rudeskaboyuk Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I am fully expecting some weird decision that goes against us in the scottish cup game against rangers but it got me thinking back to some others . I have watched hearts since 1982 and I am struggling to think of many acts of good fortune that went out way in pivotal matches. Maybe the 5-1 final with the sending off but I believe we still would have won that anyway. The semi final against Celtic hand ball? Perhaps but the luck went against us with their offside equaliser. I have seen so many major decisions that have been just so incredibly unfair. The Barry fergusson hand ball semi final. The Airdrie semi final when Henry supposedly took the ball a fraction out his box and was penalised which Airdrie scored the free kick from. I know I could go on and on with more examples but what i am trying to say is we have had a shed load more calls against us than for us. I am also reminded of two penalty decisions we were granted but then overruled by lines man. Dont recall Hearts ever getting that break. A last minute winner up in St Johnston old ground back in 1983 that hit the net as ref blew final whistle. Maybe I am seeing it all through Hearts tinted glasses but I certainly dont recall many breaks. Oooooh... I will give you thumbs goal at ER which may have marginally crossed the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectormasson Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, rudeskaboyuk said: I am fully expecting some weird decision that goes against us in the scottish cup game against rangers but it got me thinking back to some others . I have watched hearts since 1982 and I am struggling to think of many acts of good fortune that went out way in pivotal matches. Maybe the 5-1 final with the sending off but I believe we still would have won that anyway. The semi final against Celtic hand ball? Perhaps but the luck went against us with their offside equaliser. I have seen so many major decisions that have been just so incredibly unfair. The Barry fergusson hand ball semi final. The Airdrie semi final when Henry supposedly took the ball a fraction out his box and was penalised which Airdrie scored the free kick from. I know I could go on and on with more examples but what i am trying to say is we have had a shed load more calls against us than for us. I am also reminded of two penalty decisions we were granted but then overruled by lines man. Dont recall Hearts ever getting that break. A last minute winner up in St Johnston old ground back in 1983 that hit the net as ref blew final whistle. Maybe I am seeing it all through Hearts tinted glasses but I certainly dont recall many breaks. Oooooh... I will give you thumbs goal at ER which may have marginally crossed the line. First semi v airdrie ,,,robbo goal a foot over the line,plus big slims header chalked off for f....k all..... that's f.....g nauseating !!!🤮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 What goes around comes around (more often for the OF yes) but mind the Hibs goal that was about 2 foot ovet the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMJ_1874 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Last year’s penalty in the cup final. Bobby never touches him. Tucked his foot in and dived. I’m still raging btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaps Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Andy Davis and THAT penalty. That was the most poisonous atmosphere I can remember at a game after he gave that penalty. Absolute disgrace of a decision, still makes me angry now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) 4 sendings off at Ibrox in 96 Colin Cameron being given a 2nd booking for slipping. Arthur Numan getting off with breaking Gary Wales leg. Mark De Vries getting hauled back in the box by last man Boumsong, don't think he got sent off and did we get a pen? Brother Andy Davis giving that ridiculous last minute penalty for nothing. Alan McGregor karate kicking Clum. Kenny Millers assault on McHattie Morelos offside I'm sure there is about 1,000 more. Edited February 24, 2020 by Cruyff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 John Guidettis dive. The prick shh'd us after slotting the pen as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Fyssas red card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Just now, Jeff said: John Guidettis dive. The prick shh'd us after slotting the pen as well The SFA being open on a Saturday morning to register Sinclair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiler Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) Every supporter from every team will have this gripe. I look at it objectively now, and don’t let these things bother me. Years back at ER, the game we only got a wee section in the lower stand, cani mind the ref actually, but I thought it was the worst refereeing display I’d seen in a long time against us. Spoke to a Hibs ***** the next day, he also thought the ref was pish for them. So I thought, ah well. Edited February 24, 2020 by smiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, rudeskaboyuk said: The Airdrie semi final when Henry supposedly took the ball a fraction out his box and was penalised which Airdrie scored the free kick from. Sadly I think that was one the referee miraculously got right. I think Henry blundered by picking up the ball from a throw-in not long after it became an offence. I do recall the ref getting plenty wrong and telling him as he skulked off at half time that he was a disgrace to the badge (I'd passed my lowest level ref exam a couple of years previously). Edited February 24, 2020 by Boof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, Saughton Jambo said: Last year’s penalty in the cup final. Bobby never touches him. Tucked his foot in and dived. I’m still raging btw Yeah, wonder how the observer in the stand missed it? VAR would have helped there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Doodle Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, Cruyff said: 4 sendings off at Ibrox in 96 Colin Cameron being given a 2nd booking for slipping. Arthur Numan getting off with breaking Gary Wales leg. Mark De Vries getting hauled back in the box by last man Boumsong, don't think he got sent off and did we get a pen? Brother Andy Davis giving that ridiculous last minute penalty for nothing. Alan McGregor karate kicking Clum. Kenny Millers assault on McHattie Morelos offside I'm sure there is about 1,000 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Jambo Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 The Andy Davis incident and Jamie Walkers booking for diving at Ibrox are the two most obvious examples of blatant cheating and corruption. Nobody could put either down to incompetence alone. As it happens one of my colleagues who recently joined my team at work was telling me Andy Davis was the school “policeman” or something at her school in Glasgow. Apparently a big rangers fan and made no attempt to hide it. I’d always thought the chat about him having a season ticket at Ibrox was just rumours fuelled by the outrage until she told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 There is 100% some sort of agenda. I get the impression that most referees hate us, especially Madden, Beaton and Maclean in recent years. Even in the game we won against Rangers recently that ***** was on one. Absolutely mental performance, may as well have wore a blue strip that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Hectormasson said: First semi v airdrie ,,,robbo goal a foot over the line,plus big slims header chalked off for f....k all..... that's f.....g nauseating !!!🤮 bang on. Still makes me sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 29 minutes ago, H2 said: Yeah, wonder how the observer in the stand missed it? VAR would have helped there. and the press never mentioned it. Not once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimCornette Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Negative: - Fyssas rid caird against Ceptic - Colin Hendry stone waller penalty hack on Sandy Clarke in '86 - Foul on Wee Robbo on the touchline just before Gascoigne broke our hearts in 1996 Coca-Cola Cup final Positive: - The time Griffiths shot went a mile over the line and bounced out was a good example of stuff going our way. - The rid cairds for Killie and Hamilton the past few games this season have hardly been stone wallers. - Cup final penalty for us at the start and McCoist denial at the end was quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Was it not Beaton that said to Berra that Morellos was “silly”? feking summed up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 It’s been going on for years and will go on for many more years. We have had some gone our way as well but nowhere near as many as seem to have gone against us, but then most non old firm followers would say the same. Probably the biggest that have gone for us that I remember would include the Kilmarnock equaliser in the 1962 League Cup final that was ruled out, probably wrongly. We should also include the penalty that Rangers didn’t get in 1998, when another linesman may have taken a more traditional view of where the foul took place. Against us, I would say the Aberdeen penalty at Tynecastle in 1986, when Miller took Bob Valentine for a walk to the spot to make sure they got it, for a supposed hand ball. May have cost us the league more than the last day shenanigans. The 3 Airdrie semi finals all had controversy that went against us. Let’s not forget the foul before Rangers scored their 3rd in the 1996 League Cup final not being given. The momentum was with us until then. So many incidents, too many to mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo414 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Chaps said: Andy Davis and THAT penalty. That was the most poisonous atmosphere I can remember at a game after he gave that penalty. Absolute disgrace of a decision, still makes me angry now Worked with a lassie from the west who was telling me one day that her Dad was a massive Rangers fan, as well as the whole family. Found out about 2 years later when her Dad posted a lovely birthday message on her Facebook page that she was Andy Davis’ wee lass. Every time Rangers get dodgy decisions against us, I make a point of posting about how the refs have always been old firm *******s. Haven’t gotten a bite yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Iain Brines ,the Zal red v Aberdeen ,which he refused to allow to be overturned and said he was happy with his decision ,even though the pictures clearly showed it was Miller who tried to butt Zal ,Zal missed 3 games .The mystery hand ball against Ayr in the league cup. The red card of Fyssas in the new year game v Celtic ,which ended any chance we had of the title, he years later admitted he got it wrong . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, rudeskaboyuk said: I am fully expecting some weird decision that goes against us in the scottish cup game against rangers but it got me thinking back to some others . I have watched hearts since 1982 and I am struggling to think of many acts of good fortune that went out way in pivotal matches. Maybe the 5-1 final with the sending off but I believe we still would have won that anyway. The semi final against Celtic hand ball? Perhaps but the luck went against us with their offside equaliser. I have seen so many major decisions that have been just so incredibly unfair. The Barry fergusson hand ball semi final. The Airdrie semi final when Henry supposedly took the ball a fraction out his box and was penalised which Airdrie scored the free kick from. I know I could go on and on with more examples but what i am trying to say is we have had a shed load more calls against us than for us. I am also reminded of two penalty decisions we were granted but then overruled by lines man. Dont recall Hearts ever getting that break. A last minute winner up in St Johnston old ground back in 1983 that hit the net as ref blew final whistle. Maybe I am seeing it all through Hearts tinted glasses but I certainly dont recall many breaks. Oooooh... I will give you thumbs goal at ER which may have marginally crossed the line. 98 cup final penalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 hours ago, smiler said: Every supporter from every team will have this gripe. I look at it objectively now, and don’t let these things bother me. Years back at ER, the game we only got a wee section in the lower stand, cani mind the ref actually, but I thought it was the worst refereeing display I’d seen in a long time against us. Spoke to a Hibs ***** the next day, he also thought the ref was pish for them. So I thought, ah well. What would one of them know about football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, 1971fozzy said: Was it not Beaton that said to Berra that Morellos was “silly”? feking summed up there Madden I think but no difference between them tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 It’s funny how they’re all against the Old Firm. Ones not mentioned I remembered was Stephen Elliott’s “goal” against Celtic. Also David Obua getting sent off for brushing Mulgrew. The night Lennon got attacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyrood_Hearts Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Deary me what a thread!! Yeah we’ve had decisions go against us over the years but in two of the last 3 SC finals we’ve won, we received a pen for a foul just outside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Holyrood_Hearts said: Deary me what a thread!! Yeah we’ve had decisions go against us over the years but in two of the last 3 SC finals we’ve won, we received a pen for a foul just outside the box. The thread is decisions against us, not for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Holyrood_Hearts said: Deary me what a thread!! Yeah we’ve had decisions go against us over the years but in two of the last 3 SC finals we’ve won, we received a pen for a foul just outside the box. Maybe. I wouldn’t think the Stevie Fulton one is certainly outside. On the line is a penalty. Ferguson had got away with kicking more legs than balls in the 1996 final, so it was poetic justice for him. In 2006, we didn’t get a certain penalty when Main brought down Rudi Skacel when he was certain to score. Could have cost us the cup. 2012 we won 5-1 so the penalty decision maybe wasn’t that crucial. It was still a second yellow/red card, to make Hibs play a long time with 10 and already 2-1 down. Maybe we wouldn’t have stopped trying to score more so early, if we hadn’t scored so early in the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Mr 3 Putt said: What goes around comes around (more often for the OF yes) but mind the Hibs goal that was about 2 foot ovet the line? How could we forget? The very prominence of that let off is because it was an isolated incident. I went to my first Hearts game in 1956 and, if I listed all the vital decisions that went against us, it would make Tolstoy look like diarist. Just one, the stick-on early penalty we never got at Dens in 86. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Chaps said: Andy Davis and THAT penalty. That was the most poisonous atmosphere I can remember at a game after he gave that penalty. Absolute disgrace of a decision, still makes me angry now I brought a blue nose mate (proper hard core NI protestant farmer) to the game for his 40th birthday. Even he sat there incredulous at that episode. Scandalous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyphoonJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: How could we forget? The very prominence of that let off is because it was an isolated incident. I went to my first Hearts game in 1956 and, if I listed all the vital decisions that went against us, it would make Tolstoy look like diarist. Just one, the stick-on early penalty we never got at Dens in 86. Ive watched that again and again and its probably the most blatant penalty ever. As has been mentioned before, the ref was a Jambo. He worked in Ferrantis Crewe Toll with my late father. When asked about it he would say "no top class ref is giving a penalty that early in such an important game" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Jeff said: John Guidettis dive. The prick shh'd us after slotting the pen as well Remains the worst decision I've ever seen live. Had a great view of it from where I sat in the main stand at the time, and it was clear as day that there was zero contact. Guidetti was about a foot away. We were up against it early on in that game when Collum sent Gomis off. Sure that was dubious as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazinho88 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Chaps said: Andy Davis and THAT penalty. That was the most poisonous atmosphere I can remember at a game after he gave that penalty. Absolute disgrace of a decision, still makes me angry now Normally quite calm at matches but I was absolutely raging at this game. Sat in section G at the time and I would agree that poisonous is the right way to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trumpet Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Andy Webster elbowing himself in the face against Celtic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 hours ago, Chaps said: Andy Davis and THAT penalty. That was the most poisonous atmosphere I can remember at a game after he gave that penalty. Absolute disgrace of a decision, still makes me angry now It's the smug look on that cheat Davis ugly coupon that gets me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 The goal that wasn't v rangers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Drifter Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 hours ago, rudeskaboyuk said: I am fully expecting some weird decision that goes against us in the scottish cup game against rangers but it got me thinking back to some others . I have watched hearts since 1982 and I am struggling to think of many acts of good fortune that went out way in pivotal matches. Maybe the 5-1 final with the sending off but I believe we still would have won that anyway. The semi final against Celtic hand ball? Perhaps but the luck went against us with their offside equaliser. I have seen so many major decisions that have been just so incredibly unfair. The Barry fergusson hand ball semi final. The Airdrie semi final when Henry supposedly took the ball a fraction out his box and was penalised which Airdrie scored the free kick from. I know I could go on and on with more examples but what i am trying to say is we have had a shed load more calls against us than for us. I am also reminded of two penalty decisions we were granted but then overruled by lines man. Dont recall Hearts ever getting that break. A last minute winner up in St Johnston old ground back in 1983 that hit the net as ref blew final whistle. Maybe I am seeing it all through Hearts tinted glasses but I certainly dont recall many breaks. Oooooh... I will give you thumbs goal at ER which may have marginally crossed the line. Takis Fysas getting sent off v Celtic in the "title decider" (ahem) at Tynie, New Year's Day game, guess it was 2006? Red card subsequently rescinded, as I recall, but Celtic (who were behind at the time) went on to win the game and the league. Think the ref was Ian Brines, who didn't ref another game at Tynie for about five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscott82 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Anybody mentioned Jamie Hamill getting a penalty against him for handball after getting skelped in the puss by the ball? Think it was against Caley Thistle? Loads of others I remember - the Andy Davis incident, Rudi getting rugby tackled by Main in the ‘06 final, the Guidetti dive, the Elliott header against Celtic that was a foot over the line and not given, their equaliser in the semi in 2012, their ‘penalty’ in last season’s final, Takis getting sent off, the penalty Dallas Jr gave against us at St Johnstone last season. **** me, the list just goes on and on! Another one one from the ‘06 final - that hibs ***** Townsley assaulting SPH with no punishment, resulting in our main penalty taker getting sent off for retaliation with about 2 minutes left in extra time. And even just just a few weeks ago, the 2 huns that took turns at wiping out Henderson, either or both could quite easily have walked instead of being booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkbam Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 5 hours ago, ri Alban said: 98 cup final penalty? Willy Young never forgave us for that, we didn't get a decision off him for the rest of his career! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Definitely be a hands the game to rangers decision in the cup tie. With the league over, the beaks will be desperate for an old firm final. Once again if we are to win, we must beat 14 men!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: It’s funny how they’re all against the Old Firm. Ones not mentioned I remembered was Stephen Elliott’s “goal” against Celtic. Also David Obua getting sent off for brushing Mulgrew. The night Lennon got attacked. Hamiltons 1st goal last week was 2 yards off, hopeless slow linesman to blame for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I hate after a replay when its then proven the official has guessed what happened. If it didnt happen then you could never have seen it happen. Therefore you guessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, trumpet said: Andy Webster elbowing himself in the face against Celtic. John Hartson ? That was one of the most bizarre excuses from a manager you'll ever hear. Top prize to Martin O'Neill. And the Glasgow press went with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, TypoonJambo said: Ive watched that again and again and its probably the most blatant penalty ever. As has been mentioned before, the ref was a Jambo. He worked in Ferrantis Crewe Toll with my late father. When asked about it he would say "no top class ref is giving a penalty that early in such an important game" A Glasgow referee would have given it for Celtic or Rangers, no matter how early it was. There really shouldn't have been an Edinburgh referee for that game. It must have put him under pressure to make sure he erred on the side of not giving Hearts anything that could be stated as doubtful by Celtic's mob later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, jkbam said: Willy Young never forgave us for that, we didn't get a decision off him for the rest of his career! 🤣 He never forgave us ? He was the sodden ref ! He gave us the penalty ! This is another oh woe is me thread. Aye, there’s been some shockers over the years, but c’mon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: A Glasgow referee would have given it for Celtic or Rangers, no matter how early it was. There really shouldn't have been an Edinburgh referee for that game. It must have put him under pressure to make sure he erred on the side of not giving Hearts anything that could be stated as doubtful by Celtic's mob later. This is the problem with refs, If it breaks the rules it is an offence no matter what time it is in the game. You rarely see early cards or pens just like how some players on a yellow continue to go on fouling but never get the 2nd yellow. Scottish refs have a long history of turning a blind eye when certain teams are involved but also seeing things no one else does if they need a little hand. Some of the decisions going against most clubs from match to match are ridiculous and has a massive effect on how some clubs struggle to survive because of poor decisions. I imagine being a ref is a hard job because they have a different view than supporters/TV has but its just not possible to make so many wrong decisions and then have them backed up by a corrupt FA panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, jkbam said: Willy Young never forgave us for that, we didn't get a decision off him for the rest of his career! He must have been given some telling off for awarding us a pen v Rangers by his superiors. Imagine that Rangers getting a pen against them in a major domestic cup final resulting in The JTs lifting the cup. Has it happened since? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: The thread is decisions against us, not for us. It is But OP actually talks about decisions in our favour. The big big decision in my time is not getting an early penalty at Dens Park in 1986. None of the others had as big an impact. We got several key decisions in our favour in the 2012 Cup run. But that is just what can happen in Cup runs or Cup finals. Edited February 25, 2020 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schevchenko Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Maloney's dive leading to Takis getting sent off was a shocker. Possibly cost us the league!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.