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Mauricio Pinilla

Beirut explosion

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OTT
1 minute ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Imagine how much mental footage there would be if 9/11 had happened post-smartphone. 

 

Some of the footage I've saw on twitter has been really shocking. Even the colour of the blast. 

 

Crazy, last I saw was 30 dead and 3000 injured. Considering the size I'm shocked (and glad obviously) its not higher. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

No really, I never said it was or was not something. 🤷 

 

Indeed you didn't.

 

What I find the most telling thing is that nobody, maybe with the exception of social media are blaming anybody else.

The Lebanese are saying it was consficated explosives, Hezbollah are saying none of their arms dumps were involved & Israel are saying that they can't see anything to dispute the Lebanese version of events, even the Russians & the Iranians are quiet and not pointing the finger at anyone.

The Lebanese Prime Minister has said that the officials responsible will be held to account.

 

It is looking very much like a simple tragic accident.

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Barack
6 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:


Fireworks 🤪 that’s some mental footage caught there. That building on the right made to look like matchsticks.

Seems like the "explosive material" being stored there, according to the Lebanese Army, was Ammonium Nitrate.

 

The chemistry buffs amongst us will agree, it's a tad explosive given the right set of events...

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Barack

Nearly 3 tons of it.

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Ray Gin

 

 

 

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The Mighty Thor
49 minutes ago, Barack said:

Thought I'd have a go too:

 

 

20200804_202238.jpg

It would have been a seagull. They're nasty feckers. 

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trotter
5 minutes ago, Barack said:

Seems like the "explosive material" being stored there, according to the Lebanese Army, was Ammonium Nitrate.

 

The chemistry buffs amongst us will agree, it's a tad explosive given the right set of events...

 

Yup...

1 hour ago, trotter said:

Ammonium nitrate will do that no problem. That's what I think was involved. One of the videos I seen shows what looks like a bit of dark orange smoke before the explosion. Thats nitrogen oxide compounds given off as AN heats up and starts to thermally decompose before detonating. 

 

Similar to what happened in Nevada a while back. Although that was AP rather than AN. 

 

https://youtu.be/_KuGizBjDXo

 

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luckyBatistuta
1 minute ago, Barack said:

Nearly 3 tons of it.


ooft, incredible vid captures

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The Mighty Thor
4 minutes ago, Barack said:

Nearly 3 tons of it.

Read something on twitter about 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate being stored at the port. 

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Barack
Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Read something on twitter about 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate being stored at the port. 

Pretty much the world's biggest ever non-nuclear bomb then.

 

NH4 NO3 + fireworks + grain silo dust + spark

 

= that.

 

 

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trotter
3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Read something on twitter about 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate being stored at the port. 

This picture shows what happens when 4,500 tonnes really go for it. Oppau, Germany. 

 

467b6617d4c581e8da96a440d9448b25.jpg

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Gone

Why would you store such a large quantity of a hazardous material in such a populated city...?

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The Mighty Thor
1 minute ago, Barack said:

Pretty much the world's biggest ever non-nuclear bomb then.

 

NH4 NO3 + fireworks + grain silo dust + spark

 

= that.

 

 

Aye I'd love to see the port authority risk assessment for that lot. 

Someone's arse will be twitching like a rabbit's nose. 

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Dawnrazor
Just now, Barack said:

Pretty much the world's biggest ever non-nuclear bomb then.

 

NH4 NO3 + fireworks + grain silo dust + spark

 

= that.

 

 

I did an iduction course to get a pass to work at Roseisle Distillery for a contract job, the videos of dust explosions were a reall eye opener, I had no idea about it before, they were, quite rightly, paranoid about them.

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Mauricio Pinilla

At least 50 confirmed dead already :(

 

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trotter
Just now, Dawnrazor said:

I did an iduction course to get a pass to work at Roseisle Distillery for a contract job, the videos of dust explosions were a reall eye opener, I had no idea about it before, they were, quite rightly, paranoid about them.

Done a fair few process safety courses myself and the dust case studies come up. Strangely, there's always a 'small' explosion/flash fire first. What that does is lift the dust thats hiding on top of pipes, air conditioning ducts, etc and mixes it with the air. Its always this second detonation that does the damage, rather than the first. 

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Barack
Just now, Mauricio Pinilla said:

At least 50 confirmed dead already :(

 

It will rise, but given the tonnage of that explosion and the distances of the blast radius, if it's under 100 it'll be a miracle.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye I'd love to see the port authority risk assessment for that lot. 

Someone's arse will be twitching like a rabbit's nose. 

 

That's maybe why the Lebanese Prime Minister is saying those officials who are responsible will be held to account.

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Dawnrazor
Just now, trotter said:

Done a fair few process safety courses myself and the dust case studies come up. Strangely, there's always a 'small' explosion/flash fire first. What that does is lift the dust thats hiding on top of pipes, air conditioning ducts, etc and mixes it with the air. Its always this second detonation that does the damage, rather than the first. 

Correct, it was the high starch content of Barley dust in distilleries that's particularly dangerous. 

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Cade

Mythbusters really got into the dangers of dust explosions/fires.

Turns out that powdered milk when mixed with air then ignited makes a giant fireball.

Flourmills have always historically been serious fire risks.

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Barack
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I did an iduction course to get a pass to work at Roseisle Distillery for a contract job, the videos of dust explosions were a reall eye opener, I had no idea about it before, they were, quite rightly, paranoid about them.

 

9 minutes ago, trotter said:

Done a fair few process safety courses myself and the dust case studies come up. Strangely, there's always a 'small' explosion/flash fire first. What that does is lift the dust thats hiding on top of pipes, air conditioning ducts, etc and mixes it with the air. Its always this second detonation that does the damage, rather than the first. 

Yeah I've been on one or two on National Grid contracts relating to sub-stations.

 

Interesting. But eye-opening. 

 

No-one put nearly 3t's of AN near one though...

Edited by Barack

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trotter
2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Mythbusters really got into the dangers of dust explosions/fires.

Turns out that powdered milk when mixed with air then ignited makes a giant fireball.

Flourmills have always historically been serious fire risks.

We used to do it on a tiny scale in chemistry at high school. Put a tealight and a small mound of flour inside a thick walled measuring cylinder, then use a straw to blow the flour into the air. 

 

Don't think you can do that anymore....

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Barack

In fairness to @Cruyff the conditions for that explosion were seemingly right(wrong) for the appearance of a thermobaric weapon blast.

 

Perfect mix of combustible particles. 

 

 

 

 

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Tazio
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Correct, it was the high starch content of Barley dust in distilleries that's particularly dangerous. 

It’s why mills used to go up fairly regularly. I came up with a comedy explosion gag for a theatre show a number of years ago that was fully risk assessed with the fire department and people from the pyrotechnics industry. It was meant to be someone lighting a gas fire which then exploded in their face. Dead simple, he lights a lighter, at the same time compressed air went into a small balloon which sat in a tray covered in a spoonful of plaster bursting the balloon, lights offstage flashed for the explosion along with a sound effect and then as the stage lights came back up the plaster was like smoke hanging in the air. Everything was explained in detail to the stage manager that set it up to make it safe. Until the night someone else set it up and substituted talc as they couldn’t find the plaster. Looked great by all accounts, though the two actors with very little eyebrow left and bright red Skin on their faces for a few days may have disagreed. And that was only a teaspoon of talc and a lighter with a bit of air added to the equation. 

Edited by Tazio

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Mauricio Pinilla

I'd never heard the word thermobaric before this thread. Every day a school day on here. 

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The Mighty Thor
2 minutes ago, Barack said:

In fairness to @Cruyff the conditions for that explosion were seemingly right(wrong) for the appearance of a thermobaric weapon blast.

 

Perfect mix of combustible particles. 

 

 

 

 

To be fair most ports would have grain silos, LPG, fuel oil and chemicals in a relatively close proximity. A fireworks factory though?

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Barack
Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

To be fair most ports would have grain silos, LPG, fuel oil and chemicals in a relatively close proximity. A fireworks factory though?

Still a bit sceptical that was all that was there, given my earlier posts on the usage of Iranian "deliveries" to that port. Definitely there was footage of what appeared to be fireworks explosions prior, yeah.

 

On that...mix ammonium nitrate with nitric acid. Anyone tell me what that gives you...?

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trotter
3 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

I'd never heard the word thermobaric before this thread. Every day a school day on here. 

To be pedantic, if it does turn out to be AN or an other oxygen-rich explosive, its not technically thermobaric. Although for some explosive types the end result is near identical. 

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Gone
29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's maybe why the Lebanese Prime Minister is saying those officials who are responsible will be held to account.

 

Would he not know about such large quantities of hazardous chemicals sitting in his capital? He must take some blame too

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The Mighty Thor
10 minutes ago, Barack said:

Still a bit sceptical that was all that was there, given my earlier posts on the usage of Iranian "deliveries" to that port. Definitely there was footage of what appeared to be fireworks explosions prior, yeah.

 

On that...mix ammonium nitrate with nitric acid. Anyone tell me what that gives you...?

Sadly that part of the world has been a gateway for shipping of goods unlikely to make the ships manifest. 

 

Poor buggers. 

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Barack
Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Sadly that part of the world has been a gateway for shipping of goods unlikely to make the ships manifest. 

 

Poor buggers. 

Mmhmm.

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Cade

The picture seems to be that the Ammonium Nitrate was confiscated years ago and has been sitting in a dockside warehouse all this time.

Safety warnings were issued as early as 2014 but seemingly nothing was done.

 

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milky_26

they are blaming 2750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate that had been left in a warehouse for 6 years

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Barack
1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

they are blaming 2750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate that had been left in a warehouse for 6 years

It's a staggering amount just sitting there in that proximity.

 

For reference and scale; Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber, used 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.

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Jambo-Jimbo
25 minutes ago, Gone said:

 

Would he not know about such large quantities of hazardous chemicals sitting in his capital? He must take some blame too

 

It makes no difference whether he knew or not, he won't be the one facing years in jail, that's what subordinates are for, to take the rap.

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Lone Striker

Elf'n'Safety probably isn't high on the priority list for some governments in that part of the world.  There may also be a "dirty" trade in receiving/storing other countries'  dangerous waste for large sums of money - no documents, no questions asked.     Eye-opening video of the shock wave from it.    Tragic for the inhabitants of Beirut, and it's likely to have a knock-on effect by having the port out of operation for a while.  

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His name is

Trump says bomb

 

 

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The White Cockade
46 minutes ago, His name is said:

Trump says bomb

 

 

That almost guarantees it wasn’t a bomb to be honest

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JFK-1
4 hours ago, Barack said:

It's a staggering amount just sitting there in that proximity.

 

For reference and scale; Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber, used 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.

 

Give you another comparison. Some of the largest IRA car bombs weighed around 500 lbs or so and that was enough to cause devastation within a hundred yards in every direction.

This was 12,320 times more explosives.

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JFK-1
9 hours ago, Cade said:

Some of those videos are equal part terrifying and fascinating.

 

The shockwave was brutal and shows the power of gunpowder explosions, which are slower than weapons explosives but provide more of a "push" force than "blast"

 

The shockwave from a blast like that would be absolutely devastating. Picture an almost unimaginably massive vibration passing through bodies. The body doesn't need to be touched by either debris or flame. That vibration will shred arteries and organs.

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Cade

The Halifax harbour disaster in 1917 was of a similar size.

That was 200 tons of TNT and 2,300 tons of Picric Acid which combined for a total explosive force of 2.9 kilotons.

 

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JFK-1

At least 8 seconds between seeing the blast and sound reaching the camera. Over a mile and a half away.
 


 

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Mauricio Pinilla

Can't get my head around the power of an explosion like this. How the **** did they have this stuff just lying around in a city ffs. I mean it reminds me of a volcanic eruption which is just ludicrous. 

 

 

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Harry Potter
10 hours ago, Cade said:

Mythbusters really got into the dangers of dust explosions/fires.

Turns out that powdered milk when mixed with air then ignited makes a giant fireball.

Flourmills have always historically been serious fire risks.

Before i worked down in rank hovis flour mill there was an explosion in

one of the flour holding bins, bin was empty but flour dust ignited by a faulty conveyor

at the bottom(spark) it blew the bin cover in to the car park, lucky no one was injured.

News saying over 100 dead, thoughts with the families, terrible event.

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Cade

Lebanon imports 80% of its grain.

85% of the nation's grain was stored in these silos.
5322.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma5472.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

 

Lebanon's currency has plummeted 80% this year, general inflation is running at 50%, food inflation is much, much higher with supermarket prices tripling, 30% unemployment, government defaulted on international loans, 5million population but 1.5million Syrian refugees currently inside the borders.

 

Lebanon is a fag paper thickness away from complete economic and political collapse.

 

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WoolfordsHearts
12 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Aye, but it's a thermobaric bird.

🤣At last,someone with real bomb knowledge on here.

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tian447

A bomb is possible, but there were multiple fires and things "going off" that looked like fireworks in the smoke clouds.  I'm going to put a link to some videos in a Spoiler below - they are all streamable.com links that offer quite a few angles of the explosion.  None of them show anything particularly NSFW, but I can understand why some people might prefer not to know.

 

 

The explosion is mental.  Huge cloud, huge shockwave.  In Angle #8 in particular, you can see the way that buildings just disintegrate.   If it were a missile, not only would it have had to be a massive payload, there would have been something detected on RADAR, which hasn't been reported.  

 

It could just be sheer negligence, and a series of catastrophic failures.  I doubt we'll ever know, but it's tragic for the people of Beirut.

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Barack

Equivalent to a 3.3 magnitude earthquake it's been stated.

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Cade

Port authority say it started as a fire in Warehouse #9 then spread to Warehouse #12 which is where the Ammonium Nitrate was being stored.

 

The Ammonium Nitrate came off the Rhosus, a Russian-flagged ship in 2014.

The ship was en route from Georgia to Mozambique but was impounded in Beirut due to either a failure to pay port fees or because the ship was not seaworthy (reports differ on this).

The ship was stuck in Beirut and the crew stuck on the ship itself due to the port authorities not wanting them to disappear and leave the ship with its dangerous cargo unattended.

The crew were not being paid because the owner of the ship never came up with the cash to settle the dispute. 

The owner simply refused to reply to all contact.

After about a year the crew were allowed to leave the ship and the cargo was impounded.

Then six years of wrangling over what to do with the cargo.

Then it blew up.

 

 

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trotter
5 hours ago, Cade said:

Lebanon imports 80% of its grain.

85% of the nation's grain was stored in these silos.
5322.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma5472.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=forma

 

Lebanon's currency has plummeted 80% this year, general inflation is running at 50%, food inflation is much, much higher with supermarket prices tripling, 30% unemployment, government defaulted on international loans, 5million population but 1.5million Syrian refugees currently inside the borders.

 

Lebanon is a fag paper thickness away from complete economic and political collapse.

 

Pretty easy to see where the storage building was located in the shot to the left. 

 

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