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If Levein still in charge

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Spoleto
7 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


You stated some pretty solid opinions about Levein not being welcome at Tynecastle earlier GT.

 

He did say that he was flexible though. 

 

When it suits him 🙂

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Cruickshank for Scotland
11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

When we have crap seasons 10 years in the future will it still be Levein's fault? What a bunch of miserable arseholes.


No but if we get relegated THIS year it will be!

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Spoleto
2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


My contribution is the same as many other Hearts fans - Long time ST holder, shareholder, FoH contributor - and my Company assisted with the building of the new stand. Nothing to shout about really.

 

Your question would seem to suggest that if you didn’t play for Hearts it Manage the Club you have no right to criticise a Manager who presided over a disastrous run of results that left us fighting for our lives with a strong chance of being relegated - is that correct?

 

And yet you are happy with a manager who has taken 6 points from 30?

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Governor Tarkin
13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

When we have crap seasons 10 years in the future will it still be Levein's fault? What a bunch of miserable arseholes.

 

Damn right. :seething:

 

10 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


You stated some pretty solid opinions about Levein not being welcome at Tynecastle earlier GT.

 

Meh, they'll be different by the morning. :seething:

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Spoleto
17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

You obviously didn't live through the 85/86 campaign and some of the seasons after that. So you'll never know.

 

Likewise the guy slagging off John Colquhoun a couple of posts above for no reason. Legends both.

 

Couldn't quite believe the boy slagging off Colquhoun. Mental!

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Cruickshank for Scotland
Just now, Spoleto said:

 

And yet you are happy with a manager who has taken 6 points from 30?


Who said I was happy?

I am realistic enough however to acknowledge that Stendel was left with a pile of shite by Levein!

Are you suggesting he should be sacked?

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jockmac
23 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


No. Trying to build a case for a club legend not being welcome at a Tynecastle is shameful.

 

Not doing a good enough a job as manager is not shameful.

 

Your attitude towards a club legend is very shameful.

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  

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Cruickshank for Scotland
1 minute ago, jockmac said:

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  


Exactly!

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Aaron78
5 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

And yet you are happy with a manager who has taken 6 points from 30? 

Leveins record was 5 points out of the last 30 and he'd been in charge for 2 years. So worse than Stendel and he'd had the benefit of numerous transfer windows and had still lumbered us with a terrible and underperforming squad who have scored less points than any other team in the spl in the last year. 

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Hearts1975
5 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

And yet you are happy with a manager who has taken 6 points from 30?

😀

And you are happy with a manager who took 15 points from 84 in 2019 ?

And left us rock bottom

He also oversaw the signing of over 70 players in his tenure

and left a squad for Stendel to sort out 

your off your heid

 

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Hearts1975
Just now, Aaron78 said:

Leveins record was 5 points out of the last 30 and he'd been in charge for 2 years. So worse than Stendel and he'd had the benefit of numerous transfer windows and had still lumbered us with a terrible and underperforming squad who have scored less points than any other team in the spl in the last year. 

👍

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Cruickshank for Scotland
2 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

😀

And you are happy with a manager who took 15 points from 84 in 2019 ?

And left us rock bottom

He also oversaw the signing of over 70 players in his tenure

and left a squad for Stendel to sort out 

your off your heid

 


BINGO! 👍

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Special Officer Doofy
8 minutes ago, jockmac said:

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  


Was it not? What abuse was MacKay on the receiving end of that Levein was not?

 

Levein has taken far more abuse than any other Hearts legend I can think of on here.

 

Happy to be convinced otherwise though...

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ToqueJambo
10 minutes ago, jockmac said:

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  

 

Mackay spends his days ranting about Hearts. Sometimes he's right. Levein spends his days trying to help Hearts. Sometimes he does.

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Governor Tarkin
27 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

He did say that he was flexible though. 

 

When it suits him 🙂

 

Correct on both counts.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Mackay spends his days ranting about Hearts. Sometimes he's right. Levein spends his days trying to help Hearts. Sometimes he does.


Some help you can do without...

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Jambo-Fox
48 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Not want to answer then Thomaso?
 

Do you believe you have contributed as much to HMFC as Craig Levein?

Thomaso ... that’s a name from the past, think he was involved with building the new stand (at least I think he claimed that) but spent all day posting on JKB, not sure how much work got done .....

 

but perhaps that’s all wrong, Cruickshank for Scotland ... thoughts?

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Last Laff
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

You obviously didn't live through the 85/86 campaign and some of the seasons after that. So you'll never know.

 

Likewise the guy slagging off John Colquhoun a couple of posts above for no reason. Legends both.


JC is my fave ever hearts player ahead of Robbo.  He’s a legend to me so in that way I can see why Levein would be a legend to many.  Good point.  JC coming back coincided with my first season ticket (8 or 9) so yeah was too young for 85/6. 

Edited by Last Laff

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Governor Tarkin
55 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

He did say that he was flexible though. 

 

When it suits him 🙂

 

Correct on both counts.

 

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HMFC 86
3 hours ago, jockmac said:

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  


Excellent post

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TheTrumpet
4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Mackay spends his days ranting about Hearts. Sometimes he's right. Levein spends his days trying to help Hearts. Sometimes he does.

Mackay is paid to talk about Hearts. Levein was paid to help Hearts. I know which one has done a better job.

Edited by TheTrumpet

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The Real Maroonblood
8 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


There’s certainly loads of dafties - have a look in the mirror for a perfect example! 😉

:laugh:

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Randy Marsh
7 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

😀

And you are happy with a manager who took 15 points from 84 in 2019 ?

And left us rock bottom

He also oversaw the signing of over 70 players in his tenure

and left a squad for Stendel to sort out 

your off your heid

 

 

This.  Its a waste of time replying to that poster as he's a wee bit special.  Thankfully he will disappear after we win our next two matches.   

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Smithee

Damn straight JC don't do humility, and don't you forget it. ****ing ledge.

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Alex Kintner

In Daniel I trust

 

:flag1:

Edited by Alex Kintner

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Governor Tarkin
48 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Damn straight JC don't do humility, and don't you forget it. ****ing ledge.

 

It breaks my heart knowing that JC is Celtic minded.

 

Loved him growing up.

Flying down the wing and getting chopped with waist-high flying tackles. 

Dusting himself down without complaint, ready to go again. Marvellous.

Man's game back then.

 

Totally indifferent to him now.

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Governor Tarkin
8 hours ago, Spoleto said:

 

Couldn't quite believe the boy slagging off Colquhoun. Mental!

 

A PHM like Enzo can say what he wants about who he wants.

 

That's not even up for discussion.

 

The REAL Hearts fans who browse this board but can't be arsed posting due to the sickening Budge & Levein F.C. sycophancy will be skimming through his posts and nodding along in quiet agreement.

 

You can rest assured about that. 

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Smithee
7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It breaks my heart knowing that JC is Celtic minded.

 

Loved him growing up.

Flying down the wing and getting chopped with waist-high flying tackles. 

Dusting himself down without complaint, ready to go again. Marvellous.

Man's game back then.

 

Totally indifferent to him now.

Not me, you can't take away what he gave any more than you could with Hartley. 

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Governor Tarkin
7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Not me, you can't take away what he gave any more than you could with Hartley. 

 

I can't separate the artist from his art. :seething:

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Boab
Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A PHM like Enzo can say what he wants about who he wants.

 

That's not even up for discussion.

 

The REAL Hearts fans who browse this board but can't be arsed posting due to the sickening Budge & Levein F.C. sycophancy will be skimming through his posts and nodding along in quiet agreement.

 

You can rest assured about that. 


:guitarist:

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Uilleam

Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose forget the past lets look forward to restoring our pride at Tynecastle Park.

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Governor Tarkin
21 minutes ago, Uilleam said:

Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose forget the past lets look forward to restoring our pride at Tynecastle Park.

 

:greatpost:

 

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portobellojambo1
10 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

@Cruikshank for Scotland

 

Do you believe you have contributed as much towards HMFC as Craig Levein?

 

 

 

I'm not looking to get involved in any sort of arguments or anything but can I ask a genuine question. What defines a club legend and what someone has put into HMFC, especially when you are looking to make comparisons between someone who has been lucky enough to be employed by the club and a fan of the club. People employed by HMFC are being paid by HMFC to do a job, they are effectively getting money coming out of the club budget. People who support HMFC are putting money into the club, they are effectively creating part of the budget the club has to continue operating. The term legend, when used when talking about a player, what makes a player a legend. Just playing for Hearts, working for Hearts presumably doesn't make you a legend, and I'm guessing it is a term reached by fans based on what they remember about the person being given that accolade. There are differing opinions on Craig Levein's time at HMFC and I think it is fairly accurate to say the differences all relate almost 100% to the period Craig has been employed by the club in a non playing capacity. I think the number of fans who would have much to say negatively about Craig Levein as a player are few and far between. He was very good as a player, but did what he achieve as a player mean he sits at the status of a club legend, did he achieve anything special/unique as a player, again that is down to opinion. He didn't win anything as a player at HMFC, so in terms of legendary status does that put him behind all those players who were involved as players in 1998, 2006 and 2012, for example. As for management at HMFC, again the club hasn't won anything while he has carried out that role, so in management terms he has to be way behind the three managers who were in charge in the cup winning seasons you would think, again depending on what attributes create the actual status of club legend. I think HMFC fans put a lot into the club, time, effort and money being only three of many components, but I'm not sure any of them will ever feel they are legends, except possibly in the eyes of close friends, and very often only after they have passed away. While I'm not a big fan of the term legend at all I also think it is almost impossible to make comparisons between what employees and fans put into the club.

Edited by portobellojambo1

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jambonian
Just now, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'm not looking to get involved in any sort of arguments or anything but can I ask a genuine question. What defines a club legend and what someone has put into HMFC, especially when you are looking to make comparisons between someone who has been lucky enough to be employed by the club and a fan of the club. People employed by HMFC are being paid by HMFC to do a job, they are effectively getting money coming out of the club budget. People who support HMFC are putting money into the club, they are effectively creating part of the budget the club has to continue operating. The term legend, when used when talking about a player, what makes a player a legend. Just playing for Hearts, working for Hearts presumably doesn't make you a legend, and I'm guessing it is a term reached by fans based on what they remember about the person being given that accolade. There are differing opinions on Craig Levein's time at HMFC and I think it is fairly accurate to say the differences all relate almost 100% to the period Craig has been employed by the club in a non playing capacity. I think the number of fans who would have much to say negatively about Craig Levein as a player are few and far between. He was very good as a player, but did what he achieve as a player mean he sits at the status of a club legend, did he achieve anything special/unique as a player, again that is down to opinion. He didn't win anything as a player at HMFC, so in terms of legendary status does that put him behind all those players who were involved as players in 1998, 2006 and 2012, for example. As for management at HMFC, again the club hasn't won anything while he has carried out that role, so in management terms he has to be way behind the three managers who were in charge in the cup winning seasons you would think, again depending on what attributes create the actual status of club legend. I think HMFC fans put a lot into the club, time, effort and money being only three of many components, but I'm not sure any of them will ever feel they are legends, except possibly in the eyes of close friends, and very often only after they have passed away. While I'm not a big fan of the term legend at all I also think it is almost impossible to make comparisons between what employees and fans put into the club.

 

The word "legend" is banded about too much. And for what it's worth, there are different types of "legend"

John Robertson is a legend because he's one of the top ever goal-scorers in our history. Henry Smith can also be classed as a legend purely on the fact that he was the main goalkeeper for around thirteen years so appearances alone make him, more than Rousset, Niemi or Gordon.  Same with Gary Mackay. Most appearances in a Hearts jersey. Then there's the Cup winning teams. Every team that wins a trophy can be classed as a team of legends seeing as we're a club that doesn't win trophies very often but, when you look at them individually, are Danny Grainger and Ian Black Hearts legends? Jim Jeffries is a Hearts legend. Stayed loyal and played most of his career in a poor Hearts team but came back as manager and won the Cup. Left and came back again when Laszlo was sacked and got us in third place with loads of games left and uncatchable. Rudi Skacel, Stephane Adam and others are all legends for their contribution, not only winning the Cup but consistent throughout their time here. Is Craig Levein a legend? Probably not. Well, not to me. He was one of the best defenders I've ever seen wear the famous maroon, no doubt about that but if it wasn't for injuries, he would've been off to another club without a moments thought about Hearts. John Colquhoun was probably the best £50k we've ever spent and was one of the best wingers I've ever watched playing for us. The ultimate professional who didn't whinge and moan about being ruffed up every week, just got on with it but was he a legend? There are loads of examples but everyone has their own "legendary" status in their mind.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
42 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

The word "legend" is banded about too much. And for what it's worth, there are different types of "legend"

John Robertson is a legend because he's one of the top ever goal-scorers in our history. Henry Smith can also be classed as a legend purely on the fact that he was the main goalkeeper for around thirteen years so appearances alone make him, more than Rousset, Niemi or Gordon.  Same with Gary Mackay. Most appearances in a Hearts jersey. Then there's the Cup winning teams. Every team that wins a trophy can be classed as a team of legends seeing as we're a club that doesn't win trophies very often but, when you look at them individually, are Danny Grainger and Ian Black Hearts legends? Jim Jeffries is a Hearts legend. Stayed loyal and played most of his career in a poor Hearts team but came back as manager and won the Cup. Left and came back again when Laszlo was sacked and got us in third place with loads of games left and uncatchable. Rudi Skacel, Stephane Adam and others are all legends for their contribution, not only winning the Cup but consistent throughout their time here. Is Craig Levein a legend? Probably not. Well, not to me. He was one of the best defenders I've ever seen wear the famous maroon, no doubt about that but if it wasn't for injuries, he would've been off to another club without a moments thought about Hearts. John Colquhoun was probably the best £50k we've ever spent and was one of the best wingers I've ever watched playing for us. The ultimate professional who didn't whinge and moan about being ruffed up every week, just got on with it but was he a legend? There are loads of examples but everyone has their own "legendary" status in their mind.


Post of the week! 👍

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Special Officer Doofy
1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'm not looking to get involved in any sort of arguments or anything but can I ask a genuine question. What defines a club legend and what someone has put into HMFC, especially when you are looking to make comparisons between someone who has been lucky enough to be employed by the club and a fan of the club. People employed by HMFC are being paid by HMFC to do a job, they are effectively getting money coming out of the club budget. People who support HMFC are putting money into the club, they are effectively creating part of the budget the club has to continue operating. The term legend, when used when talking about a player, what makes a player a legend. Just playing for Hearts, working for Hearts presumably doesn't make you a legend, and I'm guessing it is a term reached by fans based on what they remember about the person being given that accolade. There are differing opinions on Craig Levein's time at HMFC and I think it is fairly accurate to say the differences all relate almost 100% to the period Craig has been employed by the club in a non playing capacity. I think the number of fans who would have much to say negatively about Craig Levein as a player are few and far between. He was very good as a player, but did what he achieve as a player mean he sits at the status of a club legend, did he achieve anything special/unique as a player, again that is down to opinion. He didn't win anything as a player at HMFC, so in terms of legendary status does that put him behind all those players who were involved as players in 1998, 2006 and 2012, for example. As for management at HMFC, again the club hasn't won anything while he has carried out that role, so in management terms he has to be way behind the three managers who were in charge in the cup winning seasons you would think, again depending on what attributes create the actual status of club legend. I think HMFC fans put a lot into the club, time, effort and money being only three of many components, but I'm not sure any of them will ever feel they are legends, except possibly in the eyes of close friends, and very often only after they have passed away. While I'm not a big fan of the term legend at all I also think it is almost impossible to make comparisons between what employees and fans put into the club.


The legend definition debate has been done to death really. I suppose it’s subjective to the individual really. For me his overall contribution to the club over a great many years through success and heartbreak puts him in that category. Player and manager, he has been through some of the best and worst times with our club, from 1986 to Braga, he’s put his life’s work in to HMFC. 
 

Whether you, Thomaso or myself think he is a legend or not is perhaps irrelevant anyway though. What is for certain, is he deserves more respect than he gets, and he should always be welcome at Tynecastle.

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Enzo Chiefo
2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A PHM like Enzo can say what he wants about who he wants.

 

That's not even up for discussion.

 

The REAL Hearts fans who browse this board but can't be arsed posting due to the sickening Budge & Levein F.C. sycophancy will be skimming through his posts and nodding along in quiet agreement.

 

You can rest assured about that. 

Cheers Guvnor. I can still picture JC's strike against Sellick on his debut, a goal that would have won the game and, as it turned out, the league  were it not for McStay's late equaliser.  He was a great player for us in his first spelll but he is indeed Sellick-minded so if our record appearance holder, Gary Mackay, who has paid to watch his club at home and abroad for many years, can attract personal abuse from posters on here, then the likes of Colquhoun and Levein should certainly not be treated as protected species. I doubt whether either have paid to watch us. Some on here need to separate the character and person from the footballing memories

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ToqueJambo
13 hours ago, TheTrumpet said:

Mackay is paid to talk about Hearts. Levein was paid to help Hearts. I know which one has done a better job.

 

Since both stopped playing, Levein has done the better job.

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TheTrumpet
1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Since both stopped playing, Levein has done the better job.

I'm not too sure about that. If by better job you mean huge amount of damage then yes, I agree.

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ToqueJambo
4 minutes ago, TheTrumpet said:

I'm not too sure about that. If by better job you mean huge amount of damage then yes, I agree.

 

You know he managed us before right?

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TheTrumpet
3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

You know he managed us before right?

Yes, but look at where Hearts are today.

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Nicholas Brody
1 minute ago, TheTrumpet said:

Yes, but look at where Hearts are today.

 

We weren't exactly flying in the league with him at the helm.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
2 minutes ago, Nicholas Brody said:

 

We weren't exactly flying in the league with him at the helm.


We have been the relegation form team under Levein since October 2018!

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Ultras Granata 1874

I started watching Hearts in the 80s and JC, Mackay & Levein (easily the best defender we've had) are absolute legends in my eyes. Much easier to be a pundit than a manager though and only one has tried it. CL absolutely loves this club and he obviously didn't deliberately put us in this position, he had to go but there's no need for the hatred towards him on here. 

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ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


We have been the relegation form team under Levein since October 2018!

 

Did we get relegated in 2018/9? No. We were never even in threat of getting into a relegation battle and finished just a few points off 5th after a horrendous run of injuries. Seasons don't run into each other FFS, starting at some random date that suits your agenda.

 

Last season - poor last 2/3rds of the season for a variety of reasons, injuries being the main one. Never in danger of relegation.

This season - very much relegation contenders

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Jambo-Fox

SOH Craig please!

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Cruickshank for Scotland
17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Did we get relegated in 2018/9? No. We were never even in threat of getting into a relegation battle and finished just a few points off 5th after a horrendous run of injuries. Seasons don't run into each other FFS, starting at some random date that suits your agenda.

 

Last season - poor last 2/3rds of the season for a variety of reasons, injuries being the main one. Never in danger of relegation.

This season - very much relegation contenders


I was referring to the downward trend from Oct 2018 under Levein - but bash on I’m still depressed after that result today and have no heart for an argument.

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Pasquale for King
21 hours ago, jockmac said:

It’s funny how the same attitude to a club legend is not reciprocated when it’s Gary Mackay. Extreme double standards, as the shameful abuse dished out to Mackay, strangely comes from the Levein apologists!  

Indeed, and Mackay has done little compared to what Levein has and what might come.

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ToqueJambo
5 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


I was referring to the downward trend from Oct 2018 under Levein - but bash on I’m still depressed after that result today and have no heart for an argument.

 

It's only relegation form if you're in danger of getting relegated, which we weren't in 2018/19.

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Boab
Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's only relegation form if you're in danger of getting relegated, which we weren't in 2018/19.


The fact the argument is now 6th against possible relegation is a depressing thought.

Have we stooped that low that using an average league position is a debatable thing ?

 

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