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highlandjambo3

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

Edited by highlandjambo3
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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
57 minutes ago, Cade said:

:wow:

 

 

No idea how far away from it she is but the force is just incredible.

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been here before
36 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

 

You seem to know what you're talking about.

 

I fear that this isnt the thread for you.

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Salad Fingers
44 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

 

Was that what they called "the black stuff"? I am actually reading a book just now that mentioned the ban. It mentioned that it actually gave birth to the car bomb as one of the first victims of it was blown up in his car in an "own goal". 

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10 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

You seem to know what you're talking about.

 

I fear that this isnt the thread for you.

🤣 absolutely. 

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8595359/Lebanese-authorities-repeatedly-warned-danger-hazardous-chemicals.html

 

 

Lebanon has placed every official responsible for the security of Beirut's port for the last six years under house arrest as it investigates a massive explosion which has devastated the city. 

The country's political leaders vowed those responsible for the tragedy would 'pay the price', but customs officials pointed the finger of blame back at them - saying they were repeatedly warned of the danger but failed to act.

It came as an astonishing photo emerged, purporting to show the dock's Warehouse 12 filled with ammonium nitrate - with the highly explosive chemical stored in simple construction sacks with no other protection in place.

The dangerous load is understood to have been abandoned by Russian businessman Igor Grechushkin in September 2013 before eventually being transferred to the port where it remained for six years. 

A ship carrying the load was detained en route from Batumi, in the ex-Soviet republic Georgia, to Mozambique, and never recovered. 

On Tuesday evening a fire that started in Warehouse 9 ignited 2,750 tons of the chemical - sparking an explosion with three kilotons of force, equivalent to a fifth the size of the Hiroshima nuclear blast. 

The health minister tonight announced the death toll had risen to 135, with some 5,000 wounded and dozens still missing in Beirut, which officials have called a 'disaster city'.

 

 

Excuse the link.  😉

 

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On 04/08/2020 at 18:34, Cade said:

 

Not sure that's your jurisdiction, ya wanks

On alert for another terror attack, is what they're hinting. 

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highlandjambo3
40 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Was that what they called "the black stuff"? I am actually reading a book just now that mentioned the ban. It mentioned that it actually gave birth to the car bomb as one of the first victims of it was blown up in his car in an "own goal". 

Not sure.......

if you look at the amount of border between northern & Southern Ireland, back in the troubles it was quite easy for farmers to store masses of this stuff....either willingly or by persuasion.  It was easily mixed up in the south then transported north by tractor towing silage containers......tbh they were pretty good at what they did.

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highlandjambo3
37 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8595359/Lebanese-authorities-repeatedly-warned-danger-hazardous-chemicals.html

 

 

Lebanon has placed every official responsible for the security of Beirut's port for the last six years under house arrest as it investigates a massive explosion which has devastated the city. 

The country's political leaders vowed those responsible for the tragedy would 'pay the price', but customs officials pointed the finger of blame back at them - saying they were repeatedly warned of the danger but failed to act.

It came as an astonishing photo emerged, purporting to show the dock's Warehouse 12 filled with ammonium nitrate - with the highly explosive chemical stored in simple construction sacks with no other protection in place.

The dangerous load is understood to have been abandoned by Russian businessman Igor Grechushkin in September 2013 before eventually being transferred to the port where it remained for six years. 

A ship carrying the load was detained en route from Batumi, in the ex-Soviet republic Georgia, to Mozambique, and never recovered. 

On Tuesday evening a fire that started in Warehouse 9 ignited 2,750 tons of the chemical - sparking an explosion with three kilotons of force, equivalent to a fifth the size of the Hiroshima nuclear blast. 

The health minister tonight announced the death toll had risen to 135, with some 5,000 wounded and dozens still missing in Beirut, which officials have called a 'disaster city'.

 

 

Excuse the link.  😉

 

Close proximity to a blast can actually completely vaporise you.....People will literally dissolve 

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5 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Close proximity to a blast can actually completely vaporise you.....People will literally dissolve 

 

I would expect anyone within a certain range to have been pretty much disintegrated by the shock wave alone. There will possibly be not a shred  of some ever found. Others may be identified by small traces of DNA.

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J.T.F.Robertson
7 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

 

Used in the Oklahoma City bombing, I think. (may already have been said)

 

 

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highlandjambo3
6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I would expect anyone within a certain range to have been pretty much disintegrated by the shock wave alone. There will possibly be not a shred  of some ever found. Others may be identified by small traces of DNA.

The shock wave (or rapid air displacement as it’s known) is what knocks down walls so to speak, it won’t vaporise you.....to disappear you would need to be in close proximity the actual physical blast, let’s say (rough guess) anyone within 100-200m of that blast won’t ever be found, their DNA will have burned up so no evidence they ever existed will be found but....the evidence of someone being there will be a foot found in a boot, a leather wallet, items if jewellery etc....but no flesh or bone.

Edited by highlandjambo3
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highlandjambo3
12 hours ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Was that what they called "the black stuff"? I am actually reading a book just now that mentioned the ban. It mentioned that it actually gave birth to the car bomb as one of the first victims of it was blown up in his car in an "own goal". 

In the early days of remote detonation, there were one or two “own goals” as they were setting stuff up, wee Jonny playing with his remote controlled airplane close by was usually enough to set a device off however, as the IRA grew with time, so did their support and, electrical engineering specialists got involved with the more sophisticated stuff...boobytraps, under car bombs and the likes.

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Hopefully Faslane doesn't ever go pop with missiles and warheads in Dock. 

 

It would be a :wtf: oh, never mind, moment. 

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47 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

The shock wave (or rapid air displacement as it’s known) is what knocks down walls so to speak, it won’t vaporise you.....to disappear you would need to be in close proximity the actual physical blast, let’s say (rough guess) anyone within 100-200m of that blast won’t ever be found, their DNA will have burned up so no evidence they ever existed will be found but....the evidence of someone being there will be a foot found in a boot, a leather wallet, items if jewellery etc....but no flesh or bone.

 

This isn't about air displacement, it's about vibration. A shock wave on that level will completely obliterate a body.
 

An example of how vibration kills would be a story I read recounted by a WW2 veteran. Nothing like on this level but still a shock wave vibration kill. A shell exploded nearby. The guy telling the story survived but his mate who was actually slightly further away from it than he was is dead.

He could see no damage to the guy. Untouched by shrapnel but blood running from ears and nose. What killed him was the vibration from the shock wave. Tore up arteries and organs.

The guy telling the story though nearer survived because the shock wave (vibration) traveled up from the impact point in an expanding cone shape. He being slightly closer and crouching lower just missed the cone entirely. His mates upper body was inside it. Innards shredded by the vibration. 

I feel a shock wave on the level of this Beirut blast would transmit such a massive vibration that any body it passed through would effectively be liquefied. The liquefied flesh being blown clean off the bones and scattered in droplets.

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highlandjambo3
19 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This isn't about air displacement, it's about vibration. A shock wave on that level will completely obliterate a body.
 

An example of how vibration kills would be a story I read recounted by a WW2 veteran. Nothing like on this level but still a shock wave vibration kill. A shell exploded nearby. The guy telling the story survived but his mate who was actually slightly further away from it than he was is dead.

He could see no damage to the guy. Untouched by shrapnel but blood running from ears and nose. What killed him was the vibration from the shock wave. Tore up arteries and organs.

The guy telling the story though nearer survived because the shock wave (vibration) traveled up from the impact point in an expanding cone shape. He being slightly closer and crouching lower just missed the cone entirely. His mates upper body was inside it. Innards shredded by the vibration. 

I feel a shock wave on the level of this Beirut blast would transmit such a massive vibration that any body it passed through would effectively be liquefied. The liquefied flesh being blown clean off the bones and scattered in droplets.

Almost correct........

 

First of all a “shock wave” is air displacement.

 

Secondly, A shell is different in design to a mass of explosives.... a shell is a shaped charge (inverted cone as you mentioned) designed to detonate on * impact in one specific direction...I.e through the side of a tank after it strikes......if you are at the other side of that cone you will be shredded...obliterated etc....someone a few feet away could see it all happen and survive.  The Beirut blast was not a shaped charge designed to go in one direction, it was a mass of explosive with an equal circumference of air displacement.  
So, as I mentioned, explosives and detonation is all about air displacement.....everything you see afterwords (fireballs due to fuel ruptures, buildings falling down) is all secondary because of the damage air displacement has caused.

 

* although that direction can actually be all round, as in an artillery shell (like a big grenade) designed to cause maximum damage.

Edited by highlandjambo3
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14 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

No idea how far away from it she is but the force is just incredible.

Looks to be about 1200m on google maps. A similar distance of, from Britannia to the foot of Leith Walk.

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Governor Tarkin
53 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

I'm having flashbacks to the expert legal opinions on the court case thread.

 

:lol:

 

I know what you mean, but I think @highlandjambo3 might actually be an expert on blowing shit up. 👍

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highlandjambo3
39 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

:lol:

 

I know what you mean, but I think @highlandjambo3 might actually be an expert on blowing shit up. 👍

Well I was when in the army.......been out a good few years now but when I left I handed back my ID card and uniform.....I didn’t hand back my 25years experience........ Some stuff stays with you.

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President Macron is visiting Beirut today, good to see he's prioritising it, hopefully there's a concerted international effort to get supplies to where they're needed. From some of the reports I've seen the Lebanese government is another incompetent kleptocracy.

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highlandjambo3
5 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Well I was when in the army.......been out a good few years now but when I left I handed back my ID card and uniform.....I didn’t hand back my 25years experience........ Some stuff stays with you.

p.s.........I cant buy a box of fireworks in Tesco now without ID 😂

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

President Macron is visiting Beirut today, good to see he's prioritising it, hopefully there's a concerted international effort to get supplies to where they're needed. From some of the reports I've seen the Lebanese government is another incompetent kleptocracy.

 

Of the highest order it would seem, even Macron said that he'd make sure that French aid went to the right people and several activists are pleading with people not to donate to the Lebanese Government as they'll just keep it, but to donate directly to NGO's, charities or to the people themselves.

 

This will probably bring down the Lebanese Government.

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Lebanon never really sorted the divisions that led to the civil war and occupation by Syria and Israel.

Just kind of muddled through and it's never really been stable.

 

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1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

p.s.........I cant buy a box of fireworks in Tesco now without ID 😂

 

Is that because after you retired from the army you still wanted to blow shit up and got banned from Tesco?

 

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highlandjambo3
19 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Is that because after you retired from the army you still wanted to blow shit up and got banned from Tesco?

 

Dam....sussed 

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The Spy Who Loved Me

I believe this was an accident in the way that Chernobyl was an accident - it’s not that there are one or two people who are responsible, but a whole system of corruption and negligence.

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2 hours ago, Cade said:

Lebanon never really sorted the divisions that led to the civil war and occupation by Syria and Israel.

Just kind of muddled through and it's never really been stable.

 

Some would say the opposite. There is a long standing arrangement in Lebanon that the various senior political roles have to be from different factions, eg the president is always a Christian. Unfortunately on occasion it leads to a struggle to find the right people in a group. There is also a bigger Imbalance in the population as after 1948 huge amounts of Palestinians came to the county and now the diaspora from Syria. Then add onto this lots of Christians leaving in the last few years. 

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35 minutes ago, superjack said:

Someone shared this video with me just now. Not sure how authentic it is though.
 

 

Two things immediately stand out as suspicious to me. 
 

1) There is no exhaust trail from the missile - even if it was gliding rather than powered it would have some interaction with the smoke in the air on the way down

2) Using the same scale as the presumed target, that missile is as long as the building it hits is tall. It was what, two or three stories? I don't think there is a missile (other than ballistic) that is that big

 

I'm calling shite on this one

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That video is the most amateurish thing I've ever seen.

I've seen all the original footage of those clips and all they've done is change the colour to hide their badly superimposed "missiles"

 

Total cringe.

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Seymour M Hersh
On 05/08/2020 at 18:01, highlandjambo3 said:

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

 

On top of this as a comparison there was around 2,700 tons stored in the warehouse in Beirut. The Oklahoma bomber used only 3.5 tons. 

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highlandjambo3
11 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

On top of this as a comparison there was around 2,700 tons stored in the warehouse in Beirut. The Oklahoma bomber used only 3.5 tons. 

Ok, 


That 3.5 tons could have been very high strength ammonium nitrate  (I don’t know).


As my post stated below, ammonium nitrate is used as (PART) of fertiliser in agriculture on an industrial level so, let’s say (we won’t really find out with any certainty), it has been suggested In Beirut that the explosive content mass was 2,700 tons but, I’d say that the total fertiliser weight content was 2,700 tons with the ammonium nitrate being 30 (odd) percent of that, so much less than the 2,700 tons mentioned  is (but still a frigging  lot).
 

I also did mention that the seriousness of how dangerous this stuff  (*could be) can be disguised, with smoke and mirrors, as something else....let’s tell everyone it will be great for out farmers growing crops...our economy, feed the world  etc...etc...
 

I would suggest (my optioned course) the agreed storage of this Chemical was based on its use as an agriculture produce......why would any government official agree to store that type of hazard in a city if they knew it’s potential.

 

Anyway.... not massively ITK about Beirut but, I did like playing with stuff that goes bang and consider myself quite knowledgeable in these matters..........don’t steal the milk from my front door.....I’ll hunt you down ant you won’t want that 😉

 

* our farmers still use this fertiliser.......it is actually safe.

 

 

 

On 05/08/2020 at 18:01, highlandjambo3 said:

Just thought I’d chuck in my tuppence worth just for your information.

 

I spent a lot of time in the Army blowing stuff up (demolition safety officer or explosives engineer for want of a better word).


Its been reported that this explosion was ammonium nitrate based, which is commonly used in fertiliser at industrial level in the agricultural world.  The IRA used to make bombs from this stuff called ANFO (ammonium nitrate mixed with fuel & oil) that’s what killed Mountbatten.  So, in Northern Ireland it was illegal for farmers to purchase this product if it’s strength was more than 30%. 
 

This Ammonium nitrate also requires a very small amount of commercial explosive to ignite it/to make it go bang (did you recognise the cluster of flashes or smaller explosions before the main explosion), liken it to a bucket of petrol which in itself is not dangerous but, chucking in a lit match changes this perception.  Anyway, to the uneducated/untrained, it may not be common knowledge that this stuff could be dangerous, it looks like a grow bag from B & Q.

 

Thats all

 

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The Cabinet and PM may have resigned now, but they'll all just get shuffled around and stay on as MPs.

Some of them will even end up back in the Cabinet.

 

The public are calling for all opposition MPs to stand down, and if 1/3 of MPs quit then that triggers a general election.

 

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On 04/08/2020 at 22:17, Barack said:

It's a staggering amount just sitting there in that proximity.

 

For reference and scale; Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber, used 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.

 

thats mental didnt know thats what was used on oklahoma terrible

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  • 5 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

Lebanon's two main power plants have run out of fuel and shut down.

Some local generators in some neighbourhoods are still going but they'll run out soon too.

Almost the whole nation now has no electricity.

 

Since the currency was unpegged from the US Dollar, it's plummeted and lost it's value 15-fold.

Fuel suppliers are demanding to be paid in dollars.

Hence no fuel.

 

The entire nation is fecked.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo

Was hearing on the news that people can't even afford to buy paracetamol as it's so expensive now, mind there isn't any to buy in the first place but if there was the people couldn't afford it.

 

Unless the Lebanese government do something PDQ law and order is going to completely break down and there is a real fear that the country could lurch into civil war again.

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2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Was hearing on the news that people can't even afford to buy paracetamol as it's so expensive now, mind there isn't any to buy in the first place but if there was the people couldn't afford it.

 

Unless the Lebanese government do something PDQ law and order is going to completely break down and there is a real fear that the country could lurch into civil war again.

A civil war the same as the last one would be very unlikely. The balance of the religions in Lebanon has changed a lot since then with the Christian percentage well down from the 50+% it roughly used to be. This was eroded by initially the Palestinian refugee population (which most Lebanese blame for the civil war) and now with large numbers from Syria and elsewhere taking the figures even further away. Also a lot of Christian’s left during the civil war. There is however a fair bit of tension between the various Muslim sects around the country. And this could be a source of conflict in future as the Sunni population resent Iran’s influence in the country through Hezbollah. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
11 hours ago, Tazio said:

A civil war the same as the last one would be very unlikely. The balance of the religions in Lebanon has changed a lot since then with the Christian percentage well down from the 50+% it roughly used to be. This was eroded by initially the Palestinian refugee population (which most Lebanese blame for the civil war) and now with large numbers from Syria and elsewhere taking the figures even further away. Also a lot of Christian’s left during the civil war. There is however a fair bit of tension between the various Muslim sects around the country. And this could be a source of conflict in future as the Sunni population resent Iran’s influence in the country through Hezbollah. 

 

Civil war was maybe a bit strong.

Civil unrest though is very likely if the Lebanese government don't sort this out PDQ, as the public's patience is going to run out very quickly.

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Jambo-Jimbo

An alarming turn of events in Beirut, as clashes between Christian's & Shia's left at least 5 dead after a gun battle broke out during a protest about the judge leading the inquiry into the port explosion.

https://news.sky.com/story/beirut-clashes-erupt-during-protest-over-explosion-inquiry-at-least-five-dead-in-lebanon-as-gunfire-breaks-out-12433547

 

Lebanon has enough problems to contend with, without an escalation of secterian violence breaking out.

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo
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That's the thing.

After so many years of open corruption in the government and legislature, nobody trusts anybody.

 

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