The next step, and a call to people to put themselves forward

[shaun.lawson]

First, thanks to everyone for your contributions to the July 1 thread, and to all those who've messaged me privately to offer your help and support. It's immensely reassuring to know how much desire there is to do something, and how many Kickbackers are willing to get involved.

 

To update you on where things are at present: what I want to do now is arrange a meeting, probably for the weekend after this, where a small group of six or at most eight of us can discuss the campaign's goals and strategy, before going on to draft a media-friendly document setting these out. At the meeting, we'll finalise exactly what we'll be calling for at the Hull game (to boycott or not to boycott); how open our lines of potential communication to the club should be; the campaign's name (I still quite like CHARM, but am aware of others' objections, so by all means get in touch with other suggestions: Supporters of Hearts Against Romanov's Policies (SHARP) is one, for example); and the best means of raising revenue; as well as delegating various roles to the individuals present.

 

Now - how to go about designating those individuals? What I had planned on doing was ask people to put themselves forward and be voted in by JKB - but I've been liaising with someone with considerable experience of this sort of thing, and he's helped me see the flaws in such a plan. Any campaign needs to be put together professionally and systematically, seek to court various Hearts-leaning members of the media, political establishment, business and entertainment, and be extremely media savvy. Therefore, those people who are initially involved require skills in one or more things such as marketing, finance, IT, graphics, PR, events organisation, business networking and above all, dealing with the media.

 

So in this thread, I'm calling for people to both put themselves forward, and mention what skills they could bring to the campaign. If needs be, we can still put it to a vote - it all depends on how many are interested. And before you do, please take just a moment to ask yourself how much time you think you can spare: this will, I've no doubt, be time consuming, require regular meetings, and for the people in charge of various aspects to be reliable and on the ball. More than anything else, we need to find a media spokesman who is intelligent, articulate, shrewd, brought up in the locality, and with unimpeachable appeal to all members of the fanbase. This person will be the public 'face' of the campaign, and the individual who the press will know they can contact direct for quotes and so on.

 

With regard to this last requirement, if we can't find someone here and now, then I'd like to think that those involved with SOH can point us in the right direction - because it's absolutely critical to the success of the campaign. At this early point, organisation and focus is paramount, and anything that looks poorly considered or like the actions of a well-meaning rabble will lose us respect and credibility before we've even begun.

 

At an intermediate stage (no later than, say, two to three months from now), we'd then be looking to organise a much larger meeting open to all Hearts fans, at which we'd invite ex-players and the media. Hopefully at least some of these would show up; but even if they did not, it would demonstrate our seriousness and intent. We'd also, hopefully, be looking to put on a large-scale fundraising event: a concert, say, along the lines that Das Root has suggested on the other thread. And, of course, we'll be encouraging plenty of initiatives by other fans. Above all, this campaign should be positive, inclusive, vibrant and cheerful: the emphasis being very much pro-Hearts, because everyone concerned about the present state of things will be acting in the name of the club we all love.

 

My apologies for the need to involve specific individuals at this stage. I'm very wary of the perception of elitism that is often thrown at other fans' groups, and want to emphasise what I'm calling for is purely so we can remain as professional and tightly organised as possible. But needless to say, we'll be needing the help of all those who've offered it and many more besides: this is about all Hearts fans, and as mentioned above, just because this group will only have a few members at the initial stage doesn't mean others can't get on with organising their own protests and boycotts - because we're in this together.

 

Thanks again for reading this typically epic post (especially at this time of the morning!), and I hope you understand the reasons for why I'm calling for a particular type of individual to step forward (or, if you can't help but know a Hearts supporter who can, to suggest and/or put them in touch with us instead). We'll be looking to report back on how things are progressing at very regular intervals, both on here (with the mods' permission, of course), and the soon-to-be-established website (with regard to which, thanks again to Das Root for offering the use of his webspace); and an email list is a nigh on certainty too. Now, after one final request that if anyone has any further suggestions, help and so on, please don't hesitate to get in touch over PM, once more, it's over to you.

[Guest jambomickey]

you got my backing and i'll do anything i can to help

[Generic Username]

I honestly hope we appoint a manager next week.

 

This thing has the potential to grow and grow if something isn't sorted out extremely quickly at the club.

[flecktimus]

Your time and effort is being appreciated

[200milesfromgorgie]

Well done Shaun. I am going to give this my full support. I wish i lived up there in order to more active.

[scots civil war]

in the space of a couple of days we have tangible evidence of an uprising

 

from prancer and mr lawson

 

 

 

enough of this "writing a letter" bollocks,here it is, coming to fruition now

 

 

the real stuff

 

 

BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!!!

[PTBCAL]

Shaun

 

Good luck.

 

Just a wee note - a few of the SOH guys met on Sunday at the Orwell. You might want to speak to them to see what they are planning/have in mind.

 

If you want a contact name send me a PM.

[doctor jambo]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

[vilenin]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

 

When we're out of existence cos Romanov got bored with us and shut us down, you can console yourself with ridiculous posts like this.

 

If you genuinely believe that "LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds" are now or have ever been run like we are under Romanov, then I suggest you have another wee think.

 

Unreal.

[tartofmidlothian]

you got my backing and i'll do anything i can to help

 

Ditto. Great job you're doing so far, Shaun.

[EH11]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

 

well said that man!

[Guest jambomickey]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

 

do all those clubs you mention have anywhere as much negativity as us?

[Dr. Bapswent]

A boycott of the Hull game is nonsense IMO.

 

Those who have paid for their tickets, will not give them up.

 

And many fans will not be on KB to hear the rallying cry to abstain.

 

Any protest of any magnitude that is not backed by as close to 100% as possible will look half hearted and slapdash.

 

If your pushing for professionalism, you need to consider this.

 

And I think worrying about putting money in Romanov's coffers is not going to have an immediate effect anyway.

 

So for example, a boycott of the Hull game would be backward and nonsensical. However, taking a LARGE support who all gave out some sort of message would make far more sense. Forget about giving Romanov a few extra quid, its a drop in the ocean anyway, the point of the exercise is the message not the money.

 

As for a name, I would think that there were more important things out there, also, there is one name that already works, and is familiar to Hearts support. SOH. Its really rather simple. If you want backing, that is.

 

And another thing, it would be nice if this was kept open for everyone, not creating another small clique within the support, we have enough 'in the know' PM groups and text message buddies as it is. We are either all equal supporters, or we are not, and some consider themselves better than others.

[Seymour M Hersh]

How are your family, cat, pony, dogs ever going to allow you time for this Shaun if the already forbid/preclude any outside interests?

[doctor jambo]

do all those clubs you mention have anywhere as much negativity as us?

 

 

Yes- perhaps worse

Man Utd fans set up a new club in protest - and they must be feeling silly right now- no?

And liverpool- their fans protest constantly

And Man City were up in arms due to Shinawatra sacking Sven

one new manager later and toys firmly back in pram

Lets face it- fans are fickle, and they can do more harm than good sometimes

Owners come and go, I will still be here when Romanov leaves,and so will Hearts,

but if you corner a bear it will fecking kill you

P off Romanov too much and he will, in all probablility, wipe us off the face of the earth

And if he does- "I told you so"

[CornhillHearts]

Hope you all spend loads of your own dosh on a strategy get leaflets printed, book halls etc then Vlad surprises us all by appointing a decent manager, campaign to continue -no chance-delighted I will be.

[tartofmidlothian]

And another thing, it would be nice if this was kept open for everyone, not creating another small clique within the support, we have enough 'in the know' PM groups and text message buddies as it is. We are either all equal supporters, or we are not, and some consider themselves better than others.

 

You're completely right.

 

Think Shaun already addressed this in his post, though, and of course every 'revolution' needs leadership to avoid the well-meaning rabble he talked about.

[vladsmad]

At this stage I agree with doctor jambo. It won't be long before the big 4 clubs in England are all owned by foreigners who don't have a football background, it's the way the game is going. We were one of the first and have more experience of the pain that results from different cultures and a different way of doing things. Vlad has made a number of mistakes and operates differently to the way typical british owners work. He does need to

think about how he communicates with us the fans however there's no doubt that the scottish media have an agenda to do him down at every opportunity.

 

I think we wait until he appoints a manager and then decide if action is required.

[Cliffundo]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

 

I can not believe you want the best for hearts. Vlad has made his intentions clear, let me refresh your memory with his vision.

 

He wants less communication with the fans. = disgusting and arrogant

He sees Kaunas and Ripo players as our future. = A terrible standard of player

He wants to have control of player and team selection. = unworkable, laughable, and beyond belief.

He wants to sell any player that can make him money. = his overall objection for aquiring HMFC

He wants to sack anyone who's oppinion differs from his. = single minded dictator who has no rational.

 

Vlad is a complete joke and anyone who has faith in him after all this time is clearly derranged.

[tartofmidlothian]

Hope you all spend loads of your own dosh on a strategy get leaflets printed, book halls etc then Vlad surprises us all by appointing a decent manager, campaign to continue -no chance-delighted I will be.

 

Of course. It's been nothing but delight since the Scottish Cup win, hasn't it? What it Vlad appoints a decent manager and he lasts as long as Burley or Rix?

[shaun.lawson]

How are your family, cat, pony, dogs ever going to allow you time for this Shaun if the already forbid/preclude any outside interests?

 

Heh! I've finally distanced myself from my family over the past year, thank heavens; and my cat's on his very best behaviour! I don't have to worry about dogs or a pony - but thanks to both Vlad and Delia, the football teams I support are pretty pony, sadly.

[shaun.lawson]

Why dont you call yourselves HMFC- Hysterical Men for Change?

A lot of Drama Queening going on IMHO

Be careful what you wish for guys, there are many clubs with awful owners, and absurdly poor managers

If you guys manage to drive out our owner (far more likely than getting him to "see sense") you will be directly responsible for Hearts ceasing to exist in all possibility

Calm down, change your underwear and wait- he is at least trying to get a manager

Megalomaniac rich loonie running a football club as his personal toy?

STOP PRESS- that puts us up there with LIverpool, MAn City, Man Utd, Aberdeen, Chelsea, Leeds etc etc etc

 

You know, it's funny. On Tuesday, you were saying this would never get off the ground because Hearts fans were just too damn middle class; now, you seem strangely threatened. Shurely shome mishtake, Doctor?

 

And as for comparing us with the clubs you mentioned: give me strength. How many of those clubs fail to have a winning football team as its first priority, doc? The answer is none. Under Romanov, our priority is 'showcasing' players - meaning he has to interfere, so no manager worth their salt will come here. Unless he abandons this strategy, it ain't going to change either. That you apparently can't see this is quite astounding.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Hope you all spend loads of your own dosh on a strategy get leaflets printed, book halls etc then Vlad surprises us all by appointing a decent manager, campaign to continue -no chance-delighted I will be.

 

Why wish ill on fellow Hearts fans who only want what is best for HMFC?

[Colonel Kurtz]

Good luck Shaun,ignore the snipers on here.

"More is lost by indecision than wrong decision"

[flecktimus]

Yes- perhaps worse

Man Utd fans set up a new club in protest - and they must be feeling silly right now- no?

And liverpool- their fans protest constantly

And Man City were up in arms due to Shinawatra sacking Sven

one new manager later and toys firmly back in pram

esLets face it- fans are fickle, and they can do more harm than good sometim

Owners come and go, I will still be here when Romanov leaves,and so will Hearts,

but if you corner a bear it will fecking kill you

P off Romanov too much and he will, in all probablility, wipe us off the face of the earth

And if he does- "I told you so"

 

In normal circumstances i would agree with a lot of your statement.

 

Its just unfortunate we are further down the line than a lot of the clubs you have mentioned above.

[shaun.lawson]

A boycott of the Hull game is nonsense IMO.

 

Those who have paid for their tickets, will not give them up.

 

And many fans will not be on KB to hear the rallying cry to abstain.

 

Any protest of any magnitude that is not backed by as close to 100% as possible will look half hearted and slapdash.

 

If your pushing for professionalism, you need to consider this.

 

And I think worrying about putting money in Romanov's coffers is not going to have an immediate effect anyway.

 

So for example, a boycott of the Hull game would be backward and nonsensical. However, taking a LARGE support who all gave out some sort of message would make far more sense. Forget about giving Romanov a few extra quid, its a drop in the ocean anyway, the point of the exercise is the message not the money.

 

As for a name, I would think that there were more important things out there, also, there is one name that already works, and is familiar to Hearts support. SOH. Its really rather simple. If you want backing, that is.

 

And another thing, it would be nice if this was kept open for everyone, not creating another small clique within the support, we have enough 'in the know' PM groups and text message buddies as it is. We are either all equal supporters, or we are not, and some consider themselves better than others.

 

SOH is effectively 'trademarked' and connected with something else: namely, getting rid of Pieman. I'm very sceptical whether just copying it would work: especially as what I'm talking about is a pressure group, and this isn't a Romanov Out campaign yet.

 

Names are important, by the way: we need something which connects with the fans, is easily remembered, and media friendly too. Meanwhile - did you not read all my post? I absolutely agree about the problems of creating a small clique: but if this is thrown wide open at this stage, it will be completely disorganised and unfocused. Isn't that obvious given all the disagreements and two-ing and fro-ing on the other thread? I want this to involve as many people as possible, and it to be as broad based as possible - but in terms of initial organisation, basic common sense demands it's kept to a small number at this point.

[doctor jambo]

I can not believe you want the best for hearts. Vlad has made his intentions clear, let me refresh your memory with his vision.

 

He wants less communication with the fans. = disgusting and arrogant

He sees Kaunas and Ripo players as our future. = A terrible standard of player

He wants to have control of player and team selection. = unworkable, laughable, and beyond belief.

He wants to sell any player that can make him money. = his overall objection for aquiring HMFC

He wants to sack anyone who's oppinion differs from his. = single minded dictator who has no rational.

 

Vlad is a complete joke and anyone who has faith in him after all this time is clearly derranged.

 

I did not say I had faith in him (well I suppose I do a bit)

And as for your assertion as to "wanting the best for Hearts" look at what may happen if you all get your way- Do you want him out or do you want him to change- he will not change so you must want him to leave

If he leaves what happens?

His Bank has all our debt

HIs company has all our liabilities

His company owns our stadium

We are so broke no-one else will take our debt on

So go ahead, push him out the door

But if he recalls the debt it will be all of you who killed Hearts, not him

The SOH last time brought him in- and I am guessing you all think vlad is worse than the Pieman

So who are you opening the door to this time?

SOH was to blame for Vlad arriving and thus the current situation to a degree

As long as Vlad is here we survive, and I will put up with a few years of embarassment if necessary so my kids can follow Hearts too

[shaun.lawson]

I did not say I had faith in him (well I suppose I do a bit)

And as for your assertion as to "wanting the best for Hearts" look at what may happen if you all get your way- Do you want him out or do you want him to change- he will not change so you must want him to leave

If he leaves what happens?

His Bank has all our debt

HIs company has all our liabilities

His company owns our stadium

We are so broke no-one else will take our debt on

So go ahead, push him out the door

But if he recalls the debt it will be all of you who killed Hearts, not him

The SOH last time brought him in- and I am guessing you all think vlad is worse than the Pieman

So who are you opening the door to this time?

SOH was to blame for Vlad arriving and thus the current situation to a degree

As long as Vlad is here we survive, and I will put up with a few years of embarassment if necessary so my kids can follow Hearts too

 

Amazing. So what was your opinion when we had to sell Tynecastle because of the debt we'd wracked up? Nothing at all?

[Dr. Bapswent]

I would still like to know whats being protested against and why?

 

I know that seems like a silly question, but let me explain.

 

For starters, I am as much unhappy with things as the next fan, but i just cant see why people are getting all upset now? What has happened?

 

yes we dont have a manager, but we haven't for a while. And VR is now showing that he is properly looking for one. No manager has said that there has been a real issue over control, in fact all the managers have said nothing but positive things about Vlad. The three candidates have all been decent, and Vlad has bene unlucky not to get them.

 

MM - has his own issues and went back to Motherwell. You can say it was Vlads fault if you want, but there really isnt much to explain that one.

 

Weiss - knew he was getting offered the Slovakian job, and wanted to take that instead. Not Vlads fault.

 

Rubber - Too good a coach to come to Hearts, has a pedigree way above us and will be ok finding another job. Is not under pressure to accept this job. So he didnt like the pyramid, thats fair enough, with his level of coaching, he can afford to be picky. But at least this option shows we are aiming at a decent level.

 

So thats whats changed.

 

Frail, etc, is nothing new.

 

So really, nothing much is different from a while ago?

 

So why protest now?

 

And what against? If nothing much has changed?

 

Are we protesting about not having a manager? - and that alone, well if so, all I can see is Vlad attempting to get one, and decent ones at that. Not really something to protest about.

 

Is it protesting about the fact he wont give them control? I still am yet to see confirmation that he wont - within the pyramid system. Again, not something to protest about really.

 

Are we protesting about the pyramid system itself? Why? The players not good enough? Well If the only players we brought in were from the pyramid, id understand, but it doesn't seem to be this way either. Its also something that we cant really change. So again, not something to protest about.

 

This is a new season, and everyone is assuming it will be the same if not worse. And maybe all the evidence suggests that. But it doesn't prove it.

 

What if Hearts win the first 5-6 games? will people still want to stamp their feet then? What if the team perform rather well under whatever management is at the club? Will people still be unhappy.....most probably, but should they be?

 

Football is a results game, and if the results are good, It would be ridiculous to protest.

 

Now ok, the picture i painted is highly unlikely, but the point is...

 

Until I have seen the first few games of the new season, until I have experienced the team playing poorly, without direction or passion as last season, I wont really know that im backing a protest i agree with.

 

Id rather protest against something I know is the case, than on the assumption it will be.

 

Of course the evidence points this way, but there is a due process which I think needs considered.

 

Im not against protesting, but I need to feel the protests are based on sound reasoning, and not just a bandwagon of 'ive had enough' and its cool to bash Romaonv so Ill jump on without thinking for myself.

[doctor jambo]

You know, it's funny. On Tuesday, you were saying this would never get off the ground because Hearts fans were just too damn middle class; now, you seem strangely threatened. Shurely shome mishtake, Doctor?

 

And as for comparing us with the clubs you mentioned: give me strength. How many of those clubs fail to have a winning football team as its first priority, doc? The answer is none. Under Romanov, our priority is 'showcasing' players - meaning he has to interfere, so no manager worth their salt will come here. Unless he abandons this strategy, it ain't going to change either. That you apparently can't see this is quite astounding.

 

Shinawatra is doing the same at City

Wants to bring over Thai players and get them in the team

We have to see what happens

Abramovic brought over Schevchenko due to his nationality and signed the Jewish player that Jose didnt want that precipitated the Great ones exit.

Celtic signed Roy Keane due to his nationality and religion without the manager initiating it

That these players are (or rather WERE )top drawer is neither here nor there as the teams mentioned merely have bigger budgets

That you apparently can't see this is quite astounding

[Guest Maroon Carpet]

Dear Shaun Lawson,

 

Don't listen to those that are against your ideas, you are putting up a good case against this owner, and good luck with it too.

[davieholt]

You have my vote Shaun.

 

It's refreshing to see some intelligence being brought to bear on the problem rather than the usual 'farce, joke, boycott, punt him' reactions.

 

If I can help then feel free to PM

[tartofmidlothian]

What if Hearts win the first 5-6 games? will people still want to stamp their feet then? What if the team perform rather well under whatever management is at the club? Will people still be unhappy.....most probably, but should they be?

 

Personally, I'd be happier. But the way things are now, and the way things finished last season, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we win 1 out of the first 5/6.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

So really, nothing much is different from a while ago?

 

So why protest now?

 

And what against? If nothing much has changed?

 

Because we've been putting up with the same BS for 2.75 years, and as you rightly say, nothing has changed.

 

At some point, it has to reach the stage where enough is enough IMO.

[Guest Maroon Carpet]

I would still like to know whats being protested against and why?

 

I know that seems like a silly question, but let me explain.

 

For starters, I am as much unhappy with things as the next fan, but i just cant see why people are getting all upset now? What has happened?

 

yes we dont have a manager, but we haven't for a while. And VR is now showing that he is properly looking for one. No manager has said that there has been a real issue over control, in fact all the managers have said nothing but positive things about Vlad. The three candidates have all been decent, and Vlad has bene unlucky not to get them.

 

MM - has his own issues and went back to Motherwell. You can say it was Vlads fault if you want, but there really isnt much to explain that one.

 

Weiss - knew he was getting offered the Slovakian job, and wanted to take that instead. Not Vlads fault.

 

Rubber - Too good a coach to come to Hearts, has a pedigree way above us and will be ok finding another job. Is not under pressure to accept this job. So he didnt like the pyramid, thats fair enough, with his level of coaching, he can afford to be picky. But at least this option shows we are aiming at a decent level.

 

So thats whats changed.

 

Frail, etc, is nothing new.

 

So really, nothing much is different from a while ago?

 

So why protest now?

 

And what against? If nothing much has changed?

 

Are we protesting about not having a manager? - and that alone, well if so, all I can see is Vlad attempting to get one, and decent ones at that. Not really something to protest about.

 

Is it protesting about the fact he wont give them control? I still am yet to see confirmation that he wont - within the pyramid system. Again, not something to protest about really.

 

Are we protesting about the pyramid system itself? Why? The players not good enough? Well If the only players we brought in were from the pyramid, id understand, but it doesn't seem to be this way either. Its also something that we cant really change. So again, not something to protest about.

 

This is a new season, and everyone is assuming it will be the same if not worse. And maybe all the evidence suggests that. But it doesn't prove it.

 

What if Hearts win the first 5-6 games? will people still want to stamp their feet then? What if the team perform rather well under whatever management is at the club? Will people still be unhappy.....most probably, but should they be?

 

Football is a results game, and if the results are good, It would be ridiculous to protest.

 

Now ok, the picture i painted is highly unlikely, but the point is...

 

Until I have seen the first few games of the new season, until I have experienced the team playing poorly, without direction or passion as last season, I wont really know that im backing a protest i agree with.

 

Id rather protest against something I know is the case, than on the assumption it will be.

 

Of course the evidence points this way, but there is a due process which I think needs considered.

 

Im not against protesting, but I need to feel the protests are based on sound reasoning, and not just a bandwagon of 'ive had enough' and its cool to bash Romaonv so Ill jump on without thinking for myself.

 

I will tell you what is currently wrong, its the not giving the head coach total responsibilty for team selection, that is what this is all about, I can't believe some people really!!!

[Dr. Bapswent]

SOH is effectively 'trademarked' and connected with something else: namely, getting rid of Pieman. I'm very sceptical whether just copying it would work: especially as what I'm talking about is a pressure group, and this isn't a Romanov Out campaign yet.

 

Names are important, by the way: we need something which connects with the fans, is easily remembered, and media friendly too. Meanwhile - did you not read all my post? I absolutely agree about the problems of creating a small clique: but if this is thrown wide open at this stage, it will be completely disorganised and unfocused. Isn't that obvious given all the disagreements and two-ing and fro-ing on the other thread? I want this to involve as many people as possible, and it to be as broad based as possible - but in terms of initial organisation, basic common sense demands it's kept to a small number at this point.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with the small numbers idea, just felt it was important to restate the fact that fans need to feel part of it, not beneficiaries of some benevolent superfan entity.

 

As for the name, SOH maybe taken, or associated with something else. But its known and effective. So far the alternatives suggestions have smacked of people just wanting to create a wee gang, and have a cool name, rather than as an effective force. The name should be, short, simple and state the point, not be something that is thought too much about, just something to get the job done. Thats where I think SOH, or even SOH2 does that job. Its honest and people can relate to it.

[tartofmidlothian]

Celtic signed Roy Keane due to his nationality and religion without the manager initiating it

 

Oh my god. You really think that? Possibly they did it because... err, he's Roy Keane! Just a thought.

[Erik]

The Revolution has begun......

 

Good luck with this Shaun - you have my 100% backing.

[JAYEL]

I would still like to know whats being protested against and why?

 

I know that seems like a silly question, but let me explain.

 

For starters, I am as much unhappy with things as the next fan, but i just cant see why people are getting all upset now? What has happened?

 

yes we dont have a manager, but we haven't for a while. And VR is now showing that he is properly looking for one. No manager has said that there has been a real issue over control, in fact all the managers have said nothing but positive things about Vlad. The three candidates have all been decent, and Vlad has bene unlucky not to get them.

 

MM - has his own issues and went back to Motherwell. You can say it was Vlads fault if you want, but there really isnt much to explain that one.

 

Weiss - knew he was getting offered the Slovakian job, and wanted to take that instead. Not Vlads fault.

 

Rubber - Too good a coach to come to Hearts, has a pedigree way above us and will be ok finding another job. Is not under pressure to accept this job. So he didnt like the pyramid, thats fair enough, with his level of coaching, he can afford to be picky. But at least this option shows we are aiming at a decent level.

 

So thats whats changed.

 

Frail, etc, is nothing new.

 

So really, nothing much is different from a while ago?

 

So why protest now?

 

And what against? If nothing much has changed?

 

Are we protesting about not having a manager? - and that alone, well if so, all I can see is Vlad attempting to get one, and decent ones at that. Not really something to protest about.

 

Is it protesting about the fact he wont give them control? I still am yet to see confirmation that he wont - within the pyramid system. Again, not something to protest about really.

 

Are we protesting about the pyramid system itself? Why? The players not good enough? Well If the only players we brought in were from the pyramid, id understand, but it doesn't seem to be this way either. Its also something that we cant really change. So again, not something to protest about.

 

This is a new season, and everyone is assuming it will be the same if not worse. And maybe all the evidence suggests that. But it doesn't prove it.

 

What if Hearts win the first 5-6 games? will people still want to stamp their feet then? What if the team perform rather well under whatever management is at the club? Will people still be unhappy.....most probably, but should they be?

 

Football is a results game, and if the results are good, It would be ridiculous to protest.

 

Now ok, the picture i painted is highly unlikely, but the point is...

 

Until I have seen the first few games of the new season, until I have experienced the team playing poorly, without direction or passion as last season, I wont really know that im backing a protest i agree with.

 

Id rather protest against something I know is the case, than on the assumption it will be.

 

Of course the evidence points this way, but there is a due process which I think needs considered.

 

Im not against protesting, but I need to feel the protests are based on sound reasoning, and not just a bandwagon of 'ive had enough' and its cool to bash Romaonv so Ill jump on without thinking for myself.

 

 

Very good post.

 

Thats exactly how i feel about the situation.

 

[doctor jambo]

Amazing. So what was your opinion when we had to sell Tynecastle because of the debt we'd wracked up? Nothing at all?

 

If and when Tynecastle goes up for sale I will protest

I am grateful to SOH for bringing in Vlad

It is not me protesting aginst him

Icould be happier, but I am still of the opinion that as long as Hearts exist things are still better than they were and Vlad is still in credit with me

I was facing Hearts extinction under a local, wealthy HEARTS FAN in CPR

I remain calm and resolute in my support and will not endanger the clubs existence for the second time in only a few years ,because our owner is a moron and some fans cannot cope with a bit of cat calling at work

[Dr. Bapswent]

Because we've been putting up with the same BS for 2.75 years, and as you rightly say, nothing has changed.

 

At some point, it has to reach the stage where enough is enough IMO.

 

Totally fine with that.

 

I just think its a bizarre time for that to happen, pre -season.

 

When the more logical time to decide, would be to give the team a go and then see how its going. Not judge before.

 

If we have waited this long, why not a bit longer?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Totally fine with that.

 

I just think its a bizarre time for that to happen, pre -season.

 

When the more logical time to decide, would be to give the team a go and then see how its going. Not judge before.

 

If we have waited this long, why not a bit longer?

 

My opinion - a lot of people were already waiting longer due to the Jan 1st statement, and due to presuming we were waiting to appoint McGhee.

 

We now know that isn't happening, 6 months have passed since the statement, and even our own stated deadline (30th June - Fedotovos after AGM) has passed.

[Erik]

Totally fine with that.

 

I just think its a bizarre time for that to happen, pre -season.

 

When the more logical time to decide, would be to give the team a go and then see how its going. Not judge before.

 

If we have waited this long, why not a bit longer?

 

And a bit longer, and a bit longer and a bit longer and a bit longer......

 

Sorry Doc, but sooner or later there has to be a point where we say enough's enough.

 

I think that now, we've pretty much reached that point. We've "done nothing" for too long.

 

I for one dont want to ever see another season like the last two. And by doing nothing, we're inevitably conceeding that this season will be every bit as bad as the previous two - we have done NOTHING to suggest otherwise.

[Guest Maroon Carpet]

Very good post.

 

Thats exactly how i feel about the situation.

 

 

So the lack of signings, coupled with not reassuring potential managers that they will have full atomony on team affairs, and hardly ever being over here in the first place, and how he has treated Frail and others in the past, how all of this can make you feel there is no need to make a stance really beggers my belief! this is the reason why we will never get things changed as far as Romanov and Hearts are concerned.

 

Let me ask you folks that agree with Dr. Bapswent's post, are you happy with the few things that have occured at Hearts that I have mentioned above?

 

[bigmeg]

ill participate in anything that is planned

[Dr. Bapswent]

So the lack of signings, coupled with not reassuring potential managers that they will have full atomony on team affairs, and hardly ever being over here in the first place, and how he has treated Frail and others in the past, how all of this can make you feel there is no need to make a stance really beggers my belief! this is the reason why we will never get things changed as far as Romanov and Hearts are concerned.

 

Let me ask you folks that agree with Dr. Bapswent's post, are you happy with the few things that have occured at Hearts that I have mentioned above?

 

 

Why would anyone be happy?

 

You dont have to be happy with it. In suggesting that your just being silly.

 

Is everything that cut and dried in your world? really?

 

Some people clearly want to consider a bigger and complex picture, its ok to disagree.

[Dr. Bapswent]

And a bit longer, and a bit longer and a bit longer and a bit longer......

 

Sorry Doc, but sooner or later there has to be a point where we say enough's enough.

 

I think that now, we've pretty much reached that point. We've "done nothing" for too long.

 

I for one dont want to ever see another season like the last two. And by doing nothing, we're inevitably conceeding that this season will be every bit as bad as the previous two - we have done NOTHING to suggest otherwise.

 

I certainly don't suggest always waiting a bit longer, and longer...

 

But the proof is in the playing on the park....and we haven't witnessed any of that yet.

[shaun.lawson]

I would still like to know whats being protested against and why?

 

I know that seems like a silly question, but let me explain.

 

For starters, I am as much unhappy with things as the next fan, but i just cant see why people are getting all upset now? What has happened?

 

yes we dont have a manager, but we haven't for a while. And VR is now showing that he is properly looking for one. No manager has said that there has been a real issue over control, in fact all the managers have said nothing but positive things about Vlad. The three candidates have all been decent, and Vlad has bene unlucky not to get them.

 

MM - has his own issues and went back to Motherwell. You can say it was Vlads fault if you want, but there really isnt much to explain that one.

 

Weiss - knew he was getting offered the Slovakian job, and wanted to take that instead. Not Vlads fault.

 

Rubber - Too good a coach to come to Hearts, has a pedigree way above us and will be ok finding another job. Is not under pressure to accept this job. So he didnt like the pyramid, thats fair enough, with his level of coaching, he can afford to be picky. But at least this option shows we are aiming at a decent level.

 

So thats whats changed.

 

Frail, etc, is nothing new.

 

So really, nothing much is different from a while ago?

 

So why protest now?

 

And what against? If nothing much has changed?

 

Are we protesting about not having a manager? - and that alone, well if so, all I can see is Vlad attempting to get one, and decent ones at that. Not really something to protest about.

 

Is it protesting about the fact he wont give them control? I still am yet to see confirmation that he wont - within the pyramid system. Again, not something to protest about really.

 

Are we protesting about the pyramid system itself? Why? The players not good enough? Well If the only players we brought in were from the pyramid, id understand, but it doesn't seem to be this way either. Its also something that we cant really change. So again, not something to protest about.

 

This is a new season, and everyone is assuming it will be the same if not worse. And maybe all the evidence suggests that. But it doesn't prove it.

 

What if Hearts win the first 5-6 games? will people still want to stamp their feet then? What if the team perform rather well under whatever management is at the club? Will people still be unhappy.....most probably, but should they be?

 

Football is a results game, and if the results are good, It would be ridiculous to protest.

 

Now ok, the picture i painted is highly unlikely, but the point is...

 

Until I have seen the first few games of the new season, until I have experienced the team playing poorly, without direction or passion as last season, I wont really know that im backing a protest i agree with.

 

Id rather protest against something I know is the case, than on the assumption it will be.

 

Of course the evidence points this way, but there is a due process which I think needs considered.

 

Im not against protesting, but I need to feel the protests are based on sound reasoning, and not just a bandwagon of 'ive had enough' and its cool to bash Romaonv so Ill jump on without thinking for myself.

 

Fair questions, and thanks for asking them. What is the initial purpose of the campaign? To protest against the failure to implement the Jan 1 statement, which, of course, was made amid a backdrop of us having no manager since February 2007, and some would argue, no credible manager since October 2005. The statement was, many fans on here agreed, the acid test: Romanov's last chance.

 

But we're in preseason now - and it's still not happened. We know how rudderless we were last season, something due largely to the lack of a credible man in charge - and any other club would have acted to remedy things. But not, apparently, our own one. Sure, we went after McGhee, and appear to have been interested in Weiss and Rober too: but what about someone British? What on earth would've been the problem with Jefferies, Davies... even, for the sake of the argument, someone like Ian Holloway?

 

At any other point in our modern history, the absence of a manager for so long would've been unthinkable - and that it's still not happened must strongly suggest that Romanov isn't going to change, and still wants to interfere. Indeed, if the showcasing is to continue, he has to keep interfering: all of which prevents the development of a solid, consistent team. Any new manager at any club needs the whole of preseason to implement his own ideas and training methods - yet we just have Cervenkov returning again! Against which backdrop, there's bloody no chance of us winning our first five or six games: or even, in all likelihood, starting well at all.

 

That's the point. Romanov's methods self-evidently prevent us from developing a team anything like commensurate with our standing as a club, all the while the fans are told nothing, pay through the nose, and frankly, are having the **** taken out of them by their own club. Over the last few days, stories have broken that other clubs can't make offers for our players, because they don't know who to contact! What kind of rabble is this?

 

All the board has to do is help us feel valued again - yet we get the less than angelic Cervenkov while Vlad swans off to Milan on his latest quest for power and glory. It has to stop. Otherwise, heaven only knows where we'll find ourselves; and heaven only knows how disaffected the fans will become too. Down south, if I mention I'm a Hearts fan to someone, they invariably either start laughing or mutter "you poor *******"; and fans of all other clubs fear, in their worst nightmares, becoming "the next Hearts".

 

Who's responsible for this? Has being a Jambo ever been a footballing Mark of Cain before Romanov arrived? No, I don't think it has - so it's time to do something about it, for all our sakes.

[Erik]

I certainly don't suggest always waiting a bit longer, and longer...

 

But the proof is in the playing on the park....and we haven't witnessed any of that yet.

 

But that the thing mate, we HAVE..... for over two entire seasons now!!

 

Its not a dig or hunt for an argument - but where is your line? How long are you willing to wait?

 

A few games in to the season?

 

A few months in to the season?

 

Christmas?

 

End of the season?

 

Somewhere in there - there has to be a point where even you decide enoughs enough.....

[brightonsjambo]

Well done Shaun. Wish I had the same drive as you. Just ignore those muppets who believe in the mad one.