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combo74

Could relegation be liberating?

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combo74

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

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Coolio

No. 

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Sir Gio

No

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deejtee

Seems like the devil has a pretty poor legal advisor.

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maroonsgotop

nope

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combo74

Good in depth responses 😆😆

 

I just want a break from all the negativity that surrounds the club and get back to winning games and scoring goals...ideally that’s in the premier league.

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jbee647

There is absolutely no certainty we would come back up 

we are likely to lose any decent players we have, I’ll wager Boyce & Naismith have relegation clauses.

This will be nothing like 2014/15, there will be no Hibs and Rangers, this will be Arbroath and Morton.

i saw this in the late 70s early 80s, this feels so much worse, because we never ever should have found ourselves in this mess, back then we had bad players and absolutely no money, in 2020 we are supposedly a well run self sustainable football club

This is gross negligence on a grand scale by Anne Budge and Craig Levein, they should hang there heads in shame.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Mr Elwood P
10 minutes ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 


Liberate of us thousands of fans, hundreds of FOH subscribers and millions of pounds. 

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Satchmo

No chance. Stendal doesn’t have the right game plan to bring us back up. High press pish, or whatever won’t work in that league.

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His name is

When we went down after administration the whole club and support were moving forward together. This would not be the case this time round. 

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Sexton Hardcastle

We could get relegated, a new face comes in an runs the club. The management and players kick on and cruise promotion. Back into the top league and all looking rosey and oh wait, what’s that? Ah it’s just a plane with a banner calling for the manager to go. 
 

People would moan and greet if we were playing in the champions league tonight.

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jbee647
3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Liberate of us thousands of fans, hundreds of FOH subscribers and millions of pounds. 

In 1977 when we went down the fans stuck with us, averaging crowds of 11500, by 1980 when we were back down again our crowds dropped dramatically to 5-6000, if we go down again, I genuinely believe we will be shocked how many won’t renew season tickets 

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glynnlondon

No too big a risk 

Would it be a catalyst for a total overhaul of the club including Budge ?

I doubt it and if not it'll be nailed on more of the same just in a lower division.

What a circus

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Mr Elwood P
Just now, jbee647 said:

In 1977 when we went down the fans stuck with us, averaging crowds of 11500, by 1980 when we were back down again our crowds dropped dramatically to 5-6000, if we go down again, I genuinely believe we will be shocked how many won’t renew season tickets 


I agree, we will be looking at a massive drop in season ticket sales. I also think we might see anything from 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancelling their DD. The Championship is really poor now and having no Edinburgh Derby, no Old Firm and no Aberdeen games would kill us financially.

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Cut The Crap

It would be interesting to see the likely drop in revenue that relegation would bring. No Cat A matches, no TV fees, reduced hospitality, reduced prize money.

 

I can’t see how any of it is good news.

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WheatfieldWarrior
11 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

No chance. Stendal doesn’t have the right game plan to bring us back up. High press pish, or whatever won’t work in that league.

 

Stendal won't be the manager next season.

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Wham Bam Austin McCann

If done correctly last time we would still be on a wave of an upward trajectory. 

 

What makes you think we will suddenly relieve ourselves of negativity going down again? We should have been able to build a squad capable of challenging for a few years after the last "bounce".

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BarneyBattles
1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:


I agree, we will be looking at a massive drop in season ticket sales. I also think we might see anything from 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancelling their DD. The Championship is really poor now and having no Edinburgh Derby, no Old Firm and no Aberdeen games would kill us financially.

 

How can you possibly say up to 50% of FOH direct debits would be cancelled, ludicrous thing to say.

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Boab

If anything needs to happen right now, it’s to show the defiance we showed in the few games before we went down.

Starting with the Hibs game, when we reminded those goons how pish they were, our last 8 games had 5 wins, 2 draws and a single defeat.

It’s not too late for a scrap.

Liberating ? 

Nah, mate. No thanks.

Edited by Boab

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Mr Elwood P
Just now, BarneyBattles said:

 

How can you possibly say up to 50% of FOH direct debits would be cancelled, ludicrous thing to say.


How can you say they won’t? 

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Jodami

No but it's a fair question.  The  major issue here is many people who have backed  the current regime at the club financially and emotionally feel very unhappy at how the club has been run. The lack of care and attention given to the footballing side of the club is biting us hard now but still we have no sporting director and the strategy seems to have been hope for the best. 

The club is safe now and people may feel happier about taking a break and doing other things with their time and money. For many people that kind of chat is sacrilegious but I think it's a real risk. 

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indianajones

We rebooted when we came out of admin and won the championship. 

 

Remember the 5 year plan? Its a disgrace we are in this position. 

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BarneyBattles
1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:


How can you say they won’t? 

 

I can't which is why I said it was ludicrous for you to say up to 50% would cancel. It's not tricky.

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Boab
4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


I agree, we will be looking at a massive drop in season ticket sales. I also think we might see anything from 25-50% of FOH subscribers cancelling their DD. The Championship is really poor now and having no Edinburgh Derby, no Old Firm and no Aberdeen games would kill us financially.

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.

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All roads lead to Gorgie

The out pouring of love for our club was at an all time high the last time around. I don't have the confidence that would hold true this time around and a lot of people would be pretty scunnered with those who let it happen. Crowds would be nowhere near as big this time and revenues would drop so coming back up in a season would be no certainty!

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

I can't which is why I said it was ludicrous for you to say up to 50% would cancel. It's not tricky.


If you can’t say 50% won’t cancel, then what is ridiculous about saying up to 50% will? The FOH was a vehicle to save the club, achieve fan ownership and latterly to build a new stand. That has all, almost,  been achieved. A lot of subscribers will think job done and not trust the club to use the money in a purposeful manner going forward. Ask fellow fans, I’ve had a few say to me that they will cancel if we go down.

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BarneyBattles
Just now, Mr Elwood P said:


If you can’t say 50% won’t cancel, then what is ridiculous about saying up to 50% will? The FOH was a vehicle to save the club, achieve fan ownership and latterly to build a new stand. That has all, almost,  been achieved. A lot of subscribers will think job done and not trust the club to use the money in a purposeful manner going forward. Ask fellow fans, I’ve had a few say to me that they will cancel if we go down.

 

Stopped reading  there as you're still sticking to a ridiculous figure plucked out of thin air. Night night.

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Jambof3tornado
6 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

How can you possibly say up to 50% of FOH direct debits would be cancelled, ludicrous thing to say.

This. Utter pish.

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daveyhmfc

I will go against the grain and say, it could actually be quite liberating. For those fans who decide, nah, better things to do with time and money; they can just as well feck off. As the song goes, we can sometimes go down, we can aye go back up! For better or worse ,you stick by your club! 

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Jambof3tornado
4 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.

Correctamundo

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Uncle Buck

It would be a disaster.

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Mr Elwood P
2 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

This was discussed before....and I never got a reply !

Our average attendance the last time in the Championship, with Hibs and sevco crowds removed, was 15,800.

We we’re winning so people turned up.


Feel good factor.

 

We had survived and were rising again. This time is completely different. I think 8-10k season ticket sales but without knowing the playing squad or manager it’s impossible to predict. We had a lot of good faith last time around. This time we will have none.

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

This. Utter pish.

 

Just now, Jambof3tornado said:

Correctamundo


Utterly delusional. It would be an unmitigated disaster for the club. The only positive would be allowing the academy players a full competitive season in the Scottish Championship.

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Boab
1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Feel good factor.

 

We had survived and were rising again. This time is completely different. I think 8-10k season ticket sales but without knowing the playing squad or manager it’s impossible to predict. We had a lot of good faith last time around. This time we will have none.

 

Feel good factor was winning every week.

You’re right, better leave impossible predictions and deal in facts.

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ToadKiller Dog

If it happens then we will deal with it ,we will survive it but certainly it would knock us back for at least 2 seasons if not more ,while our rivals would grow ,while we once again rebuild .

Will worry about that if when it happens full effort should be staying up ,not talking ourselves into relegation.

 

The best option ( maybe at this time the most difficult ) is clearly to stay up ,rebuild in the top league and go again next season .

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BarneyBattles
Just now, Boab said:

 

Feel good factor was winning every week.

You’re right, better leave impossible predictions and deal in facts.

 

Well said. Hibs had the worst relegation in 1998, they went down, we won the cup. 

 

They had no feelgood factor at all, a shit squad, a bad start to their 1st division season. Then they started winning and romped it in front of big crowds.

 

Exactly the same would happen to us if we do go down.

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gashauskis9

Not this time round, no.  Think we’ll be down for a few years if we go down.  No bounce back, no momentum, no goodwill.  It will take years to rebuild the trust.

 

It’ll be ****ing grim.  

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Mr Elwood P
3 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

Feel good factor was winning every week.

You’re right, better leave impossible predictions and deal in facts.


That wasn’t where the feel good factor came from. We had sold thousands of season tickets and sold out the home strip before a ball was even kicked. 

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portobellojambo1
47 minutes ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

 

The difference last time round was that there was no choice and something new was beginning, and the fan base got on side. 5 years after re-entering the top division there is a chance we could leave it again, but this time round the fan base won't support it in the same way. We were on a 5 year project which was meant to be progressive steps forward, but has probably been the reverse of that in the more recent part. We;re not down yet, there is a lot of points to be played for. In addition we have no idea what sort of contract the manager has signed and what sort of get out clauses may have been included. A form of liberation does have to take place, but stepping down a division doesn't have to form the starting point for that.

Edited by portobellojambo1

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Zlatanable
47 minutes ago, combo74 said:

Playing devil’s advocate here...

 

Could relegation be liberating and allow the club to reboot?

 

Not being defeatist, however it feels like the last 2-3 years has been full of negatively; constant criticism of the management team, the players and Ann Budge. It feels like this squad is broken...decent players on paper, but not showing any fight or will to win. On top of that we have a fan base who feel scunnered and on the cusp of imploding.

 

Would relegation allow us to jettison poor performing players, sign fresh players less tarnished and allow the fans to get behind a fresh team that wins games and score goals.

 

I genuinely enjoyed liberation of the last championship season, however we went into it in a much more positive manner...would Champ 2020/21 feel the same?

 

Yes.

 

The day before the league cup 20/21 begins, an alien force captures earth.

 

Hearts squad and players, are still on the Gullane beaches, arguing with Jambos Kickback members, so are missed by the #AlienForceIdentification officers who number everyone in Scottish Football apart from us, Kelty Hearts, Arbroath, and Lanus (Argentina). 

 

Hearts fail to qualify for the League Cup knockout stage (**** a duck Levien), we continue to build a global resistance, and supporting a football club that wears maroon, becomes a global sign of strength and Skacelness, summat. (fill this bit with more details)

 

In May 2021, Hearts take on ThE UnIvErSaL LoRd IUGFUGJKW in the First Earth and Universe Cup...

 

 

 

Edited by Zlatanable

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BarneyBattles
2 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Not this time round, no.  Think we’ll be down for a few years if we go down.  No bounce back, no momentum, no goodwill.  It will take years to rebuild the trust.

 

It’ll be ****ing grim.  

 

Why would the club with by far the biggest resources in the league be down for a few years? That's a bit like saying Celtic won't win the league for a few years. Why would it take years to rebuild trust?

 

Not after an argument, I just genuinely don't think that would be the case. A few good decisions and results and we'd all be back on the happy rain.

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davemclaren

I see no positives in being relegated so we have to stay up. 

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BarneyBattles
5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


That wasn’t where the feel good factor came from. We had sold thousands of season tickets and sold out the home strip before a ball was even kicked. 

 

We sold the same amount of season tickets as your higher prediction for next season a few posts up (10k). 

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gashauskis9
Just now, BarneyBattles said:

 

Why would the club with by far the biggest resources in the league be down for a few years? That's a bit like saying Celtic won't win the league for a few years. Why would it take years to rebuild trust?

 

Not after an argument, I just genuinely don't think that would be the case. A few good decisions and results and we'd all be back on the happy rain.

I’m sure they said the same about Dundee Utd.  Without splashing the big bucks on Shankland this season, they’d be back in the play off mix, let’s be honest.  

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

We sold the same amount of season tickets as your higher prediction for next season a few posts up (10k). 


10k sold with the feel good factor of having saved our club. Subtract the feel good factor and how many of those 10k do you lose?

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BarneyBattles
1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:


10k sold with the feel good factor of having saved our club. Subtract the feel good factor and how many of those 10k do you lose?

 

Well none according to your prediction up the page (you said season tickets will be 8-10k and FOH subscriptions will drop by 25-50%).

 

You're plucking figures out of thin air with nothing whatsoever to back them up so don't blame me if you get picked up for it.

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Saint Jambo

It would be a financial disaster, which as a fan owned club could threaten the club's existence. Unlike last time we would be going into the division with a premier league cost base. No administration to allow us to off load high earners. Far from being able to jettison the high performers, those players would sit on their contracts (a few might have relegation release clauses that we can trigger but unlikely for most). Only our best players would attract interest from elsewhere.

 

We have no idea whether the mystery benefactors will still be around next year (regardless of league) and no matter how many FOH members you think would stop payments, it's hard to deny that the end of the original purpose of FOH coinciding with relegation would be the worst timing for trying to retain members.

 

Add to that the points above about the league not having Rangers or Hibs and it would look grim.

 

That's even before getting on to the football side of traipsing round lower league grounds. No redeeming features this time around.

Edited by Saint Jambo

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glynnlondon
11 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Why would the club with by far the biggest resources in the league be down for a few years? That's a bit like saying Celtic won't win the league for a few years. Why would it take years to rebuild trust?

 

Not after an argument, I just genuinely don't think that would be the case. A few good decisions and results and we'd all be back on the happy rain.

A few good decisions sounds like a bridge too far with Budge and the rest of the divs still in charge.

Theirein lies the problem

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BarneyBattles
6 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

I’m sure they said the same about Dundee Utd.  Without splashing the big bucks on Shankland this season, they’d be back in the play off mix, let’s be honest.  

 

Hearts and Utd are not comparable clubs in terms of fan base, resources etc. 

 

Anyway, as I said before, I'm not after an argument, I just can't see why the vast majority of the Hearts support would turn their backs or take years to trust the club again.

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