SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Becoming oh so obvious. Once again it’s all about what they want.

Since Anderson made his offer this thread has been full of ‘why did he have to come up with the money, why didn’t the OF come up with cash for the smaller clubs’. Now they have proposed putting lots of money into the lower league clubs and everyone is calling it bribery. Only on jkb. 

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Since Anderson made his offer this thread has been full of ‘why did he have to come up with the money, why didn’t the OF come up with cash for the smaller clubs’. Now they have proposed putting lots of money into the lower league clubs and everyone is calling it bribery. Only on jkb. 

👍   

[theshed]

I don’t care about the colts as long as we are in top league but let’s face it if our proposal has been knocked back then they aren’t going to change their mind all of a sudden cause the colts team are wanting in 

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

524 v Stranraer this season. That's with novelty value attached. Stranraer had 2 home crowds higher than that and their average was 356. If you tell me they're going to get crowds of around 1,000 for games against colts, I might believe their fans will "love it". I don't see it though.

The problem is there are too many "senior" clubs. There should be 2 senior leagues and if the scum want colt teams they can go and play in regional leagues.

300 away fans minimum, potentially as many as the home club can accommodate. Fee for streaming the game as well, if technology is installed. 
Agree re regional leagues but think you are under-estimating how tough it will be for OF colts to get to championship and stay there. Their colts squad will have huge changes season to season. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

20 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

So, a couple of hours ago all the chat on this thread was about the scandalous Sky/BT claw back of tv cash which was hidden from clubs by the SPFL.

Low and behold,  out of all the alternative proposals Doncaster asked clubs to put forward, the BBC suddenly leak an OF one suggesting their colt teams are admitted to the 4th tier. Cue massive seethe and a change in the discourse.

The pied piper is playing us a tune. 

To be fair there's been a lot of shite on this thread. 

 

Enormous amount of politics in Scotland,  I don't think the offer of a couple of million was ever going to suddenly make us the good guy.

 

I will be frank,  no good would come from us effectively paying our way out.

 

This is as good a get out clause as we get. 

[Zico]

8 minutes ago, Rods said:

I am looking forward to Dave Cormack changing his mind again lol

Dave likes the idea of colts teams but now may or may not be the right time. Actually it’s the right time, just the wrong teams. In fact, it’s the right teams but it’s sunny outside. What that, a cloud? Banana hatstand funk band. When’s my breakfast?
 

Yeah, thanks for the insight Dave you doddery old *****. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Since Anderson made his offer this thread has been full of ‘why did he have to come up with the money, why didn’t the OF come up with cash for the smaller clubs’. Now they have proposed putting lots of money into the lower league clubs and everyone is calling it bribery. Only on jkb. 

Two clubs offer to pay money to other clubs to let their colts teams entry into the bottom league, bypassing the normal rules regarding entry to the league and you don’t think that’s a bribe?  I wonder Spartans and other clubs who have patiently been waiting for a chance to join the league will have to say about that?  Had it been an unconditional offer to put money into Scottish football, like Anderson’s, then that would be an entirely different matter. 

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

Having a larger top division with correspondingly more "meaningless" games will allow more u21 players to get a higher level of experience is just as valid an argument.

Maybe, not sure I agree but happy to disagree. Think both could happen actually. 

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Clearly states Championship is as high as they go.

 

Do we want to pay 125k to have a 2nd team.  Lowland League for 100k less and not a massive difference in opposition. 

 

Offers consistent approach and the opportunity to play against older opponents,  that has to be better than development loans scattered far and wide playing against schoolboys often in reserve games. 

 

They would have left long before now if they could and if they did have feeder clubs here, the power would be gone.

 

Genuinely believe that is a sensible proposition 

Agree👍👍

[Kyle1874]

11 minutes ago, Rods said:

I am looking forward to Dave Cormack changing his mind again lol

He’s a ****ing rat Sick of hearing him and his wee diddy clubs views on anything 

 

 

I feel a bit better now 😂

[Lone Striker]

Although I'm generally in favour of this proposal, I'd prefer  to see clubs put pressure on Rangers to modify it before putting it to a vote.    No promotion to Championship for colts, and a much  longer sunset clause for their financial support .... for example.

 

Interesting to see which types of clubs support or reject this though ... and why !!        Some "smug and condescending" quotes perhaps ?

 

We also need to be aware that wrangling over this proposal eats up time which probably reduces our window for court action. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Since Anderson made his offer this thread has been full of ‘why did he have to come up with the money, why didn’t the OF come up with cash for the smaller clubs’. Now they have proposed putting lots of money into the lower league clubs and everyone is calling it bribery. Only on jkb. 

Some foolish notion we would come out of this like some form of Scottish superheroes. 

 

More money coming out of their pot and into lower League's is a good thing. 

 

Pyramid does need a good makeover,  regional for all but the top 28 clubs 

[TheBigO]

Dbl post

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by TheBigO

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Two clubs offer to pay money to other clubs to let their colts teams entry into the bottom league, bypassing the normal rules regarding entry to the league and you don’t think that’s a bribe?  I wonder Spartans and other clubs who have patiently been waiting for a chance to join the league will have to say about that?  Had it been an unconditional offer to put money into Scottish football, like Anderson’s, then that would be an entirely different matter. 

Look at the nest of snakes we're dealing with here.  Full of vindictiveness, and happy to stab you in the back after being nice to your face. Bribery might be the only thing that overcomes that. 

[Jamie3lb]

13 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Why would the Premiership clubs vote for it though if they were against 14-14-14?

I agree.  That’s why I said no form of recon is likely. The incentive is for the proposed bottom division. Will fail with the prem teams.

 

 

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, theshed said:

I don’t care about the colts as long as we are in top league but let’s face it if our proposal has been knocked back then they aren’t going to change their mind all of a sudden cause the colts team are wanting in 

You underestimate the power of Rangers and Celtic supporting a proposal. Hibs, St.Mirren, just two as an example, immediately fall into line. We have to support it, as will ICT, so it’s 6 for right away. Can you honestly see any of the remaining top clubs opposing it? Why would they? Can you honestly see any lower league club looking a gift horse in the mouth. It’s Xmas for them. Anderson’s benevolence plus colts teams. 

[RENE]

Where would Rantic play their home matches, surely not Ibrox and Parkhead.

[jimbojambo]

I think it's good for Hearts and will annoy our friends from Leith. It may save a few League 2 teams from going burst and Doncaster will ensure it goes ahead. 

[soonbe110]

7 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

To be fair there's been a lot of shite on this thread. 

 

Enormous amount of politics in Scotland,  I don't think the offer of a couple of million was ever going to suddenly make us the good guy.

 

I will be frank,  no good would come from us effectively paying our way out.

 

This is as good a get out clause as we get. 

👍 it’s not our proposal, no self-interest from Hearts. 

[Jambo66]

8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

300 away fans minimum, potentially as many as the home club can accommodate. Fee for streaming the game as well, if technology is installed. 
Agree re regional leagues but think you are under-estimating how tough it will be for OF colts to get to championship and stay there. Their colts squad will have huge changes season to season. 

I don't care about how tough it will be for them. I care about the fact that it's all about benefits for them and stuff the rest of Scottish football. They are offering to pay because they think the return will be better. Nothing else, purely about them.

[kila]

So Old Firm colts help fund third tier clubs, with their guaranteed £50k for tickets, streaming of games etc.

 

Those third tier clubs invest... then one or both colts are promoted. Suddenly all that money going to the third tier stops and Championship clubs see it instead. Is that what would happen? Or would the Old Firm be thinking of Scottish football and continue to pledge to the third tier?

 

Their business model suits them and them alone. Let's not tart this up as some saviour for Scottish football.

 

 

[Jamie3lb]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

You underestimate the power of Rangers and Celtic supporting a proposal. Hibs, St.Mirren, just two as an example, immediately fall into line. We have to support it, as will ICT, so it’s 6 for right away. Can you honestly see any of the remaining top clubs opposing it? Why would they? Can you honestly see any lower league club looking a gift horse in the mouth. It’s Xmas for them. Anderson’s benevolence plus colts teams. 

The only way it gets past the prem teams is if stays at 12 teams. 

[TheBigO]

Look as I say I'm potentially not against colt teams and now I've seen other teams could "buy in", that's a touch better.

 

I still don't like the OF using the situation to manufacture their own goal.

 

And them having colt teams will make their hoovering of talent even worse.   Every kid who shows any promise will be off soon as they whistle

[Fozzyonthefence]

If these colts teams want to play in the senior league why shouldn’t they be made to go through the normal pyramid system, gaining promotions each year, like everyone else?  
 

I take it everyone in favour would be ok with Spartans just slipping Doncaster £125k in a brown paper bag for league entry and saying we can’t be arsed waiting for our chance in a play off?  It’s just like 2012 all over again. 

[Rick Sanchez]

I'm sure our benefactor would like to see us put a colt team out...or you know...we could spend our money better. Damour's contract would pay for it 6/7 times over.

 

Only problem with that is it's only two teams...I'd imagine Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would all like to join.

 

The only problem I have with colts is it'll be 3rd or 4th place that gets promoted eventually, would be pretty weird. That happen in Spain?

[soonbe110]

8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Two clubs offer to pay money to other clubs to let their colts teams entry into the bottom league, bypassing the normal rules regarding entry to the league and you don’t think that’s a bribe?  I wonder Spartans and other clubs who have patiently been waiting for a chance to join the league will have to say about that?  Had it been an unconditional offer to put money into Scottish football, like Anderson’s, then that would be an entirely different matter. 

Maybe however, sadly, in life money talks. In reality Spartans don’t want into league 2 and will never really have a chance of getting there now that the west region junior clubs have joined the pyramid. 

[Jambof3tornado]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

If these colts teams want to play in the senior league why shouldn’t they be made to go through the normal pyramid system, gaining promotions each year, like everyone else?  
 

I take it everyone in favour would be ok with Spartans just slipping Doncaster £125k in a brown paper bag for league entry and saying we can’t be arsed waiting for our chance in a play off?  It’s just like 2012 all over again. 

This.

[Biffa Bacon]

1 hour ago, Stanley_ said:

It'll be a joke if colt teams are allowed in League Two.  None of the fans of those clubs want to see their teams play against colt sides and will likely boycott the matches and the colt teams are likely to get a terrible support as well (there are not tonnes of people out their desperate to see Celtic colts v Elgin City).   It's bad enough having two Old Firm clubs in our league without adding another two.

There aren't enough of them to make a boycott noticeable.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

👍 it’s not our proposal, no self-interest from Hearts. 

Anderson cash would have been used against us, even though he is not directly involved. 

 

The 14 x 3 was of course only a discussion paper. 

 

The last 8 weeks have been epic,  not in a thrilling way,  more bewildering 

[indianajones]

The old firm developing youngsters. 

 

That's the biggest joke I've read on this thread. 

[soonbe110]

8 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Some foolish notion we would come out of this like some form of Scottish superheroes. 

 

More money coming out of their pot and into lower League's is a good thing. 

 

Pyramid does need a good makeover,  regional for all but the top 28 clubs 

👍 especially now that west region juniors have joined the pyramid. Auchinleck, Bonnyrigg etc will replace the Brechin’s and Clydes very quickly, probably in the top 28 you mention 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe however, sadly, in life money talks. In reality Spartans don’t want into league 2 and will never really have a chance of getting there now that the west region junior clubs have joined the pyramid. 

I thought Spartans did want into the senior league?  I was just using them as an example though, the last thing we need is another Edinburgh team with no fan base joining the league like Ferranti Thistle or Edinburgh City.  

[Biffa Bacon]

8 minutes ago, RENE said:

Where would Rantic play their home matches, surely not Ibrox and Parkhead.

I am sure that St Mirren would be happy to accommodate.

[Jambo66]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe however, sadly, in life money talks. In reality Spartans don’t want into league 2 and will never really have a chance of getting there now that the west region junior clubs have joined the pyramid. 

Since when. They applied to join in 2008 and lost a playoff in 2018. Sounds like a team that would definitely want to join League Two.

[martoon]

39 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

Just want to rightfully stay in the top division and then watch the utter meltdown at the piggery. Talk of boycotts and all sorts. Would be delicious. A second relegation party going tits up. Roasters

 

Spot on, fozzy. 

 

We stay in the top tier (where we belong), the scuttlers on Hibs.nest are sick and we consider our position and options at a later date. 

 

We're the good guys, bud. It's the rest that are corrupt feckers. We play their game, as it's the only choice we have at the moment, imo, then we come back at the b@5t@rd5 from a position of strength. 

 

A place in the Championship which may, or may not, start in October makes us weak and wide open to even more injustice. Relegation/promotion scrapped for a while, for example. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If these colts teams want to play in the senior league why shouldn’t they be made to go through the normal pyramid system, gaining promotions each year, like everyone else?  
 

I take it everyone in favour would be ok with Spartans just slipping Doncaster £125k in a brown paper bag for league entry and saying we can’t be arsed waiting for our chance in a play off?  It’s just like 2012 all over again. 

I think you need to take a wider view. 

 

This certainly offers a boost to the teams lower down and if managed correctly could raise standards. 

 

3 League system instead of 4 is a better model. 

 

Only part I am not keen on is playing 2nd tier, but if it is good enough for the Dutch its good enough for me. 

 

Would like to think we could build a colts team to sail through the pyramid 

[JamboGraham]

1 hour ago, Billybuffjaw said:

That's where I am on it, there should be absolutely NO promotion from the bottom tier for any colt team.

 

I don’t see any issue with Colt sides (not just Celtic & Rangers) securing promotion up to the Championship level. In other sports though if the ‘senior’ side gets relegated the colt side also drops a level. (i.e. you couldn’t have both in the Championship, or even the 3rd tier. As long as both squads are separately registered and ‘transfers’ can only happen in the window then I really don’t have much issue with this.

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I don't care about how tough it will be for them. I care about the fact that it's all about benefits for them and stuff the rest of Scottish football. They are offering to pay because they think the return will be better. Nothing else, purely about them.

And Andersons philanthropy? 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

👍 especially now that west region juniors have joined the pyramid. Auchinleck, Bonnyrigg etc will replace the Brechin’s and Clydes very quickly, probably in the top 28 you mention 

Some of these ex junior teams have a lot more potential than the deadwood in leagues 1 and 2. Some of them don’t - not sure what the likes of Hill O’ Beath are looking to achieve. 

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Jamie3lb said:

The only way it gets past the prem teams is if stays at 12 teams. 

Let’s see what happens. The unstated threat of no away fans at OF games next season is very powerful. 

[Jambo66]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

👍 especially now that west region juniors have joined the pyramid. Auchinleck, Bonnyrigg etc will replace the Brechin’s and Clydes very quickly, probably in the top 28 you mention 

The fact that junior football isn't fully integrated into the rest of Scottish football is also a bloody nonsense.

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Look as I say I'm potentially not against colt teams and now I've seen other teams could "buy in", that's a touch better.

 

I still don't like the OF using the situation to manufacture their own goal.

 

And them having colt teams will make their hoovering of talent even worse.   Every kid who shows any promise will be off soon as they whistle

Same as today eg Hickey, Holt, Templeton

[TheBigO]

Ann on the blower. OK, Stu, OK, Pete, we'll back it if you back us when we go after Doncaster and mclennan

[JamboGraham]

12 minutes ago, RENE said:

Where would Rantic play their home matches, surely not Ibrox and Parkhead.

 

I would suspect a ground share with a lower league side. Similar to the old reserve set up.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jong_Ajax

 

Jong Ajax. 

 

Do we want to be like the Dutch or not and get over the small man syndrome on display this evening 

[cameltoe]

I am a big hearts fan but have been told a BIG source we will be demoted, we won't win the court case and will just have to suffer the shit we have been put through because the way wee have been ran over the past 4-5 years cause levein. Yes we have funds to us along with our benefactors to make sure we come out this shit situation we find ourselves in but we will be stronger and better than we ever have. We will suffer for the short term but not the longer term other clubs will.... 

 

[stranraer-jambo]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

I don’t see any issue with Colt sides (not just Celtic & Rangers) securing promotion up to the Championship level. In other sports though if the ‘senior’ side gets relegated the colt side also drops a level. (i.e. you couldn’t have both in the Championship, or even the 3rd tier. As long as both squads are separately registered and ‘transfers’ can only happen in the window then I really don’t have much issue with this.

 

This is the crucial part for me. Their Colts and first teams are either treated as two 'separate ' clubs or this should be a non-starter.

[soonbe110]

10 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Anderson cash would have been used against us, even though he is not directly involved. 

 

The 14 x 3 was of course only a discussion paper. 

 

The last 8 weeks have been epic,  not in a thrilling way,  more bewildering 

Indeed. Fan-owned club worries me more and more. 

[TheBigO]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Same as today eg Hickey, Holt, Templeton

But worse as they'll recruit harder from academies. You bring a kid up from age 9 and they flash their teeth when he's 16 before his first pro contract.

 

 

 

[Haringshairband]

1 minute ago, cameltoe said:

I am a big hearts fan but have been told a BIG source we will be demoted, we won't win the court case and will just have to suffer the shit we have been put through because the way wee have been ran over the past 4-5 years cause levein. Yes we have funds to us along with our benefactors to make sure we come out this shit situation we find ourselves in but we will be stronger and better than we ever have. We will suffer for the short term but not the longer term other clubs will.... 

 

Ur ye aye? Did ye aye?