going to get involved in. 

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JimmyCant
6 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

The fans have the right to treat other clubs as they see fit, no doubt about that.

however, as a member of the SFA/SPFL the club have to deal with all other clubs in some way. 

To do anything else would only result in our club being isolated and continue to be shafted by the authorities both on and off the pitch.

If that means lending a shite 3rd choice keeper to a hated club, so be it

Correct. If and how these clubs are ‘punished’ by the fan base is a matter for the fan base, in fact it’s a matter for the individual fan. The club won’t be supporting any form of fan base action I wouldn’t think, like declining away tickets for example.

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Jamstomorrow

As supporters, most of us probably feel aggrieved by the way our club was treated by certain parties and we will take the individual actions as we see fit by not supporting in any way these organisations.  However, HMFC, whilst probably equally miffed, has to act professionally with other clubs and organisations.  I suspect time will eventually lessen the fans anger.

 

I imagine it will be similar to after WW2 when many would not buy German or Japanese stuff.  How many out there in JKB land now drive German or Japanese cars.  Times and circumstances change.

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davemclaren
7 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

As supporters, most of us probably feel aggrieved by the way our club was treated by certain parties and we will take the individual actions as we see fit by not supporting in any way these organisations.  However, HMFC, whilst probably equally miffed, has to act professionally with other clubs and organisations.  I suspect time will eventually lessen the fans anger.

 

I imagine it will be similar to after WW2 when many would not buy German or Japanese stuff.  How many out there in JKB land now drive German or Japanese cars.  Times and circumstances change.

Never touch Campbell's soup. 

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HMFC01
1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

A point some are missing is Hearts could have refused without causing a stir.

 

Reasons to refuse:

1) We have not yet had a full training period and we have our first pick keeper with suspected injury.

2) We don't think sending one of our players into a situation where he could catch Covid would be wise.

3) Bobby has not had a chance to train properly and playing a competitive game could lead to injury

4)It's not for a Championship team to interfere with how the SPFL wish to run the Premiership.

 

2)  Should have been a very pertinent reason.  I mean who's being selfish on that point.  The fans wanting no loan deal with a covid stricken club or HMFC wanting to build bridges by loaning a player for 1 week.

 

My answer would be the club.  

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Jamstomorrow
4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Never touch Campbell's soup. 

Is that a fact or an order?  :)

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davemclaren
2 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

Is that a fact or an order?  :)

Both. 😎

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Cynic

Probably time to draw a ine under it all but bugger it! Never forget!! 

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jumpship

I don't feel anger or resentment towards individuals or groups or everyone. 

 

Just a realisation that pretty much everyone was happy to collect change and standby as other clubs were cheated. 

 

Bit like someone lying injured in the road and you saying "They probably shouldn't have been crossing the road anyway" and walking away. 

 

Will I buy away tickets and give these clubs money.. No.

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Boris
4 hours ago, iainmac said:

 

Another point being missed is that we are swimming with sharks. 

 

Until the Board wake up to that fact we will always be downtrodden by the rest with impunity. 

Two main sharks. St Mirren got bitten the other day. So all these clubs current puffed up and basking in our demise would be minded they could be next.

 

Maybe we are being political, building a potential coalition.

 

Maybe not though. Perhaps a tad Machiavellian.

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rudi must stay

That's football. Daft to keep grudges. Although I'm strongly against Hearts helping to strengthen the Old Firm 

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ToqueJambo
12 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

That's football. Daft to keep grudges. Although I'm strongly against Hearts helping to strengthen the Old Firm 

 

Fans can and do. Clubs can't. Not in public anyhow.

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ToqueJambo
4 hours ago, iainmac said:

 

Another point being missed is that we are swimming with sharks. 

 

Until the Board wake up to that fact we will always be downtrodden by the rest with impunity. 

 

Did you miss us (ie the club and board and Budge) fighting our corner and battling with the entire rest of the league the last few months, never backing down once?

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ToqueJambo
4 hours ago, Section Q said:

I think one of the reasons we have benefactors is because of our impartiality to all things petty. Time to move on......!

 

Yep, James Anderson is the opposite of petty as he demonstrated this summer. And he's currently, and potentially for the long-term hopefully, a very important person for Hearts.

 

Be more James Anderson and less St Mirren.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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leginten
7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Did you miss us (ie the club and board and Budge) fighting our corner and battling with the entire rest of the league the last few months, never backing down once?


Bit late. Instead of trying to be nice to everyone and setting the world to rights for years, she should have been focused on the unfolding catastrophe on the pitch. That might have constituted fighting our corner.

 

Interim report:

 

- in the Championship

- millions squandered

- no football currently on offer for Hearts fans.

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Bull's-eye

If the club knee jerked as much as the man-babies in the support we'd be in a seriously worse state than we currently are. 

Grown ups dust themselves off, learn and move forward.

 

The club is acting like a grown up.

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OTT

I wanted it to last this season to make a point. 

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ToqueJambo
1 minute ago, leginten said:


Bit late. Instead of trying to be nice to everyone and setting the world to rights for years, she should have been focused on the unfolding catastrophe on the pitch. That might have constituted fighting our corner.

 

Interim report:

 

- in the Championship

- millions squandered

- no football currently on offer for Hearts fans.

 

Was responding to someone saying we acted like a doormat. Clearly we haven't been no matter how shit things were last season.

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Spellczech
5 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Do you think doing what is best for the club includes trying to keep their customers happy?

What is a customer? Someone who pays money for a good or service.

 

If I buy a ticket I expect to see a football match. If I buy a pie I expect to enjoy it and get fat. If I buy a football top I expect it to survive a 30 degree wash...I don't expect to run the company.

 

If I donate money to FOH, it does not mean I own the club. I may expect them to influence the actions of the club in due course, but not yet...I don't expect to run FOH. 

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leginten
4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Was responding to someone saying we acted like a doormat. Clearly we haven't been no matter how shit things were last season.


We’ve been exhibiting doormat tendencies for years now, both internally (Budge has been a doormat for Levein) and externally.

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Jamstomorrow
1 hour ago, Boris said:

Two main sharks. St Mirren got bitten the other day. So all these clubs current puffed up and basking in our demise would be minded they could be next.

 

Maybe we are being political, building a potential coalition.

 

Maybe not though. Perhaps a tad Machiavellian.

Two main sharks?   Are they Basking Sharks?

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ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

What is a customer? Someone who pays money for a good or service.

 

If I buy a ticket I expect to see a football match. If I buy a pie I expect to enjoy it and get fat. If I buy a football top I expect it to survive a 30 degree wash...I don't expect to run the company.

 

If I donate money to FOH, it does not mean I own the club. I may expect them to influence the actions of the club in due course, but not yet...I don't expect to run FOH. 

 

****. I bought a suit and have been learning Powerpoint and everything.

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Pasquale for King
5 hours ago, Jamstomorrow said:

As supporters, most of us probably feel aggrieved by the way our club was treated by certain parties and we will take the individual actions as we see fit by not supporting in any way these organisations.  However, HMFC, whilst probably equally miffed, has to act professionally with other clubs and organisations.  I suspect time will eventually lessen the fans anger.

 

I imagine it will be similar to after WW2 when many would not buy German or Japanese stuff.  How many out there in JKB land now drive German or Japanese cars.  Times and circumstances change.

In 70 years time 👍🏽👏🏾

Edited by Pasquale for King

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, rudi must stay said:

That's football. Daft to keep grudges. Although I'm strongly against Hearts helping to strengthen the Old Firm 

So you hold a grudge against the OF? Do you hold them against St Liedown and Dundee?

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Gizmo
11 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

You don’t need a relationship with the clubs to buy players from them. Offer the asking price and you’ll get them.

 

And anyway, that’s deflection from the fact that we should not have helped St Mirren or the SPFL out of the ridiculous hole they were in. Anyone saying otherwise is, once again, merely making excuses for Budge’s consistently poor judgement.


It was Robbie's decision. 

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rudi must stay
14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So you hold a grudge against the OF? Do you hold them against St Liedown and Dundee?

 

I dislike them and I find Motherwell utterly pointless too. Always raise their game v us as well, it's like we are their cup final 

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upgotheheads
18 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

It may stick in the craw but the club needs to have some form of relationship with some of these clubs.

 

As a football fan I do not need to. It will be Only Hearts. I literally wouldn’t piss on any on any other club (with the notable exceptions) if they were on fire.

 

I hopefully have many happy years left on this earth. The vast majority of Scottish clubs will not see a penny of my money while I’m still here.

 

6 hours ago, Finlay James said:

I wouldn't give my money to any other club after what has happened.  However, that is for me as a fan.

 

I want the people who run our club to be professional and have business acumen that removes them from the emotions of fans.  Thankfully, we have the best there is in Ann Budge and I'm hoping our new CEO is cut from the same cloth.

 

Sums it up for me. I reckon I'll be £80-100 a month, at least, better off by not travelling to those clubs who did the dirty on us. Some of this will be passed on to FOH.

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Pasquale for King
23 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

I dislike them and I find Motherwell utterly pointless too. Always raise their game v us as well, it's like we are their cup final 

So grudges are ok after all?

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rudi must stay
7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So grudges are ok after all?

 

For a fan ye ofcourse if I was offered the keys to the city so to speak I would get rid of my grudges

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communist
2 hours ago, rudi must stay said:

That's football. Daft to keep grudges. Although I'm strongly against Hearts helping to strengthen the Old Firm 

 

Absolutely this. 

 

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

 

For a fan ye ofcourse if I was offered the keys to the city so to speak I would get rid of my grudges

But we will FAN owned shortly 🤷🏾‍♂️🤔😜?

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CARDIFFBOY

You cannot, as Hearts fans, expect the Club to be disrespectful to other clubs including those who ultimately helped to demote Hearts by being unsupportive and voting for the season to end and also causing the reconstruction of the leagues to be overruled. Hearts fans however will never, and should never forget the way certain clubs acted against the club we love, let our voices be heard, let our Club hierarchy get on with their jobs running Hearts and doing the best for our club. For the fans it has to be Only Hearts 💕

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The Fonz

Ann Budge the best in the business 😂. Be sure to remember that when we have to go and play against Arbroath and Morton this season. 

 

The club didn't need to make a public spectacle of rejecting St Mirren, but at the same time we had no obligation to do them any favours. 

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Gorgie Boot boy
2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

What is a customer? Someone who pays money for a good or service.

 

If I buy a ticket I expect to see a football match. If I buy a pie I expect to enjoy it and get fat. If I buy a football top I expect it to survive a 30 degree wash...I don't expect to run the company.

 

If I donate money to FOH, it does not mean I own the club. I may expect them to influence the actions of the club in due course, but not yet...I don't expect to run FOH. 

I see myself more of a consumer than customer as far as supporting Hearts is concerned, the most i have looked for is 100 % effort and commitment. The customer is looking for sales and sparkles. Paying to watch a successful attacking football side would be worth that wee bit extra expenditure, stretch personal finances out a bit more. 

 

The buy a pie part .. I miss pies and bovril at Tynie a lot more than the football we have played there recently, just watching training i can see all sorts of problems for sides who are going to be facing us.

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