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combo74

Could relegation be liberating?

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Well none according to your prediction up the page (you said season tickets will be 8-10k and FOH subscriptions will drop by 25-50%).

 

You're plucking figures out of thin air with nothing whatsoever to back them up so don't blame me if you get picked up for it.


8000 is less than 10000? You’re arguing about nothing. My prediction is that we will see a substantial drop in FOH subs and season ticket sales. I’ve given my estimated drop offs. I’m pretty sure I won’t be far off. You’ve nothing to pick me up for. You’ve just left yourself open to looking like a tit if we do lose 25-50% FOH subs and we have sell less than 10k season tickets. Not sure why you are getting worked up about it. 

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BarneyBattles
1 minute ago, glynnlondon said:

A few good decisions sounds like a bridge too far with Budge and the rest of the divs still in charge.

Theirein lies the problem

 

That's a fair point. Think Budge would either pony up a few bob or leave to be honest. 

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Ma Roon

It will be liberating when Levein and McPhee leave the club 

What a mess they have created between them Only then can we progress as a club

IF Dan can save us he should get manager of the year award 

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baron of ness
39 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


How can you say they won’t? 

Support your team for God's sake. 

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gashauskis9
1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Hearts and Utd are not comparable clubs in terms of fan base, resources etc. 

 

Anyway, as I said before, I'm not after an argument, I just can't see why the vast majority of the Hearts support would turn their backs or take years to trust the club again.

The vast majority wouldn’t turn their backs, but enough would to hit us financially and hit the product on the field.  I think we’d still have a hardcore 10k-(ish) coming to games so the stadium would be half empty most weeks.  No Rangers games or Hibs games like last time either.

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ArcticJambo
39 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

I can't which is why I said it was ludicrous for you to say up to 50% would cancel. It's not tricky.

checkmate!

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BarneyBattles
2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


8000 is less than 10000? You’re arguing about nothing. My prediction is that we will see a substantial drop in FOH subs and season ticket sales. I’ve given my estimated drop offs. I’m pretty sure I won’t be far off. You’ve nothing to pick me up for. You’ve just left yourself open to looking like a tit if we do lose 25-50% FOH subs and we have sell less than 10k season tickets. Not sure why you are getting worked up about it. 

 

I'm not arguing. Just pointing out you've made up some on the spot facts, which actually make you look like a tit rather than me

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, baron of ness said:

Support your team for God's sake. 


I’m not talking about my own sections or actions. I’m simply making a prediction regarding the financial ramifications of relegation. 

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BarneyBattles
2 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The vast majority wouldn’t turn their backs, but enough would to hit us financially and hit the product on the field.  I think we’d still have a hardcore 10k-(ish) coming to games so the stadium would be half empty most weeks.  No Rangers games or Hibs games like last time either.

 

Fair points although someone above did point out our average taking out hibs/huns was 15.8k in 2014. Let's just hope we somehow escape this.

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Paulp74

Relegation would be an absolute disaster this time. No big games v rangers and hibs. No feeling of sticking together after coming out of administration. We would lose all our better players. Our turnover was £14m last year - I reckon it could half and would cost us millions. So definitely not liberating!

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Mr Elwood P
Just now, BarneyBattles said:

 

I'm not arguing. Just pointing out you've made up some on the spot facts, which actually make you look like a tit rather than me


Do you know what the word ‘fact’ means?
 

Clue: It’s the exact opposite of a prediction or estimate (my figures). Perhaps getting your facts right, would be a shrewd move, if you actually want to win the debates you initiate. 

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BarneyBattles
1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Do you know what the word ‘fact’ means?
 

Clue: It’s the exact opposite of a prediction or estimate (my figures). Perhaps getting your facts right, would be a shrewd move, if you actually want to win the debates you initiate. 

 

You're just not getting this. We're not having a debate😄.

 

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ToqueJambo
12 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The vast majority wouldn’t turn their backs, but enough would to hit us financially and hit the product on the field.  I think we’d still have a hardcore 10k-(ish) coming to games so the stadium would be half empty most weeks.  No Rangers games or Hibs games like last time either.

 

Never underestimate the drawing power of a winning team, no matter who we're playing. We'll get good crowds assuming we win the league pretty easily (similar to D Utd this season or Hibs when they finally got promoted), which we should do given our vastly superior resources.

 

Even if things don't go so well, we'll always be in a promotion or at worst playoffs battle, which will by definition more exciting than an average season watching Hearts, just without the big match ups vs Hibs and the OF (although I wouldn't miss the OF games tbh). Not sure what Hibs crowds were each of their THREE years down there, but I'm pretty sure they stayed decent because of the above reasons. My Hibee mates seemed to enjoy life down there much more than when they were sliding towards relegation season after season.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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jr ewing

We didn't even play tonight!!

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BarneyBattles
13 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

checkmate!

 

Honestly don't know why I bother. I should know better!

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Tynehead
41 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Well said. Hibs had the worst relegation in 1998, they went down, we won the cup. 

 

They had no feelgood factor at all, a shit squad, a bad start to their 1st division season. Then they started winning and romped it in front of big crowds.

 

Exactly the same would happen to us if we do go down.

But only if we can go on an early winning run.  I think season ticket sales will slump for next season no matter how things pan out,  we should all get a letter of apology from the Club with a cheque for this seasons debacle.  Having said that I think FOH debits will not be so badly hit.

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ToqueJambo
15 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

Relegation would be an absolute disaster this time. No big games v rangers and hibs. No feeling of sticking together after coming out of administration. We would lose all our better players. Our turnover was £14m last year - I reckon it could half and would cost us millions. So definitely not liberating!

 

It wouldn't necessarily be a disaster (in terms of threatening our existence or leaving to years in the doldrums). We must all have Hibs mates we can ask. They've been down there 4 times in recent memory after all and only two of those years had us and/or Rangers down there with them.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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jake

No.

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Saint Jambo
28 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It wouldn't necessarily be a disaster (in terms of threatening our existence or leaving to years in the doldrums). We must all have Hibs mates we can ask. They've been down there 4 times in recent memory after all and only two of those years had us and/or Rangers down there with them.

 

I just googled Hibs accounts for their final season in the championship 2016-17. They had record season ticket sales, including not only sales following winning the cup, but also sales at the end of the season having been promoted, which counted in that financial period. They also sold Jason Cummings during that financial year. They still made a loss of £277k.

 

Take out the boost they got from winning the cup and the fee for Cummings and that year the loss for His would have been millions.

 

Also as a comparison, their turnover in year ending 2016 (when they won the cup but otherwise were typically championship) was about 70% of their turnover in 2018 back in the championship. Again take cup and Rangers out the league and that figure would be even worse.

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ToqueJambo
4 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I just googled Hibs accounts for their final season in the championship 2016-17. They had record season ticket sales, including not only sales following winning the cup, but also sales at the end of the season having been promoted, which counted in that financial period. They also sold Jason Cummings during that financial year. They still made a loss of £277k.

 

Take out the boost they got from winning the cup and the fee for Cummings and that year the loss for His would have been millions.

 

Also as a comparison, their turnover in year ending 2016 (when they won the cup but otherwise were typically championship) was about 70% of their turnover in 2018 back in the championship. Again take cup and Rangers out the league and that figure would be even worse.

 

Obviously revenues would decline. I'm talking about the actual experience of watching the team.

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Saint Jambo
2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Obviously revenues would decline. I'm talking about the actual experience of watching the team.

 

Oh, I misunderstood then. I thought your reference to not threatening our existence was referring to finance.

 

From a footballing perspective, I guess it will vary from fan to fan depending on their tastes. Personally, I have no appetite for another season in the Championship.

 

Anyway, looking at the Hibs finances confirmed to me my fears that it could be financially ruinous. Like Hibs we might get lucky and be OK, but it would be a risk far higher than I'd be comfortable with. I certainly wouldn't feel liberated.

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

If we do go down we will need to use it to rid ourselves of the imposters in the squad, and those responsible for the situation we will find ourselves in. I’m not sure if it will be liberating but we will need to come back stronger. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

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queensferryjambo

Getting relegated will have absolutely no positives.

 

Last time the circumstances of why we went down made it almost forgivable and of course we romped the league, Rangers and Hibs were in the league so at least derby matches and bigger games.

 

It will really be shite this time around.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

People are nuts if they think there is an upside to relegation.

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David McCaig
6 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Stendal won't be the manager next season.

Time to consider pressing the panic button as to whether Stendel should be the Manager now!!!

 

We basically have 11 (13 if we're lucky) games to ward off complete unmitigated disaster.

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Paolo
6 hours ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.

The circumstances were different; though.   We also had Rangers and Hibs early.  We beat them both, with Rangers at Ibrox, something we rarely do, especially in a meaningful game. 

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chrisyboy7
7 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

I'm going to be honest with you. The club cant afford to be relegated. We have payers on large contracts. We will be 3 million or more over budget 

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i8hibsh

I think we all know deep down what the only true liberating thing right now could be. 

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Leveins Battalion

Can we just delete Kickback?

 

It would genuinely help Heart of Midlothian  Football club.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
4 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Can we just delete Kickback?

 

It would genuinely help Heart of Midlothian  Football club.

:cornette:

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Geoff Kilpatrick
56 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Time to consider pressing the panic button as to whether Stendel should be the Manager now!!!

 

We basically have 11 (13 if we're lucky) games to ward off complete unmitigated disaster.

Behave!

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Behave!

Apologies, nothing to see here and all is fine and dandy.

 

Stendel's failure to have won any matches against bottom 6 opposition isn't in anyway a cause for concern.

 

And in what way is an unforeseen potential drop in revenue of £3m not an unmitigated disaster?

 

We need to do whatever it takes to stay up.

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Geoff Kilpatrick
Just now, David McCaig said:

Apologies, nothing to see here and all is fine and dandy.

 

Stendel's failure to have won any matches against bottom 6 opposition isn't in anyway a cause for concern.

 

And in what way is an unforeseen potential drop in revenue of £3m not an unmitigated disaster?

 

We need to do whatever it takes to stay up.

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

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David McCaig
3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?

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Lord BJ

**** no. 
 

No team has ever had  the aim to be relegated because it will be ‘liberating’ or for any other reason for the matter. 
 

Being relegated doesn’t remove negativity around the club, the exact opposite will happen. Staying up would have a much more positive impact on feelings about the club, than being relegated.
 

The players who would be responsible for taking us down, most likely remain at the club. I doubt we have relegation clauses, therefore underperforming players will likely remain as who is going to pay them more. Therefore we are paying contracts up and/or retaining underperforming players 

 

Any players who had any value, mainly Hickey, would see that value drop. 
 

We would most likely need a new manager again. If DS takes us down, I see no reason why he should continue. That will cost a lot of money. 
 

AB would have to make a lot of decisions around the football side of the club. Something she has shown to be poor at and I do fear who would advise her,
 

The financial consequences would be chronic. 
 

If we weren’t to stroll that league, which should be much easier than last time, the negativity would make this season look like a pleasant experience! I have no idea how we would do in the championship, but the belief we will stroll it, I feel is a false one 


It’s not the end of the world but it’s not something that has any real positives,  Going down gives us no more of a clean slate than staying up with and starting next season a fresh. 
 

Anyone who actively wants us to be relegated isn’t a jambo to be honest. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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glynnlondon
12 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The idea of sacking Stendel now is bonkers. We sink or swim with him because the notion that these players will suddenly transform under someone else is a nonsense. Any new appointment will be stuck with them.

It would take her 2 months to appoint a new manager anyway going on her previous efforts

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1971fozzy

The rage (and rightly so) this time round if we go down would be night and day compared to last time. 
the players , owner , Levein and quite possibly Stendell would have no rock to crawl under. 
liberating ? Not a feking chance. 
Likely ? I’d say stick on cert we are going down now

 

i hate having to see the word Levein.  Typing it gives me the boak

Edited by 1971fozzy

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1971fozzy
9 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

It would take her 2 months to appoint a new manager anyway going on her previous efforts


And another 2  to get their assistant.

shambles 

 

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Barack

Yep. Can't wait to be liberated. 

 

Dunkirk levels of euphoria, on the horizon for me.

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1971fozzy
20 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?


he needs to stop playing fantasy football with a squad that aren’t anywhere near good enough to play it. Then we may have a chance. 
Sooner he stops playing this like a computer game the better. 
 

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Paolo
7 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Why would the club with by far the biggest resources in the league be down for a few years? That's a bit like saying Celtic won't win the league for a few years. Why would it take years to rebuild trust?

 

Not after an argument, I just genuinely don't think that would be the case. A few good decisions and results and we'd all be back on the happy rain.

Because we have a far bigger resource than seven of the clubs above us this season.  Also possibly slightly bigger  than another one or two. 

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Ari Gold

No but we'll stroll the championship and come straight back up. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
40 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

This squad of players shouldn't be losing ground to Hamilton and St Mirren.

 

We need to go back to basics and become hard to beat.  The likes of Naismith and Boyce should still have goals in them even with a more defensive outlook.

 

The question is whether Stendel can ditch the idealism in favour of pragmatism and common sense?

In theory, yes. In practice, there is no fight in this team. Soft as shite.

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Nookie Bear
8 hours ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.


Last time we were fighting back from near extinction and watching a team of young players giving us our pride back. 
 

This time would be a massive humiliation for us and I think it will take a long time for the club to recover. 
 

There is also a simmering anger right now that will explode if we do go down. 

 

And the 50% reduction in FoH is exaggerating, but it will drop substantially I reckon.  

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Geoff Kilpatrick
1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:


Last time we were fighting back from near extinction and watching a team of young players giving us our pride back. 
 

This time would be a massive humiliation for us and I think it will take a long time for the club to recover. 
 

There is also a simmering anger right now that will explode if we do go down. 

 

And the 50% reduction in FoH is exaggerating, but it will drop substantially I reckon.  

Especially if FoH continue to back Budge.

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Paolo
15 minutes ago, Ari Gold said:

No but we'll stroll the championship and come straight back up. 

I have seen nothing over the last 18 months or so to suggest we would ‘stroll’ the Championship. 

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Nookie Bear
4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Especially if FoH continue to back Budge.


Correct. 

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Ari Gold

See below

Edited by Ari Gold

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Ari Gold
3 minutes ago, Paolo said:

I have seen nothing over the last 18 months or so to suggest we would ‘stroll’ the Championship. 

As seen previously, the championship is very poor. Players will move on and new players will come in, we won't be going with the same squad. Dundee United have shown how poor the league is. The fact that Berra has moved to Dundee and is getting praise for his performances shows how bad the league is. 

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Forever Hearts
9 hours ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

Unbelievable. 

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