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League Reconstruction - Perfect time?

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Mikey1874

Here's another 

 

 

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LarrysRightFoot
51 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Here's another 

 

 

The 3 way split is nonsense - his argument for the middle group is awful. I’m not a fan of splits. 
 

I’d be willing into give it a go just for a change but I’m sure there’s better ideas.

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Zlatanable

League Reconsctuction in Scotland is meaningless, if it doesn't address the power imbalance that Celtic/Rangers/Glasgow has. 

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The Treasurer

People are saying we can't have reconstruction without the "guarantee" of 4 OF games for the TV contract.

Well, as it stands there is no guarantee, only the assumption that both will be in the top half of the league after the split.

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Debut 4
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Anyone who thinks a 16 or 18 team league would be better if than our current setup is delusional beyond belief and obviously wasn't around the last time we had an 18 team league.

Things go in cycles mate.  The 10/12 SPL has been mundane for long enough now. It’s also contributed to the slow decline in previously well supported clubs as the wealth being spread was marginalised.  
 

We moan about the glory hunters that follow the OF but over the years that can be attributed to clubs like Dunfermline, Morton, Falkirk and others...losing more and more local support. How often do you hear supporters say it’s pointless and unexciting following these clubs now because they’ve been blanked and limited?
 

 

Edited by Debut 4

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qferryjam
36 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Things go in cycles mate.  The 10/12 SPL has been mundane for long enough now. It’s also contributed to the slow decline in previously well supported clubs as the wealth being spread was marginalised.  
 

We moan about the glory hunters that follow the OF but over the years that can be attributed to clubs like Dunfermline, Morton, Falkirk and others...losing more and more local support. How often do you hear supporters say it’s pointless and unexciting following these clubs now because they’ve been blanked and limited?
 

 

Reconstruction Even if it’s just a temp measure to ensure more clubs are able to play games against larger clubs for a couple of seasons, clubs could introduce standing areas dynamic pricing things to entice lapsed and new fans , when HMFC needed the fans they responded hopefully that’s the sort of thing that all clubs could tap into when it becomes clearer on This season, they talk of sporting integrity but If this seasons games are completed with teams full of different players and managers later in the year where is the integrity ? 

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martoon

My solution, fwiw.

 

The current placings are declared final and the four league leaders are awarded the respective titles. Rangers and, iirc, Motherwell qualify for the Europa League for finishing 2nd/3rd. Prize money is distributed as normal.

 

Scrap all relegations and play offs. Promote Dundee United and ICT into a fourteen club Premier, the top six in League 1 to a fourteen club Championship and all current League 2 clubs would join the remaining four already in League 1. Eighteen clubs would move up a tier the rest would stay where they are. 

 

Three leagues of fourteen play each other twice, split evenly in two and play the other seven clubs twice. 38 games in total and much more equal and fair.

 

The current 3 game Scottish Cup could either be squeezed in at the start of next season, declared void or shared between the four semi finalists. Either way, no Europa Cup qualification. That would go to Aberdeen for their 4th place league position.

 

Streamline next season's League Cup by reverting back to straight knockout (the current format is crap anyway) and the 2021 Scottish Cup by scrapping replays.

 

Reconstruct again, if necessary, for the '21/22 or, my preference, leave it as it.

 

Best I can come up with. Clubs are rewarded for what they've achieved, thus far, but no one suffers unfairly for the league season being incomplete.

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David McCaig
38 minutes ago, martoon said:

My solution, fwiw.

 

The current placings are declared final and the four league leaders are awarded the respective titles. Rangers and, iirc, Motherwell qualify for the Europa League for finishing 2nd/3rd. Prize money is distributed as normal.

 

Scrap all relegations and play offs. Promote Dundee United and ICT into a fourteen club Premier, the top six in League 1 to a fourteen club Championship and all current League 2 clubs would join the remaining four already in League 1. Eighteen clubs would move up a tier the rest would stay where they are. 

 

Three leagues of fourteen play each other twice, split evenly in two and play the other seven clubs twice. 38 games in total and much more equal and fair.

 

The current 3 game Scottish Cup could either be squeezed in at the start of next season, declared void or shared between the four semi finalists. Either way, no Europa Cup qualification. That would go to Aberdeen for their 4th place league position.

 

Streamline next season's League Cup by reverting back to straight knockout (the current format is crap anyway) and the 2021 Scottish Cup by scrapping replays.

 

Reconstruct again, if necessary, for the '21/22 or, my preference, leave it as it.

 

Best I can come up with. Clubs are rewarded for what they've achieved, thus far, but no one suffers unfairly for the league season being incomplete.

The clear and obvious winner of the fairest solution competition.

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martoon
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The clear and obvious winner of the fairest solution competition.

 

I accept, DM. 👍😉😄

 

All things being equal, I'd rather see a return to the 18 club top league and, to keep things interesting, relegate/promote, say, 4. Quite a lot but 14 would not be relegated compared to the current 10/11 so no harm, no foul. In any two season period 22 different teams would get a crack at top flight football. That would surely, in time, see more locals supporting their hometown club with Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs...visiting semi regularly. Much more likely to stimulate local interest as opposed to the current drudgery of watching decades of unbroken lower league football.

 

A pipe dream, sadly. OFx4, TV, sponsorship...would all conspire to prevent the sense of playing each other twice with no daft splits.

Edited by martoon

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S Form
1 hour ago, martoon said:

My solution, fwiw.

 

The current placings are declared final and the four league leaders are awarded the respective titles. Rangers and, iirc, Motherwell qualify for the Europa League for finishing 2nd/3rd. Prize money is distributed as normal.

 

Scrap all relegations and play offs. Promote Dundee United and ICT into a fourteen club Premier, the top six in League 1 to a fourteen club Championship and all current League 2 clubs would join the remaining four already in League 1. Eighteen clubs would move up a tier the rest would stay where they are. 

 

Three leagues of fourteen play each other twice, split evenly in two and play the other seven clubs twice. 38 games in total and much more equal and fair.

 

The current 3 game Scottish Cup could either be squeezed in at the start of next season, declared void or shared between the four semi finalists. Either way, no Europa Cup qualification. That would go to Aberdeen for their 4th place league position.

 

Streamline next season's League Cup by reverting back to straight knockout (the current format is crap anyway) and the 2021 Scottish Cup by scrapping replays.

 

Reconstruct again, if necessary, for the '21/22 or, my preference, leave it as it.

 

Best I can come up with. Clubs are rewarded for what they've achieved, thus far, but no one suffers unfairly for the league season being incomplete.

Yup, this makes eminent sense. And, as you say, no one is punished for an event that’s beyond control.

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martoon
23 minutes ago, S Form said:

Yup, this makes eminent sense. And, as you say, no one is punished for an event that’s beyond control.

 

Despite what Chris Sutton and the scuttlers on hibs.nut say (who gives a toss, anyway?), reward and punishment don't go hand in hand. No reason why clubs can't gain what they've earned, up to this point, without clubs in the relegation places being unfairly punished with unjustified demotions. Restructuring the leagues, temporarily or otherwise, is the only solution if football is suspended beyond the end of June.

 

I despise Hibs supporters but I'd be stating the same if it was their ludicrous club who were 12th. 

 

Honestly. 😈

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Sir Gio

A lot will depend on when football can resume.

 

I don't think anyone realistically will know that for some weeks to come, the date that is, let alone games being played. 

 

Some emergency rules are going to have to be put in place, do players actually want to play? According to Wayne Rooney and the PFA they don't.

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S Form
24 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Despite what Chris Sutton and the scuttlers on hibs.nut say (who gives a toss, anyway?), reward and punishment don't go hand in hand. No reason why clubs can't gain what they've earned, up to this point, without clubs in the relegation places being unfairly punished with unjustified demotions. Restructuring the leagues, temporarily or otherwise, is the only solution if football is suspended beyond the end of June.

 

I despise Hibs supporters but I'd be stating the same if it was their ludicrous club who were 12th. 

 

Honestly. 😈

It’s not just us. Partick Thistle are in a worse position - they have played one game less than the team above and are only two points behind, yet some people think it’s acceptable that they’re relegated to the league below. In whose world would that be the right thing to do?

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martoon
42 minutes ago, S Form said:

It’s not just us. Partick Thistle are in a worse position - they have played one game less than the team above and are only two points behind, yet some people think it’s acceptable that they’re relegated to the league below. In whose world would that be the right thing to do?

 

Exactly, bud. 

 

There's no such issues at the top of the four leagues (although Raith's lead in League 1 is just a point) so awarding those titles rewards clubs for their endeavours but harms no else. 

 

Relegation is a completely different thing. Hearts, and possibly more so, Partick Thistle can't be punished because of a worldwide event out with anyone's control. 

 

Reconstruction means no one is hard done by. 

 

Rangers, and their fans, will have issues, of course, but they, and Celtic, usually do. 

 

 

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jambo007

BREAKING NEWS Ann Budge says she would support shortening season 2020-2021 in order to complete the current campaign, expects the Scottish Cup semifinals to be played, & feels Scottish clubs should consider league reconstruction More on

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David McCaig
51 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Exactly, bud. 

 

There's no such issues at the top of the four leagues (although Raith's lead in League 1 is just a point) so awarding those titles rewards clubs for their endeavours but harms no else. 

 

Relegation is a completely different thing. Hearts, and possibly more so, Partick Thistle can't be punished because of a worldwide event out with anyone's control. 

 

Reconstruction means no one is hard done by. 

 

Rangers, and their fans, will have issues, of course, but they, and Celtic, usually do. 

 

 

Raith are 1 point clear of Falkirk... Falkirk were due to play Raith at home on the last day of the season!!

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mitch41

Airdrie 10,000 all seated stadium.

Dunfermline,

Raith Rovers, 

Dundee Utd,,

Dundee, 

Partick Th.

these clubs with their grounds that could be filled by playing the top teams in Scotland helping them 

to compete in the Premiership. To play in the top league stadium should be up to a certain standard 

and be able to hold 10,000 fans as a minimum. A league of 18 - 20 is what is needed and with teams 

able to keep their own home gates i don’t see any way the Old Firm could object.

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Kiwidoug

Someone on here once sagely acknowledged that the rest of us are all diddy wee clubs who play at an atrociously poor level and drag R and C down due to the lack of serious competition.

 

His suggestion was a revamped premier league comprising only C and R.  That would guarantee a high level and have the added advantage of also guaranteeing euro qualification although that is virtually guaranteed anyway.

 

The diddy clubs would split into 2 divisions of 18 clubs with promotion and relegation between them.

 

Very good idea imo.

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OTT
15 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

League Reconsctuction in Scotland is meaningless, if it doesn't address the power imbalance that Celtic/Rangers/Glasgow has. 

 

My view of this is that if we only played each club home and away then it reduces the impact the gruesome twosome have on our seasons. Suddenly you're not hitting one of them pretty much every 6 games. It means a run can be put together fairly easily and if you manage to get through them unscathed then you could very well have a title tilt on your hands. 

 

Scottish football needs to do this for the fans. They are the life blood of the game making up around 40% of most clubs annual revenue. As stakeholders their views must be considered. If Sky no longer want the remaining OF, derbies and games involving the OF then fine. Launch our own online channel. If it succeeds then suddenly Sky have a very big problem on their hands with regards to the EPL. 

 

You cannot overcome the power imbalance the OF have due to financial resources they have. You can though, attempt to level the playing field through the structure by ensuring that you're not having to overcome them to win the title. As things stand to win the league 24 points sit in Glasgow. Under a revised system this significance would be massively reduced levelling the playing field massively.

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LarrysRightFoot

Mentioned this on another thread but probably better here.

 

Just had a quick look at the UEFA conference league details. 
 

Based on a coefficient ranking of 20 (2018/19) we will get 3 places. 
 

Now assuming a top 3 club wins (which has happened at least 3 times in a row) the Scottish cup that would mean the Premiership would get 7 European spots (1 CL, 3 Europa League and 3 Conference League).
 

So in the current abomination of a league format you would have a ‘bottom 6 team’ getting into Europe!

 

You would also have 9 places in a12 team league that are ‘meaningful’ which seems a bit of a joke to be honest.
 

Surely this has to be taken into consideration given the new competition is due to start after 2020/21.

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underwaterwoodwelder

Just have a full year of Tennets 6s. 
It would be better than the current league set up.

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LarrysRightFoot
12 minutes ago, underwaterwoodwelder said:

Just have a full year of Tennets 6s. 
It would be better than the current league set up.

With you on that.

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mitch41
Posted (edited)

Ok let’s get some comments on this. An 18 team SPFL going by the league as it stands. 
Celtic Rangers Motherwell Aberdeen Livingston Hibernian St Johnstone Kilmarnock St Mirren Ross County Hamilton Hearts 

Dundee United Inverness CT Dundee Ayr United Dunfermline Arbroath

 

Now after each team playing 34 league games the league splits into 3 sections.

Section 1. The teams that finish in the top 4 will play each other home and away giving them a total of 40 league games.

Section 2. The teams that finish in positions 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11will play each other once giving each team a total of 40 league games.

Section 3. The teams that finish in positions 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 will play each other once as Section 2. 40 league games.

The bottom 2 or 3 will be relegated into the Championship depending on an agreement with the member clubs/league.

 

Section 2. and 3. that will play each other once after the split (34 league games) can be roughly the same format as the way the League Cup was played. 
 

As you can see there will be something to play for after the 34 league games with a league title, European football and relegation.

There must be a bit of tweaking here and there but I can’t see why clubs wouldn’t welcome a more competitive league.

Edited by mitch41

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LarrysRightFoot
39 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Ok let’s get some comments on this. An 18 team SPFL going by the league as it stands. 
Celtic Rangers Motherwell Aberdeen Livingston Hibernian St Johnstone Kilmarnock St Mirren Ross County Hamilton Hearts 

Dundee United Inverness CT Dundee Ayr United Dunfermline Arbroath

 

Now after each team playing 34 league games the league splits into 3 sections.

Section 1. The teams that finish in the top 4 will play each other home and away giving them a total of 40 league games.

Section 2. The teams that finish in positions 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11will play each other once giving each team a total of 40 league games.

Section 3. The teams that finish in positions 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 will play each other once as Section 2. 40 league games.

The bottom 2 or 3 will be relegated into the Championship depending on an agreement with the member clubs/league.

 

Section 2. and 3. that will play each other once after the split (34 league games) can be roughly the same format as the way the League Cup was played. 
 

As you can see there will be something to play for after the 34 league games with a league title, European football and relegation.

There must be a bit of tweaking here and there but I can’t see why clubs wouldn’t welcome a more competitive league.

No splitting into sections. It’s a league - the winner is decided after playing every team an equal amount of times.

 

Whilst I could accept an 18 top flight my argument against it would be there wouldn’t be as much depth outside it. 
 

With a 16 top flight - assuming the top 4 from this seasons championship came - would mean you would still have decent quality and size of clubs in the league below. Dunfermline, Partick, Morton, Falkirk, Queens. 

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mitch41
11 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

No splitting into sections. It’s a league - the winner is decided after playing every team an equal amount of times.

 

Whilst I could accept an 18 top flight my argument against it would be there wouldn’t be as much depth outside it. 
 

With a 16 top flight - assuming the top 4 from this seasons championship came - would mean you would still have decent quality and size of clubs in the league below. Dunfermline, Partick, Morton, Falkirk, Queens. 

Although money could probably be spread more evenly giving teams like Morton and Ayr United a chance to attract investment for better players and improving their stadiums. 

I don't want teams to go bankrupt we should all be trying to make Scottish football the best it can be. I believe the 18 team league i've produced could be an exciting league. There's nothing wrong with and every team will have the same amount of home games per season unlike the present setup.

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LarrysRightFoot
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Although money could probably be spread more evenly giving teams like Morton and Ayr United a chance to attract investment for better players and improving their stadiums. 

I don't want teams to go bankrupt we should all be trying to make Scottish football the best it can be. I believe the 18 team league i've produced could be an exciting league. There's nothing wrong with and every team will have the same amount of home games per season unlike the present setup.

That’s fine mate, I just don’t agree. I think a league should be simple and the winner decided in a straightforward manner. 
 

I really don’t want any clubs going to the wall either. 
 

I think a 16 team top flight with (at least) 6 European places and 3 relegation (2 automatic and 1 playoff) places with multiple derbies would be a great format with the potential to produce excitement whilst retaining a bit of leeway to encourage teams to play/develop youngsters. 
 

FWIW I’d go 3 leagues if 16 and have colt/reserves teams able to join the Highland and Lowland leagues. 
 

Make group stages in the IRN BRU cup to compensate for the loss of home league games (bearing in mind the guarantee of 2 LC home games already).

Edited by LarrysRightFoot

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CJGJ
34 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

That’s fine mate, I just don’t agree. I think a league should be simple and the winner decided in a straightforward manner. 
 

I really don’t want any clubs going to the wall either. 
 

I think a 16 team top flight with (at least) 6 European places and 3 relegation (2 automatic and 1 playoff) places with multiple derbies would be a great format with the potential to produce excitement whilst retaining a bit of leeway to encourage teams to play/develop youngsters. 
 

FWIW I’d go 3 leagues if 16 and have colt/reserves teams able to join the Highland and Lowland leagues. 
 

Make group stages in the IRN BRU cup to compensate for the loss of home league games (bearing in mind the guarantee of 2 LC home games already).

Sorry but we don't have enough teams with enough quality for the numbers we have now.

 

To think of an increase is just madness 

 

Increasing the top league beyond 14 is just equally wrong. Once more quality is the issue and there are not enough sides to produce the quality which would give serious competition to others.

 

If you had seen the nonsense the 18 team league became then realised it would be worse because home sides keep their income from the gates increasing the financial disparity and hence quality there would be no chat of greatly increasing the top league

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Anything2
31 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Sorry but we don't have enough teams with enough quality for the numbers we have now.

 

To think of an increase is just madness 

 

Increasing the top league beyond 14 is just equally wrong. Once more quality is the issue and there are not enough sides to produce the quality which would give serious competition to others.

 

If you had seen the nonsense the 18 team league became then realised it would be worse because home sides keep their income from the gates increasing the financial disparity and hence quality there would be no chat of greatly increasing the top league

The gate receipts probably do need looked at as well. I understand why the OF don't want to give a share of their fans money to the away team in the same way that we would feel agrived giving a share of our gate to Hamilton or Livingston but at the other end it makes teams like Kilmarnock and St Johnstone flog 3/4 of their stadium to the away fans which doesn't feel right either. It's not like I visit Rugby Park because I fancy seeing Killie play, it's only because they happen to be playing Hearts and so you could make a case for the away team getting some of the gate money. What was the old split, was it 50/50 or 75 to the home team 25 to the away? 

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LarrysRightFoot
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Sorry but we don't have enough teams with enough quality for the numbers we have now.

 

To think of an increase is just madness 

 

Increasing the top league beyond 14 is just equally wrong. Once more quality is the issue and there are not enough sides to produce the quality which would give serious competition to others.

 

If you had seen the nonsense the 18 team league became then realised it would be worse because home sides keep their income from the gates increasing the financial disparity and hence quality there would be no chat of greatly increasing the top league

That’s just it mate I’m not old enough - you need to be in your 50s to remember it.
 

At least 2 generations have only known 10 or 12 team 4 times a season format. I don’t think I’d be contradicted if I said the vast majority of us are sick of it. 

 

I get why the format was changed and for about 15 years it worked - however for 30 it hasn’t. I really don’t think anyone can argue the whole of Scottish football needs to be reviewed and the structure is integral to the whole thing. 
 

The game has changed but the facts are there were 7 different winners of the league between 1945 and 1975 (though Celtic won 9 in a row) but since there have only been 4 winners in 45 years and 2 in 35!

 

i don’t buy the argument about not having enough quality out with the top flight make it up to 16 teams. It took Rangers 2 attempts to get out of the Championship, Hibs 3(?), Dundee Utd 4 (?) and it’ll take Dundee at least another one. 
 

You have ICT and Dunfermline in the Championship who have history as top flight teams - ICT in particular as a competitive one. You have Morton and Ayr who have decent supports and I doubt QotS have a smaller budget than Hamilton. Then in League you have Falkirk and Raith - even Airdrie. 
 

As I said the game and world are totally different to what they were in 1975 but what you can’t argue against is our game has went backwards in that time. Our structure needs freshened up along with the whole thinking behind Scottish football.

Edited by LarrysRightFoot

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CJGJ
1 hour ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

That’s just it mate I’m not old enough - you need to be in your 50s to remember it.
 

At least 2 generations have only known 10 or 12 team 4 times a season format. I don’t think I’d be contradicted if I said the vast majority of us are sick of it. 

 

I get why the format was changed and for about 15 years it worked - however for 30 it hasn’t. I really don’t think anyone can argue the whole of Scottish football needs to be reviewed and the structure is integral to the whole thing. 
 

The game has changed but the facts are there were 7 different winners of the league between 1945 and 1975 (though Celtic won 9 in a row) but since there have only been 4 winners in 45 years and 2 in 35!

 

i don’t buy the argument about not having enough quality out with the top flight make it up to 16 teams. It took Rangers 2 attempts to get out of the Championship, Hibs 3(?), Dundee Utd 4 (?) and it’ll take Dundee at least another one. 
 

You have ICT and Dunfermline in the Championship who have history as top flight teams - ICT in particular as a competitive one. You have Morton and Ayr who have decent supports and I doubt QotS have a smaller budget than Hamilton. Then in League you have Falkirk and Raith - even Airdrie. 
 

As I said the game and world are totally different to what they were in 1975 but what you can’t argue against is our game has went backwards in that time. Our structure needs freshened up along with the whole thinking behind Scottish football.

actually I can argue that the game has not gone backwards

 

The world has changed ,new countries have been formed, competition is greater, talent moves around far more than in the 70's,finance is totally different...todays sides would on the whole be far better than those in the 70's. This seasons side poor though it has been would hammer our sides of the 70's.

Asia, Africa for example now have players on the world stage..rather than countries like Zaire who even had a player running out of a wall to kick the ball upfield in 1974

Competition is just so much greater and with knock out tournament play being replaced by group stages initially in Europe the better sides have a far greater chance of qualifying for the later stages

The world has advanced and developed but that was always going to happen as time moved on..it does not mean that our players are worse or our teams given we import many of a clubs players as well but simply due to investment , scouting, development and the natural evolution of countries we of course look like we are standing still as our improvement can only be so small in comparison to countries in the 70's and of course the new European countries in the 80's and 90's

 

We could have been in the top 9 in Europe in 1974 but the number of European countries was far lower and some of the major countries who fell apart had a greater depth of player who could now play for what they saw as their home country

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mitch41
Posted (edited)

It can be a bit repetitive playing the same teams 4 times a season. When many of our fans started going to away games you were going to grounds and towns you would probably never visit. Teams like Ayr United, Morton, Stirling, Montrose, Arbroath, Dumbarton etc were fun and Hearts always had the bigger support which was great with your pals and school mates. A crowd of you could all stand together on the terracing and going to the games with a supporters bus or getting the football specials from St Andrew’s Bus Station. 
A larger league was also great for up and coming players. The experience you gain from playing against the top teams can be good for the standard of football in our country. Many young players played at the highest level in England, Germany as well as our national team. Ayr, Morton, Partick, Dumbarton, Queens Park, Clyde, as so on produced outstanding players who learned the game the right way.

Edited by mitch41

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Pete McGee

1st post, I've read enough of this site to know I'll get a lot of criticism but hey you've gotta take the rough with the smooth. But if you can, go easy...PLEASE 😀

Chatting to family who support other clubs in the SPL last night and I thought of a 14 team top league.

Play each other home and away, then split into top 6 and bottom 8 with home and away again.

However the different idea I have is, the teams all start at the zero points at the split. 

Exciting times ahead as its almost like the league starting again, hardly any meaningless games as top 6 fight again for champions and European places while bottom 8 ( more games to make up for likely lower crowds)  fight for relegation.

Now I know there is the unfairness for those that may be safe from relegation at the break and those that might have a gap in the title race or European place but all teams have the same advantage/disadvantage at the start.

 

I know its too radical bit I thought I'd put it out there for debate.

Personally, I think its a winner with selling it to tv as its definitely adds excitement and they will most probably get their 4 OF games along with a lot more meaningful games.

 

 

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whyskey

JUST A THOUGHT ABOUT THE 14-14-14 LEAGUE SET UP, SOMETIMES ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL, BECAUSE THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS TO HAVE 4 RANTIC GAMES AND HAVING A 6-8 SPLIT. wHY DOES THE OTHER TWO LEAGUES HAVE TO BE THE SAME, AT THE START OF EACH SEASON THE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS COULD VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT FORMAT, SAY THEY COULD VOTE  TO PLAY EACH OTHER THREE TIMES  GIVING A 39 LEAGUE SEASON.THE THIRD TIER COULD DO THE SAME, THEY COULD EVEN THINK OF DIFFERENT FORMATS AT THE START OF EACH SEASON. THIS GIVES THE LOWER LEAGUES MORE SAY IN THE RUNNING OF THERE LEAGUES. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE.  

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David McCaig
1 hour ago, whyskey said:

JUST A THOUGHT ABOUT THE 14-14-14 LEAGUE SET UP, SOMETIMES ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL, BECAUSE THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS TO HAVE 4 RANTIC GAMES AND HAVING A 6-8 SPLIT. wHY DOES THE OTHER TWO LEAGUES HAVE TO BE THE SAME, AT THE START OF EACH SEASON THE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS COULD VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT FORMAT, SAY THEY COULD VOTE  TO PLAY EACH OTHER THREE TIMES  GIVING A 39 LEAGUE SEASON.THE THIRD TIER COULD DO THE SAME, THEY COULD EVEN THINK OF DIFFERENT FORMATS AT THE START OF EACH SEASON. THIS GIVES THE LOWER LEAGUES MORE SAY IN THE RUNNING OF THERE LEAGUES. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE.  

3 rounds of fixtures is the preferred model in the lower divisions

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Byyy The Light
16 hours ago, Pete McGee said:

1st post, I've read enough of this site to know I'll get a lot of criticism but hey you've gotta take the rough with the smooth. But if you can, go easy...PLEASE 😀

Chatting to family who support other clubs in the SPL last night and I thought of a 14 team top league.

Play each other home and away, then split into top 6 and bottom 8 with home and away again.

However the different idea I have is, the teams all start at the zero points at the split. 

Exciting times ahead as its almost like the league starting again, hardly any meaningless games as top 6 fight again for champions and European places while bottom 8 ( more games to make up for likely lower crowds)  fight for relegation.

Now I know there is the unfairness for those that may be safe from relegation at the break and those that might have a gap in the title race or European place but all teams have the same advantage/disadvantage at the start.

 

I know its too radical bit I thought I'd put it out there for debate.

Personally, I think its a winner with selling it to tv as its definitely adds excitement and they will most probably get their 4 OF games along with a lot more meaningful games.

 

 


If you were going down that route you’d be better halving the points as they do in some other leagues 

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kila
5 hours ago, whyskey said:

JUST A THOUGHT ABOUT THE 14-14-14 LEAGUE SET UP, SOMETIMES ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL, BECAUSE THE PREMIER LEAGUE HAS TO HAVE 4 RANTIC GAMES AND HAVING A 6-8 SPLIT. wHY DOES THE OTHER TWO LEAGUES HAVE TO BE THE SAME, AT THE START OF EACH SEASON THE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS COULD VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT FORMAT, SAY THEY COULD VOTE  TO PLAY EACH OTHER THREE TIMES  GIVING A 39 LEAGUE SEASON.THE THIRD TIER COULD DO THE SAME, THEY COULD EVEN THINK OF DIFFERENT FORMATS AT THE START OF EACH SEASON. THIS GIVES THE LOWER LEAGUES MORE SAY IN THE RUNNING OF THERE LEAGUES. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE.  

 

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Letting the lower leagues decide which format they use for 14 teams is a reasonable thing.

 

There is also that 14-14-14 format that was floated a while ago (fake PowerPoint slides I thought though maybe there was some merit there) where at the split there is a top 8, with the bottom 8 consisting of the top two teams from the Championship and so on.

 

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Pete McGee

Byyy the light, most definitely open to alternatives.

As in the posts below mine by Whyskey  and Kila have mentioned. Scottish football needs a change and sometimes it needs to be radical and other times little tweaks to get the most out of it.

But to do this, I believe the SPFL/SFA need freshening up, new people, new ideas and clubs need to start working with each other, not trying to shaft each other. 

That's possibly wishful thinking though.

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OTT
4 hours ago, Pete McGee said:

Byyy the light, most definitely open to alternatives.

As in the posts below mine by Whyskey  and Kila have mentioned. Scottish football needs a change and sometimes it needs to be radical and other times little tweaks to get the most out of it.

But to do this, I believe the SPFL/SFA need freshening up, new people, new ideas and clubs need to start working with each other, not trying to shaft each other. 

That's possibly wishful thinking though.

 

In the aftermath of this there needs to be change. Absolutely. 

 

I still think we need to move away from this faux democracy. There are too many cooks and its spoiling the product. We need a CEO who can come in with the power to make sweeping changes. Getting clubs like St Johnstone off the OF teet would be a good start. Clubs should be spending within their means based on their 'organic' income, i.e what the fans put in via ticket money, commercial income and the TV money. Relying on away fans to fund your club is embarrassing. Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Celtic and Rangers fans did not sign up to be surrogate St Johnstone fans. They should be standing squarely on their own two feet. Then, maybe they'd be able to vote with Scottish footballs best interests at heart. 

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Hectormasson
On 16/03/2020 at 02:13, Zlatanable said:

League Reconsctuction in Scotland is meaningless, if it doesn't address the power imbalance that Celtic/Rangers/Glasgow has. 

Well put , but if it keeps us up ,  full steam ahead 🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦🇶🇦

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colinmaroon

Doncaster shaking in his brothel creepers!

 

Llawell had informal talks with Dominic Cummings in Barnards Castle.

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Hearts1975
On 15/03/2020 at 02:05, Victorian said:

Perfect time?

 

Answer - yes.     For only one reason.    Because it is the ONLY solution to the existing set of circumstances.

 

League reconstruction,   not because it is desired but because it presents as a sole solution to a crisis.

 

The end.

It covers up the SPFL being exposed for what they really are and a potential public insight into the specific dealings that they have presided over recently. 

It is for no other reason

If we couldn't or hadn't threatened court action this wouldn't have happened IMO

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Special Officer Doofy

I always find it a bit of a paradox that we are told that there is no requirement about the number of OF games in the TV deals, and then the minute someone mentions enlarging the top division, the first argument against it, is always that we would lose the TV deal. 
 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy

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gavin1985
1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I always find it a bit of a paradox that we are told that there is no requirement about the number of OF games in the TV deals, and then the minute someone mentions enlarging the top division, the first argument against it, is always that we would lose the TV deal. 
 

 

Couldn’t agree more. It’s always down to the diddy teams not wanting to lose a precious home game against either of the OF. Which is ******* retarded, why would they want to ensure another guaranteed defeat rather than against a team they stand a chance with. 
 

The whole but TV needs 4 OF games a season is bullsh!t. Self interest on short term cash instead of a competitive league.

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Anything2
19 minutes ago, gavin1985 said:

Couldn’t agree more. It’s always down to the diddy teams not wanting to lose a precious home game against either of the OF. Which is ******* retarded, why would they want to ensure another guaranteed defeat rather than against a team they stand a chance with. 
 

The whole but TV needs 4 OF games a season is bullsh!t. Self interest on short term cash instead of a competitive league.

The other thing that I wonder, is if Sky are able to dictate league structures to this extent, given that they kind of gave birth to the modern EPL, why did they stop trimming the league at 20? Surely if it was all about getting the best viewing figures then it could have been cut further or had some kind of top 4 or top 6 playoffs as those are usually the big draw teams. Perhaps it suits the powers that be in Scotland to have 4 high revenue generating fixtures per season for certain clubs as much as it suits the TV broadcasters. 

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Debut 4
35 minutes ago, gavin1985 said:

Couldn’t agree more. It’s always down to the diddy teams not wanting to lose a precious home game against either of the OF. Which is ******* retarded, why would they want to ensure another guaranteed defeat rather than against a team they stand a chance with. 
 

The whole but TV needs 4 OF games a season is bullsh!t. Self interest on short term cash instead of a competitive league.

It’s excruciating. The whole game, never mind just the SPFL and SFA, needs ripped apart.

 

The short term-ism is as stunting as anything else. Small club owners don’t care about the quality, as long as they’ve got the cash coming in. Then, you wonder how much these slithery crooks trouser and don’t reinvest in their club? 
 

I know we are a small nation, support levels and club size take quite a steep dip when you start getting past roughly 7 or 8 teams but there’s still support out there to be drawn back to the game if only someone had the vision and hunger to go and get it. 

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Anything2

The other thing about the whole structure of the sport in Scotland is that that most smaller nations view the international game as being the barometer of success or at least it feels like that as an outsider looking in. Countries like Slovenia or Iceland have qualified for major tournaments recently and I wonder if that is because that's where they focus their efforts as opposed to Scotland where there is a dream to compete in Europe or to match the EPL which is quite fanciful now a days. I don't know what difference it would make or what practically they do differently but it seems to make a huge difference to international results. Of the major leagues you can compare Germany to England, German people that I have spoken to over the years tend to say that Germany winning the world cup is the ultimate goal, not Bayern winning the champions league. In England much like Scotland, it seems to be club over country. 

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gavin1985

Even the chairman of Ayr would want an 18 or 20 championship 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11781/11994220/ayr-united-chairman-lachlan-cameron-wont-back-14-team-premiership

 

"I think it would be ideal to have a 20-team Championship, I think it would be more entertaining for the supporters, (so) they don't get bored of seeing the same teams four times a year minimum.

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Barack
1 minute ago, gavin1985 said:

Even the chairman of Ayr would want an 18 or 20 championship 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11781/11994220/ayr-united-chairman-lachlan-cameron-wont-back-14-team-premiership

 

"I think it would be ideal to have a 20-team Championship, I think it would be more entertaining for the supporters, (so) they don't get bored of seeing the same teams four times a year minimum.

Had a lot to say recently that chap. Must be enjoying his new-found popularity/relevance.

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David McCaig
9 minutes ago, Barack said:

Had a lot to say recently that chap. Must be enjoying his new-found popularity/relevance.

The SPFL should be telling clubs like Ayr to be ready to play in mid-July and make the necessary adjustments for a full season of BCD football if they start playing silly buggers.

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