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LarrysRightFoot

League Reconstruction - Perfect time?

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Mikey1874
3 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

 Chick Dung has just touched on this and I don’t really agree with his solution but what happens with players contracts.

 

Postponement won’t work as players will be out of contract by the time play would resume. How would that affect games?
 

Also the transfer window what would happen with that? 

 

I think UEFA / FIFA will suspend or amend transfer windows.

 

Contracts could be extended as they also said on the radio but it is a major issue. 

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gjcc

Hearts get relegated then we risk losing players we didn’t necessarily want to lose (arguably not that many of them!) due to contract clauses. I can deal with that if it was mathematically impossible to stay up. But that’s far from the case just now. 
 

Whatever happens, some teams are going to get completely shafted. 

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LarrysRightFoot
11 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Hearts get relegated then we risk losing players we didn’t necessarily want to lose (arguably not that many of them!) due to contract clauses. I can deal with that if it was mathematically impossible to stay up. But that’s far from the case just now. 
 

Whatever happens, some teams are going to get completely shafted. 

Tbh in financial sense and then potentially for players we might be a better bet than a lot of clubs because of the FOH.

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gjcc
Just now, LarrysRightFoot said:

Tbh in financial sense and then potentially for players we might be a better bet than a lot of clubs because of the FOH.


More thank likely, but “it’s alright the Hearts fans will pay” shouldn’t come into it. Particularly when large swathes of us could end up out of work or on SSP. If Dundee Utd are at risk of going bust through this it’s an awful shame. But hearts get relegated through this then Hearts players who want to remain at Hearts will lose their jobs through relegation clauses.
The only way to stop either of those scenarios is to expand the league. That obviously has its own issues. 

 

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Special Officer Doofy

Yes, you can add my name firmly to the ‘**** taking one for the team’ list too. Christ, I wonder if other clubs have so many fans desperate to appear fair to the competition at the expense of their own club? 😄

 

Especially this fixed rancid racket of a a set up. Don’t give a **** how it affects other clubs, as long as we don’t get shafted. 

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allystrachan
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, hueyview said:

It was proposed on Football Focus that the top two teams of the championship be added to the Premiership for one season then have relegation increased to 5 at the end of the season to restore it too 20 team league.

That might work (not perfect) in Scotland, but I can see this virus becoming prolonged, maybe into winter.

I think that would be a great idea for Scottish football. It’s the chance to do something different & think out of the box but I have no faith in those that run the game to think with an open mind. 

Edited by allystrachan

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, Prince Buaben said:

Before we can discuss any possible reconstruction we need a vague idea when we might be possible to start. This isnt going to be over in 3 weeks so why move things to May/June.

 

My own idea is now euros are cancelled why not finish leagues as they are. This makes Celtic,Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove are champions. No relegation but promote those teams. bring in Brora and Kelty too from HFL and Ll

 

Then take Scottish Cup Semis and play off games (between positions 2-5 in championship,League 1 and 2) Play them to close the season. Take a summer break as normal aand tart next season as close as we can. Would leave Premiership with 14, Championship,League 1 and 2.

Premiership would split at game 26 rather than 31 and its 2 home and 2 away. 

Championship,League 1 and 2 would still have 10 teams. 

 

 

 

 

Players contracts and pre-contracts preclude the season going beyond 31 May. We have in excess of 10 first team squad members whose contract with us expires at the end of May. Very few, if any, of them are likely to be offered a new contract. 

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

There is very little scope left to the GFA. End the season now. First off they can't relegate as we COULD still stay up and to relegate would mean a loss in revenue. But we can't stay up as that would impact on the Championship teams waiting to join the gravy train.

Therefore league reconstruction ( even for one season) , is the ONLY answer. Bottom two stay up and the top two from the Championship join us. The added bonus is the teams below the Championship would move up thus improving them and the Championship.

As for summer football the only reason I can see against it, is the old " it's tradition to play in the winter".

By playing in the summer, ball control and skills would improve, ( this would also help in European comps ) and fans could sit comfortably without getting cold and wet.

What could be nicer than a couple of pints in the beer garden and a stroll down Gorgie for a game?

For once the greater good has to be the way forward and the Bigot twins should not be allowed to veto anything that solves this problem.

Except we won’t be able to play this summer (virus) or next summer (Euro 2021)) 

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, south morocco said:

Agreed and Loan deals finish too usually  around June 30th ?

Most loan deals expire in May. 

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soonbe110
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I think UEFA / FIFA will suspend or amend transfer windows.

 

Contracts could be extended as they also said on the radio but it is a major issue. 

Don’t think they can because suppose a player, lets say Dikamona, knows he isn’t getting a new 1,2 year contract from us. Why would he agree to a one month extension to his current deal and take the risk that he gets injured and ends up in early July without a club and with medium to long term injury?  
Don’t think there’s any way round the contract situation. Other players have already signed pre-contracts from June 1 or July 1. What about the transfer window?  

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Mikey1874
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Players contracts and pre-contracts preclude the season going beyond 31 May. We have in excess of 10 first team squad members whose contract with us expires at the end of May. Very few, if any, of them are likely to be offered a new contract. 

 

On Sportsound, Fraser Wishart of the PFA player's union said they are open to extending contracts and will make proposals this week. 

 

But he said there is a problem that if a player is injured he isn't paid for say 9 months. (EDIT as you say above) They might want a year's contract. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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MCW1976
2 hours ago, Mr 3 Putt said:

Everyone: League reconstruction?

 

The Old Firm: LOL, sit the **** back down peasants.


I get the point in full; however, you’re stretching it with any fan from the Old Squirm calling other people peasants.

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Mikey1874
17 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Most loan deals expire in May. 

 

Fraser Wishart said all contracts end 9 June. 

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j1964m

Think the best way would be promote 2 teams each league the 2nd division promote 1 highland league team and 1 lowland team then next season relegated 3 from each league 

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Mr 3 Putt
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MCW1976 said:


I get the point in full; however, you’re stretching it with any fan from the Old Squirm calling other people peasants.

More the clubs themselves than the fans, we know the fans are all ******.

 

No idea why its been censored, its only a big fresh water fish 😃

Edited by Mr 3 Putt

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soonbe110
11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

On Sportsound, Fraser Wishart of the PFA player's union said they are open to extending contracts and will make proposals this week. 

 

But he said there is a problem that if a player is injured he isn't paid for say 9 months. (EDIT as you say above) They might want a year's contract. 

That would mean clubs giving players they don’t really want another 12 month contract?? Unlikely imo. 
Tbh they all seem scared of the obvious solution - scrap the season, plan on next season starting Aug or Sept and use the next few weeks to sort out the corner cases eg do Celtic and Liverpool get titles, do we re-structure for one year to cover relegation/promotion issues, how much money are clubs going to get to help them through the financial challenges.  Undoubtedly though we will be arguing about Celtic up here and probably running scared of the answer. Does anyone really believe that if Rangers were a point ahead of Celtic today that Lennon would be saying give the title  to Rangers based on average points won? .  

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soonbe110
15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Fraser Wishart said all contracts end 9 June. 

Contracts maybe do, not according to transfermarkt. Loan deals can end on any date. 

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part_time_jambo
4 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Forgot to mention, with a proper winter break we could also bring back the Tennents 6s.

That settles it then. 

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Dsjambo
4 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Mods - if already covered please merge.

 

Ill start by saying (and this won’t go down well) at this point we deserve to be relegated - this season has been a disgrace. 
 

If we stay up due to Coronavirus or Hamilton match fixing (in a previous I believe) it’ll trump Aberdeen staying up due to league reconstruction.

 

Which leads me into my main point. 
 

I see in Germany they are proposing if the season cannot finish that there will be no relegation from the top flight. They will instead expand the top flight with the teams currently in the top 4 places in the league below.

 

For me we have been crying out for an expanded top flight in Scotland for a long time. A 16 team league with a twice a season format would be a breath of fresh air IMO. 

it would make games more of an event - sometimes with 4 a season plus often a 5th against somebody in the cup it becomes a chore and certain games less attractive.

 

Yes there would be less games, however every team (out-with European participants) is now guaranteed 4 LC games instead of 1. 

it would probably allow sides to develop - something we badly needed this season - instead of it being a constant battle to survive for a lot of clubs. 

 

It would probably allow for a longer summer and winter break and less midweek fixtures. It would likely mean replays wouldn’t need to be scrapped which seems a popular idea at the moment (I’m not sure either way if scrapping them is a good idea or not).

 

Ideally I’d like to see some kind of cross border competition (I think somebody a manager or commentator in England mentioned this recently?) - even if it was just an expanded Charity Shield with the 4 cup winners playing each other.

 

Thoughts?

We had an 18 team league in the 70’s but you end up with too many teams out with European and relegation battles leading to countless meaningless mid table games, this was why the league was changed in the first place.

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LarrysRightFoot
37 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

That settles it then. 

It’s the one point everything hinges on

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LarrysRightFoot
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Dsjambo said:

We had an 18 team league in the 70’s but you end up with too many teams out with European and relegation battles leading to countless meaningless mid table games, this was why the league was changed in the first place.

Sorry mate but I and a hell of a lot of fans weren’t around in the 70s and would like to make our own minds up. We’ve had 10 and 12 for 40+ years and while it worked at first (granted different times) its now (and for a long time been) stale and at times tedious.

Edited by LarrysRightFoot

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The Crack Fox
2 hours ago, Dsjambo said:

We had an 18 team league in the 70’s but you end up with too many teams out with European and relegation battles leading to countless meaningless mid table games, this was why the league was changed in the first place.

Works okay in the English Top leagues. If anything these 'meaningless games' could be a good opportunity for teams to give young players a chance and gain experience. Also in Scottish football it wouldn't be meaningless. As I highlighted earlier, the money for finishing higher up the league could be the difference of being able to sign two or three players more for the next season

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part_time_jambo

It won't change while the old firm, authorities and tv companies all want 4 rangers celtic games a season. Even if all the other clubs wanted to expand the leagues one of the old firm would have to vote for it. The clubs missed the chance to end the old firm veto when rangers were in the lower leagues.

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Cruyff
Posted (edited)

Yes 14 team top flight. 16 team 2nd league. 

 

Play each other home and away.

 

Top 7 / bottom 7 split after 26 games.

 

Top7 / bottom 7 play each other home and away = 38 games a season.

 

Two up, Two down automatically. 

SPFL 12th place faces SPFL 2, 3rd place in playoff. 

 

Bigger league, fairer split. OF get their guaranteed 4 games a season. Everyone is a winner. 

Edited by Cruyff

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DETTY29

If we go down an interim reconstruction route, the last thing we need is more Scottish clubs in the formal league structure.

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LarrysRightFoot
32 minutes ago, part_time_jambo said:

It won't change while the old firm, authorities and tv companies all want 4 rangers celtic games a season. Even if all the other clubs wanted to expand the leagues one of the old firm would have to vote for it. The clubs missed the chance to end the old firm veto when rangers were in the lower leagues.

As I said before create a 2 legged Old Firm cup in the winter break. TV companies get their precious 4 games.

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Randy Marsh
6 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

This would have been the perfect solution, had Aberdeen not decided to side with the enemy and prevent a change to the voting system.

 

As it is, we are now stuck with a shite TV deal that dictates the format and size of our leagues so they can broadcast four bigot festivals every season.

 

Any idea why Aberdeen did this?  Seems incredible.  Maybe our resident sheep could come on here and explain why they were such cowards?

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Special Officer Doofy
4 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

 

Any idea why Aberdeen did this?  Seems incredible.  Maybe our resident sheep could come on here and explain why they were such cowards?


They were worried that the smaller clubs might have voted in something like splitting gate money 50/50. Hearts were worried about it too, but as Aberdeen went out and just voted to keep it, we abstained from voting. It was not certain we would have voted for reform either at the time.

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Randy Marsh
3 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


They were worried that the smaller clubs might have voted in something like splitting gate money 50/50. Hearts were worried about it too, but as Aberdeen went out and just voted to keep it, we abstained from voting. It was not certain we would have voted for reform either at the time.

 

👍

 

Just found an old article about it.  The idea was to change the voting system to 9-3 from 11-1 on all matters.  It's no wonder we are stuck with the same set up in place because the Old Firm will just team up to veto everything that could threaten their dominance. 

 

Not sure I get the shared gates argument from Aberdeen as that would never have been feasible.  It was probably just an excuse to maintain the status quo and cash in on as many visits from the Old Firm due to their pish crowds..   Aberdeen are a bunch of spineless pricks.

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LarrysRightFoot
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

This is a pretty good solution, but I’d prefer to keep the enlarged divisions afterwards.

I think Deevers? said a journalist he knows said this was looking like the way forward.

 

For me, as I’ve said, we just go with 16 and keep it that way.

 

Also what if 14 is a success, then they scrap it straight away.

 

Personally, I think the best 2 or 3 proposals should be put to the fans to decide. I appreciate clubs may influence how some fans vote but still we should have a voice.

Edited by LarrysRightFoot

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Werner Herzog

I think UEFA & all the associated leagues need to seriously consider restructuring the entire football calendar; either in a short to medium term way or set a new normality.

 

With this situation, the two things that must be adhered to are public safety & sporting integrity. You cannot do both of these if you start a new league season in August.

 

Therefore, for me, the most sensible thing to do would be:

 

*Schedule Euro 2020 to start in mid November

*Restart the current season in August / September

*Start the next season in February/March 2021

 

I realise this isn't an ideal situation for the purists, the broadcasters or those on contracts til this summer, but I don't see any other way that keeps people safe & doesn't open up a legal earthquake in terms of titles, promotions & relegations. COVID-19 is going to be with us for 3-4 months at least. Nothing since the outbreak of the second world war compares to this - & that occurred a month into the season, not the business end. You can't take probable titles away from the likes of Liverpool, Celtic or Dundee United. But at the same time, you can't relegate the likes of Hearts either (as awful as we've been & as much as we deserve to go down up to now, it would be outrageous for that assertion to take place when we're 6 points from safety with 24 points still to play for). Besides, given we have a winter world cup in 2022, this situation (ironically) would  be the easiest way to accommodate that.

 

Dont get me wrong, it'll be rubbish & awkward not having any football to look forward to from now til August/September. But cancelling a season or picking/choosing promotions/relegations will open up a pandoras box that the sport will never be able to close.

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Special Officer Doofy
8 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

I think Deevers? said a journalist he knows said this was looking like the way forward.

 

For me, as I’ve said, we just go with 16 and keep it that way.

 

Also what if 14 is a success, then they scrap it straight away.

 

Personally, I think the best 2 or 3 proposals should be put to the fans to decide. I appreciate clubs may influence how some fans vote but still we should have a voice.


Expanded league, no split, play each other twice for me, every single time. 

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Cruyff
Posted (edited)

Honestly think it needs to be more than reconstruction. It needs a radical change. 

 

Scotlands too small to have 42 teams and 4 Professional Divisions. We should have 30 Professional teams, two Professional Leagues, absolute max. 

 

I also think some of the smaller clubs who are in areas where there are 2/3/4 clubs should look to amalgamate because they are most probably going to go out of business at some point in the future anyway. That might look harsh if you're a traditionalist but there's more potential for having just 1 club in areas of Fife and Angus for example. 

 

I used to believe a 16 team top flight was the way to go but personally I think for the revenue involved, we need the top sides facing one another 4 times a season. We need the OF and Edinburgh Derbies 4 times a season. These are the games people want to watch and losing those fixtures devaluates the League imo. 

 

I totally get why people think 16 teams is the way forward. It freshens it up, we don't play they same sides 4 times a season and it probably gives another side outwith the OF a slightly better chance of winning the title as they don't have to go to Ibrox or Celtic Park 4 times a season. 

 

But having thought about this subject quite a lot, if you make the top league 16 teams, you weaken the 2nd Division and the gulf between both Divisions becomes wider. That defeats the purpose of strengthening the game. It has to be good for everyone, not just a stronger top flight, the 2nd division needs to be a good level too. 

 

Of course, a 14 team top flight with a split also solves the Old Firm problem as they get their 4 games. That is the main sticking point in reconstruction happening and I think realistically, that a 14 team top Division is the best compromise to be made. 

 

After that you could look at having a National League below the 2nd tier with SPFL u-23 sides in it who cannot be promoted above that level and then a pyramid system below that. 

 

Then we could look into draft picks of the best talent for the 2nd division or something similar and Summer Football. The Scottish League has to begin in March and finish in December, it could be great. That could maybe allow us to scrap the League Cup and create a New Competition with the Irish and Scandinavian Leagues as our seasons would fall in line with each other. 

Edited by Cruyff

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i8hibsh

Gives our losers a couple more diddy teams to lose to I guess.

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jack D and coke
17 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

'Far too sensible' alert.

 

Watch what England does next week. And with Germany could set the template. 

It should...it really should be we have to deal with bigoted cretins like Lennon at Celtic who has already made noises. Don’t forget this will all be some conspiracy to deny them their 9th and their quadruple treble. A foul and disgusting institution from boardroom to terrace we should never forget that fact.  
I would certainly change things, I’d start giving them a sticker for winning the SPL and maybe give them a bottle of wine if they do the double/treble. It’s absolutely worthless and boring in its current form. It is draining the life from me but the powers that be must take their orders from Lawell and make sure Lennon isn’t upset by anyone or he’ll claim some anti kafflik conspiracy again. 

Uefa need to make the rules for all or we’ll never hear the end of it here. 
 

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Randy Marsh
3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Gives our losers a couple more diddy teams to lose to I guess.

 

I would imagine the bulk of the current squad would be away by the next campaign.  Obviously those on outrageous 3-4 year deals will be harder to punt.  

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Prof

Best solution is for the bigot brothers to join some other league, freeing up two places for top clubs in Championship to move to Premiership.

 

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Paolo
17 hours ago, kila said:

Either Ayr United or Dunfermline to take the final spot but as it stands a 16 team league could be:

 

 

Aberdeen
Ayr United
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Hamilton Academical
Heart of Midlothian
Hibernian
Inverness CT
Kilmarnock
Livingston
Motherwell
Rangers

Ross County
St. Johnstone
St. Mirren

 

 

Providing a good number of derbies including the Old Firm, Edinburgh, Dundee and Highland.

 

 

And the Ayrshire.  

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jack D and coke
2 hours ago, Prof said:

Best solution is for the bigot brothers to join some other league, freeing up two places for top clubs in Championship to move to Premiership.

 

If only. 
Maybe just play each other 36 times a season and be done with it. 

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whyskey
17 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Yes 14 team top flight. 16 team 2nd league. 

 

Play each other home and away.

 

Top 7 / bottom 7 split after 26 games.

 

Top7 / bottom 7 play each other home and away = 38 games a season.

 

Two up, Two down automatically. 

SPFL 12th place faces SPFL 2, 3rd place in playoff. 

 

Bigger league, fairer split. OF get their guaranteed 4 games a season. Everyone is a winner. 

No we dont want a split, four teams promoted from the championship making a top league of sixteen. add ten teams from the first division to the championship making another sixteen division, add three teams each from the highland and lowland leagues to the second division making a sixteen team league , this would be the new first division.

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Seymour M Hersh

If they have been considering reorganising then this season would be the perfect time to do it. 18 would be my ideal size but the cheeks and diddy clubs who completely rely on the cheeks for the earnings will block it. 

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upgotheheads
On 14/03/2020 at 12:44, OTT said:

Anyone who actually enjoys playing the same teams 4 times a season is delusional beyond belief. Its stale, boring and doesn't encourage genuine top end competition. With such a poor TV deal, the approach should simply be, this is what we're doing deal with it. Celtic and Rangers have played turns for the league title for a good 20 years up until the huns went bust, now its just Celtic. Does anyone think this is sustainable for interest in the domestic game?

 

A simple question is why does Germany, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Russia, Netherlands, Italy ETC. not have a split? Its because its a ****ing stupid idea. We need either a 16 or 18 team league. I think 18 to ensure clubs have the volume of games to make up for any initial loss in revenue. 

 

Scottish football is funded by the fans. Ticket sales make up almost all every NON-OF clubs funds. It makes far more sense to me that the game is constructed in such a way to interest these stakeholders rather than Sky or BT. Surely, with supply and demand our top tier fixtures (Celtic/the huns/Hearts/Hibs and Aberdeen) are worth more? Much more significance put on the game since defeat at home means a whole season to wait before getting the chance to put it right. Thats exciting no?

 

It should be trialled initially to see how things go. If things stay the same or improve then it was worth doing. The format is dated and not fit for purpose. The OF have too big a say on competitors seasons. In a bigger league Aberdeen might have won the league in 2015-16. 

 

Its much needed and we need to push for it as fans.

 

Anyone who thinks a 16 or 18 team league would be better if than our current setup is delusional beyond belief and obviously wasn't around the last time we had an 18 team league.

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goldiebackwash1985

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Special Officer Doofy
1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Anyone who thinks a 16 or 18 team league would be better if than our current setup is delusional beyond belief and obviously wasn't around the last time we had an 18 team league.


A lot has changed since the 70s mate. You have no idea if it would be better or not nowadays. I think it would be.

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Anderson5
10 minutes ago, goldiebackwash1985 said:

Screenshot_20200315-172448_Samsung Notes.png


You’re proposing a Premiership of 22 teams where 3rd place might not even qualify for Europe and 3rd bottom might not even be relegated??

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LarrysRightFoot
2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Anyone who thinks a 16 or 18 team league would be better if than our current setup is delusional beyond belief and obviously wasn't around the last time we had an 18 team league.

Think it’s time for a new generation to decide. 40+ years of 10 then 12 has sickened a lot of people. 

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Randy Marsh
46 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Think it’s time for a new generation to decide. 40+ years of 10 then 12 has sickened a lot of people. 

 

Absolutely this.   Obviously some folk aren't bothered that no team outside the Old Firm has won the title in 35 years.  

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Jambof3tornado
2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


A lot has changed since the 70s mate. You have no idea if it would be better or not nowadays. I think it would be.

Very much this.

 

Playing either half of the old firm only once home and once away may allow teams to get some momentum in the league and be closer to the top spots??

 

Worth a go if clubs would give up the desire for the old firm pound.

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