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FoH - final installment of BidCo payment made - share transfer likely in April

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jimbojambo

I'm sure I read that player's contracts all had relegation clauses inserted which I presume means lower pay and therefore lower operating costs. Plus Robbie has stated that he will look at the squad and move on a few so he can bring his own players in.

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Kiwidoug

Surely our expenditure is significantly determined by the size of the support from benefactors.  I'm sure AB will be extremely keen to see the stand finished.  That's not cheap.

 

On the playing side I hope the players are on a modest basic and enticing bonuses.

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Beast Boy

“Profiting“... ****ing hell... some people.

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Kiwidoug

 They've gone quiet over there on HSL.  If they'd raise £150,000 in July I'm sure we would have heard.no transfer income coming in will surely do them significant harm.  Let's hope that's what happens.

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Coco
6 hours ago, davemclaren said:

How many companies publish the terms of loans they take?

 

There are related party loan disclosure rules but I think Hearts might be slightly bigger than the thresholds for that disclosure requirement.

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McCrae
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

Don't talk pish ya slaver :rofl:

 

Great contribution... did you have to think long and hard about that post.

 

Another waster added to the ignore list.

Edited by McCrae

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DETTY29
Posted (edited)

Key pages are

 

13 - Financing activities

23 - Interest payable and similar expenses

27-28 Loans and overdrafts

32 - Related party transactions.

 

Page 30 The FOH funding history. Just for info.

 

 

Annual Report & Financial Statements.pdf

Edited by DETTY29

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McCrae
18 hours ago, Section Q said:

When Murray kept his parliamentary seat at the last election I was pleased because if he had lost I could see him as our next chairman. Politics aside, the man's a worm.

 

Ian Murray is a good guy. Very popular in his constituency and works hard to help people, regardless of their politics.

 

Would be a great addition to our board.

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Glamorgan Jambo
7 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Ian Murray is a good guy. Very popular in his constituency and works hard to help people, regardless of their politics.

 

Would be a great addition to our board.


100% agreed. I’ve just finished reading his book and while he’s no literary genius he’s very well switched on and knows how to deal with some quite difficult people.

 

One area our board lacks skills in is politics in the broadest sense of the word. I have absolutely no doubt that Ann’s very capable and had the utmost integrity but I feel we have suffered from a lack of balance on the board which would be redressed by bringing in the likes of Ian Murray’s skill set and JJ’s football

knowledge.

 

ps before anyone accuses me of politics all I’ll say is that if I lived in Edinburgh South I likely wouldn’t vote for Ian.

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Section Q
16 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Ian Murray is a good guy. Very popular in his constituency and works hard to help people, regardless of their politics.

 

Would be a great addition to our board.

Is that you Ian....?

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McCrae
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Is that you Ian....?

 

No... Just someone who knows Ian and rates him highly.

 

Easy for you to slag someone off ...  your thoughts on Ian are not representative of the majority of people who have dealt with him.

 

He has contributed more to save Hearts than you or I ever will.

Edited by McCrae

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Section Q
15 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

No... Just someone who knows Ian and rates him highly.

 

Easy for you to slag someone off ...  your thoughts on Ian are not representative of the majority of people who have dealt with him.

 

He has contributed more to save Hearts than you or I ever will.

That's what he told me when when I told him I was a season ticket holder. You don't have any idea what my contribution is to the club, and I'm glad he does something to help his constituents because that's his job......

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Francis Albert
7 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

We're set up as a premier league club. Yes, we've significantly cut costs due to Covid and will likely cut more, but you can't force players to leave if they don't want to and you can't just shift to a Championship budget for the team at the drop of a hat.

 

You know that.

Even clubs like Spurs and Man City apparently  include clauses in players' contracts providing for a cut in salaries in the event of relegation. Did we?

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Francis Albert
10 hours ago, davemclaren said:

How many companies publish the terms of loans they take?

We were told the interest rate on Ann's original loan.

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Lone Striker
22 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Not sure if you’re being churlish, obtuse, or both.

 

You were saying earlier that you wish people would stoop going on about the money Ann has attracted to the club, because it’s not worth having it when we’ve been shite on the field.

 

The benefactor money has come in because of the way she runs the business side of things. That’s what Anderson’s trust is all about. He/they only put in funds to businesses who fulfil certain criteria. Hearts under Budge fulfil those criteria. Then there’s the other things she has overseen that have seen us more than double our turnover. 

 

Of course that money is worth having. There is no argument about that. It needs spent better when it comes to the first team. However, obviously it is worth having and to pretend otherwise is frankly mental.

 

I agree with your viewpoint on the FoH money being valuable, while the issue is trying to ensure that it's spent wisely - same with JA's benefactor money.     

 

Not sure if this is what Taffin is getting at, but there may be a culture of reliance on artificially bloated resources developing within the club.  Bonus money ... outside of usual football & hospitality operational income, if you like.     It's  come into focus now, following our disastrous/erratic football performance this season - otherwise we'd happily be glossing over it and developing our own sense of normality about the extra "unearned" 2 or 3 or 4 million coming in each year.         I wonder what the HMFC directors are now thinking about all this - surely they have to impose much more control over expenditure from now on,  to the point of  treating a substantial  chunk of FoH & JA  donations as  "emergency reserve only".    As others have pointed out, it should be possible to win the Championship without this extra money in normal circumstances -  although clearly we are not in normal circumstances right now (huge squad costs and legal bill). 

 

If the FoH directors on the HMFC board are not questioning Ann on pretty much every decision now, there's something wrong.

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Dunks
2 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

Great contribution... did you have to think long and hard about that post.

 

Another waster added to the ignore list.

 

Nope - it reflects the experience of my own eyes watching teams walking out the tunnel side by side, thus debunking your latest drivel. 

 

You keep posting shite if fuels your incontinent ego though :D

 

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Dunks
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Even clubs like Spurs and Man City apparently  include clauses in players' contracts providing for a cut in salaries in the event of relegation. Did we?

 

It has been rumoured that the clauses are in some players contracts, but I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

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davemclaren
43 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

Nope - it reflects the experience of my own eyes watching teams walking out the tunnel side by side, thus debunking your latest drivel. 

 

You keep posting shite if fuels your incontinent ego though :D

 

Thanks for that post. I can cancel my optician’s appointment now.  

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davemclaren
24 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

It has been rumoured that the clauses are in some players contracts, but I haven't seen anything to confirm that.

Ann said at the last AGM that we have relegation clauses. 

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Dunks
59 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Ann said at the last AGM that we have relegation clauses. 

 

Thanks Dave. Be interesting to see who departs because of it :thumbsup:

 

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Francis Albert
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Ann said at the last AGM that we have relegation clauses. 

Just for clarification was it clear she meant by "relegation clauses" the club had the right to cut wages or that the players were free to walk away? Or indeed whether these were standard or just in some players contracts?

(I don't think we ever got a transcript of AGM Q and As)

Edited by Francis Albert

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Bull's-eye
2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Ann said at the last AGM that we have relegation clauses. 

 

Just for clarification could you tell us what Wee Naisy had for his breakfast last Wednesday morning please.

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Adam_the_legend
3 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

 

I agree with your viewpoint on the FoH money being valuable, while the issue is trying to ensure that it's spent wisely - same with JA's benefactor money.     

 

Not sure if this is what Taffin is getting at, but there may be a culture of reliance on artificially bloated resources developing within the club.  Bonus money ... outside of usual football & hospitality operational income, if you like.     It's  come into focus now, following our disastrous/erratic football performance this season - otherwise we'd happily be glossing over it and developing our own sense of normality about the extra "unearned" 2 or 3 or 4 million coming in each year.         I wonder what the HMFC directors are now thinking about all this - surely they have to impose much more control over expenditure from now on,  to the point of  treating a substantial  chunk of FoH & JA  donations as  "emergency reserve only".    As others have pointed out, it should be possible to win the Championship without this extra money in normal circumstances -  although clearly we are not in normal circumstances right now (huge squad costs and legal bill). 

 

If the FoH directors on the HMFC board are not questioning Ann on pretty much every decision now, there's something wrong.


That seems to be one of the biggest issues with the governance structure at Hearts, all roads lead to AB and no one on the board has the balls to challenge her. 

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Beast Boy
3 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

 

I agree with your viewpoint on the FoH money being valuable, while the issue is trying to ensure that it's spent wisely - same with JA's benefactor money.     

 

Not sure if this is what Taffin is getting at, but there may be a culture of reliance on artificially bloated resources developing within the club.  Bonus money ... outside of usual football & hospitality operational income, if you like.     It's  come into focus now, following our disastrous/erratic football performance this season - otherwise we'd happily be glossing over it and developing our own sense of normality about the extra "unearned" 2 or 3 or 4 million coming in each year.         I wonder what the HMFC directors are now thinking about all this - surely they have to impose much more control over expenditure from now on,  to the point of  treating a substantial  chunk of FoH & JA  donations as  "emergency reserve only".    As others have pointed out, it should be possible to win the Championship without this extra money in normal circumstances -  although clearly we are not in normal circumstances right now (huge squad costs and legal bill). 

 

If the FoH directors on the HMFC board are not questioning Ann on pretty much every decision now, there's something wrong.


The money we take in mainly goes towards infrastructure, so that it can make the club money further down the line, be that next season or next decade. That’s the way to do it imo. When times allow you to make money, you spend it on something that allows you to generate more money for yourself. If we had been spending Anderson and FoH money directly on players, then by god would I agree with you. By spending it on things that allow you to generate more money yourself, then you mitigate against what you are suggesting Taffin may have meant. 
 

The bottom line though, is more money is better than less money. 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Just for clarification was it clear she meant by "relegation clauses" the club had the right to cut wages or that the players were free to walk away? Or indeed whether these were standard or just in some players contracts?

(I don't think we ever got a transcript of AGM Q and As)

Iirc she inferred they were standard. No other details were given. 

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davemclaren
37 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Just for clarification could you tell us what Wee Naisy had for his breakfast last Wednesday morning please.

She didn’t say. 

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mitch41
16 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

9000 season tickets is about £2.5m of income, league money for championship clubs is peanuts, we make about 25-30% max on club merchandise if even that, we make about £1 per pint poured if we are lucky. FoH money is £1.5m pa,. Our running costs are over £1m per month. Without another 3-4K season tickets and 2-3k walkups every home game the shortfall is huge. Again , where do we make money, or even break even? 

Semi final win, Scottish Cup Final win, Sell 4000 more season tickets, Celebrate the New main stand with a game against Liverpool, Man City, PSG or Falkirk. Or if we sell a certain player to a certain German team a game against them could be part of the deal. We have to think outside of the box if we want to earn more income.

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Francis Albert
35 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Iirc she inferred they were standard. No other details were given. 

Thanks. You mean she implied and you inferred? 

Sorry but I have my reputation as a nit picker to maintain. 

 

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davemclaren
Just now, Francis Albert said:

Thanks. You mean she implied and you inferred? 

Sorry but I have my reputation as a nit picker to maintain. 

 

Indeed...on both points. 😎

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mitch41
1 hour ago, Adam_the_legend said:


That seems to be one of the biggest issues with the governance structure at Hearts, all roads lead to AB and no one on the board has the balls to challenge her. 

No balls eh. So you think all these board members are yes men. And how many board meetings have you attended.

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Last Laff
On 01/08/2020 at 23:36, Special Officer Doofy said:


Not arguing about that. We are a football club. Football is our business. You need money to be successful in football however. We have the money, we don’t want to lose that. We have to use that money better however. You’re not stupid, I know that. That means you know what I’m saying is correct. You must see that we need to keep doing the good things right, and improve the things that aren’t doing well. We don’t just get in to a rage and ruin the good things, because we aren’t happy about the bad. We change the bad things.

 

 

 


All true 👍 hope you’re well my man.  Had a shitter of a weekend and no hearts make things worse. 

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ToqueJambo
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

Nope - it reflects the experience of my own eyes watching teams walking out the tunnel side by side, thus debunking your latest drivel. 

 

You keep posting shite if fuels your incontinent ego though :D

 

 

Thanks for confirming my eyes and/or memory are not failing.

Edited by ToqueJambo

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soonbe110
4 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

Nope - it reflects the experience of my own eyes watching teams walking out the tunnel side by side, thus debunking your latest drivel. 

 

You keep posting shite if fuels your incontinent ego though :D

 

Better than actually watching it I walked out of the tunnel as part of a stadium tour. My son and grandson and I walked out three abreast. Poster does talk some drivel at times. 

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soonbe110
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Just for clarification was it clear she meant by "relegation clauses" the club had the right to cut wages or that the players were free to walk away? Or indeed whether these were standard or just in some players contracts?

(I don't think we ever got a transcript of AGM Q and As)

To be fair employment contracts are supposed to be confidential between employer and employee so we will only ever have speculation as to what’s in them I hope. Not worth debating speculative information. 

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Francis Albert
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

To be fair employment contracts are supposed to be confidential between employer and employee so we will only ever have speculation as to what’s in them I hope. Not worth debating speculative information. 

What triggered my question was an article a few years back when it was revealed Chelsea, then at some albeit small  risk of relegation, did not have the protection of relegation clauses allowing players wages to be cut if relegated whereas most clubs including Spurs and Man City did. While individual contracts are confidential a club's general policy on the matter seems not to be. We know players often have release clauses if they are relegated and Ann has seemingly implied we had triggers for wage cuts in these circumstances. So worth discussing in the context of the financial impact of relegation for our club.

(Certainly more so than Bulls eye's concern about what "wee Naisy" had for breakfast last Wednesday!)

Edited by Francis Albert

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Beast Boy
1 hour ago, Last Laff said:


All true 👍 hope you’re well my man.  Had a shitter of a weekend and no hearts make things worse. 


Been a bit dull here too. Wee man caught a virus and we were shitting ourselves. Both kids came down with it. Had to get C19 tests, happily both negative. Wasn’t trying to have a go, been in a bit of a mood recently with everything.

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Last Laff
5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Been a bit dull here too. Wee man caught a virus and we were shitting ourselves. Both kids came down with it. Had to get C19 tests, happily both negative. Wasn’t trying to have a go, been in a bit of a mood recently with everything.


Thank goodness for that mate.  Delighted nothing more sinister.  It’s all good, never any hard feelings here :lol: take it easy, will get better soon 👍

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Kiwidoug
On 03/08/2020 at 01:29, Section Q said:

When Murray kept his parliamentary seat at the last election I was pleased because if he had lost I could see him as our next chairman. Politics aside, the man's a worm.

A worm? Really?

 

Are you a keyboard warrior?

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RENE

When we asked players to take a wage cut because of Covidd didn't we promise them if relegated we wouldn't ask for another cut?

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Geoff Kilpatrick
6 minutes ago, RENE said:

When we asked players to take a wage cut because of Covidd didn't we promise them if relegated we wouldn't ask for another cut?

I believe that was the story, yes. The 50% wage cut took effect but there would be no further reductions if demoted.

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RENE

Thanks thought so.   Wasn't 50% only Naismiyj.?

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Adam_the_legend
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I believe that was the story, yes. The 50% wage cut took effect but there would be no further reductions if demoted.


it didn’t end up being 50%. 10-30% I think 

 

edit: though I think that was furlough related

Edited by Adam_the_legend
Hit post to early

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DC_92
44 minutes ago, RENE said:

When we asked players to take a wage cut because of Covidd didn't we promise them if relegated we wouldn't ask for another cut?

 

Not necessarily, I think the deal was that any relegation related reductions would apply to their original wage.

 

E.g. if a player on £4k a week agrees to a 10% wage cut, their pay would reduce to £3.6k per week. If they also have a 25% reduction on relegation then that becomes 75%*£4k=£3k per week (rather than 75%*£3.6k=£2.7k).

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Kiwidoug

I know I've asked before.  When does this furlough run out?

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Geoff Kilpatrick
20 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I know I've asked before.  When does this furlough run out?

Furlough stopped the minute players returned to training.

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Section Q
13 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

A worm? Really?

 

Are you a keyboard warrior?

No mate....

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