Vilified Hearts midfielders

[jager man]

doomed position of centre midfield. Every Hearts fan wants an another cameron/hartley plus brellier type centre mid partnership. But there is so many midfielders who were hounded out the club who would have been massive improvement on last season.

 

Don Cowie (boy beside me in section G used to comment how he was worst player he had ever seen in a Hearts jersey). He obviously hadn't supported hearts for long.

 

Djoum (wasn't great all the time bit **** me were Hearts not barca)

 

 

 

 

 

[LeftBack]

Always had a soft spot for Berry but he was vilified by many. Did his job to best of ability. 

[jager man]

Just now, LeftBack said:

Always had a soft spot for Berry but he was vilified by many. Did his job to best of ability. 

Yeah was a real work horse. Could never doubt his commitment. No way we would have been our position with him last in his prime last season.

[Byyy The Light]

We’ve been shite in midfield for ages. Cowie was functional and Djoum was good but not a leader.

 

We need a system and style of play and hopefully Robbie is going to deliver that. Irving is going to be a revelation. 

[jager man]

Just now, Byyy The Light said:

We’ve been shite in midfield for ages. Cowie was functional and Djoum was good but not a leader.

 

We need a system and style of play and hopefully Robbie is going to deliver that. Irving is going to be a revelation. 

Agree but they would have been an improvement. 

[Byyy The Light]

12 minutes ago, jager man said:

Agree but they would have been an improvement. 

Djoum definitely. Cowie I’m not convinced. Great effort and work rate but we struggled with breaking teams down when they sat in against us. We needed someone to go past a player in midfield and create space. Cowie was never going to be that guy. 

[Famous 1874]

Djoum was a footballer 

Cowie was a runner 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Famous 1874

[BackOfTheNet]

Funny how Brellier was mentioned in the OP as one of the players people want rather than one of the vilified. Not saying it should be the other way around but I think Brellier is up there as one of the most overrated Hearts players of all time.

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Funny how Brellier was mentioned in the OP as one of the players people want rather than one of the vilified. Not saying it should be the other way around but I think Brellier is up there as one of the most overrated Hearts players of all time.

A rich man’s Neil Berry. 

[Tasavallan]

Many supporters do not understand the role of the defensive midfielder.  Break up the opposition's midfield, disrupt play, win the ball and pass it to a more creative colleague.

 

Brellier was a favourite of mine as was Tomascek and Gomes.  Perry Kitchen received dog's abuse on here.

[BackOfTheNet]

13 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

A rich man’s Neil Berry. 

His career before Hearts was low level or youth (people get blinkered by being signed from Inter) and his career since leaving show he wasn’t actually up to much. Not that we couldn’t use an enforcer type the last few years but he was extremely helped being in the best team we’ve had this side of the millennium.

Edited August 24, 2020 by BackOfTheNet

[BackOfTheNet]

1 minute ago, Tasavallan said:

Many supporters do not understand the role of the defensive midfielder.  Break up the opposition's midfield, disrupt play, win the ball and pass it to a more creative colleague.

 

Brellier was a favourite of mine as was Tomascek and Gomes.  Perry Kitchen received dog's abuse on here.

I’m fully aware of what a defensive midfielder’s duties are. I just don’t think Brellier done them as well as some think he did. He gets a pass for his blootering of Brown but truth be told he gave away far too many fouls and had much less to do because of the ability of the players around him to keep possession. If he was in a team that didn’t have the ball as much he’d struggle. As he did once he left. Not saying he was terrible, but he was a decent player to have at most.

[PhoenixHearts]

Buaben was inexplicably hated by a lot of folks. He wasn't the best in his last 2 seasons but he was never as bad as the boo boys would have you believe. In the Championship and our first season back up, I thought he was pretty good.

Would certainly help us in the championship again. 

 

Towards the end I swear I'd hear folks saying "****sake Buaben" after Lafferty skied a shot attempt. Got the blame for literally everything. Was everyone's favourite scapegoat.

[jager man]

25 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

His career before Hearts was low level or youth (people get blinkered by being signed from Inter) and his career since leaving show he wasn’t actually up to much. Not that we couldn’t use an enforcer type the last few years but he was extremely helped being in the best team we’ve had this side of the millennium.

Good point. But at times he was like the Hearts version of Kante when Leicester won the league. There probably was better in that position at times with hearts but we were semi successful which made him him stand out.

[BackOfTheNet]

19 minutes ago, jager man said:

Good point. But at times he was like the Hearts version of Kante when Leicester won the league. There probably was better in that position at times with hearts but we were semi successful which made him him stand out.

Kante didn’t just compliment Leicester he elevated them higher than they had any right to be. He didn’t crunch into tackles, he timed them. Brellier didn’t elevate that team he just existed within it and done a job. Other than the area of pitch the both occupied Brellier and Kante couldn’t be any different in their approach to the game.

[Thommo414]

3 hours ago, Tasavallan said:

Many supporters do not understand the role of the defensive midfielder.  Break up the opposition's midfield, disrupt play, win the ball and pass it to a more creative colleague.

 

Brellier was a favourite of mine as was Tomascek and Gomes.  Perry Kitchen received dog's abuse on here.

A quick look over at the most recent Perry Kitchen thread will confirm some people still aren’t over him.. I didn’t mind him too much, definitely not our biggest problem around that time imo

[Kiwidoug]

Chelsea got a defensive midfielder from Real Madrid around 25 years ago.  Frenchman.  Can't remember his name but someone else will.  He only left Real because they refused him a comparatively modest wage rise.

 

I think the stats will back me up in saying that when he was with Real, they couldn't stop winning trophies.  After he'd gone, they couldn't win a trick.  The same situation in reverse was the case at Chesea.

 

I wasnt alone in thinking he was terrific.  He effortlessly broke down attacks again and again and put his side on the front foot.

[Bull's-eye]

Heart's supporters are pretty thick when it comes to Football. Quite a strange one really.

 

All Goalkeeping experts, managerial experts but absolutely clueless about the rest of the pitch. 

 

I blame Sky.

[indianajones]

28 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Chelsea got a defensive midfielder from Real Madrid around 25 years ago.  Frenchman.  Can't remember his name but someone else will.  He only left Real because they refused him a comparatively modest wage rise.

 

I think the stats will back me up in saying that when he was with Real, they couldn't stop winning trophies.  After he'd gone, they couldn't win a trick.  The same situation in reverse was the case at Chesea.

 

I wasnt alone in thinking he was terrific.  He effortlessly broke down attacks again and again and put his side on the front foot.

 

Claude Makélélé

[dazinho88]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Chelsea got a defensive midfielder from Real Madrid around 25 years ago.  Frenchman.  Can't remember his name but someone else will.  He only left Real because they refused him a comparatively modest wage rise.

 

I think the stats will back me up in saying that when he was with Real, they couldn't stop winning trophies.  After he'd gone, they couldn't win a trick.  The same situation in reverse was the case at Chesea.

 

I wasnt alone in thinking he was terrific.  He effortlessly broke down attacks again and again and put his side on the front foot.

 

Makalele, what a player he was. I've had a soft spot for Chelsea since the 90's and have watched a lot of them - he was simply outstanding. In my opinion, the best anchorman to play the game in my lifetime (I'm only 32 tbf) 

 

Read the game with ease, positioning was excellent as a result, strong despite his build and couldn't half pick a pass to get Chelsea going back forward quickly. Real were nowhere near as good without him 

[frankblack]

A lot of the coloured players got the worst abuse from some of the "traditional supporters".

 

Some of the stuff I've heard in the stands or on buses after the game would make your ears bleed.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

A lot of the coloured players got the worst abuse from some of the "traditional supporters".

 

Some of the stuff I've heard in the stands or on buses after the game would make your ears bleed.

Irony.

[Locky]

I love Don Cowie. Bearing in mind he played right through the Cathro shitfest, I loved him even more. He was the only one in that squad that gave a flying ****. 

 

Him and Berra celebrating after we knocked Hibs out the cup at Tynie.  

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, Fun Boaby said:

Irony.

 

Perhaps you would care to expand on that response?

[Weakened Offender]

24 minutes ago, frankblack said:

A lot of the coloured players got the worst abuse from some of the "traditional supporters".

 

Some of the stuff I've heard in the stands or on buses after the game would make your ears bleed.

 

Fact. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Perhaps you would care to expand on that response?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/30999175/warning-why-using-the-term-coloured-is-offensive

[frankblack]

Just now, Fun Boaby said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/30999175/warning-why-using-the-term-coloured-is-offensive

 

You are straw clutching at that one to cover your previous post.  Truly pitiful.

[pablo]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

You are straw clutching at that one to cover your previous post.  Truly pitiful.

 

It's not really. It's pretty well established that coloured isn't a term you would use now for black people. Or at least, I thought it was?

[Leveins Battalion]

 

Signing has been shite like Don Cowie is partly the reason why we started on this slippery slope,whilst we were signing 30 odd year olds for the engine room our rivals like Hibs and Aberdeen invested in young guys like McGinn and Ferguson.

 

Where to start with the dung we have been served up the last 5 years.

 

Kenny Anderson

Perry Kitchen

Maluary Martin

Loic Damour

Glen Whelan

 

All villified beacuse they were shite!!!

[frankblack]

Just now, pablo said:

 

It's not really. It's pretty well established that coloured isn't a term you would use now for black people. Or at least, I thought it was?

 

Its hard to say, with BLM and Me Too people are trying to virtue signal and try to sound offended at everything.  I used the term as neutral to encompass anyone non-caucasian, but that is getting off topic, which is what I guess the poster above wanted to achieve rather than address the point.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Leveins Battalion said:

 

Signing has been shite like Don Cowie is partly the reason why we started on this slippery slope,whilst we were signing 30 odd year olds for the engine room our rivals like Hibs and Aberdeen invested in young guys like McGinn and Ferguson.

 

Where to start with the dung we have been served up the last 5 years.

 

Kenny Anderson

Perry Kitchen

Maluary Martin

Loic Damour

Glen Whelan

 

All villified beacuse they were shite!!!

 

Every team signs players that don't fit and I don't think you could find a Hearts squad in the past 40 years where there weren't duds.  The point is were there enough good signings to balance it out - clearly not since Neilson left.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its hard to say, with BLM and Me Too people are trying to virtue signal and try to sound offended at everything.  I used the term as neutral to encompass anyone non-caucasian, but that is getting off topic, which is what I guess the poster above wanted to achieve rather than address the point.

Not what i wanted at all.  Today's a school day and you've learned something. 

 

Back on topic our midfield, like the rest of our recruitment over the past few years has been honking. We also seem to have had a habit of making players worse when they came here. Hopefully we can fix this going forward. With our backing and resources we have the potential to be way in front of most other clubs

[jambo_74]

7 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Funny how Brellier was mentioned in the OP as one of the players people want rather than one of the vilified. Not saying it should be the other way around but I think Brellier is up there as one of the most overrated Hearts players of all time.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Brellier was one of, if not the best defensive midfielder I have ever seen playing at Hearts. He covered Takis going forward from left back regularly. He broke up play and delivered the ball to the play makers. He was absolutely outstanding doing the dirty work. He was not a play maker, which is the only area of his game which you could have umbrage with, but that wasn't his job. 

[qferryjam]

35 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

 

Signing has been shite like Don Cowie is partly the reason why we started on this slippery slope,whilst we were signing 30 odd year olds for the engine room our rivals like Hibs and Aberdeen invested in young guys like McGinn and Ferguson.

 

Where to start with the dung we have been served up the last 5 years.

 

Kenny Anderson

Perry Kitchen

Maluary Martin

Loic Damour

Glen Whelan

 

All villified beacuse they were shite!!!

That’s brutal putting Perry Kitchen in that list , 

[DS98]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

A lot of the coloured players got the worst abuse from some of the "traditional supporters".

 

Some of the stuff I've heard in the stands or on buses after the game would make your ears bleed.

Your hearts in the right place with the post Frank. But that’s been an unacceptable turn of phrase for about 30 years

[Leveins Battalion]

5 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Brellier was one of, if not the best defensive midfielder I have ever seen playing at Hearts. He covered Takis going forward from left back regularly. He broke up play and delivered the ball to the play makers. He was absolutely outstanding doing the dirty work. He was not a play maker, which is the only area of his game which you could have umbrage with, but that wasn't his job. 

 

 

Brellier 2nd only to Salvatori for DM in my lifetime.

[kingantti1874]

And quickly about turns and abandons the thread. 

[JamboBoy]

The best defensive midfielder I have ever seen was Dunga for Brazil.  Always there to put in a tackle when required, but more importantly was always available to receive and give a pass. Never anything flashy, but kept possession and the ball moving. Keeping the ball and moving it in various different directions (yes sometimes even sideways and backwards!) is something that opposing teams hate as they know if they lose it they may not get it back again for a while. Problem is, particularly in Scotland, fans get far too anxious if their team does not move it forward quickly, rather than remembering that possession is key. The opposing team cannot win without it and the other team can of course if you think about it enough. Simples😀😀

[jambo_74]

6 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

 

 

Brellier 2nd only to Salvatori for DM in my lifetime.

Agreed, Salvatori was a more cultured footballer than Brellier. Not only could he do the dirty work,  he could see a pass and more often than not, execute it. Brellier undoubtedly had limitations and as Back of the Net quite rightly pointed out, his career prior to Hearts and post Hearts was less than impressive. Lets be honest though, for a large chunk of the 05-06 season, he allowed Skacel and Hartley to flourish. That was his job and he did it extremely impressively. He just fit the club, the time and the players around him.

Edited August 24, 2020 by jambo_74
typo

[jager man]

3 minutes ago, JamboBoy said:

The best defensive midfielder I have ever seen was Dunga for Brazil.  Always there to put in a tackle when required, but more importantly was always available to receive and give a pass. Never anything flashy, but kept possession and the ball moving. Keeping the ball and moving it in various different directions (yes sometimes even sideways and backwards!) is something that opposing teams hate as they know if they lose it they may not get it back again for a while. Problem is, particularly in Scotland, fans get far too anxious if their team does not move it forward quickly, rather than remembering that possession is key. The opposing team cannot win without it and the other team can of course if you think about it enough. Simples😀😀

Great player but a large section of our support would still complain about him. Too slow or can't go past a man. Sick of hearing it. 

[Leveins Battalion]

3 minutes ago, jager man said:

Great player but a large section of our support would still complain about him. Too slow or can't go past a man. Sick of hearing it. 

 

 

What a strange opinion,i would say that Hearts supporters idolize great players more that most however after we have signed so many poor players in recent history they quite rightly have every right to complain.

 

Unfortunately you will keep hearing until we stop signing guys like Wighton etc who are clearly never good enough to be at our club.

[jager man]

7 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

 

 

What a strange opinion,i would say that Hearts supporters idolize great players more that most however after we have signed so many poor players in recent history they quite rightly have every right to complain.

 

Unfortunately you will keep hearing until we stop signing guys like Wighton etc who are clearly never good enough to be at our club.

When is the last time Hearts fans idolized a midfielder?

[davemclaren]

8 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

His career before Hearts was low level or youth (people get blinkered by being signed from Inter) and his career since leaving show he wasn’t actually up to much. Not that we couldn’t use an enforcer type the last few years but he was extremely helped being in the best team we’ve had this side of the millennium.

A vital part of that team. He let the rest of the midfield play by covering every blade of grass, winning the ball snd giving it to the more skilful players. I think some people are blinkered, as to what he visibly did for us, by his career before and after. 

[kingantti1874]

16 minutes ago, jager man said:

When is the last time Hearts fans idolized a midfielder?

Peter Haring

[jager man]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

Peter Haring

Idolized since he's been injured. 

[Jumper]

27 minutes ago, jager man said:

When is the last time Hearts fans idolized a midfielder?

Paul Hartley.

 

Then just about every midfielder signed since then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, briefly.

[WageThief]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Its hard to say, with BLM and Me Too people are trying to virtue signal and try to sound offended at everything.  I used the term as neutral to encompass anyone non-caucasian, but that is getting off topic, which is what I guess the poster above wanted to achieve rather than address the point.

 

 

It certainly seems preposterous to discuss your choice of word rather than the issue you raised which is a far larger issue.  But words have always changed their meanings and people have always got offended (often by being looked at in a pub).

 

Often the term that is accepted and used becomes outdated, then offensive.  This has happened with words like 'scotch' about 200 years ago and had nothing to do with BLM, hashtags, or Twitter.

[Thommo414]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Its hard to say, with BLM and Me Too people are trying to virtue signal and try to sound offended at everything.  I used the term as neutral to encompass anyone non-caucasian, but that is getting off topic, which is what I guess the poster above wanted to achieve rather than address the point.

The term they prefer these days is BAME, which I can’t get behind, mainly because 1, it encompasses anyone who’s not Caucasian and 2, “black, Asian, minor ethnicity” is basically like saying, “we acknowledge the blacks and Asians, then there’s the rest of them”

 

I get what you meant in your first post and agree with the point you made 

[jager man]

19 minutes ago, Jumper said:

Paul Hartley.

 

Then just about every midfielder signed since then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, briefly.

Ha ha that's my point we love them for a few games then pick holes in them and forget about their strengths. Then the boo boys take over and before we know it a section of our support are on their backs. This then affects their confidence and they don't show for the ball in fear of getting abused. 

[BackOfTheNet]

1 hour ago, jambo_74 said:

With all due respect, I have to disagree. Brellier was one of, if not the best defensive midfielder I have ever seen playing at Hearts. He covered Takis going forward from left back regularly. He broke up play and delivered the ball to the play makers. He was absolutely outstanding doing the dirty work. He was not a play maker, which is the only area of his game which you could have umbrage with, but that wasn't his job. 

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here I think. The points you’ve described are basically the minimum requirement for an anchor midfielder. I personally saw him foul players too often as they ran past him with the smallest amount of pace. I sometimes think he stunted the attacking player sometimes and we only flourished when the ball bypassed him. I know his role was defensive rather than attacking but I wasn’t a fan when watching from the stands then and I’m not now.