League reconstruction preference for 'next season'

[iantjambo]

2 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

I’ve been sure for a week or two now that the coronavirus pandemic (which is much bigger than football) would result in league reconstruction - and with it our top-flight status.
 

The current SPFL Punch & Judy show is cementing our position in the Premiership.
 

Instead of hating Dundee, we may come to thank them for their delusions of grandeur.

 

If Hearts don’t stay up now, I’ll dye my hair green!*
 

*I won’t actually do that, but you get how sure I am.

Regardless how it turns out. Dundee can **** themselves.

 

Judas pr!cks sold their vote for their 30 pieces of silver!

[H2]

Just now, MCW1976 said:

I’ve been sure for a week or two now that the coronavirus pandemic (which is much bigger than football) would result in league reconstruction - and with it our top-flight status.
 

The current SPFL Punch & Judy show is cementing our position in the Premiership.
 

Instead of hating Dundee, we may come to thank them for their delusions of grandeur.

 

If Hearts don’t stay up now, I’ll dye my hair green!*
 

*I won’t actually do that, but you get how sure I am.

Staying up is not the issue here, it is the apparent signs of corruption in the SPFL, re-construction maybe their way of avoiding investigations that will uncover wrong doings. We should not be any part of it, we should do the right thing and  vote against re-construction. Or are we to be bribed ?

[MCW1976]

Just now, H2 said:

Staying up is not the issue here, it is the apparent signs of corruption in the SPFL, re-construction maybe their way of avoiding investigations that will uncover wrong doings. We should not be any part of it, we should do the right thing and  vote against re-construction. Or are we to be bribed ?

There are several issues at stake. Hearts staying up is at the top of the list.

[coatbridgejambo]

To late. I have already ordered your green hair dye 

[Locky]

Appreciate the positivity OP, but with these charlatans running the game, I'd keep the beers on ice for now. This ain't over.

[ramrod]

Absolutely zero chance of reconstruction, the Spfl chairmen aren't going to vote that in I'm afraid .Far to bitter and self serving for that . Doncaster and the rest of the goon squad know this and have done Ann up like a kipper . 

[MCW1976]

Just now, Locky said:

Appreciate the positivity OP, but with these charlatans running the game, I'd keep the beers on ice for now. This ain't over.

I’m calling it! 🇱🇻
 

PS. Partick Thistle are 2 points behind QoS with a game in hand. They have a game in hand because they were playing in a cup competition run by the SPFL. They won’t get relegated (officially). It just cannot happen, IMO.

[MCW1976]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

Absolutely zero chance of reconstruction, the Spfl chairmen aren't going to vote that in I'm afraid .Far to bitter and self serving for that . Doncaster and the rest of the goon squad know this and have done Ann up like a kipper . 

She’s wiser than that.

 

I’ll need to wait to be proved right

- but I’m ultra confident.

[MCW1976]

7 minutes ago, coatbridgejambo said:

To late. I have already ordered your green hair dye 

😬

[Cruyff]

[H2]

1 minute ago, MCW1976 said:

I’m calling it! 🇱🇻
 

PS. Partick Thistle are 2 points behind QoS with a game in hand. They have a game in hand because they were playing in a cup competition run by the SPFL. They won’t get relegated (officially). It just cannot happen, IMO.

On the basis that the SPFL have worked it out they are relegated, they have done it on points/game. (another made up theory without justification to suit their own ends).

[queensferryjambo]

9 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

Regardless how it turns out. Dundee can **** themselves.

 

Judas pr!cks sold their vote for their 30 pieces of silver!

 

I get the feeling Dundee have actually done us a favour and done it very intentionally. 

 

I would hang fire on slating them until all the evidence is presented at the end.

 

 

[queensferryjambo]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

 

 

Brilliant  

[Locky]

4 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:

I’m calling it! 🇱🇻
 

PS. Partick Thistle are 2 points behind QoS with a game in hand. They have a game in hand because they were playing in a cup competition run by the SPFL. They won’t get relegated (officially). It just cannot happen, IMO.

The SPFL are ****ing shiting it from Partick and Hearts. Don't think Rangers have much to argue from a legal aspect, but they'll still scare the SPFL because they are shitebags. I don't believe they can put us down, but nothing would honestly surprise me.

[Baldwigforjack]

Two leagues next season. Premiership of 22 and Championship of 20. End of season top 12 make the "new" premiership, bottom half[minus the bottom 3] make the "new" championship along with top 3 from 20/21 championship, the 3 relegated teams and 4th-10th in Championship make the "new" league One and the bottom 10 make the "new" League Two.

 All clubs benefit by having more games next season=more income.

[Restonbabe]

6 minutes ago, Locky said:

The SPFL are ****ing shiting it from Partick and Hearts. Don't think Rangers have much to argue from a legal aspect, but they'll still scare the SPFL because they are shitebags. I don't believe they can put us down, but nothing would honestly surprise me.

Legally it's a total minefield. However the clubs have voted as members to back the preposals.

There isn't a way forward. The whole thing has to lead to league reconstruction. 

Buzzword of the whole scandal is sporting Integrity. 

I've still yet to see any 

[OTT]

48 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

10 team top division. Straight 4 times a season 36 games. 

 

and retain a 20 point gap between 2nd and 3rd forever more. 

 

Boak. 

[chubby1973]

Have Partick & Stranraer been relegated? 

I'm assuming Stranraer where the lge 1 team?! 

[jr ewing]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

and retain a 20 point gap between 2nd and 3rd forever more. 

 

Boak. 

It's all about the money. 

[shaun.lawson]

A very well intentioned thread. But two of the 'options' are permanent non-starters.

 

16 teams = 30 games = too few, and against UEFA regulations.

 

18 teams = 34 games = still too few, and no four OF derbies a season means satellite TV wouldn't agree to it. Nor would the Motherwells and Kilmarnocks of this world who want four home games v the OF; nor would clubs who'd be looking at dead seasons post-New Year year after year. 

 

The only expansion option which TV companies and the top division members would ever accept in a million years is 14. Split after 26 games, before the top seven and bottom seven play each other home and away. The result is 38 games - the norm across most of Europe - and a fair, balanced league. 

 

One down plus a playoff is also about right for a 14-team league. It's slightly too severe for a 12-team one. 

[Nucky Thompson]

I heard a while ago before the lockdown that league reconstruction was happening in season 2021/22.

It had already been agreed for a 14 team top league.

Obviously now with what's gone on that will now be brought forward to next season.

 

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

It's all about the money. 

 

To do what with?

 

We're never outspending the OF. Best we can do is try and change the number of teams so we have to face them less!

 

Minimises the number of points we can lose meaning a consistent run against teams below us could very well see us win a title.

 

Rather sign up to that than chuck the towel in and go to Glasgow 4 times a season for a pounding. Because thats worked so well so far right?

[shaun.lawson]

9 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

and retain a 20 point gap between 2nd and 3rd forever more. 

 

Boak. 

 

Under the old format prior to the mid-70s, Celtic won 9 in a row. Which was why it was changed.

 

Under a 10-team format, Aberdeen won it three times, Dundee United won it once, Hearts were minutes from winning it and remain the last non-OF club to take a title challenge into April. Conversely, in our best points/game season in the entire modern era, we finished miles adrift of Rangers in 1991/2, over a 44-game campaign.

 

The evidence is that the top division was more competitive with 10 clubs, not less. It's also blindingly obvious that the more teams which are added, the easier Celtic and Rangers will find it most weeks.

Edited April 15, 2020 by shaun.lawson

[Locky]

8 minutes ago, chubby1973 said:

Have Partick & Stranraer been relegated? 

I'm assuming Stranraer where the lge 1 team?! 

At present, yes, but obviously reconstruction would surely put an end to that.

[jamboman9]

8 minutes ago, chubby1973 said:

Have Partick & Stranraer been relegated? 

I'm assuming Stranraer where the lge 1 team?! 

As it stands at the moment yes.

[bobskeldon]

Anything that isn’t rigged by SPFL and Sky before a ball is kicked!

 

Anything that ensures that if either of the OF have a bad season and their final position means they don’t play each other 4 times, they don’t get swapped with the team above by Sky so they do!

 

Anything that shares money more equitably across all leagues.

[bobskeldon]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

A very well intentioned thread. But two of the 'options' are permanent non-starters.

 

16 teams = 30 games = too few, and against UEFA regulations.

 

18 teams = 34 games = still too few, and no four OF derbies a season means satellite TV wouldn't agree to it. Nor would the Motherwells and Kilmarnocks of this world who want four home games v the OF; nor would clubs who'd be looking at dead seasons post-New Year year after year. 

 

The only expansion option which TV companies and the top division members would ever accept in a million years is 14. Split after 26 games, before the top seven and bottom seven play each other home and away. The result is 38 games - the norm across most of Europe - and a fair, balanced league. 

 

One down plus a playoff is also about right for a 14-team league. It's slightly too severe for a 12-team one. 

....and if either of the Ugly Sisters finishes 8th?

[OTT]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

Under the old format prior to the mid-70s, Celtic won 9 in a row. Which was why it was changed.

 

Under a 10-team format, Aberdeen won it three times, Dundee United won it once, Hearts were minutes from winning it and remain the last non-OF club to take a title challenge into April. Conversely, in our best points/game season in the entire modern era we finished miles adrift of Rangers in 1991/2, over a 44-game campaign.

 

The evidence is that the top division was more competitive with 10 clubs, not less. It's also blindingly obvious that the more teams which are added, the easier Celtic and Rangers will find it most weeks.

 

The evidence you site was before money ruined world football. Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc. could retain players, now they can't so its not a sound argument. Times have changed, football has changed. Nowadays every player that won the league for Dundee Utd or Aberdeen would have been long gone before any meaningful title tilt could be realised. 

 

Competitiveness means true competitiveness. There has to be a sporting chance of a non-OF team winning the league otherwise the league is pointless. Going to Glasgow 4 times a season where you do NOT pick up points assures continued OF dominance. 

 

I'm not arguing moving to a 18/20 team league is going to suddenly change and we'll have non-OF winners every season. What I'm saying is that it will reduce the impact the OF can have on a challengers season meaning the challenger has just as much chance of winning it irrespective of their Glasgow form. 

 

Celtic and Rangers are both financial powerhouses relative to this league. Having to play them both on their patch twice each is ridiculous and assures no team will ever pose a serious challenge. 

[Marvin]

38 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

Regardless how it turns out. Dundee can **** themselves.

 

Judas pr!cks sold their vote for their 30 pieces of silver!

 

Yeah. Feck them. They bent over and took it right up the farter for the benefit of the GPFL. I hope they go bust at the end of this.

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

money ruined world football

 

That's right.

 

And that remains the case now. Those arguing that expansion would mean a more competitive title race have always been completely kidding themselves. It's exactly because of money ruining world football that most of the time (ie. not right now with Hearts!), clubs punch their actual weight year-in, year-out.

 

So of course there's a huge gap between the OF and the rest: look at their gates and look at everyone else; look at their wage bills and look at everyone else, etc etc etc.

 

And besides: as long as Celtic and Rangers exist, and as long as satellite TV exists, there will never be a move to a 16, 18 or 20 team top division in Scotland. It's only if both eff off to a European Super League someday that real change will ever happen.

Edited April 15, 2020 by shaun.lawson

[OTT]

38 minutes ago, Locky said:

Appreciate the positivity OP, but with these charlatans running the game, I'd keep the beers on ice for now. This ain't over.

 

 

^ This. 

 

We also need them out. Doncaster doesn't get to survive this. The man is an embarrassment and his continued presence within our game is an affront to every fan that digs deep each season to back their team. 

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

....and if either of the Ugly Sisters finishes 8th?

 

The chances of which are zero. 

[Rodger Mellie]

If Thistle don't make any new statements over the next few days, then hopefully that'll be a good sign that they have been given a heads-up regarding league reconstruction.  

[Peakybunnet]

Living in Dundee I have friends that support Dundee and Dundee United. 

 

One friend who supports Dundee sent me this message 30 minutes ago.

 

"Fingers crossed this version of all the conspiracy theories is true. Apparently (if you believe it) this is what Dundee have ‘negotiated’

 

Premier League next season will be 14 teams - Dundee will go up via the play off, they’ll beat Ayr and then play Inverness in July/August to be the 14th team, no relegation's. So similarly, play offs in League 1 and 2 Kelty and Highland League team will make up numbers in League 2.

 

So am told!"

 

I reminded him that I just look back back to 1986 to know there their heart lies!

 

Dundee must have been bribed with something so lets see how Mrs Budge gets on. 

[hmfc1984]

****ing hate thread titles like this! Kind of implies factual knowledge is about to be shared rather than wishful guff that could have been in another thread already talking about this. 

[kila]

25 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

The only expansion option which TV companies and the top division members would ever accept in a million years is 14. Split after 26 games, before the top seven and bottom seven play each other home and away. The result is 38 games - the norm across most of Europe - and a fair, balanced league. 

 

 

A top 7 bottom 7 split would mean two teams sitting out each round of fixtures and not all able to compete on the last day of the season. Would have to be top 6 bottom 8.

 

Or 16 teams, split into top 8 bottom 8 and do 44 games.

[jamboinglasgow]

I have wanted reconstruction for a while but just cant see us getting 11 clubs to vote for it. 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

8 minutes ago, kila said:

 

 

A top 7 bottom 7 split would mean two teams sitting out each round of fixtures and not all able to compete on the last day of the season. Would have to be top 6 bottom 8.

 

Or 16 teams, split into top 8 bottom 8 and do 44 games.

 

Two teams sitting out each round really isn't an issue - or shouldn't be. Also, the chances of the 7th and 8th placed sides at the split ending up chasing a European spot or in serious relegation danger are hardly strong. They're slim. 

[hmfc1984]

1 hour ago, MCW1976 said:

I’ve been sure for a week or two now that the coronavirus pandemic (which is much bigger than football) would result in league reconstruction - and with it our top-flight status.
 

The current SPFL Punch & Judy show is cementing our position in the Premiership.
 

Instead of hating Dundee, we may come to thank them for their delusions of grandeur.

 

If Hearts don’t stay up now, I’ll dye my hair green!*
 

*I won’t actually do that, but you get how sure I am.

So if we go down you are stating you won't do anything? Not that confident then are you 🤣

[merrymac]

1 hour ago, MCW1976 said:

I’ve been sure for a week or two now that the coronavirus pandemic (which is much bigger than football) would result in league reconstruction - and with it our top-flight status.
 

The current SPFL Punch & Judy show is cementing our position in the Premiership.
 

Instead of hating Dundee, we may come to thank them for their delusions of grandeur.

 

If Hearts don’t stay up now, I’ll dye my hair green!*
 

*I won’t actually do that, but you get how sure I am.

Don't actually , if you were that sure you would actually go for it.

Empty claim, should be working for the SPFL

[Kiwidoug]

As things stand, are we now in the position where there has effectively been a decision that the league fixtures in all divisions and the SC will not be completed?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Can we have a there is no chance of it happening anyway option?

[bigsuperslim1874]

6 hours ago, Locky said:

16 is the perfect balance for me. 14 would require an imbalanced split.

 

16 would ensure all 4 promotion spot holders in the Championship come up, and could even appease Bonnyrigg as there'd be gaps to fill. Still personally though, I prefer the though of a 16 team top flight, with a 16 team 2nd tier, and regionalised thereafter. 16 teams would also ensure less midweek games, and a proper winter break.

 

18 I'd settle for, but I just think it might be a bit too big.

100% agree regarding the two leagues and the regionals below. We have far too many clubs in the SPFL.

Edited April 15, 2020 by bigsuperslim1874

[Locky]

6 minutes ago, bigsuperslim1874 said:

100% agree regarding the two leagues and the regionals below. We have far too many clubs in the SPFL.

If you look around nations our size, even bigger, none of them have 4 'professional' divisions. We've tried to copy the English league model too much, which works for them, but that's because they have a population 10 times the size of Scotland.

 

Netherlands have a pretty good model. 18 team top flight, and a 20 team second tier, albeit 3 of that 20 are 'colt' teams for Ajax, PSV and AZ Alkmaar. Below that 2nd tier, it's all amateur leagues and promotion to the professional leagues is optional. The reason many don't take up that option is that they know the jump is quite large, and perhaps unsustainable.

 

All in all, a decent set up and league model, and this is a nation with 3 times our population!

[500ClubCraig]

Two leagues of 18.

 

Three down automatically.

 

Two up and playoff for third spot.

 

As for the other six teams, we may not have to worry by the time football restarts but hopefully not and they simply find alternative league(s) to continue in. 

[third lanark]

1 hour ago, Rodger Mellie said:

If Thistle don't make any new statements over the next few days, then hopefully that'll be a good sign that they have been given a heads-up regarding league reconstruction.  

Unfortunately according to a guy who is usually spot on with the wearethistle forum and has a very good source high up at Motherwell FC Doncaster has ruled Partick a Thistle public enemy number one for threatening legal action and therefore it  is us who will be punished in reconstruction.

there will be 2 up from the championship and Jambos will not be relegated.

But at bottom of championship Partick Thistle will go down and the top 3 of league one - Raith Rovers, Falkirk and Airdrie will go up.

 

Based on the guy posting who has been right on stuff at Partick Thistle nearly every time and that Doncaster is spiteful enough to do this, it sadly would not surprise me if it happened.

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, third lanark said:

Unfortunately according to a guy who is usually spot on with the wearethistle forum and has a very good source high up at Motherwell FC Doncaster has ruled Partick a Thistle public enemy number one for threatening legal action and therefore it  is us who will be punished in reconstruction.

there will be 2 up from the championship and Jambos will not be relegated.

But at bottom of championship Partick Thistle will go down and the top 3 of league one - Raith Rovers, Falkirk and Airdrie will go up.

 

Based on the guy posting who has been right on stuff at Partick Thistle nearly every time and that Doncaster is spiteful enough to do this, it sadly would not surprise me if it happened.

No chance!  That would be even worse than what has unfolded in the last week! Even Doncaster couldn’t pull that off.  Hope you guys continue to go after him until he is hounded out and if Hearts aren’t onside with that, assuming there is a legal route, then I’ll be ashamed.

[superjack]

Someone else said it, 2 leagues, 22 and 20. I know that's 42 games for the top flight. Dont play the league cup and continue this seasons scottish cup from where it is.

[Weonly151]

I voted 14, seems the fairest and best option for TV as well because you'd still have 4 Of matches. As perviously said play 26 games then a 6 and 8 split. 2 relegated and 12th goes into play off with 3rd or 4th in Championship, who would play each other home and away to decide who plays in the final. I'd also like to have just 2 lower leagues of 14 teams with the same set up as Premier league. Keep the cup competitions same format as I think the league Cup is actually quite good the way it is done now. 

[Debut 4]

Wish:-  

Said it for long enough, spread the wealth. Extend the league with previously well supported teams like Dunfermline, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Morton....

Reluctantly you could keep the split (because certain teams would want to keep it)but have less games playing other sides in the first 30 matches. 

Simple home and away until 30 matches. 7 split matches afterwards. Two teams relegated.  Have a bigger championship with 2 automatic promotion spots.  You could still have a play off, 3rd bottom SPL v 3rd top Championship

 

Give the divisions plenty to play for. Not one up one down pish in  a big league. 
 

Reality:-  will never happen. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Debut 4